insurance

[Nielsenbe]

I am thinking about getting a kit. I am not real familiar with insurance for planes much less kit planes with brand new pilots. I am just working on getting my liscense so low time is an unders tatement. I just read an article that conventional gear, auto engine and low time pilot would be the worst case senerio for insurance rates. That is exactly what situation I would have with a rebel and a subaru engine(what I was leaning twords). I guess most of you have already looked into this so I was just wondering what you have found out. Thanks for all the help and advise so far.

Brad

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[LisaFly99]

In a message dated 4/29/02 2:12:58 AM Central Daylight Time, Nielsenbe@aol.com writes:

I just read an article that conventional gear, auto engine and low time pilot would be the worst case senerio for insurance rates. That is exactly what situation I would have with a rebel and a subaru engine(what I was leaning twords).

BRAD Alternate aircraft engines by Subielyc Engine Systems
Drop Dave Bangle a line at the link above about insurance. I think he uses a company out of Washington State (Washington marine and aviation) or something like that. I have Avimco and they can be pricks to deal with. And I've heard they've gotten worse. Look at getting 10/10 in like and type at least. A J3 TG sign off isn't good enough. You'll need a TG sign off in American Champ, Maule, Husky or something that's closer in weight and horse power. If you use a Soob and are in the states you're fly off time will be 40Hr's. With a certified engine you're looking at 25Hr.
If you build you're own system you could save some money at the trade off of time?
If you use a proven Soob system ( SubieLyc, etc., etc.) It probably won't be any cheaper than a Lyc when all is said and done. And harder to insure. I'm not bad mouthing the Soob, that's the voice of experience.
Phil&Lisa Smith

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[Ralph Baker]

We asked Avemco at Sun & Fun what our cost would be for an Elite
taildragger with Lycoming O-360 flown by 125 hour pilot with TW endorsement
and 25 hours in a Champ. The rate was estimated at $1200.
This is liability only. They will not write new hull insurance on
homebuilts,

Last time I asked the same question a year or two ago it was $750 but
required 50 hours TW and 10 hours in type. It almost seems like it depends
on who you ask. Avemco does have a program where if you have at least 3
inspection visits by an EAA tech advisor who Oks your work by builders log
comment they will insure your first 10 flights.

It does seem that insurance is in a serious state of flux and it can't be
good news for us in the end.
Ralph Baker



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[Keith Oliver]

I spoke with them yesterday and was told no hull coverage at all

I have talked with Chuck Hubbard at Falcon Insurance 1-800-880-4545
He seem to offer a little more positive info, but haven't spoken to him
recently.
He felt that it could be covered but it would be pricey $$$$$$$





Keith Oliver
Elite #654 TD
N654ME (reserved)
Farmingdale, Maine




-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Ralph Baker
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 7:03 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: insurance


We asked Avemco at Sun & Fun what our cost would be for an Elite
taildragger with Lycoming O-360 flown by 125 hour pilot with TW endorsement
and 25 hours in a Champ. The rate was estimated at $1200.
This is liability only. They will not write new hull insurance on
homebuilts,

Last time I asked the same question a year or two ago it was $750 but
required 50 hours TW and 10 hours in type. It almost seems like it depends
on who you ask. Avemco does have a program where if you have at least 3
inspection visits by an EAA tech advisor who Oks your work by builders log
comment they will insure your first 10 flights.

It does seem that insurance is in a serious state of flux and it can't be
good news for us in the end.
Ralph Baker

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[Al & Deb Paxhia]

I have insured the Moose for amphibs with Falcon, they require 25 solo hours
for me since I have no amphib time. Falcon has a program for the seaplane
pilots association, if your on floats its worth joining. Avemco would not
give me a quote. They said check the EAA web site for information but as of
2 weeks ago they were not writing new experimental airplanes. This is our
EAA insurance program, go figure. I have heard of premiums running up 10%
of the hull value with high deductible for low time float pilots.
Al
Moose N526AP, (16 hours)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Keith Oliver" <kboliver@adelphia.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 5:31 PM
Subject: RE: insurance

