Oil cooler

[Walter Klatt]

Yup, for about a month now. Got my engine overhauled as well, so still breaking it in. Good news is that it still flies great, and even my landings have been good. I have my new 1800 amphibs now from Murphy as well, and working on getting them mounted. So with any luck, I'll be having even more fun before the end of the summer.

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: May 30, 2001 6:36 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Oil cooler


FLYING AGAIN WALTER????

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: Walter Klatt (Walter.Klatt@home.com)
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com (murphy-rebel@dcsol.com)
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 9:31 PM
Subject: RE: Oil cooler


Likewise with mine. It is attached directly to the right baffle and I also have to put tape over part of it to keep it from running too cool. I still have low hours on mine, but it is well supported and no signs of any baffle cracking.

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com (murphy-rebel@dcsol.com) [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of Rebflyer@aol.com
Sent: May 30, 2001 2:03 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Oil cooler


Funny you should mention that Wayne,
That's the side we put the oil cooler on (right) and that has never been a
problem. In fact I have had to put tape over the opening for cold weather
ops. I do plan on making a pivoting door to change the opening size.
Curt N97MR

[rebelair]

Hi Alister

Your thought is also documented in Tony Bingelis's book with a very nice
picture in it. That is how I did my installation.

Brian #328R

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
A G Yeoman
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 3:25 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Oil cooler


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Hi Wayne,
I made up an aluminium shroud around the gascolater and
ducted cold air through a 1in duct tube to it, better safe than sorry! I saw
that on a Cherokee 140 once--I liked the idea.

Cheers

Alister


----- Original Message -----
From: Wayne G. O'Shea <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 3:20 PM
Subject: Re: Oil cooler


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Bruce G.

I guess I should stick a digital probe in there, before I open my mouth,

but

I figure seeing there are 400 *F cylinders and 1400*F glowing red exhaust
pipes in that cowling already. There is a good chance the air around the
gascolator is probably already well over the 240* F air that is coming out
of the oil cooler. Might even be doing it a favour having it in the
immediate oil cooler airflow!!!

More food for thought!!!!

Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

----- Original Message -----
From: <Legeorgen@cs.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2001 10:48 PM
Subject: Re: Oil cooler

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Wayne,

Thanks for the pics. Do you have a problem with the oil cooler's exiting

air

blowing on your gasilator?

Bruce G 357R

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[carol51]

Hi Walter:

Since your putting 1800's on you probably have an 0-320 or similiar . Did you cut the firewall back? How does it handle.
I'm thinking of a 2.5 subarau. Any hints would be helpful.

Thanks
REBEL 505

[Walter Klatt]

Yes, I have the 150 hp O320 with the firewall cut back 3 inches, and with the speed cowl. It has plenty of power on wheels, and I'm hoping it will also be adequate on amphibs. I live in BC, so we have lots of mountains we need to climb over. Bob P., Wayne and others on the list with more experience than myself could tell you more about how it handles with the amphibs.

Being new with taildraggers, I've personally had some challenges with the landings, but I'm getting better now. I've got about 50 hours total time on the plane so far. One thing I would recommend starting out is to make sure your c of g is not too far forward, as this makes it harder to land in the 3 point.

I do really like how it flies. It's the only plane I've ever flown that doesn't require any trim adjustment for different attitudes, whether climb, descent or any throttle setting or speed. My trim always stays in neutral and only serves as a backup to my elevator if I ever have a control linkage failure. It doesn't even change with full flaps. It has no pulls to any side in the air, and is no problem keeping straight on the roll either. Full flaps are very effective to get you into those same small fields that the ultralights fly.

The only other problem I had initially was cooling with the speed cowl. I had to cut out a large opening on the bottom with fair size lips to get better suction out the bottom. Someone has suggested fairing the bottom firewall lip as well which I haven't done yet. Also, I cut back the upper inside lips of the front inlets which also seemed to help.

