Thrust Plate

[Wayne G. O'Shea]

Well that's a shame! MAM changed another item that was 100% perfect the way
it was, to make it fit something else at the expense of "Mickey Mouse'ng"
the original installation for our Rebels! Glad Darryl had sent Howard a
spare to replace the new one we had just put on his Rebel prior to Oshkosh
last year, that had to have a crack stop drilled up near the nose. Cracked
one is still on and not getting any worse, but I hope the replacement that
Darryl sent him is the older version or we will be farting around to install
it and need to buy longer bolts!

That set of prop bolts from Sensenich is worth $250+Cdn (well maybe not
worth, but that's what they cost!). If MAM knows that you have ordered a
spinner and a prop through them from Sensenich, they should make sure that
Sensenich ships a bolt set for an S11 assembly and not an S8, For those that
don't now the S= spacer (in the prop assembly 74DM7S8-0-56) and the number
is 1/4's of an inch. ie: 8=2" spacer and 11=2 3/4" that would equal the 2"
spacer + the 1/2" Mickey Mouse spacer + the 1/4" of the E-26.

Bruce, when you put the prop bolts in, the proper bolts with the 1" thread
length will protrude through the back of the bushings a few threads if the
correct length. You can use normal AN7H-** bolts (that's all the newer style
prop bolts are with just the double length thread instead), but it is a fine
line between bottoming the threads and having enough into the bushings to be
safe. You should be able to put your finger across back of the bolt bushing
on the prop flange and the pad area of your finger should be able to touch
the end of the bolt, otherwise they aren't in deep enough! I always hand
thread the bolts into the flange without a prop on and bottom them out
lightly. Then I take a feel behind the flange to see where they are in the
bushings. Remember this location and make sure you don't go this deep with
the bolts when everything is torqued in place.

Regards,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca


----- Original Message -----
From: <Legeorgen@cs.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 10:52 PM
Subject: Re: Trust Plate

Wayne,

The front bulkhead bolts on with the prop bolts. I do have the metal
Sensenich for an 0320 from MAM that measures 4". My front bulkhead HAD to

be

spaced exactly a half inch from the prop to meet up with the spinner.

Is the 0360 prop 4 1/2" thick? Maybe MAM is using this spinner kit for

both

installations now, to consolidate inventory. I recollect Grant mentioning
that I wouldn't have needed the spacers with an 0360. At any rate, the

bolts

Sensenich sent out with the prop made no allowance for any spacing of a
bulkhead, or thrust plate. I believe the bolts have to have thread

engagement

at least the diameter of the bolt. In this case 7/16" into the prop

flange.

Bruce G 357R

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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

Gave some more thought to that after I typed it and the real answer instead
of bugging Sensenich for longer bolts would be to supply different front
bulkheads. I'm pretty sure that is all that MAM would have changed to
facilitate usage on the thicker O-360 prop. The back plate and spinner would
still be the same size. They have therefore reduced the diameter of the
forward bulkhead or cut down on the cone angle. I know it's a higher parts
count to stock, but it wouldn't be that hard to stock three front bulkheads
for 3 1/2", 4" and 4 1/2" thick props and throw them into the box with a
spinner and back plate as they go out the door!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 11:18 PM
Subject: Re: Thrust Plate

Well that's a shame! MAM changed another item that was 100% perfect the

way

it was, to make it fit something else at the expense of "Mickey Mouse'ng"
the original installation for our Rebels! Glad Darryl had sent Howard a
spare to replace the new one we had just put on his Rebel prior to Oshkosh
last year, that had to have a crack stop drilled up near the nose. Cracked
one is still on and not getting any worse, but I hope the replacement that
Darryl sent him is the older version or we will be farting around to

install

it and need to buy longer bolts!

That set of prop bolts from Sensenich is worth $250+Cdn (well maybe not
worth, but that's what they cost!). If MAM knows that you have ordered a
spinner and a prop through them from Sensenich, they should make sure that
Sensenich ships a bolt set for an S11 assembly and not an S8, For those

that

don't now the S= spacer (in the prop assembly 74DM7S8-0-56) and the number
is 1/4's of an inch. ie: 8=2" spacer and 11=2 3/4" that would equal the 2"
spacer + the 1/2" Mickey Mouse spacer + the 1/4" of the E-26.

Bruce, when you put the prop bolts in, the proper bolts with the 1" thread
length will protrude through the back of the bushings a few threads if the
correct length. You can use normal AN7H-** bolts (that's all the newer

style

prop bolts are with just the double length thread instead), but it is a

fine

line between bottoming the threads and having enough into the bushings to

be

safe. You should be able to put your finger across back of the bolt

bushing

on the prop flange and the pad area of your finger should be able to touch
the end of the bolt, otherwise they aren't in deep enough! I always hand
thread the bolts into the flange without a prop on and bottom them out
lightly. Then I take a feel behind the flange to see where they are in the
bushings. Remember this "location" and make sure you don't go this deep

with

the bolts when everything is torqued in place.

