Engine & other considerations!

Flyin B Ranch · Post by **Flyin B Ranch** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:38 pm

Hello all,
Back to working on my Rebel :-)
Time to find an engine. The plane is set up for an 0-320, Dynafocal mount ect. I am getting real frustrated at finding a engine i can afford thats not worn out or not too far to go look at and wondering how the 0-290 would work (do they fit same engine mount ect.) Is there much difference in performance, Weight? I also considered a Subaru but the project came with all the FWF for a Lyc.
The plane was also set up for split flaps/ail. That dosent sound like the best choice, So i went ahead and rigged the plane that way but would like to change back to flaperons before i fly it. I guess all i need is to fabricate or order a plate for the end of the flap, Cut fabric and rivit it on? Also wondering about the horn that connects to the cable to droop the ailirons when using the split flaps, It has been changed from 1 1/2" to 1" . is that setup ok for flaperons as well?

Bruce

Drew and Jan · Post by **Drew and Jan** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:38 pm

Hi Bruce the 0-290's are all conical [flat] mount as far as I know. I think
it weighs the same or even a bit more than an 0-320 It's kind of a bastard
engine not supported by lycoming and parts are rumored to be really
expensive. :( All that aside I've had really good luck with mine and my
plane performs almost as well as one with an 0-320 Although sometimes it
bothers me that I'm flying behind an engine thats older than I am.
Subarus are good engines but I think a firewall forward conversion costs
more than a low time lyc. If you do the conversion yourself you might be
able to save some money but you'll add months or years to your building
time. You should also consider the finished value of your plane is it worth
more with a lycoming or a subaru.
On your flaps/flaperons you should be able to swap them from one side to
the other so the existing horn falls in the middle and not make any changes
at all. I don't know if the 1" bar will be strong enough.
Drew Dalgleish

At 08:03 PM 1/9/2002 -0800, you wrote:

Hello all, Back to working on my Rebel :-) Time to find an engine. The
plane is set up for an 0-320, Dynafocal mount ect. I am getting real
frustrated at finding a engine i can afford thats not worn out or not too
far to go look at and wondering how the 0-290 would work (do they fit same
engine mount ect.) Is there much difference in performance, Weight? I also
considered a Subaru but the project came with all the FWF for a Lyc. The
plane was also set up for split flaps/ail. That dosent sound like the best
choice, So i went ahead and rigged the plane that way but would like to
change back to flaperons before i fly it. I guess all i need is to
fabricate or order a plate for the end of the flap, Cut fabric and rivit
it on? Also wondering about the horn that connects to the cable to droop
the ailirons when using the split flaps, It has been changed from 1 1/2"
to 1" . is that setup ok for flaperons as well? Bruce

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Flyin B Ranch · Post by **Flyin B Ranch** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:38 pm

Thanks for your imput Drew,
Would really like an 0-320 mid time or so. Have had good and bad luck buying an engine sight unseen so really would like to find one in driving distance (I live in Oregon). The horn on the flap is way different (much shorter) than the one on the aileron so i wont be able to swap them. Are you talking about the bar that goes from the flap handle to the wing root? That is the bar that the 1" horn mounts to.
Bruce

Hi Bruce the 0-290's are all conical [flat] mount as far as I know. I think

it weighs the same or even a bit more than an 0-320 It's kind of a bastard
engine not supported by lycoming and parts are rumored to be really
expensive. :( All that aside I've had really good luck with mine and my
plane performs almost as well as one with an 0-320 Although sometimes it
bothers me that I'm flying behind an engine thats older than I am.
Subarus are good engines but I think a firewall forward conversion costs
more than a low time lyc. If you do the conversion yourself you might be
able to save some money but you'll add months or years to your building
time. You should also consider the finished value of your plane is it worth
more with a lycoming or a subaru.
On your flaps/flaperons you should be able to swap them from one side to
the other so the existing horn falls in the middle and not make any changes
at all. I don't know if the 1" bar will be strong enough.
Drew Dalgleish

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Wayne G. O'Shea · Post by **Wayne G. O'Shea** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:38 pm

Drew, I was always told that was the case also! Just swap the inner
flaperons side to side, to switch from flaperons to split flaps, but after
working on a split flap Rebel last summer I know that is not the case. The
flap horn is thicker and has less pivot distance, than a flaperon horn. To
switch to flaperons he will need to drill off the old plates on the inboard
flaps and put on a new flaperon plate and swap the units side to side.