I spoke with them yesterday and was told no hull coverage at all

I have talked with Chuck Hubbard at Falcon Insurance 1-800-880-4545
He seem to offer a little more positive info, but haven't spoken to him
recently.
He felt that it could be covered but it would be pricey $$$$$$$





Keith Oliver
Elite #654 TD
N654ME (reserved)
Farmingdale, Maine




-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Ralph Baker
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 7:03 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: insurance


We asked Avemco at Sun & Fun what our cost would be for an Elite
taildragger with Lycoming O-360 flown by 125 hour pilot with TW

endorsement

and 25 hours in a Champ. The rate was estimated at $1200.
This is liability only. They will not write new hull insurance on
homebuilts,

Last time I asked the same question a year or two ago it was $750 but
required 50 hours TW and 10 hours in type. It almost seems like it

depends

on who you ask. Avemco does have a program where if you have at least 3
inspection visits by an EAA tech advisor who Oks your work by builders log
comment they will insure your first 10 flights.

It does seem that insurance is in a serious state of flux and it can't be
good news for us in the end.
Ralph Baker

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[Michael Bleau]

I was wondering if anybody might be able to give me some info on insuring a
homebuilt project. I about to start building the Moose and have the tail
section now but have also purchased an engine and i would like the piece of
mind knowing it is insured in the event that something happens. Where can I
get insurance and where do you builders have your projects insured? thanks.
Mike.

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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

Mike, you haven't told use where you are! USA? Canada? Oz? etc.

You can buy builders insurance, in Canada, if you are an RAA National member
or a COPA National member through either organizations respective Group
insurance plans.

If you are in Canada and need further information please let me know and I
will hook you up!

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Bleau" <bleaumichael@hotmail.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 10:38 PM
Subject: Re: INSURANCE

I was wondering if anybody might be able to give me some info on insuring

a

homebuilt project. I about to start building the Moose and have the tail
section now but have also purchased an engine and i would like the piece

of

mind knowing it is insured in the event that something happens. Where can

I

get insurance and where do you builders have your projects insured?

thanks.

Mike.

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[Rhodes]

I have builders insurance through Avemco that is $471 USD a year. You keep
track of your time and it will pay $15 hr as you build. Kitlog Pro works
great. I am in Alaska.

Steve Rhodes
Moose 173


----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 06:45
Subject: Re: INSURANCE

Mike, you haven't told use where you are! USA? Canada? Oz? etc.

You can buy builders insurance, in Canada, if you are an RAA National

member

or a COPA National member through either organizations respective Group
insurance plans.

If you are in Canada and need further information please let me know and I
will hook you up!

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Bleau" <bleaumichael@hotmail.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 10:38 PM
Subject: Re: INSURANCE

I was wondering if anybody might be able to give me some info on

insuring

a

homebuilt project. I about to start building the Moose and have the tail
section now but have also purchased an engine and i would like the piece

of

mind knowing it is insured in the event that something happens. Where

can

I

get insurance and where do you builders have your projects insured?

thanks.

Mike.

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[rickhm]

Could you expand on this $15 hr?

Rick Muller
SR70
-------Original Message-------
From: Rhodes <RHODES5@GCI.NET>
Sent: 01/27/03 10:56 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: INSURANCE

I have builders insurance through Avemco that is $471 USD a year. You keep

track of your time and it will pay $15 hr as you build. Kitlog Pro works
great. I am in Alaska.

Steve Rhodes
Moose 173


----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 06:45
Subject: Re: INSURANCE

Mike, you haven't told use where you are! USA? Canada? Oz? etc.

You can buy builders insurance, in Canada, if you are an RAA National

member

or a COPA National member through either organizations respective Group
insurance plans.

If you are in Canada and need further information please let me know and

I

will hook you up!

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Bleau" <bleaumichael@hotmail.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 10:38 PM
Subject: Re: INSURANCE

I was wondering if anybody might be able to give me some info on

insuring

a

homebuilt project. I about to start building the Moose and have the

tail

section now but have also purchased an engine and i would like the

piece

of

mind knowing it is insured in the event that something happens. Where

can

I

get insurance and where do you builders have your projects insured?

thanks.

