Rebel VS Elite

Gregory Gordon · Post by **Gregory Gordon** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:21 pm

Mike,
It appears that we have not done our mission statement costings without
add-ons( excuse the mistakes I have had a long and great lunch with some
friends who want to ride, NOT FLY, motor bikes to the Birdsville Race
Meeting( sorry to you yanks "meet"[ you will learn proper English expression
in time with training!!!! ]). Birdsville is a little town in western
Queensland, 400miles from no where, except a race meeting once a year with
some 200 aircraft flying in for the race meeting.
Leaving that aside, Michael, my advice is to do a mission statement for the
aircraft that you want; then work with that to make your choice. The
decision is what YOU NEED!!!9 and can afford). Making the decision is the
hard part. GET ON WITH IT. !!!!!!!
Feel free to gve me a ring in Sydney(Aus) 02-98381010(Office)
96271767(Home)

Regards,
Greg. Gordon.

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Bob Patterson · Post by **Bob Patterson** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:21 pm

Hi Walter !

You could strengthen the leading edge AND improve your float
performance by adding the McKenzie STOL kit, which adds, in effect,
a leading edge doubler .... ;-)

.....bobp

-----------------------------------orig.---------------------------
At 07:21 AM 7/29/02 -0700, you wrote:

One of the things that allows a higher gross weight on the Elite is .032
leading edge wing skins. These can also be put on the Rebel to strengthen
the wings, but retain the lighter fabric flaperons. That is one option that
I would seriously consider if I was going to build a Rebel again and put it
on floats. That 1730 gross weight on amphibs really doesn't leave you a lot
of payload.

Not sure if this is possible, but it could save a lot of weight if you could
use the Rebel flaperon structure on the Elite, instead of the metal split
flaps. You might have better float performance, too.

I totally agree that empty weight is very important, and every little bit
helps. With my Rebel, I notice a difference in performance with just 10
gallons fuel which is only 60 pounds.

Walter
-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
legeorgen@cs.com
Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2002 7:41 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Rebel VS Elite

When you're in the business of defying gravity, every ounce counts and
weight is everything. If you can have a lighter plane with the same
performance, a smaller lighter engine and the same useful load then you are
better off with the Rebel,... IMHO. Your investment is less and your cost
per hour to operate are less. The Elite does has a larger rear cargo area
(3" in height) but it is limited to the same load. It would be better if you
wanted a rear set.

Grant from MAM told me last year, they sell two Rebels for every Elite.
Hmmmm? That's a statement in its self.

No hard feelings you Elite drivers. It's still a great airplane and I
would build or buy either plane that was the best deal at the time. The
quick built might push me over the edge. After building two kit planes in
the past five years, juggling work and family, the quick built sounds like a
winner if I decided to go a third round.

Bruce G 357R

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2716.2200" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN

class=159410214-29072002>One of

the things that allows a higher gross weight on the Elite is .032 leading edge
wing skins. These can also be put on the Rebel to strengthen the wings, but
retain the lighter fabric flaperons. That is one option that I would seriously
consider if I was going to build a Rebel again and put it on floats. That 1730
gross weight on amphibs really doesn't leave you a lot of
payload.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=159410214-29072002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=159410214-29072002>Not
sure if this is possible, but it could save a lot of weight if you could

use the

Rebel flaperon structure on the Elite, instead of the metal split flaps. You
might have better float performance, too.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=159410214-29072002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=159410214-29072002>I
totally agree that empty weight is very important, and every little bit helps.
With my Rebel, I notice a difference in performance with just 10 gallons fuel
which is only 60 pounds.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=159410214-29072002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=159410214-29072002>Walter</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
[mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]<B>On Behalf Of
</B>legeorgen@cs.com<BR><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, July 28, 2002 7:41
PM<BR><B>To:</B> murphy-rebel@dcsol.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: Rebel VS
Elite<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT size=2>When

you're

in the business of defying gravity, every ounce counts and weight is
everything. If you can have a lighter plane with the same performance, a
smaller lighter engine and the same useful load then you are better off with
the Rebel,... IMHO. Your investment is less and your cost per hour to

operate

are less. The Elite does has a larger rear cargo area (3" in height) but

it is

limited to the same load. It would be better if you wanted a rear set.

<BR><BR>Grant from MAM told me last year, they sell two Rebels for every
Elite. Hmmmm? That's a statement in its self. <BR><BR>No hard feelings you
Elite drivers. It's still a great airplane and I would build or buy either
plane that was the best deal at the time. The quick built might push me over
the edge. After building two kit planes in the past five years, juggling

work

and family, the quick built sounds like a winner if I decided to go a third
round. <BR><BR>Bruce G 357R <BR></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML>

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Brian Cross · Post by **Brian Cross** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:21 pm

Hi Bruce

What is the latest spring gear fix that you are referring to?

