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Float point reinforcing

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Wayne G. O'Shea

Float point reinforcing

Post by Wayne G. O'Shea » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:22 pm

Hi Guys and Gals!

Just thought I would post that MAM has updates to various manual sections in
the tech section of www.murphyair.com for the SR and the Elite.

Also I have been recommending to add a .063 doubler at the rear float attach
bracket on bulkhead "A" to reinforce it, as every Rebel on floats I've
looked at has started to compact (pucker) the side skin in the location of
the C shaped cut out on the bulkhead. I just printed out the updated Elite
fuselage section from the MAM site for reference material (as I have never
seen an Elite manual before). Low and behold Murphy supplies a doubler,
FUS-448, for this exact purpose on the Elite. Considering the Elite is
constructed exactly the same as the Rebel in this location, this part should
also be suppled with the Rebel! Some things with MAM I will never
understand!

So maybe anyone still in the building stage of a Rebel fuselage, that
doesn't have access to the raw material, should just buy two FUS-448's from
MAM! But it does look fairly light gauge in the manual, compared to my
suggested .063 (overkill).

DOES ANYONE BUILDING AN ELITE HAVE A VERNIER AND CAN SUPPLY THE THICKNESS OF
THE FUS-448 SUPPLIED IN YOUR KIT, SO WE ALL KNOW. THANKS!!

Regards,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca






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David Ricker

Float point reinforcing

Post by David Ricker » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:22 pm

Hi Wayne

The FUS-448s you were asking about are .040" in the Elite or at least the one we
have, S/N 583 which I believe is one of the first Elite kits put out. Perhaps
Bob P. can find out if this is the latest spec & let us know if we should be
thinking of re-making this part.

Also while we are talking about Rebel/Elite issues, is there any similarity in
the tail post spar setup in the Elite that would cause concern about needing to
carry the Rebel fix over to the Elite? I do not have a rebel Manual to consult
but the Elite manual does not seem to call up the affected P/Ns quoted in the
SB.

Thanks

Dave R.





"Wayne G. O'Shea" wrote:
Hi Guys and Gals!

Just thought I would post that MAM has updates to various manual sections in
the tech section of www.murphyair.com for the SR and the Elite.

Also I have been recommending to add a .063 doubler at the rear float attach
bracket on bulkhead "A" to reinforce it, as every Rebel on floats I've
looked at has started to compact (pucker) the side skin in the location of
the C shaped cut out on the bulkhead. I just printed out the updated Elite
fuselage section from the MAM site for reference material (as I have never
seen an Elite manual before). Low and behold Murphy supplies a doubler,
FUS-448, for this exact purpose on the Elite. Considering the Elite is
constructed exactly the same as the Rebel in this location, this part should
also be suppled with the Rebel! Some things with MAM I will never
understand!

So maybe anyone still in the building stage of a Rebel fuselage, that
doesn't have access to the raw material, should just buy two FUS-448's from
MAM! But it does look fairly light gauge in the manual, compared to my
suggested .063 (overkill).

DOES ANYONE BUILDING AN ELITE HAVE A VERNIER AND CAN SUPPLY THE THICKNESS OF
THE FUS-448 SUPPLIED IN YOUR KIT, SO WE ALL KNOW. THANKS!!

Regards,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

** To unsubscribe, send e-mail to list-server@dcsol.com with **
** UNSUBSCRIBE MURPHY-REBEL in the message body on a line by itself **
** Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm **
** To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com **
--
David A. Ricker P. Eng.
DARTEC Engineering Inc.
3 Tamarac Drive
Fall River, Nova Scotia
Canada, B2T 1E8
ricker@dbis.ns.ca
Ph. 902-860-0256





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Wayne G. O'Shea

Float point reinforcing

Post by Wayne G. O'Shea » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:22 pm

Thanks David!

As for the tail post mods for the Rebel compared to the Elite. I don't think
these mods are necessary for you as you have the rod style tail spring. I
will look through the Elite Fuselage manual that I printed out yesterday (62
pages) and see if there is anything that would change my opinion.

As for the float point doublers (FUS-448 ELITE):
I have always known that my .063 was a little overkill, but I have misc
scraps of .063 from doing the firewall plates, skis etc, so I will continue
to do as I have in the past with this bulkhead and install a single .063
doubler at each float point. On the Rebel, I put the doubler inside the
forward facing bulkhead of the attach point pair (in between the flanges,
not on the smooth face) as opposed to what I see in the Elite Manual with it
on the smooth face of the rearward bulkhead of the pair.

