Well Bruce,
My abilities to describe are not that good, but my interfacing with a computer is worse so I'll try the written method. I guess the easiest way to describe the fairing is to say if you were to take a piece of duct tape on the lower firewall bottom of fusala
ge and wrap it up and over the firewall flange and motor mount tube(if conical mount with tube horizontal all the way across the bottom) and up about 2" on the fire wall. I just made the metal fairing fit around anything in the way, as that area was still mes
sed up air flow. IMHO Curt N97MR
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Oil cooler
-
Legeorgen
Oil cooler
Bob,
Does not the throttle bracket and gascolator attach at the bottom 3" of the
firewall? At least the MAM manual suggest mounting them there.
Bruce G
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Does not the throttle bracket and gascolator attach at the bottom 3" of the
firewall? At least the MAM manual suggest mounting them there.
Bruce G
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Legeorgen
Oil cooler
Curt,
I get the picture. I have a dynofocal mount so the engine mount is not a
factor as with your conical. With my 0320 dynofocal mount the manual calls
out for the throttle and mixture mounting bracket as well as the gascolator
to be mounted at the bottom of the firewall. It must be different for the
conical. Where does the gascolator mount on the conical installation so it
can be drained from underneath? It sounds like the conical engine mount has a
lower cross brace that would be in the way of mounting the gascolator at the
bottom of the firewall.
Bruce G
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I get the picture. I have a dynofocal mount so the engine mount is not a
factor as with your conical. With my 0320 dynofocal mount the manual calls
out for the throttle and mixture mounting bracket as well as the gascolator
to be mounted at the bottom of the firewall. It must be different for the
conical. Where does the gascolator mount on the conical installation so it
can be drained from underneath? It sounds like the conical engine mount has a
lower cross brace that would be in the way of mounting the gascolator at the
bottom of the firewall.
Bruce G
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Walter Klatt
Oil cooler
Bruce, I have a conical mount and the cross tube is right close to the
firewall, just inside the firewall lip, so does not interfere with the
gascolator mounting. The throttle/mixture bracket mounts to the engine at
the back of the oil pan, not to the firewall. It is a tight fit with the
conical mount O320 because the carb is mounted further back on the engine,
but it works.
-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Legeorgen@cs.com
Sent: June 4, 2001 7:26 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Oil cooler
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Curt,
I get the picture. I have a dynofocal mount so the engine mount is not a
factor as with your conical. With my 0320 dynofocal mount the manual calls
out for the throttle and mixture mounting bracket as well as the gascolator
to be mounted at the bottom of the firewall. It must be different for the
conical. Where does the gascolator mount on the conical installation so it
can be drained from underneath? It sounds like the conical engine mount has
a
lower cross brace that would be in the way of mounting the gascolator at the
bottom of the firewall.
Bruce G
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firewall, just inside the firewall lip, so does not interfere with the
gascolator mounting. The throttle/mixture bracket mounts to the engine at
the back of the oil pan, not to the firewall. It is a tight fit with the
conical mount O320 because the carb is mounted further back on the engine,
but it works.
-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Legeorgen@cs.com
Sent: June 4, 2001 7:26 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Oil cooler
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Curt,
I get the picture. I have a dynofocal mount so the engine mount is not a
factor as with your conical. With my 0320 dynofocal mount the manual calls
out for the throttle and mixture mounting bracket as well as the gascolator
to be mounted at the bottom of the firewall. It must be different for the
conical. Where does the gascolator mount on the conical installation so it
can be drained from underneath? It sounds like the conical engine mount has
a
lower cross brace that would be in the way of mounting the gascolator at the
bottom of the firewall.
Bruce G
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rebelair
Oil cooler
Hi There
Can you let me know what you are experiencing re: CHTs & EGTs and what you
are using as a maximum permissable temp. etc.
Thanks
Brian #328R
-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Walter Klatt
Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2001 9:36 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Oil cooler
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Sounds like you pretty close on your floats. I don't expect to be ready with
mine for at least a couple more months.
Yes, I think I will try fairing the bottom of the firewall, too. Thanks for
the tip on duct tape. I also have the conical mount cross tube. I still
could use another 25 degree cooling on the CHT's.
I take the temps from the holes on the bottom of the cylinders. I use a KSA
CHT/EGT gauge.