OR you could put the new flaperon horn on the other end of the flap, without
switching sides and leave the flap horn on the inboard end. This would allow
trying out both worlds and going with the one you like the best!

Regards,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew and Jan" <drewjan@execulink.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 11:43 AM
Subject: Re: Engine & other considerations!

On your flaps/flaperons you should be able to swap them from one side to
the other so the existing horn falls in the middle and not make any

changes

at all. .
Drew Dalgleish

========================
The

plane was also set up for split flaps/ail. That dosent sound like the

best

choice, So i went ahead and rigged the plane that way but would like to
change back to flaperons before i fly it. I guess all i need is to
fabricate or order a plate for the end of the flap, Cut fabric and rivit
it on? Also wondering about the horn that connects to the cable to droop
the ailirons when using the split flaps, It has been changed from 1 1/2"
to 1" . is that setup ok for flaperons as well? Bruce

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Drew and Jan · Post by **Drew and Jan** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:38 pm

thanks for clearing that up Wayne I started off talking about stuff I knew
about [engines] and should have known when to shut up.I've never seen a
rebel with split flaps and I was just repeating what I'd been told.
Drew

At 09:41 AM 1/10/2002 -0500, you wrote:

Drew, I was always told that was the case also! Just swap the inner
flaperons side to side, to switch from flaperons to split flaps, but after
working on a split flap Rebel last summer I know that is not the case. The
flap horn is thicker and has less pivot distance, than a flaperon horn. To
switch to flaperons he will need to drill off the old plates on the inboard
flaps and put on a new flaperon plate and swap the units side to side.

OR you could put the new flaperon horn on the other end of the flap, without
switching sides and leave the flap horn on the inboard end. This would allow
trying out both worlds and going with the one you like the best!

Regards,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

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Drew and Jan · Post by **Drew and Jan** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:38 pm

Well Bruce I thought you were talking about the flaperon bar and as I said
to Wayne I've never seen a rebel with flaps and I should have kept my mouth
shut. I know of an 0-320 for sale here in ont that should go cheap[it flew
into a snowbank at about 150mph] but thats probably farther than you want
to drive :)
Drew

At 06:35 AM 1/10/2002 -0800, you wrote:

Thanks for your imput Drew,
Would really like an 0-320 mid time or so. Have had good and bad luck

buying an engine sight unseen so really would like to find one in driving
distance (I live in Oregon). The horn on the flap is way different (much
shorter) than the one on the aileron so i wont be able to swap them. Are
you talking about the bar that goes from the flap handle to the wing root?
That is the bar that the 1" horn mounts to.

Bruce

Hi Bruce the 0-290's are all conical [flat] mount as far as I know. I think
it weighs the same or even a bit more than an 0-320 It's kind of a bastard
engine not supported by lycoming and parts are rumored to be really
expensive. :( All that aside I've had really good luck with mine and my
plane performs almost as well as one with an 0-320 Although sometimes it
bothers me that I'm flying behind an engine thats older than I am.
Subarus are good engines but I think a firewall forward conversion costs
more than a low time lyc. If you do the conversion yourself you might be
able to save some money but you'll add months or years to your building
time. You should also consider the finished value of your plane is it worth
more with a lycoming or a subaru.
On your flaps/flaperons you should be able to swap them from one side to
the other so the existing horn falls in the middle and not make any changes
at all. I don't know if the 1" bar will be strong enough.
Drew Dalgleish

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Bob Patterson · Post by **Bob Patterson** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:38 pm

Hi Bruce !

Drew's right - the parts for the O-290 run about FIVE TIMES !!
the cost of O-320 parts ! It wouldn't take too many repairs to
leave you worse off. Also, the O-290, depending on model, has
a history of problems with valves and camshaft failures - possibly
partly because of a poor oiling system - probably not the best
choice (but they ARE cheap to buy !) (Lycoming stopped making
them about 1954 ...)

If you want a reliable source for a freshly overhauled
(with guarantee) O-320, you could call John Donaldson at ATC,
near us in Orillia, Ontario, Canada (705) 325-5515. The price
will likely be under $20,000 CDN. - and you get about a 60% discount
for using US $ !!! (The Canadian peso is down to about 62 cents in
real money ! :-( )

John has built over 30 engines for Rebel builders over the
last 10 years or so, and I haven't heard ANY complaints.