.040 is most likely all that is required to "Band-Aid" this area to keep the
bulkhead and skin from compressing here. I just don't understand MAM not
upgrading the Rebel kit to include at least this part when they know it is
needed at this location by their own admission of upgrading the Elite here.
But I guess if they started supplying one part, they would end up supplying
a whole lot more thicker panels and extra bulkheads and end up sending you
an Elite kit instead!!!

I have to say that us Rebel "patriots" can buy a LOT of aluminum sheet, buy
a bunch of premade parts from MAM, extra bulkheads at $60cdn each for the
cabin area if we want to and never come close to the extra $4300 US that
the Elite costs over the Rebel kit (after adding the $505 spring gear option
to the Rebel even). Don't get me wrong here, I'm NOT out to insult the Elite
builders, it's all a matter of which airframe you like the most appearance
wise, tri gear adaptable, cantilever or strut brace tail feathers etc.! Some
of us are just hooked on the "old" Rebel!

For the Rebel builders out there that don't have access to the necessary
material to make your own doubler for this area as I have suggested to do
(and you can look in the Elite Fuselage update, on Tech support, to see the
part I am talking about because I don't think I have uploaded a picture of
it BUT WILL) , I would order the part (x2) premade from MAM, for "piece of
mind" when you get her on floats! Not something you can even comprehend
doing after the floor is down and you will live with the puckered side skin
(and eventually cracked bulkhead I bet) until you HAVE to fix it and pull
everything apart. On Howard's we keep watching the pucker grow a little bit
every year. Sooner or later we will have to dig in to her and
repair/reinforce the problem. At least I bolted the float points in on
Howard's (and every other one I've built) so it won't be as daunting a job
to pull it apart and add the doubler when the day comes! I highly suggest
bolting the float points in with AN3 bolts, vs the manuals riveting, for a
better fit and easier assembly/disassembly.

Regards,
Wayne G.O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Ricker" <ricker@dbis.ns.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 1:42 PM
Subject: Re: Float point reinforcing

Hi Wayne

The FUS-448s you were asking about are .040" in the Elite or at least the
one we
have, S/N 583 which I believe is one of the first Elite kits put out.
Perhaps
Bob P. can find out if this is the latest spec & let us know if we should
be
thinking of re-making this part.

Also while we are talking about Rebel/Elite issues, is there any
similarity in
the tail post spar setup in the Elite that would cause concern about
needing to
carry the Rebel fix over to the Elite? I do not have a rebel Manual to
consult
but the Elite manual does not seem to call up the affected P/Ns quoted in
the
SB.

Thanks

Dave R.





"Wayne G. O'Shea" wrote:
Hi Guys and Gals!

Just thought I would post that MAM has updates to various manual
sections in
the tech section of www.murphyair.com for the SR and the Elite.

Also I have been recommending to add a .063 doubler at the rear float
attach
bracket on bulkhead "A" to reinforce it, as every Rebel on floats I've
looked at has started to compact (pucker) the side skin in the location
of
the C shaped cut out on the bulkhead. I just printed out the updated
Elite
fuselage section from the MAM site for reference material (as I have
never
seen an Elite manual before). Low and behold Murphy supplies a doubler,
FUS-448, for this exact purpose on the Elite. Considering the Elite is
constructed exactly the same as the Rebel in this location, this part
should
also be suppled with the Rebel! Some things with MAM I will never
understand!

So maybe anyone still in the building stage of a Rebel fuselage, that
doesn't have access to the raw material, should just buy two FUS-448's
from
MAM! But it does look fairly light gauge in the manual, compared to my
suggested .063 (overkill).

DOES ANYONE BUILDING AN ELITE HAVE A VERNIER AND CAN SUPPLY THE
THICKNESS OF
THE FUS-448 SUPPLIED IN YOUR KIT, SO WE ALL KNOW. THANKS!!

