Spring Gear fix ???

[Mike Davis]

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Hi Alister
Regarding the spring gear ... Murphy has been quiet about any changes in
the
area of the sping gear. I talked to Grant about this and it didn't seem to
me
that they were planning a mod or retrofit kit to stengthen the spring gear.
I
would like to know what you did to the gear to strengthen it.
Thanks Jim
JimsRebel@aol.com

[Mike Davis]

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From: "Alister Yeoman" <yeoman@voyager.co.nz>
To: "Murphy Rebel" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Spring Gear fix ???
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 15:53:36 +1300
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Hi Jim,

I am very disappointed that Murphy have not addressed this, they told me
they would.

The issue I believe is that the spacer system that holds the outer straddle
bolts on the spring gear is not up to it.

It is poorly designed, firstly, the spacer is the wrong diameter for the
bolt, secondly, because the outer gear bolts are so close to the edge of
the carrythrough the spacer has to be shaped to fit the top corner of the
carrythrough, thirdly, the bottom of the spacer is sitting against the
bottom plates not on the carrythough.

The sequence of events appears to be, as the spring gear is settling in,
the spacer, because it is the wrong diameter ( to big), can move a little
sideways. Then because the spacer is shaped, a little slack develops ( it
only needs to be a few thou ).
Once there is a little room to move things start happening quite quickly,
the front bolt is the one that causes the problem because of the braking
loads, the top of the carrythrough crushes downwards and then starts to
punch the spacer into the bottom plates pushing them away from the
carrythrough and pulling the rivets out.

This is not just a story, it happened to me and I know for a fact there are
others out there with damage in this area.

The perfect fix of course is to mill solid aluminum block inserts for the
carrythrough to capture the outer gear bolts and the three AN3 bolts in
that area, this actually is what I have done and it works really well. The
down side to that is that the side panels have to come of to do this, so it
is not really a good retro fix option. Murphy, they say, have been working
on another fix option, I thought they would have had it sorted by now.

The other thing to do is to retighten the gear bolts very frequently in the
early stages of the taxiing and flying program. The rear outer gear bolt
inspection panel as per the Manual should not be riveted on but should be
made to be easily removed so that tightening the rear bolt is no big drama.
Also I think the lower strut and gear fairings should be left off until say
10hrs have been flown.

I have done these mods, also put .032 panels on the lower rolled corner and
under the doors sills, beefed up the FUS 35 and put two rows of rivets on
each flange on it.

I also moved to 3/8 outer bolts and to 7/16 inner gear bolts, this was my
choice,I am not saying it is necessary

I have also interpiched the doorpost rivets ( doubled up ) and because of
the type of work I am doing with the plane I have fitted 850-6 tyres.

Since the repairs I have done about 25 hrs into some very rough places and
things are holding up really well, I am anticipating no more problems. What
a neat aircraft!!!

I hope this helps.

Cheers

Alister



----------

From: JimsRebel@aol.com
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Spring Gear fix ???
Date: Tuesday, January 19, 1999 12:55 PM

Hi Alister
Regarding the spring gear ... Murphy has been quiet about any changes in

the

area of the sping gear. I talked to Grant about this and it didn't seem

to me

that they were planning a mod or retrofit kit to stengthen the spring

gear. I

would like to know what you did to the gear to strengthen it.
Thanks Jim
JimsRebel@aol.com

[Mike Davis]

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Me too.

Jim Remington

JimsRebel@aol.com wrote:

Hi Alister
Regarding the spring gear ... Murphy has been quiet about any changes in

the

area of the sping gear. I talked to Grant about this and it didn't seem to

me

that they were planning a mod or retrofit kit to stengthen the spring

gear. I

would like to know what you did to the gear to strengthen it.
Thanks Jim
JimsRebel@aol.com

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[Mike Davis]

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Alister this sounds like some great stuff! ...you wouldn't have pictures
would
you? ...Wray

Alister Yeoman wrote:

Hi Jim,

I am very disappointed that Murphy have not addressed this, they told me
they would.

The issue I believe is that the spacer system that holds the outer

straddle

bolts on the spring gear is not up to it.

It is poorly designed, firstly, the spacer is the wrong diameter for the
bolt, secondly, because the outer gear bolts are so close to the edge of
the carrythrough the spacer has to be shaped to fit the top corner of the
carrythrough, thirdly, the bottom of the spacer is sitting against the
bottom plates not on the carrythough.

The sequence of events appears to be, as the spring gear is settling in,
the spacer, because it is the wrong diameter ( to big), can move a little
sideways. Then because the spacer is shaped, a little slack develops ( it
only needs to be a few thou ).
Once there is a little room to move things start happening quite quickly,
the front bolt is the one that causes the problem because of the braking
loads, the top of the carrythrough crushes downwards and then starts to
punch the spacer into the bottom plates pushing them away from the
carrythrough and pulling the rivets out.

This is not just a story, it happened to me and I know for a fact there

are

others out there with damage in this area.

The perfect fix of course is to mill solid aluminum block inserts for the
carrythrough to capture the outer gear bolts and the three AN3 bolts in
that area, this actually is what I have done and it works really well. The
down side to that is that the side panels have to come of to do this, so

it

is not really a good retro fix option. Murphy, they say, have been working
on another fix option, I thought they would have had it sorted by now.