-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Rebflyer@aol.com
Sent: June 2, 2001 5:33 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Oil cooler
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Hi Walter,
Nice that your flying again! Hope that we both get to experience the
amphibs before to long. Mine are now nearing paint, as they have been fitted
to the aircraft.
You might think about the fairing out of the firewall pretty seriously. It
made 25deg diff. in cht's. To try it out before the hard work, just try it
with duct tape. I went up 2" from the bottom of the fuse, but I also was
covering the cross tube on our con
ical mount.
This might sound like a odd question, but where are you picking up your
temps? From the factory style probe hole in the cylinder? From a
thermocouple under the sparkplug? Top or bottom plug? Every one of these
positions are different.
Good luck in your experimenting! Curt N97MR
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Can you let me know what you are experiencing re: CHTs & EGTs and what you
are using as a maximum permissable temp. etc.
Thanks
Brian #328R
-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Walter Klatt
Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2001 9:36 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Oil cooler
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Sounds like you pretty close on your floats. I don't expect to be ready with
mine for at least a couple more months.
Yes, I think I will try fairing the bottom of the firewall, too. Thanks for
the tip on duct tape. I also have the conical mount cross tube. I still
could use another 25 degree cooling on the CHT's.
I take the temps from the holes on the bottom of the cylinders. I use a KSA
CHT/EGT gauge.
-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Rebflyer@aol.com
Sent: June 2, 2001 5:33 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Oil cooler
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Hi Walter,
Nice that your flying again! Hope that we both get to experience the
amphibs before to long. Mine are now nearing paint, as they have been fitted
to the aircraft.
You might think about the fairing out of the firewall pretty seriously. It
made 25deg diff. in cht's. To try it out before the hard work, just try it
with duct tape. I went up 2" from the bottom of the fuse, but I also was
covering the cross tube on our con
ical mount.
This might sound like a odd question, but where are you picking up your
temps? From the factory style probe hole in the cylinder? From a
thermocouple under the sparkplug? Top or bottom plug? Every one of these
positions are different.
Good luck in your experimenting! Curt N97MR
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rebelair
Oil cooler
Hi Bruce
Just to add to what Curt said, it looks a little like an upside question
mark (?). The vertical part of rivets to your firewall but you what a piece
of metal with a radius in it so the airflow can follow smoothly around the
lip and flow straight back after rounding the lip.
I have the speed cowl & I needed this kind of trick to keep everything cool.
All is working well.
Hope that helps.
Brian #328R
-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Rebflyer@aol.com
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 5:21 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Oil cooler
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Well Bruce,
My abilities to describe are not that good, but my interfacing with a
computer is worse so I'll try the written method. I guess the easiest way to
describe the fairing is to say if you were to take a piece of duct tape on
the lower firewall bottom of fusala
ge and wrap it up and over the firewall flange and motor mount tube(if
conical mount with tube horizontal all the way across the bottom) and up
about 2" on the fire wall. I just made the metal fairing fit around anything
in the way, as that area was still mes
sed up air flow. IMHO Curt N97MR
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Just to add to what Curt said, it looks a little like an upside question
mark (?). The vertical part of rivets to your firewall but you what a piece
of metal with a radius in it so the airflow can follow smoothly around the
lip and flow straight back after rounding the lip.
I have the speed cowl & I needed this kind of trick to keep everything cool.
All is working well.
Hope that helps.
Brian #328R
-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Rebflyer@aol.com
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 5:21 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Oil cooler
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*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Well Bruce,
My abilities to describe are not that good, but my interfacing with a
computer is worse so I'll try the written method. I guess the easiest way to
describe the fairing is to say if you were to take a piece of duct tape on
the lower firewall bottom of fusala
ge and wrap it up and over the firewall flange and motor mount tube(if
conical mount with tube horizontal all the way across the bottom) and up
about 2" on the fire wall. I just made the metal fairing fit around anything
in the way, as that area was still mes
sed up air flow. IMHO Curt N97MR
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Walter Klatt
Oil cooler
Currently, I am running about 375 - 400 in cruise for CHT's for the 2 rear
cylinders and about 300 - 325 for the front ones. My engine is still not
fully broken in (15 Hours since TBO), so it might run a little cooler after
that. I know 500 is the red line for Lycomings, but I back off the throttle
when I get to 450.
I don't really look at my EGT's for absolute numbers, as they vary with
throttle setting and RPM's, etc. I just use them for leaning. I line up the
pointers at the bottom and lean until one cylinder peaks and then back off
slightly.