Regards,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

** To unsubscribe, send e-mail to list-server@dcsol.com with
**
** UNSUBSCRIBE MURPHY-REBEL in the message body on a line by itself
**
**
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**
--
David A. Ricker P. Eng.
DARTEC Engineering Inc.
3 Tamarac Drive
Fall River, Nova Scotia
Canada, B2T 1E8
ricker@dbis.ns.ca
Ph. 902-860-0256



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**
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**
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**




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Mike Kimball

Float point reinforcing

Post by Mike Kimball » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:22 pm

Does any of this apply to a Super Rebel?

Mike Kimball
SR#044

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 10:31 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Float point reinforcing


Thanks David!

As for the tail post mods for the Rebel compared to the Elite. I don't think
these mods are necessary for you as you have the rod style tail spring. I
will look through the Elite Fuselage manual that I printed out yesterday (62
pages) and see if there is anything that would change my opinion.

As for the float point doublers (FUS-448 ELITE):
I have always known that my .063 was a little overkill, but I have misc
scraps of .063 from doing the firewall plates, skis etc, so I will continue
to do as I have in the past with this bulkhead and install a single .063
doubler at each float point. On the Rebel, I put the doubler inside the
forward facing bulkhead of the attach point pair (in between the flanges,
not on the smooth face) as opposed to what I see in the Elite Manual with it
on the smooth face of the rearward bulkhead of the pair.

.040 is most likely all that is required to "Band-Aid" this area to keep the
bulkhead and skin from compressing here. I just don't understand MAM not
upgrading the Rebel kit to include at least this part when they know it is
needed at this location by their own admission of upgrading the Elite here.
But I guess if they started supplying one part, they would end up supplying
a whole lot more thicker panels and extra bulkheads and end up sending you
an Elite kit instead!!!

I have to say that us Rebel "patriots" can buy a LOT of aluminum sheet, buy
a bunch of premade parts from MAM, extra bulkheads at $60cdn each for the
cabin area if we want to and never come close to the extra $4300 US that
the Elite costs over the Rebel kit (after adding the $505 spring gear option
to the Rebel even). Don't get me wrong here, I'm NOT out to insult the Elite
builders, it's all a matter of which airframe you like the most appearance
wise, tri gear adaptable, cantilever or strut brace tail feathers etc.! Some
of us are just hooked on the "old" Rebel!

For the Rebel builders out there that don't have access to the necessary
material to make your own doubler for this area as I have suggested to do
(and you can look in the Elite Fuselage update, on Tech support, to see the
part I am talking about because I don't think I have uploaded a picture of
it BUT WILL) , I would order the part (x2) premade from MAM, for "piece of
mind" when you get her on floats! Not something you can even comprehend
doing after the floor is down and you will live with the puckered side skin
(and eventually cracked bulkhead I bet) until you HAVE to fix it and pull
everything apart. On Howard's we keep watching the pucker grow a little bit
every year. Sooner or later we will have to dig in to her and
repair/reinforce the problem. At least I bolted the float points in on
Howard's (and every other one I've built) so it won't be as daunting a job
to pull it apart and add the doubler when the day comes! I highly suggest
bolting the float points in with AN3 bolts, vs the manuals riveting, for a
better fit and easier assembly/disassembly.

Regards,
Wayne G.O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Ricker" <ricker@dbis.ns.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 1:42 PM
Subject: Re: Float point reinforcing

Hi Wayne

The FUS-448s you were asking about are .040" in the Elite or at least the
one we
have, S/N 583 which I believe is one of the first Elite kits put out.
Perhaps
Bob P. can find out if this is the latest spec & let us know if we should
be
thinking of re-making this part.

Also while we are talking about Rebel/Elite issues, is there any
similarity in
the tail post spar setup in the Elite that would cause concern about
needing to
carry the Rebel fix over to the Elite? I do not have a rebel Manual to
consult
but the Elite manual does not seem to call up the affected P/Ns quoted in
the
SB.

Thanks

Dave R.





"Wayne G. O'Shea" wrote:
Hi Guys and Gals!

Just thought I would post that MAM has updates to various manual
sections in
the tech section of www.murphyair.com for the SR and the Elite.

Also I have been recommending to add a .063 doubler at the rear float
attach
bracket on bulkhead "A" to reinforce it, as every Rebel on floats I've
looked at has started to compact (pucker) the side skin in the location
of
the C shaped cut out on the bulkhead. I just printed out the updated
Elite
fuselage section from the MAM site for reference material (as I have
never
seen an Elite manual before). Low and behold Murphy supplies a doubler,
FUS-448, for this exact purpose on the Elite. Considering the Elite is
constructed exactly the same as the Rebel in this location, this part
should
also be suppled with the Rebel! Some things with MAM I will never
understand!