The other thing to do is to retighten the gear bolts very frequently in

the

early stages of the taxiing and flying program. The rear outer gear bolt
inspection panel as per the Manual should not be riveted on but should be
made to be easily removed so that tightening the rear bolt is no big

drama.

Also I think the lower strut and gear fairings should be left off until

say

10hrs have been flown.

I have done these mods, also put .032 panels on the lower rolled corner

and

under the doors sills, beefed up the FUS 35 and put two rows of rivets on
each flange on it.

I also moved to 3/8 outer bolts and to 7/16 inner gear bolts, this was my
choice,I am not saying it is necessary

I have also interpiched the doorpost rivets ( doubled up ) and because of
the type of work I am doing with the plane I have fitted 850-6 tyres.

Since the repairs I have done about 25 hrs into some very rough places and
things are holding up really well, I am anticipating no more problems.

What

a neat aircraft!!!

I hope this helps.

Cheers

Alister



-

Wray Thompson ...Rebel 306 ...home page http://www.globalserve.net/~cobbg/

[Mike Davis]

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From: "Alister Yeoman" <yeoman@voyager.co.nz>
To: "Murphy Rebel" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Spring Gear fix ???
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:08:21 +1300
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Hi Wray,

No, sorry, I'm a bit like that. I dont think I could find a photo of
anything of the entire construction process. The only photos I have of the
damaged area concerned have been sent to Murphy to assist them in their
diagnosis.

I have had just another thought since posting the last message, the problem
with the gear is really two fold. Firstly there is the attachment problem
which I have already described, secondly there was with my aircraft what I
call a load dissipation problem.

This I have already described on this forum at an earlier date, it involves
flexing (panting) of the skins just in front of the door post and movement
( smoking) of the rivets on the door post itself.

This has been solved by the increase in the thickness of the skins in this
area ( lower rolled corner, below door sill etc.) and interpitching the
door post rivets. I should add I also placed a .020 channel inside where
the lower front rolled corner meets the Fus 11 ( I dont have my manual
here, I think thats number for the skin in font of the door post isn't it?)
And placed two rows of rivets there.

I must say, Murphy have been very helpful with this, some of the things I
have done are ideas from them and some are my own additions. They also
asked not to go spreading around my fix because of the fact that I did have
some damage to this area so my fix was likely to be more robust than is
probably required ( also I think they think I treat my aircraft a bit
rough!!), also they would like to be able to come up with a retro fix where
people can modify this area without too much drama.

I reckoned that was fair enough, but when I quietly suggest to people to
talk to them (Murphy) about potential problems in this area, and they
appear to deny there is an issue, I dont think that is fair to builders out
there. Hence the reason I am 'coming out of the closet'. I would hate to be
a builder and not to be fed this sort of info.

If this puts a little pressure on Murphy to ' come clean' then fair enough.

Cheers

Alister

----------

From: Wray Thompson <wrayt@ibm.net>
To: (Murphy Rebel) <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Spring Gear fix ???
Date: Wednesday, January 20, 1999 2:55 AM

Alister this sounds like some great stuff! ...you wouldn't have pictures

would

you? ...Wray

Alister Yeoman wrote:

Hi Jim,

I am very disappointed that Murphy have not addressed this, they told

me

they would.

The issue I believe is that the spacer system that holds the outer

straddle

bolts on the spring gear is not up to it.

It is poorly designed, firstly, the spacer is the wrong diameter for

the

bolt, secondly, because the outer gear bolts are so close to the edge

of

the carrythrough the spacer has to be shaped to fit the top corner of

the

carrythrough, thirdly, the bottom of the spacer is sitting against the
bottom plates not on the carrythough.

The sequence of events appears to be, as the spring gear is settling

in,

the spacer, because it is the wrong diameter ( to big), can move a

little

sideways. Then because the spacer is shaped, a little slack develops (

it

only needs to be a few thou ).
Once there is a little room to move things start happening quite

quickly,

the front bolt is the one that causes the problem because of the

braking

loads, the top of the carrythrough crushes downwards and then starts to
punch the spacer into the bottom plates pushing them away from the
carrythrough and pulling the rivets out.

This is not just a story, it happened to me and I know for a fact there

are

others out there with damage in this area.

The perfect fix of course is to mill solid aluminum block inserts for

the

carrythrough to capture the outer gear bolts and the three AN3 bolts in
that area, this actually is what I have done and it works really well.

The

down side to that is that the side panels have to come of to do this,

so it

is not really a good retro fix option. Murphy, they say, have been

working

on another fix option, I thought they would have had it sorted by now.

The other thing to do is to retighten the gear bolts very frequently in

the

early stages of the taxiing and flying program. The rear outer gear

bolt

inspection panel as per the Manual should not be riveted on but should

be

made to be easily removed so that tightening the rear bolt is no big

drama.

Also I think the lower strut and gear fairings should be left off until

say

10hrs have been flown.

I have done these mods, also put .032 panels on the lower rolled corner

and

under the doors sills, beefed up the FUS 35 and put two rows of rivets

on

each flange on it.

I also moved to 3/8 outer bolts and to 7/16 inner gear bolts, this was

my

choice,I am not saying it is necessary

I have also interpiched the doorpost rivets ( doubled up ) and because

of

the type of work I am doing with the plane I have fitted 850-6 tyres.

Since the repairs I have done about 25 hrs into some very rough places

and

things are holding up really well, I am anticipating no more problems.

What

a neat aircraft!!!

I hope this helps.