-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
rebelair
Sent: June 4, 2001 8:32 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Oil cooler
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Hi There
Can you let me know what you are experiencing re: CHTs & EGTs and what you
are using as a maximum permissable temp. etc.
Thanks
Brian #328R
-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Walter Klatt
Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2001 9:36 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Oil cooler
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
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*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Sounds like you pretty close on your floats. I don't expect to be ready with
mine for at least a couple more months.
Yes, I think I will try fairing the bottom of the firewall, too. Thanks for
the tip on duct tape. I also have the conical mount cross tube. I still
could use another 25 degree cooling on the CHT's.
I take the temps from the holes on the bottom of the cylinders. I use a KSA
CHT/EGT gauge.
-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Rebflyer@aol.com
Sent: June 2, 2001 5:33 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Oil cooler
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
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username: rebel password: builder
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Hi Walter,
Nice that your flying again! Hope that we both get to experience the
amphibs before to long. Mine are now nearing paint, as they have been fitted
to the aircraft.
You might think about the fairing out of the firewall pretty seriously. It
made 25deg diff. in cht's. To try it out before the hard work, just try it
with duct tape. I went up 2" from the bottom of the fuse, but I also was
covering the cross tube on our con
ical mount.
This might sound like a odd question, but where are you picking up your
temps? From the factory style probe hole in the cylinder? From a
thermocouple under the sparkplug? Top or bottom plug? Every one of these
positions are different.
Good luck in your experimenting! Curt N97MR
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cylinders and about 300 - 325 for the front ones. My engine is still not
fully broken in (15 Hours since TBO), so it might run a little cooler after
that. I know 500 is the red line for Lycomings, but I back off the throttle
when I get to 450.
I don't really look at my EGT's for absolute numbers, as they vary with
throttle setting and RPM's, etc. I just use them for leaning. I line up the
pointers at the bottom and lean until one cylinder peaks and then back off
slightly.
-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
rebelair
Sent: June 4, 2001 8:32 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Oil cooler
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
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*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Hi There
Can you let me know what you are experiencing re: CHTs & EGTs and what you
are using as a maximum permissable temp. etc.
Thanks
Brian #328R
-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Walter Klatt
Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2001 9:36 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Oil cooler
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
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*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Sounds like you pretty close on your floats. I don't expect to be ready with
mine for at least a couple more months.
Yes, I think I will try fairing the bottom of the firewall, too. Thanks for
the tip on duct tape. I also have the conical mount cross tube. I still
could use another 25 degree cooling on the CHT's.
I take the temps from the holes on the bottom of the cylinders. I use a KSA
CHT/EGT gauge.
-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Rebflyer@aol.com
Sent: June 2, 2001 5:33 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Oil cooler
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
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*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Hi Walter,
Nice that your flying again! Hope that we both get to experience the
amphibs before to long. Mine are now nearing paint, as they have been fitted
to the aircraft.
You might think about the fairing out of the firewall pretty seriously. It
made 25deg diff. in cht's. To try it out before the hard work, just try it
with duct tape. I went up 2" from the bottom of the fuse, but I also was
covering the cross tube on our con
ical mount.
This might sound like a odd question, but where are you picking up your
temps? From the factory style probe hole in the cylinder? From a
thermocouple under the sparkplug? Top or bottom plug? Every one of these
positions are different.
Good luck in your experimenting! Curt N97MR
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Bob Patterson
Oil cooler
Hi Bruce !
They do, and you can cut out around them, leaving a bit under
them to fair the lip. ........ or, possibly relocate them, for those
who are still building ! ;-)
.......bobp
---------------------------------orig.--------------------------------
At 10:03 PM 6/4/01 EDT, you wrote:
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They do, and you can cut out around them, leaving a bit under
them to fair the lip. ........ or, possibly relocate them, for those
who are still building ! ;-)
.......bobp
---------------------------------orig.--------------------------------
At 10:03 PM 6/4/01 EDT, you wrote:
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Bob,
Does not the throttle bracket and gascolator attach at the bottom 3" of the
firewall? At least the MAM manual suggest mounting them there.
Bruce G
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Legeorgen
Oil cooler
Brian,
Thanks to you everyone for the tip about exiting the hot air from the engine
compartment. It was timely advice and I will employ it. I just wish I had it
done so I could FLY it out and show off. Well, you know what I mean.