So maybe anyone still in the building stage of a Rebel fuselage, that
doesn't have access to the raw material, should just buy two FUS-448's
from
MAM! But it does look fairly light gauge in the manual, compared to my
suggested .063 (overkill).

DOES ANYONE BUILDING AN ELITE HAVE A VERNIER AND CAN SUPPLY THE
THICKNESS OF
THE FUS-448 SUPPLIED IN YOUR KIT, SO WE ALL KNOW. THANKS!!

Regards,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

** To unsubscribe, send e-mail to list-server@dcsol.com with
**
** UNSUBSCRIBE MURPHY-REBEL in the message body on a line by itself
**
**
** To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
**
--
David A. Ricker P. Eng.
DARTEC Engineering Inc.
3 Tamarac Drive
Fall River, Nova Scotia
Canada, B2T 1E8
ricker@dbis.ns.ca
Ph. 902-860-0256



** To unsubscribe, send e-mail to list-server@dcsol.com with
**
** UNSUBSCRIBE MURPHY-REBEL in the message body on a line by itself
**
**
** To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
**


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Wayne G. O'Shea

Float point reinforcing

Post by Wayne G. O'Shea » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:22 pm

Don't think so Mike, as the SR uses that 2" x .125 square tube for a
hardpoint locator. I believe Peter and Monica reinforced something in that
area though, didn't you P & M?? I remember reading something about beefing
it up!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Kimball" <mkimball@gci.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 2:59 PM
Subject: RE: Float point reinforcing

Does any of this apply to a Super Rebel?

Mike Kimball
SR#044

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 10:31 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Float point reinforcing


Thanks David!

As for the tail post mods for the Rebel compared to the Elite. I don't
think
these mods are necessary for you as you have the rod style tail spring. I
will look through the Elite Fuselage manual that I printed out yesterday
(62
pages) and see if there is anything that would change my opinion.

As for the float point doublers (FUS-448 ELITE):
I have always known that my .063 was a little overkill, but I have misc
scraps of .063 from doing the firewall plates, skis etc, so I will
continue
to do as I have in the past with this bulkhead and install a single .063
doubler at each float point. On the Rebel, I put the doubler inside the
forward facing bulkhead of the attach point pair (in between the flanges,
not on the smooth face) as opposed to what I see in the Elite Manual with
it
on the smooth face of the rearward bulkhead of the pair.

.040 is most likely all that is required to "Band-Aid" this area to keep
the
bulkhead and skin from compressing here. I just don't understand MAM not
upgrading the Rebel kit to include at least this part when they know it is
needed at this location by their own admission of upgrading the Elite
here.
But I guess if they started supplying one part, they would end up
supplying
a whole lot more thicker panels and extra bulkheads and end up sending you
an Elite kit instead!!!

I have to say that us Rebel "patriots" can buy a LOT of aluminum sheet,
buy
a bunch of premade parts from MAM, extra bulkheads at $60cdn each for the
cabin area if we want to and never come close to the extra $4300 US that
the Elite costs over the Rebel kit (after adding the $505 spring gear
option
to the Rebel even). Don't get me wrong here, I'm NOT out to insult the
Elite
builders, it's all a matter of which airframe you like the most appearance
wise, tri gear adaptable, cantilever or strut brace tail feathers etc.!
Some
of us are just hooked on the "old" Rebel!

For the Rebel builders out there that don't have access to the necessary
material to make your own doubler for this area as I have suggested to do
(and you can look in the Elite Fuselage update, on Tech support, to see
the
part I am talking about because I don't think I have uploaded a picture of
it BUT WILL) , I would order the part (x2) premade from MAM, for "piece of
mind" when you get her on floats! Not something you can even comprehend
doing after the floor is down and you will live with the puckered side
skin
(and eventually cracked bulkhead I bet) until you HAVE to fix it and pull
everything apart. On Howard's we keep watching the pucker grow a little
bit
every year. Sooner or later we will have to dig in to her and
repair/reinforce the problem. At least I bolted the float points in on
Howard's (and every other one I've built) so it won't be as daunting a job
to pull it apart and add the doubler when the day comes! I highly suggest
bolting the float points in with AN3 bolts, vs the manuals riveting, for a
better fit and easier assembly/disassembly.