Cheers

Alister



-

Wray Thompson ...Rebel 306 ...home page

http://www.globalserve.net/~cobbg/



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[Mike Davis]

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From: "Alister Yeoman" <yeoman@voyager.co.nz>
To: "Murphy Rebel" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Spring Gear fix ???
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Opps, Gosh,Have I just spoken out of turn with my last message!!!

Alister

PS
Lonnie, the tappered insert fix is SO strong, you have to run the AN3 bolts
right through the whole carrythough sysem ( I actually increased the
diameter of the two inside bolts to AN4) they tie everything together
really well.

----------

From: Lonnie Benson <lonben@erols.com>
To: Murphy Rebel <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Spring Gear fix ???
Date: Wednesday, January 20, 1999 8:44 AM

Alister:

I talked to MAM Technical Dept. last week and they said that they are
looking at a fix that could be easily retrofitted to completed aircraft.
It's going to take them awhile to complete all of the engineering

analysis

to ensure that the proposed fix does"t create new problems. I believe

they

are looking at a piece that will attach to the door post, go over the top

of

the forward carrythrough and down the front.

Since my lower front corner wraps are not attached I was lookng at
reinforcing the front carrythrough by placing a tapered plug inside, but

I

can wait and see what MAM comes up with.

-----Original Message-----
From: Alister Yeoman <yeoman@voyager.co.nz>
To: Murphy Rebel <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Monday, January 18, 1999 9:55 PM
Subject: Re: Spring Gear fix ???

Hi Jim,

I am very disappointed that Murphy have not addressed this, they told me
they would.

The issue I believe is that the spacer system that holds the outer

straddle

bolts on the spring gear is not up to it.

It is poorly designed, firstly, the spacer is the wrong diameter for the
bolt, secondly, because the outer gear bolts are so close to the edge of
the carrythrough the spacer has to be shaped to fit the top corner of

the

carrythrough, thirdly, the bottom of the spacer is sitting against the
bottom plates not on the carrythough.

The sequence of events appears to be, as the spring gear is settling in,
the spacer, because it is the wrong diameter ( to big), can move a

little

sideways. Then because the spacer is shaped, a little slack develops (

it

only needs to be a few thou ).
Once there is a little room to move things start happening quite

quickly,

the front bolt is the one that causes the problem because of the braking
loads, the top of the carrythrough crushes downwards and then starts to
punch the spacer into the bottom plates pushing them away from the
carrythrough and pulling the rivets out.

This is not just a story, it happened to me and I know for a fact there

are

others out there with damage in this area.

The perfect fix of course is to mill solid aluminum block inserts for

the

carrythrough to capture the outer gear bolts and the three AN3 bolts in
that area, this actually is what I have done and it works really well.

The

down side to that is that the side panels have to come of to do this, so

it

is not really a good retro fix option. Murphy, they say, have been

working

on another fix option, I thought they would have had it sorted by now.

The other thing to do is to retighten the gear bolts very frequently in

the

early stages of the taxiing and flying program. The rear outer gear bolt
inspection panel as per the Manual should not be riveted on but should

be

made to be easily removed so that tightening the rear bolt is no big

drama.

Also I think the lower strut and gear fairings should be left off until

say

10hrs have been flown.

I have done these mods, also put .032 panels on the lower rolled corner

and

under the doors sills, beefed up the FUS 35 and put two rows of rivets

on

each flange on it.

I also moved to 3/8 outer bolts and to 7/16 inner gear bolts, this was

my

choice,I am not saying it is necessary

I have also interpiched the doorpost rivets ( doubled up ) and because

of

the type of work I am doing with the plane I have fitted 850-6 tyres.

Since the repairs I have done about 25 hrs into some very rough places

and

things are holding up really well, I am anticipating no more problems.

What

a neat aircraft!!!

I hope this helps.

Cheers

Alister



----------

From: JimsRebel@aol.com
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Spring Gear fix ???
Date: Tuesday, January 19, 1999 12:55 PM

Hi Alister
Regarding the spring gear ... Murphy has been quiet about any changes

in

the

area of the sping gear. I talked to Grant about this and it didn't

seem

to me

that they were planning a mod or retrofit kit to stengthen the spring

gear. I

would like to know what you did to the gear to strengthen it.
Thanks Jim
JimsRebel@aol.com

[Mike Davis]

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Alister: Thanks for the very complete answer. I wonder if you would be
willing to fax me a drawing of the milled solid aluminum block inserts you
designed. I have not started on my fuselage yet so I can make any changes
with
ease. However I have already purchased the spring gear. I was very
disappointed with the quality of those parts. Don't know why they didn't
gun
drill the leg for an internal break line before bending. Hanging the
hydraulic
lines on the outside seems a bit behind the times. Since by two gear legs I
got don't seem to match when clamped to a table top, I was wondering what
system is used to adjust the individual legs to get the aircraft to sit
level
and to get the camber on each tire to be correct?

Alister Yeoman wrote:

Hi Jim,

I am very disappointed that Murphy have not addressed this, they told me
they would.

The issue I believe is that the spacer system that holds the outer

straddle

bolts on the spring gear is not up to it.

It is poorly designed, firstly, the spacer is the wrong diameter for the
bolt, secondly, because the outer gear bolts are so close to the edge of
the carrythrough the spacer has to be shaped to fit the top corner of the
carrythrough, thirdly, the bottom of the spacer is sitting against the
bottom plates not on the carrythough.