Bruce G
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Thanks to you everyone for the tip about exiting the hot air from the engine
compartment. It was timely advice and I will employ it. I just wish I had it
done so I could FLY it out and show off. Well, you know what I mean.
Bruce G
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Al & Deb Paxhia
Oil cooler
The oil cooler discussion has started to make me think I may have a problem. My SR has the IO540 and the oil cooler is too large to mount on the back of the baffling. Murphy used two smaller coolers, one on each side. I mounted one large cooler on the inside of the cowling, flush against the left side. Ram air comes from a 3" scat duct from the front of cyl #1. The air goes to a box on the back of the cooler and exits through the side of the cowl. My thinking was to get the coolest ram air possible and exit that air with out adding any pressure to the lower side of the engine. My question is, will the air flow around the outside of the cowl keep air from exiting the cooler? Has anyone experienced this type of installation? Do you think I need to break up that air flow? If so how?
Al Paxhia
Al Paxhia
-
Rebflyer
Oil cooler
HI Bruce,
So many things fwfoward are really your choice it is often best to leave
yourself a little extra where you can to give yourself the room needed . Even
though I put my gascalator through where it was SUGGESTED by MAM I would
have liked to have moved it off to one side slightly to help with the room
in that area. So I could only suggest that you run your fuel supply lines a
little long on the inside, then trim them and run the lines through where it
gives you the best access. Just a thought, (and maybe stir a little
controversy), why even use a 1930's era gascolator? Why not just a filter?
If you're on wheels the lowest point is the suggested drain valves under the
cabin. Maybe it's needed if on floats, but I'm not totally convinced. Sure
would have helped in that area where you have to dodge Throttle, carb heat
and mixture cables along with exhaust pipes and motor mounts. Then try to
make the area as clean as you can for air movement. Aren't experimentals fun?!
So, the best I can think of at this time, is find the best spot for your
gascalator, the make hole through. IMHO Curt N97MR And Do keep at it, it's
worth it!
So many things fwfoward are really your choice it is often best to leave
yourself a little extra where you can to give yourself the room needed . Even
though I put my gascalator through where it was SUGGESTED by MAM I would
have liked to have moved it off to one side slightly to help with the room
in that area. So I could only suggest that you run your fuel supply lines a
little long on the inside, then trim them and run the lines through where it
gives you the best access. Just a thought, (and maybe stir a little
controversy), why even use a 1930's era gascolator? Why not just a filter?
If you're on wheels the lowest point is the suggested drain valves under the
cabin. Maybe it's needed if on floats, but I'm not totally convinced. Sure
would have helped in that area where you have to dodge Throttle, carb heat
and mixture cables along with exhaust pipes and motor mounts. Then try to
make the area as clean as you can for air movement. Aren't experimentals fun?!
So, the best I can think of at this time, is find the best spot for your
gascalator, the make hole through. IMHO Curt N97MR And Do keep at it, it's
worth it!
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Legeorgen
Oil cooler
Curt,
Thanks for the tips. I have not cut any holes in the firewall but I have hung
the engine temporarily and marked the firewall at least 10 times, tying to
determinate best locations for gascolator, oil cooler, cables, regulators,
solenoids and cabin heat locations etc.
I have a question for you boys up north. Do you find a single heat muff
enough to warm your feet or is two heat muffs needed to heat the cabin
comfortably?
How important is it to pipe cooling air to your mags? Or even the alternator
if you seal off the forward engine with baffles?
Bruce G 357R
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Thanks for the tips. I have not cut any holes in the firewall but I have hung
the engine temporarily and marked the firewall at least 10 times, tying to
determinate best locations for gascolator, oil cooler, cables, regulators,
solenoids and cabin heat locations etc.
I have a question for you boys up north. Do you find a single heat muff
enough to warm your feet or is two heat muffs needed to heat the cabin
comfortably?
How important is it to pipe cooling air to your mags? Or even the alternator
if you seal off the forward engine with baffles?
Bruce G 357R
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klehman
Oil cooler
Hi Curt
I'm usually good for wading into it. My understanding is that you don't
want a filter on the Lycoming. You do
want something that can store a few ounces of water though. I believe
the theory is that any dirt that gets through the screens should also be
able to get through the carb without plugging it.