Regards,
Wayne G.O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Ricker" <ricker@dbis.ns.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 1:42 PM
Subject: Re: Float point reinforcing

Hi Wayne

The FUS-448s you were asking about are .040" in the Elite or at least
the
one we
have, S/N 583 which I believe is one of the first Elite kits put out.
Perhaps
Bob P. can find out if this is the latest spec & let us know if we
should
be
thinking of re-making this part.

Also while we are talking about Rebel/Elite issues, is there any
similarity in
the tail post spar setup in the Elite that would cause concern about
needing to
carry the Rebel fix over to the Elite? I do not have a rebel Manual to
consult
but the Elite manual does not seem to call up the affected P/Ns quoted
in
the
SB.

Thanks

Dave R.





"Wayne G. O'Shea" wrote:
Hi Guys and Gals!

Just thought I would post that MAM has updates to various manual
sections in
the tech section of www.murphyair.com for the SR and the Elite.

Also I have been recommending to add a .063 doubler at the rear float
attach
bracket on bulkhead "A" to reinforce it, as every Rebel on floats I've
looked at has started to compact (pucker) the side skin in the
location
of
the C shaped cut out on the bulkhead. I just printed out the updated
Elite
fuselage section from the MAM site for reference material (as I have
never
seen an Elite manual before). Low and behold Murphy supplies a
doubler,
FUS-448, for this exact purpose on the Elite. Considering the Elite is
constructed exactly the same as the Rebel in this location, this part
should
also be suppled with the Rebel! Some things with MAM I will never
understand!

So maybe anyone still in the building stage of a Rebel fuselage, that
doesn't have access to the raw material, should just buy two FUS-448's
from
MAM! But it does look fairly light gauge in the manual, compared to my
suggested .063 (overkill).

DOES ANYONE BUILDING AN ELITE HAVE A VERNIER AND CAN SUPPLY THE
THICKNESS OF
THE FUS-448 SUPPLIED IN YOUR KIT, SO WE ALL KNOW. THANKS!!

Regards,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

** To unsubscribe, send e-mail to list-server@dcsol.com with
**
** UNSUBSCRIBE MURPHY-REBEL in the message body on a line by itself
**
** Archives located at
http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
**
** To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
**
--
David A. Ricker P. Eng.
DARTEC Engineering Inc.
3 Tamarac Drive
Fall River, Nova Scotia
Canada, B2T 1E8
ricker@dbis.ns.ca
Ph. 902-860-0256



** To unsubscribe, send e-mail to list-server@dcsol.com with
**
** UNSUBSCRIBE MURPHY-REBEL in the message body on a line by itself
**
**
** To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
**


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**
**
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**

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**




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Mike Kimball

Float point reinforcing

Post by Mike Kimball » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:22 pm

I believe they might have been the ones that said they copied the main gear
drag load modification and did the same thing at the rear float attach.
Seemed like a good idea so I did the same thing. Thanks Wayne!

Mike Kimball
SR#044

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 11:05 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Float point reinforcing


Don't think so Mike, as the SR uses that 2" x .125 square tube for a
hardpoint locator. I believe Peter and Monica reinforced something in that
area though, didn't you P & M?? I remember reading something about beefing
it up!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Kimball" <mkimball@gci.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 2:59 PM
Subject: RE: Float point reinforcing

Does any of this apply to a Super Rebel?

Mike Kimball
SR#044

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 10:31 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Float point reinforcing


Thanks David!

As for the tail post mods for the Rebel compared to the Elite. I don't
think
these mods are necessary for you as you have the rod style tail spring. I
will look through the Elite Fuselage manual that I printed out yesterday
(62
pages) and see if there is anything that would change my opinion.

As for the float point doublers (FUS-448 ELITE):
I have always known that my .063 was a little overkill, but I have misc
scraps of .063 from doing the firewall plates, skis etc, so I will
continue
to do as I have in the past with this bulkhead and install a single .063
doubler at each float point. On the Rebel, I put the doubler inside the
forward facing bulkhead of the attach point pair (in between the flanges,
not on the smooth face) as opposed to what I see in the Elite Manual with
it
on the smooth face of the rearward bulkhead of the pair.