Mike.

_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*
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[Michael Bleau]

Sorry i didn't mention that I'm in Calgary Canada. thanks. Mike.

From: rickhm@mindspring.com
Reply-To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Re: INSURANCE
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 10:33:38 -0700 (MST)

Could you expand on this $15 hr?

Rick Muller
SR70
-------Original Message-------
From: Rhodes <RHODES5@GCI.NET>
Sent: 01/27/03 10:56 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: INSURANCE

I have builders insurance through Avemco that is $471 USD a year. You

keep
track of your time and it will pay $15 hr as you build. Kitlog Pro works
great. I am in Alaska.

Steve Rhodes
Moose 173


----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 06:45
Subject: Re: INSURANCE

Mike, you haven't told use where you are! USA? Canada? Oz? etc.

You can buy builders insurance, in Canada, if you are an RAA National

member

or a COPA National member through either organizations respective Group
insurance plans.

If you are in Canada and need further information please let me know and

I

will hook you up!

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Bleau" <bleaumichael@hotmail.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 10:38 PM
Subject: Re: INSURANCE

I was wondering if anybody might be able to give me some info on

insuring

a

homebuilt project. I about to start building the Moose and have the

tail

section now but have also purchased an engine and i would like the

piece

of

mind knowing it is insured in the event that something happens. Where

can

I

get insurance and where do you builders have your projects insured?

thanks.

Mike.

_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*
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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

Mike, then buy an RAAC membership for $50+GST (you should have one anyway
and support rec aviation in Canada!!) so you can apply for insurance through
them or a COPA membership (or both) and apply through their group Marsh
policy. I'm not sure which one is better or cheaper. I have a copy of the
COPA application here and put the details below. The RAA one you'll need to
call HDQT's at 1-800-387-1028 for more details.

Avemco ran out of Canada as of Dec 31, 2002 so that's not an option, and
there are others that used to do builders insurance so you need to shop
around. I did it once back in 1993 with Bob P's pal at Rhodes and Williams
and they took me for $1000/yr for a sliding coverage with a $50,000 top
limit. Asking around later I found out that Avemco would have given me
$250,000 coverage for that $1000, but I doubt it anymore.

A quick look at COPA's "Marsh" policy shows premiums of 1.25% of the kit
value, plus 1.25% of ((the completed value - the kit cost) DIVIDED by 2)).
SO if you did $55G's for what you have purchased so far for your SR and
$200,000cdn finished value it would cost you $1593.75cdn/year. You can
probably just fill in the lowest kit price you can prove by invoice as the
first amount though to lower the first 1.25%, but of course this would raise
the second 1.25% amount but should still be a bit lower total. Looking back
to my Rebel that started as a $17,000 kit with a finished parts value of
around $50,000 (the first time around with a $6000 O-235!) I could purchase
this from the COPA policy today for only $418.75. Half the price I paid 10
years ago to Rhodes and Williams for the same coverage!!

I also don't have details as to the fine print and unfortunately with Marsh
you only get it after you hand over your money it seems. I am sure you can
get it though when you ask for a quote to see how they will repay you for
time input towards the project.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Bleau" <bleaumichael@hotmail.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 10:22 PM
Subject: Re: Re: INSURANCE

Sorry i didn't mention that I'm in Calgary Canada. thanks. Mike.

From: rickhm@mindspring.com
Reply-To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Re: INSURANCE
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 10:33:38 -0700 (MST)

Could you expand on this $15 hr?

Rick Muller
SR70
-------Original Message-------
From: Rhodes <RHODES5@GCI.NET>
Sent: 01/27/03 10:56 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: INSURANCE

I have builders insurance through Avemco that is $471 USD a year. You

keep
track of your time and it will pay $15 hr as you build. Kitlog Pro works
great. I am in Alaska.

Steve Rhodes
Moose 173


----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 06:45
Subject: Re: INSURANCE

Mike, you haven't told use where you are! USA? Canada? Oz? etc.

You can buy builders insurance, in Canada, if you are an RAA National

member

or a COPA National member through either organizations respective

Group

insurance plans.