Thanks

Brian #328R

At 01:35 AM 7/30/02 Tuesday, you wrote:

on 30/7/02 11:30 AM, Mike Davis at mike.davis@dcsol.com wrote:
Hi Bruce, You've probably got it right... I haven't even looked at the pricing since last year. They probably did the same thing with the Rmbel that thmy did with the Moose... the Moose price went up about $6000, but probably close to half of that was things that used to be options now being included in the basic package. I guess anybody looking into it today would just have to do all the research again. Last year when I was getting close to ordering I priced all 3, Rebel, Elite, and Moose... before finally biting the bullet and ordering the Moose. Now I just have to save enough money to put an engine in it before I'm done building! Mike 195SR ----- Original Message ----- From:[/b] Legeorgen@cs.com To:[/b] murphy-rebel@dcsol.com Sent:[/b] Monday, July 29, 2002 5:11 PM Subject:[/b] Re: Rebel VS Elite

Mike,

The only Rebel upgrades that MAM doesn't include with the kit, that I'm aware of, are the tail cone doubler and the door sills that some of you are beefing up. MAM doesn't recognize these two items.

Included with all new Rebel kits is the firewall fix, float fix, the inside tail cone under the horiz. stab (part #?) fix, latest spring gear fix and the vertical tail attachment doubler. Have I left anything off?

Bruce G 357R

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Legeorgen · Post by **Legeorgen** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:21 pm

Bob,

Can you take a picture of this McKenzie stol kit and put it on the archives?

Bruce G 357R

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Legeorgen · Post by **Legeorgen** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:21 pm

Hi Brian,

Latest spring gear fix is a 2" piece of angle aluminum about 6" long and riveted over the carry through tubes. There is a picture and details of the service bulletin on the MAM web site, in the rebel section.

Bruce G 357R

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klehman · Post by **klehman** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:21 pm

I'm not sure that's a good assumption. The .032 leading edge cuff STOL
kit does not rivet to any of the spars, it just rivets onto the existing
.020 leading edge. Stiffening things sometimes leads to cracks in
adjacent parts, not necessarilly a stronger or more durable wing. I have
not heard of any problems with the kit so please don't think I'm being
critical of it. I just don't think I'd assume that it makes the wing
stronger or allows for a weight increase.
Ken

Patterson wrote:

Hi Walter !

You could strengthen the leading edge AND improve your float
performance by adding the McKenzie STOL kit, which adds, in effect,
a leading edge doubler .... ;-)

.....bobp

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Walter Klatt · Post by **Walter Klatt** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:21 pm

I wouldn't mind finding out more about the McKenzie STOL kit, but at this
time, have no plans to install one. Does anyone know how much weight it adds
to the empty weight?

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Bob Patterson
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 6:40 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Rebel VS Elite

Hi Walter !

You could strengthen the leading edge AND improve your float
performance by adding the McKenzie STOL kit, which adds, in effect,
a leading edge doubler .... ;-)

.....bobp

-----------------------------------orig.---------------------------
At 07:21 AM 7/29/02 -0700, you wrote:

One of the things that allows a higher gross weight on the Elite is .032
leading edge wing skins. These can also be put on the Rebel to strengthen
the wings, but retain the lighter fabric flaperons. That is one option that
I would seriously consider if I was going to build a Rebel again and put it
on floats. That 1730 gross weight on amphibs really doesn't leave you a lot
of payload.

Not sure if this is possible, but it could save a lot of weight if you

could

use the Rebel flaperon structure on the Elite, instead of the metal split
flaps. You might have better float performance, too.

I totally agree that empty weight is very important, and every little bit
helps. With my Rebel, I notice a difference in performance with just 10
gallons fuel which is only 60 pounds.

Walter
-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
legeorgen@cs.com
Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2002 7:41 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Rebel VS Elite

When you're in the business of defying gravity, every ounce counts and
weight is everything. If you can have a lighter plane with the same
performance, a smaller lighter engine and the same useful load then you are
better off with the Rebel,... IMHO. Your investment is less and your cost
per hour to operate are less. The Elite does has a larger rear cargo area
(3" in height) but it is limited to the same load. It would be better if

you

wanted a rear set.

Grant from MAM told me last year, they sell two Rebels for every Elite.
Hmmmm? That's a statement in its self.

No hard feelings you Elite drivers. It's still a great airplane and I
would build or buy either plane that was the best deal at the time. The
quick built might push me over the edge. After building two kit planes in
the past five years, juggling work and family, the quick built sounds like

a

winner if I decided to go a third round.