.040 is most likely all that is required to "Band-Aid" this area to keep
the
bulkhead and skin from compressing here. I just don't understand MAM not
upgrading the Rebel kit to include at least this part when they know it is
needed at this location by their own admission of upgrading the Elite
here.
But I guess if they started supplying one part, they would end up
supplying
a whole lot more thicker panels and extra bulkheads and end up sending you
an Elite kit instead!!!

I have to say that us Rebel "patriots" can buy a LOT of aluminum sheet,
buy
a bunch of premade parts from MAM, extra bulkheads at $60cdn each for the
cabin area if we want to and never come close to the extra $4300 US that
the Elite costs over the Rebel kit (after adding the $505 spring gear
option
to the Rebel even). Don't get me wrong here, I'm NOT out to insult the
Elite
builders, it's all a matter of which airframe you like the most appearance
wise, tri gear adaptable, cantilever or strut brace tail feathers etc.!
Some
of us are just hooked on the "old" Rebel!

For the Rebel builders out there that don't have access to the necessary
material to make your own doubler for this area as I have suggested to do
(and you can look in the Elite Fuselage update, on Tech support, to see
the
part I am talking about because I don't think I have uploaded a picture of
it BUT WILL) , I would order the part (x2) premade from MAM, for "piece of
mind" when you get her on floats! Not something you can even comprehend
doing after the floor is down and you will live with the puckered side
skin
(and eventually cracked bulkhead I bet) until you HAVE to fix it and pull
everything apart. On Howard's we keep watching the pucker grow a little
bit
every year. Sooner or later we will have to dig in to her and
repair/reinforce the problem. At least I bolted the float points in on
Howard's (and every other one I've built) so it won't be as daunting a job
to pull it apart and add the doubler when the day comes! I highly suggest
bolting the float points in with AN3 bolts, vs the manuals riveting, for a
better fit and easier assembly/disassembly.

Regards,
Wayne G.O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Ricker" <ricker@dbis.ns.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 1:42 PM
Subject: Re: Float point reinforcing

Hi Wayne

The FUS-448s you were asking about are .040" in the Elite or at least
the
one we
have, S/N 583 which I believe is one of the first Elite kits put out.
Perhaps
Bob P. can find out if this is the latest spec & let us know if we
should
be
thinking of re-making this part.

Also while we are talking about Rebel/Elite issues, is there any
similarity in
the tail post spar setup in the Elite that would cause concern about
needing to
carry the Rebel fix over to the Elite? I do not have a rebel Manual to
consult
but the Elite manual does not seem to call up the affected P/Ns quoted
in
the
SB.

Thanks

Dave R.





"Wayne G. O'Shea" wrote:
Hi Guys and Gals!

Just thought I would post that MAM has updates to various manual
sections in
the tech section of www.murphyair.com for the SR and the Elite.

Also I have been recommending to add a .063 doubler at the rear float
attach
bracket on bulkhead "A" to reinforce it, as every Rebel on floats I've
looked at has started to compact (pucker) the side skin in the
location
of
the C shaped cut out on the bulkhead. I just printed out the updated
Elite
fuselage section from the MAM site for reference material (as I have
never
seen an Elite manual before). Low and behold Murphy supplies a
doubler,
FUS-448, for this exact purpose on the Elite. Considering the Elite is
constructed exactly the same as the Rebel in this location, this part
should
also be suppled with the Rebel! Some things with MAM I will never
understand!

So maybe anyone still in the building stage of a Rebel fuselage, that
doesn't have access to the raw material, should just buy two FUS-448's
from
MAM! But it does look fairly light gauge in the manual, compared to my
suggested .063 (overkill).

DOES ANYONE BUILDING AN ELITE HAVE A VERNIER AND CAN SUPPLY THE
THICKNESS OF
THE FUS-448 SUPPLIED IN YOUR KIT, SO WE ALL KNOW. THANKS!!

Regards,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

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--
David A. Ricker P. Eng.
DARTEC Engineering Inc.
3 Tamarac Drive
Fall River, Nova Scotia
Canada, B2T 1E8
ricker@dbis.ns.ca
Ph. 902-860-0256



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capete@golden.net

Float point reinforcing

Post by capete@golden.net » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:22 pm

Correct Mike - we made the same mod on the rear attach float points as
MAM originially wanted on the front. Now with the 3500 mod the front
area is beefed up MUCH more.