The sequence of events appears to be, as the spring gear is settling in,
the spacer, because it is the wrong diameter ( to big), can move a little
sideways. Then because the spacer is shaped, a little slack develops ( it
only needs to be a few thou ).
Once there is a little room to move things start happening quite quickly,
the front bolt is the one that causes the problem because of the braking
loads, the top of the carrythrough crushes downwards and then starts to
punch the spacer into the bottom plates pushing them away from the
carrythrough and pulling the rivets out.

This is not just a story, it happened to me and I know for a fact there

are

others out there with damage in this area.

The perfect fix of course is to mill solid aluminum block inserts for the
carrythrough to capture the outer gear bolts and the three AN3 bolts in
that area, this actually is what I have done and it works really well. The
down side to that is that the side panels have to come of to do this, so

it

is not really a good retro fix option. Murphy, they say, have been working
on another fix option, I thought they would have had it sorted by now.

The other thing to do is to retighten the gear bolts very frequently in

the

early stages of the taxiing and flying program. The rear outer gear bolt
inspection panel as per the Manual should not be riveted on but should be
made to be easily removed so that tightening the rear bolt is no big

drama.

Also I think the lower strut and gear fairings should be left off until

say

10hrs have been flown.

I have done these mods, also put .032 panels on the lower rolled corner

and

under the doors sills, beefed up the FUS 35 and put two rows of rivets on
each flange on it.

I also moved to 3/8 outer bolts and to 7/16 inner gear bolts, this was my
choice,I am not saying it is necessary

I have also interpiched the doorpost rivets ( doubled up ) and because of
the type of work I am doing with the plane I have fitted 850-6 tyres.

Since the repairs I have done about 25 hrs into some very rough places and
things are holding up really well, I am anticipating no more problems.

What

a neat aircraft!!!

I hope this helps.

Cheers

Alister



----------

From: JimsRebel@aol.com
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Spring Gear fix ???
Date: Tuesday, January 19, 1999 12:55 PM

Hi Alister
Regarding the spring gear ... Murphy has been quiet about any changes

in

the

area of the sping gear. I talked to Grant about this and it didn't seem

to me

that they were planning a mod or retrofit kit to stengthen the spring

gear. I

would like to know what you did to the gear to strengthen it.
Thanks Jim
JimsRebel@aol.com

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Lonnie: It sounds like it's time for me to make another visit to see your
Rebel
before it's all closed in. Any problem with that?

Jim Remington

Lonnie Benson wrote:

Alister:

I talked to MAM Technical Dept. last week and they said that they are
looking at a fix that could be easily retrofitted to completed aircraft.
It's going to take them awhile to complete all of the engineering analysis
to ensure that the proposed fix does"t create new problems. I believe

they

are looking at a piece that will attach to the door post, go over the top

of

the forward carrythrough and down the front.

Since my lower front corner wraps are not attached I was lookng at
reinforcing the front carrythrough by placing a tapered plug inside, but

I

can wait and see what MAM comes up with.

-----Original Message-----
From: Alister Yeoman <yeoman@voyager.co.nz>
To: Murphy Rebel <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Monday, January 18, 1999 9:55 PM
Subject: Re: Spring Gear fix ???

Hi Jim,

I am very disappointed that Murphy have not addressed this, they told me
they would.

The issue I believe is that the spacer system that holds the outer

straddle

bolts on the spring gear is not up to it.

It is poorly designed, firstly, the spacer is the wrong diameter for the
bolt, secondly, because the outer gear bolts are so close to the edge of
the carrythrough the spacer has to be shaped to fit the top corner of the
carrythrough, thirdly, the bottom of the spacer is sitting against the
bottom plates not on the carrythough.

The sequence of events appears to be, as the spring gear is settling in,
the spacer, because it is the wrong diameter ( to big), can move a little
sideways. Then because the spacer is shaped, a little slack develops ( it
only needs to be a few thou ).
Once there is a little room to move things start happening quite quickly,
the front bolt is the one that causes the problem because of the braking
loads, the top of the carrythrough crushes downwards and then starts to
punch the spacer into the bottom plates pushing them away from the
carrythrough and pulling the rivets out.

This is not just a story, it happened to me and I know for a fact there

are

others out there with damage in this area.

The perfect fix of course is to mill solid aluminum block inserts for the
carrythrough to capture the outer gear bolts and the three AN3 bolts in
that area, this actually is what I have done and it works really well.

The

down side to that is that the side panels have to come of to do this, so

it

is not really a good retro fix option. Murphy, they say, have been

working

on another fix option, I thought they would have had it sorted by now.

The other thing to do is to retighten the gear bolts very frequently in

the

early stages of the taxiing and flying program. The rear outer gear bolt
inspection panel as per the Manual should not be riveted on but should be
made to be easily removed so that tightening the rear bolt is no big

drama.

Also I think the lower strut and gear fairings should be left off until

say

10hrs have been flown.

I have done these mods, also put .032 panels on the lower rolled corner

and

under the doors sills, beefed up the FUS 35 and put two rows of rivets

on

each flange on it.

I also moved to 3/8 outer bolts and to 7/16 inner gear bolts, this was

my

choice,I am not saying it is necessary

I have also interpiched the doorpost rivets ( doubled up ) and because of
the type of work I am doing with the plane I have fitted 850-6 tyres.