Automotive paper filters are frowned upon bigtime because of their
tendancy to plug
in the presence of water. This becomes a problem with electronic fuel
injectors that seem to need a better than 10 micron filter. Paper is
more effective than even fine screens for catching very small metal
slivers that can cause injector problems and yet the inspectors don't
like to see them.
Ken
Rebflyer@aol.com wrote:
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I'm usually good for wading into it. My understanding is that you don't
want a filter on the Lycoming. You do
want something that can store a few ounces of water though. I believe
the theory is that any dirt that gets through the screens should also be
able to get through the carb without plugging it.
Automotive paper filters are frowned upon bigtime because of their
tendancy to plug
in the presence of water. This becomes a problem with electronic fuel
injectors that seem to need a better than 10 micron filter. Paper is
more effective than even fine screens for catching very small metal
slivers that can cause injector problems and yet the inspectors don't
like to see them.
Ken
Rebflyer@aol.com wrote:
snip
Just a thought, (and maybe stir a little
controversy), why even use a 1930's era gascolator? Why not just a
filter?
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Rebflyer
Oil cooler
Hi Bruce,
Well I have the 2 heat muffs in series and they will roast you out in
15deg F. The cable is usually only pulled just enough to crack it and after
the engine is up to temp it's toasty.
As for the air to mag thing, I have had no problem yet with my 1 mag and
the electronic seems to also be fine. Also the front is well baffled and the
altenator shows no signs of problems. I guess time will tell. Curt N97MR
Well I have the 2 heat muffs in series and they will roast you out in
15deg F. The cable is usually only pulled just enough to crack it and after
the engine is up to temp it's toasty.
As for the air to mag thing, I have had no problem yet with my 1 mag and
the electronic seems to also be fine. Also the front is well baffled and the
altenator shows no signs of problems. I guess time will tell. Curt N97MR
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Bob Patterson
Oil cooler
Hi Al !
It might be a good idea to put a scoop facing back over the
front of the opening in the cowl. That would break the airflow up
and create a little suction to help the cooler. Could be just bent-up
sheet, maybe 3/4" high ...
......bobp
-------------------------------orig.---------------------------------------
At 10:03 PM 6/5/01 -0700, you wrote:
back of the baffling. Murphy used two smaller coolers, one on each side. I
mounted one large cooler on the inside of the cowling, flush against the
left side. Ram air comes from a 3" scat duct from the front of cyl #1. The
air goes to a box on the back of the cooler and exits through the side of
the cowl. My thinking was to get the coolest ram air possible and exit
that air with out adding any pressure to the lower side of the engine. My
question is, will the air flow around the outside of the cowl keep air from
exiting the cooler? Has anyone experienced this type of installation? Do you
think I need to break up that air flow? If so how?
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It might be a good idea to put a scoop facing back over the
front of the opening in the cowl. That would break the airflow up
and create a little suction to help the cooler. Could be just bent-up
sheet, maybe 3/4" high ...
......bobp
-------------------------------orig.---------------------------------------
At 10:03 PM 6/5/01 -0700, you wrote:
problem. My SR has the IO540 and the oil cooler is too large to mount on theThe oil cooler discussion has started to make me think I may have a
back of the baffling. Murphy used two smaller coolers, one on each side. I
mounted one large cooler on the inside of the cowling, flush against the
left side. Ram air comes from a 3" scat duct from the front of cyl #1. The
air goes to a box on the back of the cooler and exits through the side of
the cowl. My thinking was to get the coolest ram air possible and exit
that air with out adding any pressure to the lower side of the engine. My
question is, will the air flow around the outside of the cowl keep air from
exiting the cooler? Has anyone experienced this type of installation? Do you
think I need to break up that air flow? If so how?
largeAl Paxhia
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The oil cooler discussion has started to make me
think I may have a problem. My SR has the IO540 and the oil cooler is too
oneto mount on the back of the baffling. Murphy used two smaller coolers,
front ofon each side. I mounted one large cooler on the inside of the cowling,
flush against the left side. Ram air comes from a 3" scat duct from the
of thecyl #1. The air goes to a box on the back of the cooler and exits through the
side of the cowl. My thinking was to get the coolest ram air
possible and exit that air with out adding any pressure to the lower side
engine. My question is, will the air flow around the outside of the cowl keep
air from exiting the cooler? Has anyone experienced this type of installation?
Do you think I need to break up that air flow? If so how?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Al Paxhia</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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