Peter & Monica
SR003




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Walter Klatt

Float point reinforcing

Post by Walter Klatt » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:22 pm

Wayne, this pucker factor you mention with Rebels on floats, have you seen
this with both amphib and straight floats? Is it caused mostly by rough
water landings/take-offs, or hard landings on land or rough grass strips?

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 11:46 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Float point reinforcing


Hi Guys and Gals!

Just thought I would post that MAM has updates to various manual sections in
the tech section of www.murphyair.com for the SR and the Elite.

Also I have been recommending to add a .063 doubler at the rear float attach
bracket on bulkhead "A" to reinforce it, as every Rebel on floats I've
looked at has started to compact (pucker) the side skin in the location of
the C shaped cut out on the bulkhead. I just printed out the updated Elite
fuselage section from the MAM site for reference material (as I have never
seen an Elite manual before). Low and behold Murphy supplies a doubler,
FUS-448, for this exact purpose on the Elite. Considering the Elite is
constructed exactly the same as the Rebel in this location, this part should
also be suppled with the Rebel! Some things with MAM I will never
understand!

So maybe anyone still in the building stage of a Rebel fuselage, that
doesn't have access to the raw material, should just buy two FUS-448's from
MAM! But it does look fairly light gauge in the manual, compared to my
suggested .063 (overkill).

DOES ANYONE BUILDING AN ELITE HAVE A VERNIER AND CAN SUPPLY THE THICKNESS OF
THE FUS-448 SUPPLIED IN YOUR KIT, SO WE ALL KNOW. THANKS!!

Regards,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca




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Wayne G. O'Shea

Float point reinforcing

Post by Wayne G. O'Shea » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:22 pm

Walter, Water is harder than land!! Ever fallen on water skis at 50MPH? I
think it's worse than the ride I took off the back of a motorcycle at 70MPH,
on pavement, when I was younger!

Seriously, when you land on water there is absolutely NO shock absorbers
(unless you are flying Full Lotus or Zenair's 701 on floats that are mounted
to the gear leaf spring). On land at least you have the tires, rubber pucks,
etc and the give of the grass to cushion the "fall". From that, I would say
that the same rate of decent landing is going to cause more "damage" on
water than land.

All the Rebels I have viewed are flown on Amphibs, but I suspect that the
most compression damage was done in the water. I know Howard's first Fus-25
area buckle came on the very first test flight when he <MADE> Bob let him
land out in VERY rough water, because he just had to know how it would
handle it!

I suppose another way of "fixing" the area, at first sign of compression,
would be an external .063 doubler plate similar to the way you do the strip
on the inside of the double float bulkheads (and also spread out onto the
wrap seam so it looks like a plus sign that's well radius'd between the
"legs". Would be easier to do than pulling the floor apart, but require some
paint touch up! That said, maybe I will do that to Howard's before it hits
the water again!

Regards,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@home.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 10:18 PM
Subject: RE: Float point reinforcing

Wayne, this pucker factor you mention with Rebels on floats, have you seen
this with both amphib and straight floats? Is it caused mostly by rough
water landings/take-offs, or hard landings on land or rough grass strips?

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 11:46 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Float point reinforcing


Hi Guys and Gals!

Just thought I would post that MAM has updates to various manual sections
in
the tech section of www.murphyair.com for the SR and the Elite.

Also I have been recommending to add a .063 doubler at the rear float
attach
bracket on bulkhead "A" to reinforce it, as every Rebel on floats I've
looked at has started to compact (pucker) the side skin in the location of
the C shaped cut out on the bulkhead. I just printed out the updated Elite
fuselage section from the MAM site for reference material (as I have never
seen an Elite manual before). Low and behold Murphy supplies a doubler,
FUS-448, for this exact purpose on the Elite. Considering the Elite is
constructed exactly the same as the Rebel in this location, this part
should
also be suppled with the Rebel! Some things with MAM I will never
understand!

So maybe anyone still in the building stage of a Rebel fuselage, that
doesn't have access to the raw material, should just buy two FUS-448's
from
MAM! But it does look fairly light gauge in the manual, compared to my
suggested .063 (overkill).

DOES ANYONE BUILDING AN ELITE HAVE A VERNIER AND CAN SUPPLY THE THICKNESS
OF
THE FUS-448 SUPPLIED IN YOUR KIT, SO WE ALL KNOW. THANKS!!