Since the repairs I have done about 25 hrs into some very rough places

and

things are holding up really well, I am anticipating no more problems.

What

a neat aircraft!!!

I hope this helps.

Cheers

Alister



----------

From: JimsRebel@aol.com
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Spring Gear fix ???
Date: Tuesday, January 19, 1999 12:55 PM

Hi Alister
Regarding the spring gear ... Murphy has been quiet about any changes

in

the

area of the sping gear. I talked to Grant about this and it didn't seem

to me

that they were planning a mod or retrofit kit to stengthen the spring

gear. I

would like to know what you did to the gear to strengthen it.
Thanks Jim
JimsRebel@aol.com

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[Mike Davis]

Received: from dialup.voyager.co.nz (ts1p16.net.ashburton.voyager.co.nz
[203.21.25.181]) by host02.net.voyager.co.nz (8.8.8/8.6.12) with ESMTP id
KAA04914 for <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 10:10:51 +1300
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Message-Id: <199901202110.KAA04914@host02.net.voyager.co.nz>
From: "Alister Yeoman" <yeoman@voyager.co.nz>
To: "Murphy Rebel" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Spring Gear fix ???
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 10:11:12 +1300
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Jim,

I can do that, I'll get on to it over the next few days.

I do have some concerns that this is of course not the official Murphy fix,
I would suggest you wait a little to see what Murphy comes up with, it does
sound as though they are onto it. I also found the cost of the solid
aluminum block and milling quite excessive, they may have a cheaper option.

My gear legs were nice and straight, aluminum wedges were supplied in the
kit to alter toe in/out etc. although I found I did not require them. I
think you will find the the legs quite rigid, they dont absorb the loads as
much as I would like, those loads are then transferred onto the fuse. That
is why with all the off field work I do I have elected for the bigger
tyres. ( 850-6).

The camber of course changes dramatically as you load the aircraft, I think
yours would tend to even out ( I think!!), Lightly loaded there is a lot of
positive camber, at all up weight it is noticably negative. The book says
to set the wheels at slight toe out. Seems to work.

Yes, the brake lines can be quite messy can't they? I ended up using all
aviation spec materials with the braided flexible line down the rear of the
leg clipped on with the same clips as used on a C180. Very visible but at
least it looks, and is functional!

I'll fax that through in the next few days.

Cheers

Alister

----------

From: James A. Remington <jaremington@earthlink.net>
To: (Murphy Rebel) <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Spring Gear fix ???
Date: Thursday, January 21, 1999 6:32 AM

Alister: Thanks for the very complete answer. I wonder if you would be
willing to fax me a drawing of the milled solid aluminum block inserts

you

designed. I have not started on my fuselage yet so I can make any

changes with

ease. However I have already purchased the spring gear. I was very
disappointed with the quality of those parts. Don't know why they didn't

gun

drill the leg for an internal break line before bending. Hanging the

hydraulic

lines on the outside seems a bit behind the times. Since by two gear

legs I

got don't seem to match when clamped to a table top, I was wondering what
system is used to adjust the individual legs to get the aircraft to sit

level

and to get the camber on each tire to be correct?

Alister Yeoman wrote:

Hi Jim,

I am very disappointed that Murphy have not addressed this, they told

me

they would.

The issue I believe is that the spacer system that holds the outer

straddle

bolts on the spring gear is not up to it.

It is poorly designed, firstly, the spacer is the wrong diameter for

the

bolt, secondly, because the outer gear bolts are so close to the edge

of

the carrythrough the spacer has to be shaped to fit the top corner of

the

carrythrough, thirdly, the bottom of the spacer is sitting against the
bottom plates not on the carrythough.

The sequence of events appears to be, as the spring gear is settling

in,

the spacer, because it is the wrong diameter ( to big), can move a

little

sideways. Then because the spacer is shaped, a little slack develops (

it

only needs to be a few thou ).
Once there is a little room to move things start happening quite

quickly,

the front bolt is the one that causes the problem because of the

braking

loads, the top of the carrythrough crushes downwards and then starts to
punch the spacer into the bottom plates pushing them away from the
carrythrough and pulling the rivets out.

This is not just a story, it happened to me and I know for a fact there

are

others out there with damage in this area.

The perfect fix of course is to mill solid aluminum block inserts for

the

carrythrough to capture the outer gear bolts and the three AN3 bolts in
that area, this actually is what I have done and it works really well.

The

down side to that is that the side panels have to come of to do this,

so it

is not really a good retro fix option. Murphy, they say, have been

working

on another fix option, I thought they would have had it sorted by now.

The other thing to do is to retighten the gear bolts very frequently in

the

early stages of the taxiing and flying program. The rear outer gear

bolt

inspection panel as per the Manual should not be riveted on but should

be

made to be easily removed so that tightening the rear bolt is no big

drama.

Also I think the lower strut and gear fairings should be left off until

say

10hrs have been flown.

I have done these mods, also put .032 panels on the lower rolled corner

and

under the doors sills, beefed up the FUS 35 and put two rows of rivets

on

each flange on it.

I also moved to 3/8 outer bolts and to 7/16 inner gear bolts, this was

my

choice,I am not saying it is necessary

I have also interpiched the doorpost rivets ( doubled up ) and because

of

the type of work I am doing with the plane I have fitted 850-6 tyres.

Since the repairs I have done about 25 hrs into some very rough places

and

things are holding up really well, I am anticipating no more problems.