Regards,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca


----- Original Message -----
From: <Legeorgen@cs.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 10:52 PM
Subject: Re: Trust Plate

Wayne,

The front bulkhead bolts on with the prop bolts. I do have the metal
Sensenich for an 0320 from MAM that measures 4". My front bulkhead HAD

to

be

spaced exactly a half inch from the prop to meet up with the spinner.

Is the 0360 prop 4 1/2" thick? Maybe MAM is using this spinner kit for

both

installations now, to consolidate inventory. I recollect Grant

mentioning

that I wouldn't have needed the spacers with an 0360. At any rate, the

bolts

Sensenich sent out with the prop made no allowance for any spacing of a
bulkhead, or thrust plate. I believe the bolts have to have thread

engagement

at least the diameter of the bolt. In this case 7/16" into the prop

flange.

Bruce G 357R

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[Legeorgen]

Wayne,

Thanks for all the prop/bolt/spinner advice. I ordered the prop from MAM with
a 1 1/2" spacer, not the typical 2" spacer. Maybe MAM got confused with the
change in bolt size. Not to complicated, really. All they had to do was
shorten the normal bolt length they used by 1/2".

Maybe MAM sent me the wrong spinner thinking I had an 0360. I had no way of
knowing, never having installed one of their spinners, so I spaced the
forward bulkhead like it shows in Tony Bengelis's "Firewall Forward". Using a
1 1/2" prop spacer instead of a 2", of course, had no effect on the spinner
bulkhead and installation.

I will call MAM this week and seek some clarification. I think they at least
owe me new prop bolts, of the proper size, since I order the prop and spinner
all from them.

Bruce G 357R



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[Legeorgen]

Wayne,

A different forward bulkhead of a larger diameter would have worked, hence no
spacers. Maybe MAM sent me the forward bulkhead intended for the 0360.

Bruce G 357R



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[Brian & Pat Cross]

Hi Bruce

Did you ever get the bolt lengths finally figured out. I want to order a
Sensenich prop from these folks but don't want to be hassling over the
proper bolt length. How did you arrive at the AN7-60 or AN7-64. By my
calcs., you will need AN7H-71 or so when you add up all the spacers, etc.

Please advise.

Thanks

Brian #328R

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Legeorgen@cs.com
Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2002 11:19 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Thrust Plate


Wayne,

Thanks for all the prop/bolt/spinner advice. I ordered the prop from MAM
with
a 1 1/2" spacer, not the typical 2" spacer. Maybe MAM got confused with the
change in bolt size. Not to complicated, really. All they had to do was
shorten the normal bolt length they used by 1/2".

Maybe MAM sent me the wrong spinner thinking I had an 0360. I had no way of
knowing, never having installed one of their spinners, so I spaced the
forward bulkhead like it shows in Tony Bengelis's "Firewall Forward". Using
a
1 1/2" prop spacer instead of a 2", of course, had no effect on the spinner
bulkhead and installation.

I will call MAM this week and seek some clarification. I think they at least
owe me new prop bolts, of the proper size, since I order the prop and
spinner
all from them.

Bruce G 357R

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[Legeorgen]

Hi Brian,

I ordered a 74DM7S-0-56 propeller. This is a prop for an 0320 with 7/16"
bolts. A 3/8" prop bolt engine would be a 74DM6S-0-56, or 58, depending on if
you want a climb or cruise propeller. The 6 or 7 designates the bolt size
(i.e. 6/16 or 7/16). If you use the lasted spinner kit and thrust plate from
MAM, which requires spacing the front bulkhead 1/2", you will need a bolt
length of 6.719". Sensenich calls this bolt kit a PK70CM7S9, or 6S9 depending
on bolt diameter. Ed Zercher, at Sensenich, was very helpful in exchanging my
bolts without a hitch.

If you order the prop from MAM, be sure and have MAM order the prop with this
bolt kit. MAM may or may not have it together concerning this detail, now. I
would guess not.

Bruce G 357R



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[Brian & Pat Cross]

Hi Bruce

Thanks very much for your rapid reply. Can you tell me if you have
installed this yet?

I would very much like to know if the bolt length, (I assume this does not
include the head itself), is just right for you.

I am using the standard 2" spacer & have drawn it up in detail per the
discussion on the net.
Per the discussion, the forward bulkhead now is bolted to the face of the
prop using the prop bolts. The forward bulkhead is spaced off of the prop
by 1/2" if I understand it correctly.

I have also got an 0320 with 7/16" bolts and according to my understanding
of these details, it would therefore require a bolt length of 7.199" or
about 7.25" to have a few threads come through the back of the prop flange.

I am probably missing something here. I wish I could show you the drawing
that I have made. I am also assuming the prop is 3 7/16" thick per the web
info at Sensenich.