Crossflow Aero, in Shelburne, Ontario (519) 925-5633
(www.crosslow.com) have supplied several firewall-forward packages
for Rebels. I've flown a couple, and was impressed. The cost
will likely run close to a Lycosaurus, though. It does get you
away from fear that 100 ll will disappear soon ... And the
Subarus I've flown ALL burned at least 1/3 to 1/2 as much as an
equivalent Lyco !

I hear that Eggenfellner have a very good price right now
on their conversions, (about $13,000 USD) - and I know of one
Rebel nearby that has ordered one.

Good hunting !

....bobp

------------------------------orig.--------------------------------
At 08:43 AM 1/10/02 -0800, you wrote:

Hi Bruce the 0-290's are all conical [flat] mount as far as I know. I think
it weighs the same or even a bit more than an 0-320 It's kind of a bastard
engine not supported by lycoming and parts are rumored to be really
expensive. :( All that aside I've had really good luck with mine and my
plane performs almost as well as one with an 0-320 Although sometimes it
bothers me that I'm flying behind an engine thats older than I am.
Subarus are good engines but I think a firewall forward conversion costs
more than a low time lyc. If you do the conversion yourself you might be
able to save some money but you'll add months or years to your building
time. You should also consider the finished value of your plane is it worth
more with a lycoming or a subaru.
On your flaps/flaperons you should be able to swap them from one side to
the other so the existing horn falls in the middle and not make any changes
at all. I don't know if the 1" bar will be strong enough.
Drew Dalgleish

At 08:03 PM 1/9/2002 -0800, you wrote:
Hello all, Back to working on my Rebel :-) Time to find an engine. The
plane is set up for an 0-320, Dynafocal mount ect. I am getting real
frustrated at finding a engine i can afford thats not worn out or not too
far to go look at and wondering how the 0-290 would work (do they fit same
engine mount ect.) Is there much difference in performance, Weight? I also
considered a Subaru but the project came with all the FWF for a Lyc. The
plane was also set up for split flaps/ail. That dosent sound like the best
choice, So i went ahead and rigged the plane that way but would like to
change back to flaperons before i fly it. I guess all i need is to
fabricate or order a plate for the end of the flap, Cut fabric and rivit
it on? Also wondering about the horn that connects to the cable to droop
the ailirons when using the split flaps, It has been changed from 1 1/2"
to 1" . is that setup ok for flaperons as well? Bruce
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Flyin B Ranch · Post by **Flyin B Ranch** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:38 pm

Bob,
Ok, Now ya went and talked me out of getting an 0-290. I thought i was going to get a real deal on a engine, Darn ya popped my bubble..Hehehe
Now iam back on track again at least, Looks like it will be an 0-320 as i have all the fwf stuff for one. I also ran regular auto gas in my RV-4 for hundreds of hours without any problems. It was the 150hp. as i will fly off the ranch thats mostly what i plan to burn. I cant afford $20,000 for an engine or even $10,000 if i want to fly anytime soon :-) I will look for a mid to high time engine for sure.

Bruce

Hi Bruce !

Drew's right - the parts for the O-290 run about FIVE TIMES !!
the cost of O-320 parts ! It wouldn't take too many repairs to
leave you worse off. Also, the O-290, depending on model, has
a history of problems with valves and camshaft failures - possibly
partly because of a poor oiling system - probably not the best
choice (but they ARE cheap to buy !) (Lycoming stopped making
them about 1954 ...)

If you want a reliable source for a freshly overhauled
(with guarantee) O-320, you could call John Donaldson at ATC,
near us in Orillia, Ontario, Canada (705) 325-5515. The price
will likely be under $20,000 CDN. - and you get about a 60% discount
for using US $ !!! (The Canadian peso is down to about 62 cents in
real money ! :-( )

John has built over 30 engines for Rebel builders over the
last 10 years or so, and I haven't heard ANY complaints.

Crossflow Aero, in Shelburne, Ontario (519) 925-5633
(www.crosslow.com) have supplied several firewall-forward packages
for Rebels. I've flown a couple, and was impressed. The cost
will likely run close to a Lycosaurus, though. It does get you
away from fear that 100 ll will disappear soon ... And the
Subarus I've flown ALL burned at least 1/3 to 1/2 as much as an
equivalent Lyco !

I hear that Eggenfellner have a very good price right now
on their conversions, (about $13,000 USD) - and I know of one
Rebel nearby that has ordered one.

Good hunting !

....bobp

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