What

a neat aircraft!!!

I hope this helps.

Cheers

Alister



----------

From: JimsRebel@aol.com
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Spring Gear fix ???
Date: Tuesday, January 19, 1999 12:55 PM

Hi Alister
Regarding the spring gear ... Murphy has been quiet about any

changes in

the

area of the sping gear. I talked to Grant about this and it didn't

seem

to me

that they were planning a mod or retrofit kit to stengthen the spring

gear. I

would like to know what you did to the gear to strengthen it.
Thanks Jim
JimsRebel@aol.com

.





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Received: from RebelAir@aol.com
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for <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 20:50:22 +1900 (EST)
From: RebelAir@aol.com
Message-ID: <b18fdcb1.36a687de@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 20:50:22 EST
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Subject: Re: Spring Gear fix ???
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows 95 sub 19

Hello Folks

I also talked to MAM last week about the spring gear fix. First of all,
they
categorically state that it is unnecessary for vast majority of people. It
is
only necessary if you are flying off of tundra etc. (their words).

However, the fix they are talking about means removing the lower corner
wraps
in order to allow access to the area in question. I could not consider this
when you think about all of the work it took to put in the existing overlap
plates in the top and bottom of the carrythroughs. I have about 80 3/16"
rivets per side. Holes are going to get damaged upon removal etc. etc.
They
need to think of something better than this before I consider slicing this
thing apart.

Brian #328R
.





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Received: from dialup.voyager.co.nz (ts1p12.net.ashburton.voyager.co.nz
[203.21.25.176]) by host02.net.voyager.co.nz (8.8.8/8.6.12) with ESMTP id
SAA08251 for <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 18:14:04 +1300
(NZDT)
Message-Id: <199901210514.SAA08251@host02.net.voyager.co.nz>
From: "Alister Yeoman" <yeoman@voyager.co.nz>
To: "Murphy Rebel" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Spring Gear fix ???
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 18:08:18 +1300
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Brian,

I would be very disappointed if that was the case, When I was speaking to
Murphy last they seemed committed to making the retro fix on the gear able
to be done as the aircraft sits, without pulling the side panels off. I
guess we'll just have wait and see what they come up with.

I think also you have to read between the lines a little with these people,
they might say it wont affect the vast majority of people but of course
they dont want to upset everyone, so they will try to talk the problem
down. A prudent builder would take heed.

Alister

----------

From: RebelAir@aol.com
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Spring Gear fix ???
Date: Thursday, January 21, 1999 2:50 PM

Hello Folks

I also talked to MAM last week about the spring gear fix. First of all,

they

categorically state that it is unnecessary for vast majority of people.

It is

only necessary if you are flying off of tundra etc. (their words).

However, the fix they are talking about means removing the lower corner

wraps

in order to allow access to the area in question. I could not consider

this

when you think about all of the work it took to put in the existing

overlap

plates in the top and bottom of the carrythroughs. I have about 80 3/16"
rivets per side. Holes are going to get damaged upon removal etc. etc.

They

need to think of something better than this before I consider slicing

this

thing apart.

Brian #328R

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[Mike Davis]

Received: from dialup.voyager.co.nz (ts1p12.net.ashburton.voyager.co.nz
[203.21.25.176]) by host02.net.voyager.co.nz (8.8.8/8.6.12) with ESMTP id
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Message-Id: <199901210514.SAA08265@host02.net.voyager.co.nz>
From: "Alister Yeoman" <yeoman@voyager.co.nz>
To: "Murphy Rebel" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Spring Gear fix ???
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 18:13:46 +1300
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Jim,

Could the legs be pressed somehow to even them up.

It would be a shame not to use them, if the mods are done the spring gear
is really good. I have just been looking through some of the old
correspondance from this forum on the bungee gear and it certainly has its
share of problems and failures,

Stick to the spring gear!!

Alister

----------

From: James A. Remington <jaremington@earthlink.net>
To: (Murphy Rebel) <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Spring Gear fix ???
Date: Thursday, January 21, 1999 3:32 PM

Alister: I received no wedges with my spring gear and no instructions

for

proper rigging of the finished gear. Believe me the difference between

the left

and right leg is such that I will need quite a different combination of

wedges

on each leg to get the aircraft level and to get the camber and caster

the

same. No hurry in sending the drawing. I am a long way from that step.

I

will look at Murphy's fix if there ever is one but I will also consider
sticking with the original gear and using the spring gear for bookends.

Alister Yeoman wrote:

Jim,

I can do that, I'll get on to it over the next few days.

I do have some concerns that this is of course not the official Murphy

fix,

I would suggest you wait a little to see what Murphy comes up with, it

does

sound as though they are onto it. I also found the cost of the solid
aluminum block and milling quite excessive, they may have a cheaper

option.

My gear legs were nice and straight, aluminum wedges were supplied in

the

kit to alter toe in/out etc. although I found I did not require them. I
think you will find the the legs quite rigid, they dont absorb the

loads as

much as I would like, those loads are then transferred onto the fuse.

That

is why with all the off field work I do I have elected for the bigger
tyres. ( 850-6).

The camber of course changes dramatically as you load the aircraft, I

think

yours would tend to even out ( I think!!), Lightly loaded there is a

lot of

positive camber, at all up weight it is noticably negative. The book

says

to set the wheels at slight toe out. Seems to work.