Regards,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca




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**
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**
**
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**


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Walter Klatt

Float point reinforcing

Post by Walter Klatt » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:22 pm

Thanks Wayne. Sounds like another area that I will need to beef up on my
Rebel. So far I have not landed in any real rough water, only enough to
rattle my teeth a bit, but no hard poundings. Like you said, though, opening
up that floor is no trivial exercise, and then I will have to drill out
those big rivets. Sure hope they weren't the stainless steel ones... I like
your idea of using AN3 bolts instead.

Amazing what I keep finding out on this mailing list...

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 8:27 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Float point reinforcing


Walter, Water is harder than land!! Ever fallen on water skis at 50MPH? I
think it's worse than the ride I took off the back of a motorcycle at 70MPH,
on pavement, when I was younger!

Seriously, when you land on water there is absolutely NO shock absorbers
(unless you are flying Full Lotus or Zenair's 701 on floats that are mounted
to the gear leaf spring). On land at least you have the tires, rubber pucks,
etc and the give of the grass to cushion the "fall". From that, I would say
that the same rate of decent landing is going to cause more "damage" on
water than land.

All the Rebels I have viewed are flown on Amphibs, but I suspect that the
most compression damage was done in the water. I know Howard's first Fus-25
area buckle came on the very first test flight when he <MADE> Bob let him
land out in VERY rough water, because he just had to know how it would
handle it!

I suppose another way of "fixing" the area, at first sign of compression,
would be an external .063 doubler plate similar to the way you do the strip
on the inside of the double float bulkheads (and also spread out onto the
wrap seam so it looks like a plus sign that's well radius'd between the
"legs". Would be easier to do than pulling the floor apart, but require some
paint touch up! That said, maybe I will do that to Howard's before it hits
the water again!

Regards,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@home.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 10:18 PM
Subject: RE: Float point reinforcing

Wayne, this pucker factor you mention with Rebels on floats, have you seen
this with both amphib and straight floats? Is it caused mostly by rough
water landings/take-offs, or hard landings on land or rough grass strips?

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 11:46 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Float point reinforcing


Hi Guys and Gals!

Just thought I would post that MAM has updates to various manual sections
in
the tech section of www.murphyair.com for the SR and the Elite.

Also I have been recommending to add a .063 doubler at the rear float
attach
bracket on bulkhead "A" to reinforce it, as every Rebel on floats I've
looked at has started to compact (pucker) the side skin in the location of
the C shaped cut out on the bulkhead. I just printed out the updated Elite
fuselage section from the MAM site for reference material (as I have never
seen an Elite manual before). Low and behold Murphy supplies a doubler,
FUS-448, for this exact purpose on the Elite. Considering the Elite is
constructed exactly the same as the Rebel in this location, this part
should
also be suppled with the Rebel! Some things with MAM I will never
understand!

So maybe anyone still in the building stage of a Rebel fuselage, that
doesn't have access to the raw material, should just buy two FUS-448's
from
MAM! But it does look fairly light gauge in the manual, compared to my
suggested .063 (overkill).

DOES ANYONE BUILDING AN ELITE HAVE A VERNIER AND CAN SUPPLY THE THICKNESS
OF
THE FUS-448 SUPPLIED IN YOUR KIT, SO WE ALL KNOW. THANKS!!

Regards,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca




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klehman

Float point reinforcing

Post by klehman » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:22 pm

Well that was my theory too. Even without the floor installed it was
going to be almost impossible to install those pieces without doing
collateral damage so I went with external doublers. Trouble is, four
panels meet at that corner and it is a compound curve to boot. To get it
right I used a two piece doubler with another two spacers underneath and
one other small spacer. It turned out OK but I'm sure somebody will look
at it and think that there was damage there that has been repaired. Way
easier to do Wayne's mod during assembly. If you are going to do it
externally, I recommend at least doing it before installing the floor if
possible, rather than waiting.
Ken

"Wayne G. O'Shea" wrote:
snip
I suppose another way of "fixing" the area, at first sign of compression,
would be an external .063 doubler plate similar to the way you do the strip
on the inside of the double float bulkheads (and also spread out onto the
wrap seam so it looks like a plus sign that's well radius'd between the
"legs". Would be easier to do than pulling the floor apart, but require some
paint touch up! That said, maybe I will do that to Howard's before it hits
the water again!



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