Bruce G 357R

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2716.2200" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN

class=159410214-29072002>One of

the things that allows a higher gross weight on the Elite is .032 leading

edge

wing skins. These can also be put on the Rebel to strengthen the wings, but
retain the lighter fabric flaperons. That is one option that I would

seriously

consider if I was going to build a Rebel again and put it on floats. That

1730

gross weight on amphibs really doesn't leave you a lot of
payload.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=159410214-29072002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN

class=159410214-29072002>Not

sure if this is possible, but it could save a lot of weight if you could

use the

Rebel flaperon structure on the Elite, instead of the metal split flaps.

You

might have better float performance, too.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=159410214-29072002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=159410214-29072002>I
totally agree that empty weight is very important, and every little bit

helps.

With my Rebel, I notice a difference in performance with just 10 gallons

fuel

which is only 60 pounds.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=159410214-29072002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=159410214-29072002>Walter</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
[mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]<B>On Behalf Of
</B>legeorgen@cs.com<BR><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, July 28, 2002 7:41
PM<BR><B>To:</B> murphy-rebel@dcsol.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: Rebel VS
Elite<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT size=2>When

you're

in the business of defying gravity, every ounce counts and weight is
everything. If you can have a lighter plane with the same performance, a
smaller lighter engine and the same useful load then you are better off

with

the Rebel,... IMHO. Your investment is less and your cost per hour to

operate

are less. The Elite does has a larger rear cargo area (3" in height) but

it is

limited to the same load. It would be better if you wanted a rear set.

<BR><BR>Grant from MAM told me last year, they sell two Rebels for every
Elite. Hmmmm? That's a statement in its self. <BR><BR>No hard feelings

you

Elite drivers. It's still a great airplane and I would build or buy

either

plane that was the best deal at the time. The quick built might push me

over

the edge. After building two kit planes in the past five years, juggling

work

and family, the quick built sounds like a winner if I decided to go a

third

round. <BR><BR>Bruce G 357R <BR></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML>

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klehman · Post by **klehman** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:21 pm

12 lbs was what I've heard.
Ken

Walter Klatt wrote:

I wouldn't mind finding out more about the McKenzie STOL kit, but at this
time, have no plans to install one. Does anyone know how much weight it adds
to the empty weight?

Walter

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Bob Patterson · Post by **Bob Patterson** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:21 pm

Sorry Ken - I had my tongue firmly in my cheek when I made
that suggestion ....

Guess I need the right "emoticon" ... :-^) ???

The McKenzie STOL kit does pick up the ribs, as well as the
skin, and probably does contribute some strength, but you're absolutely
right - nobody should automatically assume it will allow more gross !

....bobp

----- Original Message ---------------------------------------------------
From: "klehman" <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 1:16 AM
Subject: Re: Rebel VS Elite

I'm not sure that's a good assumption. The .032 leading edge cuff STOL
kit does not rivet to any of the spars, it just rivets onto the existing
.020 leading edge. Stiffening things sometimes leads to cracks in
adjacent parts, not necessarilly a stronger or more durable wing. I have
not heard of any problems with the kit so please don't think I'm being
critical of it. I just don't think I'd assume that it makes the wing
stronger or allows for a weight increase.
Ken

Patterson wrote:

Hi Walter !

You could strengthen the leading edge AND improve your float
performance by adding the McKenzie STOL kit, which adds, in effect,
a leading edge doubler .... ;-)

.....bobp

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Wayne G. O'Shea · Post by **Wayne G. O'Shea** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:21 pm

Yes I still have the system! If anyone is interested in it I can take some
digital pics of it and send to you direct!

Wayne

Electric flaps are not a popular addition to the Rebel but a few guys
have done it. Wayne may still have an electric system for sale that he
removed from someones Rebel last year.

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Ralph Baker · Post by **Ralph Baker** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:49 pm

We chose the Elite because of all aluminum (no fabric) construction,
ability to utilize the IO or O-360, and somewhat simpler cabin
construction. And, would do so again. Having said that I would
acknowlege that most of the Elite extra gross is taken up with the extra
dry weight. Either is a good choice and unless the minor differences
are worth the cost delta to you I would go for the Rebel. One final
point, nose wheel gear is only available on the Elite if that is a
priority.
Ralph Baker / Sue Scouten
Elite 624E (reserved)

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Mike Davis · Post by **Mike Davis** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:59 am

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rebel" <rebel@dcsol.com>
To: <mike.davis@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 7:34 PM
Subject: Re: Rebel vs Elite

You could buy a flying Rebel to find out if it suits you. Its not going to
depreciate, and
then you would know exactly how you would want to build your own, which
mods and
what engine, ect. If you had a flying Rebel and starting building one you
would be able
to fly and build at the same time, and save yourself a lot of time and
money by not
having to rebuild parts due to mistakes. Interest rates are low and the
banks are willing
to lend money for anything. It might not be that expensive in the end.

Allen H.

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