Yes, the brake lines can be quite messy can't they? I ended up using

all

aviation spec materials with the braided flexible line down the rear of

the

leg clipped on with the same clips as used on a C180. Very visible but

at

least it looks, and is functional!

I'll fax that through in the next few days.

Cheers

Alister

----------

From: James A. Remington <jaremington@earthlink.net>
To: (Murphy Rebel) <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Spring Gear fix ???
Date: Thursday, January 21, 1999 6:32 AM

Alister: Thanks for the very complete answer. I wonder if you would

be

willing to fax me a drawing of the milled solid aluminum block

inserts

you

designed. I have not started on my fuselage yet so I can make any

changes with

ease. However I have already purchased the spring gear. I was very
disappointed with the quality of those parts. Don't know why they

didn't

gun

drill the leg for an internal break line before bending. Hanging the

hydraulic

lines on the outside seems a bit behind the times. Since by two gear

legs I

got don't seem to match when clamped to a table top, I was wondering

what

system is used to adjust the individual legs to get the aircraft to

sit

level

and to get the camber on each tire to be correct?

Alister Yeoman wrote:

told

me

straddle

for

the

edge

of

of

the

the

settling

in,

little

develops (

it

quickly,

braking

starts to

there

are

for

the

bolts in

well.

The

this,

so it

working

now.

frequently in

the

bolt

should

be

big

drama.

until

say

corner

and

rivets

on

was

my

because

of

tyres.

places

and

problems.

What

changes in

didn't

seem

spring

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[Mike Davis]

Received: from earthlink.net (ip87a.richmond6.va.pub-ip.psi.net
[38.30.108.87])
by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA04554
for <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 10:04:42 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <36A76C5B.D6FC7CB5@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 13:05:15 -0500
From: "James A. Remington" <jaremington@earthlink.net>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; U)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: " (Murphy Rebel)" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Spring Gear fix ???
References: <199901210514.SAA08265@host02.net.voyager.co.nz>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Alister: I showed the gear to an EAA friend who knows a good bit about such
things and he said that to make them match they would have to be softened,
bent
and then tempered again to the original condition. This work must be done
by a
shop that really know heat treating of aluminum. He is also the one that
said
the legs should have been gun drilled for the hydraulic lines before they
were
bent the first time.

Jim

Alister Yeoman wrote:

Jim,

Could the legs be pressed somehow to even them up.

It would be a shame not to use them, if the mods are done the spring gear
is really good. I have just been looking through some of the old
correspondance from this forum on the bungee gear and it certainly has its
share of problems and failures,

Stick to the spring gear!!

Alister

----------

From: James A. Remington <jaremington@earthlink.net>
To: (Murphy Rebel) <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Spring Gear fix ???
Date: Thursday, January 21, 1999 3:32 PM

Alister: I received no wedges with my spring gear and no instructions

for

proper rigging of the finished gear. Believe me the difference between

the left

and right leg is such that I will need quite a different combination of

wedges

on each leg to get the aircraft level and to get the camber and caster

the

same. No hurry in sending the drawing. I am a long way from that step.

I

will look at Murphy's fix if there ever is one but I will also consider
sticking with the original gear and using the spring gear for bookends.

Alister Yeoman wrote:

Jim,

I can do that, I'll get on to it over the next few days.

I do have some concerns that this is of course not the official Murphy

fix,

I would suggest you wait a little to see what Murphy comes up with, it

does

sound as though they are onto it. I also found the cost of the solid
aluminum block and milling quite excessive, they may have a cheaper

option.

My gear legs were nice and straight, aluminum wedges were supplied in

the

kit to alter toe in/out etc. although I found I did not require them.

I

think you will find the the legs quite rigid, they dont absorb the

loads as

much as I would like, those loads are then transferred onto the fuse.

That

is why with all the off field work I do I have elected for the bigger
tyres. ( 850-6).

The camber of course changes dramatically as you load the aircraft, I

think

yours would tend to even out ( I think!!), Lightly loaded there is a

lot of

positive camber, at all up weight it is noticably negative. The book

says

to set the wheels at slight toe out. Seems to work.

Yes, the brake lines can be quite messy can't they? I ended up using

all

aviation spec materials with the braided flexible line down the rear

of

the

leg clipped on with the same clips as used on a C180. Very visible but

at

least it looks, and is functional!

I'll fax that through in the next few days.

Cheers

Alister

----------

would

be

inserts

you changes with

didn't

gun

the

hydraulic

gear

legs I

what

sit

level

told

me straddle

for

the

edge

of

of

the

the

settling

in, little

develops (

it quickly, braking

starts to

there

are

for

the

bolts in

well.

The

this,

so it working

now.

frequently in

the

gear

bolt

should

be

big

drama.

until

say

corner

and

rivets

on

this

was

my

because

of

tyres.

places

and

problems.

What changes in

didn't

seem

spring

[Mike Davis]

Received: from dialup.voyager.co.nz (ts1p09.net.ashburton.voyager.co.nz
[203.21.25.173]) by host02.net.voyager.co.nz (8.8.8/8.6.12) with ESMTP id
KAA15271 for <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 10:13:46 +1300
(NZDT)
Message-Id: <199901212113.KAA15271@host02.net.voyager.co.nz>
From: "Alister Yeoman" <yeoman@voyager.co.nz>
To: "Murphy Rebel" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Spring Gear fix ???
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 10:14:05 +1300
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Priority: 3
X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Jim,

You've tried Murphy for a replacement on them? If they are not right they
should be replaced, mine were absolutely perfect!