If you are in Canada and need further information please let me know

and

I

will hook you up!

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Bleau" <bleaumichael@hotmail.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 10:38 PM
Subject: Re: INSURANCE

insuring

a

tail

piece

of

Where

can

I thanks.

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[Rhodes]

Keeping track of your time and materials, parts increases the insured value
of your project. Avemco has the details I am sure. I would assume they will
adjust my premiums at some point - probably yearly.

Steve Rhodes
#173 Moose

----- Original Message -----
From: <rickhm@mindspring.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 08:33
Subject: Re: Re: INSURANCE

Could you expand on this $15 hr?

Rick Muller
SR70
-------Original Message-------
From: Rhodes <RHODES5@GCI.NET>
Sent: 01/27/03 10:56 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: INSURANCE

I have builders insurance through Avemco that is $471 USD a year. You

keep

track of your time and it will pay $15 hr as you build. Kitlog Pro works
great. I am in Alaska.

Steve Rhodes
Moose 173


----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 06:45
Subject: Re: INSURANCE

Mike, you haven't told use where you are! USA? Canada? Oz? etc.

You can buy builders insurance, in Canada, if you are an RAA National

member

or a COPA National member through either organizations respective Group
insurance plans.

If you are in Canada and need further information please let me know and

I

will hook you up!

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Bleau" <bleaumichael@hotmail.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 10:38 PM
Subject: Re: INSURANCE

I was wondering if anybody might be able to give me some info on

insuring

a

homebuilt project. I about to start building the Moose and have the

tail

section now but have also purchased an engine and i would like the

piece

of

mind knowing it is insured in the event that something happens. Where

can

I

get insurance and where do you builders have your projects insured?

thanks.

Mike.

_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

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[mike.davis]

I just called Avemco this morning, and they will no longer write any type of
policy on Murphy kits... builders insurance, or standard coverage for a
completed kit. When I asked why I was told their policy had changed. I would
imagine they are getting out of the homebuilt market. The representative I
spoke with recommended Falcon insurance... a quick web search turned up an
address of http://www.falconinsurance.com

Mike
195SR

On 1/31/03 7:41 AM, RHODES5@GCI.NET wrote to MURPHY-REBEL:

-> Keeping track of your time and materials, parts increases the insured value
-> of your project. Avemco has the details I am sure. I would assume they will
-> adjust my premiums at some point - probably yearly.
->
-> Steve Rhodes
-> #173 Moose




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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

This is why EAA dumped Avemco as their group insurer, as they dumped ALL
homebuilt aircraft. Then slowly brought back a couple to look like they
wanted to entertain "us", but I think the only ones they brought back
coverage on was the RV's and the Zenairs (possible a few more) and took so
long doing so EAA gave up on them!

I don't remember whom EAA went with after that, but I'm sure you USA guys
could contact the EAA headquarters (or go online) and they could recommend
what to do for coverage of our flying machines (even if they are still in
pieces!!)

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: <mike.davis@dcsol.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 11:44 AM
Subject: Re: Re: INSURANCE

I just called Avemco this morning, and they will no longer write any type

of

policy on Murphy kits... builders insurance, or standard coverage for a
completed kit. When I asked why I was told their policy had changed. I

would

imagine they are getting out of the homebuilt market. The representative

I

spoke with recommended Falcon insurance... a quick web search turned up an
address of http://www.falconinsurance.com

Mike
195SR

On 1/31/03 7:41 AM, RHODES5@GCI.NET wrote to MURPHY-REBEL:

-> Keeping track of your time and materials, parts increases the insured

value

-> of your project. Avemco has the details I am sure. I would assume they

will

-> adjust my premiums at some point - probably yearly.
->
-> Steve Rhodes
-> #173 Moose

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[Reed, Britt/FSC Salt Lake]

I spoke with Dawn @ Falcon (Vegas 702-648-1273) - She was really helpful - I
think she suggested at least 50 hours time in type (taildragger). Falcon is
insuring the SR2500 (nosewheel) that is hangered in Heber Utah.

Britt - Salt Lake City - 194SR



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