I would really appreciate your thoughts on this. I would like to get this
done & on the aircraft so that I could possibly fly to Sun 'n Fun - 2002
that is.

Thank you very much.

Brian Cross #328R

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Legeorgen@cs.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 11:08 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Thrust Plate


Hi Brian,

I ordered a 74DM7S-0-56 propeller. This is a prop for an 0320 with 7/16"
bolts. A 3/8" prop bolt engine would be a 74DM6S-0-56, or 58, depending on
if
you want a climb or cruise propeller. The 6 or 7 designates the bolt size
(i.e. 6/16 or 7/16). If you use the lasted spinner kit and thrust plate from
MAM, which requires spacing the front bulkhead 1/2", you will need a bolt
length of 6.719". Sensenich calls this bolt kit a PK70CM7S9, or 6S9
depending
on bolt diameter. Ed Zercher, at Sensenich, was very helpful in exchanging
my
bolts without a hitch.

If you order the prop from MAM, be sure and have MAM order the prop with
this
bolt kit. MAM may or may not have it together concerning this detail, now. I
would guess not.

Bruce G 357R

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[Legeorgen]

Brian,

Your calculations are correct. You will need a bolt length (not including the
bolt head) one half inch longer than the 6.719 inches I stated earlier. If I
forgot to mention, I used a 1 1/2 inch spacer and not the 2 inch MAM
recommends. I apologize for leaving out that "IMPORTANT" detail. You can stop
pulling your hair out thinking you missed something.

FWIW, I had no problems with the speed cowl fit using the 1 1/2 inch spacer.
I don't know how much difference a half inch will make with my C&G but every
little bit helps.

What did you have on your Rebel you're replacing with the Sensenich? Was it a
Warp Drive, and why, if you don't mind, are you replacing it? What made you
chose the Sensenich? Just curious.

Bruce G 357R



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[Brian & Pat Cross]

Hi Bruce

Thanks so much for responding to my concern here. I must have missed your
comment on the 2" spacer. I assumed that was the standard & included the 2"
in my calcs. Could you please confirm that your 6.719" bolts fitted
properly i.e. Have you already fitted the prop & spinner?

You are right, I have the 3 blade Warp Drive on #328. Just getting more &
more concerned about the cracking that people are getting on their Warp
Drives. One of the builders here called me one weekend as he was stuck on
the ground a fair ways away with cracking at the roots of his blades. I
tend to travel a fair bit at times & don't want to get stuck 800 miles away
from home with this problem or worse...

I like the Warp Drive for its weight as I was also very concerned about CG &
weight on the nose & my less than perfect landings at times, but will forgo
that for the piece of mind of knowing that a prop blade is not likely to
depart in one direction with me & my airplane going another.

I chose the Sensenich because MAM have got good performance behind it & Ed
at Sensenich even helped greatly when I was fitting the Warp Drive a few
years back. A very classy guy I would say!

Now all I have to do is go on a diet & lose 20 pounds to counter the prop
weight gain! Should be no problem.

Thanks again. Would again appreciate it if you could confirm the bolts
worked in your installation.

Cheers


Brian #328R

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Legeorgen@cs.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 10:14 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Thrust Plate


Brian,

Your calculations are correct. You will need a bolt length (not including
the
bolt head) one half inch longer than the 6.719 inches I stated earlier. If I
forgot to mention, I used a 1 1/2 inch spacer and not the 2 inch MAM
recommends. I apologize for leaving out that "IMPORTANT" detail. You can
stop
pulling your hair out thinking you missed something.

FWIW, I had no problems with the speed cowl fit using the 1 1/2 inch spacer.
I don't know how much difference a half inch will make with my C&G but every
little bit helps.

What did you have on your Rebel you're replacing with the Sensenich? Was it
a
Warp Drive, and why, if you don't mind, are you replacing it? What made you
chose the Sensenich? Just curious.

Bruce G 357R

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[Legeorgen]

Brian,

Yes, I have fitted the prop/bolt/spinner and will confirm this bolt length
(6.719 inches) to be correct. If you are using a 2" spacer you should
lengthen this by one half inch.

I had originally intended on using the Warp Drive myself, because of the
weight savings as well as having one on my 912 Kitfox that has performed very
well, but was persuaded by the cracking issues to go with the proven and
peace of mind, Sensenich.

I moved my planned battery installation to the tail cone to balance C&G. This
will locate the empty weight C&G to around 9 inches aft. This will give me a
most forward loading calculation of 11 inches (just inside MAM's recommended
limit of 10.85) and a most rearward loaded calculation of 18 inches (just
inside the most aft limit 18.10). It worked out almost text book perfect,
except in the real world, I almost always fly around with me and little else,
putting me always at the forward end of the envelope.

As for going on a diet, take comfort in knowing the more you weigh, the
further aft your loading becomes, so don't be so quick to give up that beer
and pizza.

Bruce G. 357R



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