Alister
----------

From: James A. Remington <jaremington@earthlink.net>
To: (Murphy Rebel) <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Spring Gear fix ???
Date: Friday, January 22, 1999 7:05 AM

Alister: I showed the gear to an EAA friend who knows a good bit about

such

things and he said that to make them match they would have to be

softened, bent

and then tempered again to the original condition. This work must be

done by a

shop that really know heat treating of aluminum. He is also the one that

said

the legs should have been gun drilled for the hydraulic lines before they

were

bent the first time.

Jim

Alister Yeoman wrote:

Jim,

Could the legs be pressed somehow to even them up.

It would be a shame not to use them, if the mods are done the spring

gear

is really good. I have just been looking through some of the old
correspondance from this forum on the bungee gear and it certainly has

its

share of problems and failures,

Stick to the spring gear!!

Alister

----------

From: James A. Remington <jaremington@earthlink.net>
To: (Murphy Rebel) <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Spring Gear fix ???
Date: Thursday, January 21, 1999 3:32 PM

Alister: I received no wedges with my spring gear and no

instructions

for

proper rigging of the finished gear. Believe me the difference

between

the left

and right leg is such that I will need quite a different combination

of

wedges

on each leg to get the aircraft level and to get the camber and

caster

the

same. No hurry in sending the drawing. I am a long way from that

step.

I

will look at Murphy's fix if there ever is one but I will also

consider

sticking with the original gear and using the spring gear for

bookends.

Alister Yeoman wrote:

Murphy

fix,

it

does

solid

option.

in

the

them. I

loads as

fuse.

That

bigger

I

think

a

lot of

book

says

using

all

rear of

the

but

at

would

be

inserts

any

very

they

didn't

the

gear

wondering

what

to

sit

they

told

outer

diameter

for

the

edge

corner

of

against

the

settling

move a

develops (

quite

the

starts to

the

fact

there

inserts

for

bolts in

really

well.

this,

been

by

now.

frequently in

gear

should

no

big

off

until

rolled

corner

of

rivets

this

was

because

tyres.

places

problems.

any

didn't

the

spring

[Mike Davis]

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Message-ID: <36A7A722.18C115FB@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 17:16:02 -0500
From: "James A. Remington" <jaremington@earthlink.net>
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To: " (Murphy Rebel)" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Spring Gear fix ???
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Alister: The set I have now is a replacement for the first set. The first
set
was so bad that the left and right leg were off by 3 inches when clamped to
a
table and one had positive camber and the other had negative camber. No
amount
of shims could have corrected that. Goodness knows how the aircraft would
have
tracked on the ground and one wing tip would have been a least a foot lower
than the other. The second set was just about as bad so I did not try for a
third set. Again, no wedges or instructions were included with either set.

On a different tact, I doubt if the aircraft was ever designed to take the
concentrated torque load that this spring gear generates at the attach
point.
Your fix may have resolved that but Murphy's approach to all of these
structural failures is to 1) deny they exist 2) when that won't work, slap
on
a doubler of paper thin aluminum and hope it goes away.

This has been the case with cracks due to ever increasing engine weight,
seat
failures, tail cone buckling, etc. I realize it is an experimental but I
think
Murphy lets his ego and the bottom line get ahead of owning up to weak
points
and letting all kit owners know of potential problems. We kit owners are
also
at fault for taking an overgrown ultralight and trying to make it into an
C172. The original design wasn't bad. Everything was basically in harmony
including that 80 HP rotax. When we keep hanging heavier and heavier things
on
that airframe, I think we are asking for trouble. It ain't no Maule!

jar



Alister Yeoman wrote:

Jim,

You've tried Murphy for a replacement on them? If they are not right they
should be replaced, mine were absolutely perfect!

Alister
----------

From: James A. Remington <jaremington@earthlink.net>
To: (Murphy Rebel) <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Spring Gear fix ???
Date: Friday, January 22, 1999 7:05 AM

Alister: I showed the gear to an EAA friend who knows a good bit about

such

things and he said that to make them match they would have to be

softened, bent

and then tempered again to the original condition. This work must be

done by a

shop that really know heat treating of aluminum. He is also the one

that

said

the legs should have been gun drilled for the hydraulic lines before

they

were

bent the first time.

Jim

Alister Yeoman wrote:

Jim,

Could the legs be pressed somehow to even them up.

It would be a shame not to use them, if the mods are done the spring

gear

is really good. I have just been looking through some of the old
correspondance from this forum on the bungee gear and it certainly has

its

share of problems and failures,

Stick to the spring gear!!

Alister

----------

instructions

for

between

the left

of

wedges

caster

the

step.

I

consider

bookends.

Murphy

fix,

with,

it

does

solid

cheaper

option.

in

the

them. I

loads as

fuse.

That

bigger

aircraft,

I

think

a

lot of

book

says

using

all

rear of

the

but

at

would

be inserts

any

very

they

didn't

Hanging

the

gear

wondering

what

to

sit

they

told

outer

diameter

for

the

edge

corner

of

against

the settling

move a

develops (

quite

the

starts to

the

fact

there

inserts

for bolts in

really

well.

do

this,

been

by

now. frequently in

gear

but

should

no

big

off

until

rolled

corner

of

rivets

this

was because tyres.

rough

places problems.

any

didn't

the

spring

it.