All in all, though, I would have to say, that I am very pleased with my Rebel so far, and for those still building, it truly is worth it all in the end.

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of carol51
Sent: May 31, 2001 9:11 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Oil cooler

Hi Walter:

Since your putting 1800's on you probably have an 0-320 or similiar . Did you cut the firewall back? How does it handle.
I'm thinking of a 2.5 subarau. Any hints would be helpful.

Thanks
REBEL 505

[carol51]

Hi Walter:

Thanks for all the information. Just one more thing. Did you offset the vertical stabilizer or keep it straight. Whatever you did is obviously successful and you can't argue with that. Thanks again for your help.

REBEL 505

[Walter Klatt]

Yes, I offset the fin 3/4 inch, or whatever the manual specified. I still have to apply some right rudder on take-off and climb exactly as you would expect, but in cruise I can take my feet off the rudders completely. Also, I do have a dorsal extending straight forward from the fin. As previously mentioned, no pulls to any side or elevator trim required, and no trim tabs installed anywhere.

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of carol51
Sent: June 1, 2001 8:16 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Oil cooler


Hi Walter:

Thanks for all the information. Just one more thing. Did you offset the vertical stabilizer or keep it straight. Whatever you did is obviously successful and you can't argue with that. Thanks again for your help.

REBEL 505

[Rebflyer]

Hi Walter,
Nice that your flying again! Hope that we both get to experience the amphibs before to long. Mine are now nearing paint, as they have been fitted to the aircraft.
You might think about the fairing out of the firewall pretty seriously. It made 25deg diff. in cht's. To try it out before the hard work, just try it with duct tape. I went up 2" from the bottom of the fuse, but I also was covering the cross tube on our con
ical mount.
This might sound like a odd question, but where are you picking up your temps? From the factory style probe hole in the cylinder? From a thermocouple under the sparkplug? Top or bottom plug? Every one of these positions are different.
Good luck in your experimenting! Curt N97MR



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[Walter Klatt]

Sounds like you pretty close on your floats. I don't expect to be ready with
mine for at least a couple more months.

Yes, I think I will try fairing the bottom of the firewall, too. Thanks for
the tip on duct tape. I also have the conical mount cross tube. I still
could use another 25 degree cooling on the CHT's.

I take the temps from the holes on the bottom of the cylinders. I use a KSA
CHT/EGT gauge.

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Rebflyer@aol.com
Sent: June 2, 2001 5:33 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Oil cooler


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Hi Walter,
Nice that your flying again! Hope that we both get to experience the
amphibs before to long. Mine are now nearing paint, as they have been fitted
to the aircraft.
You might think about the fairing out of the firewall pretty seriously. It
made 25deg diff. in cht's. To try it out before the hard work, just try it
with duct tape. I went up 2" from the bottom of the fuse, but I also was
covering the cross tube on our con

ical mount.
This might sound like a odd question, but where are you picking up your
temps? From the factory style probe hole in the cylinder? From a
thermocouple under the sparkplug? Top or bottom plug? Every one of these
positions are different.
Good luck in your experimenting! Curt N97MR
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[Rebflyer]

Hi Walt,
The fairing of the firewall should do it for you. I tried cutting "gills" in the sides of the speed cowling with an insignificant result, and had already opened up the bottom more with a 1" lip. The end result now is 355deg cht on 90+ days, and about 15 les
s on a standard days. That's about the max variation.
Just finished the annual inspection (a continuation of the on going inspections) and found no discrepancies. Thanks to Wayne for giving a heads up on all the fun places to look for possible problems.
Maybe when I get a little more time I'll glean the archives for all his tidbits and try to put together a Rebel specific inspection sheet, in conjunction with the standard inspect sheets. ( Do you have one already Wayne?) All I need is time :) Curt N97MR



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[brian amendala]

Please tell me what fairing the firewall means. Is that for OIL or AIR
cooling? My Rebel is ready for inspection and then I will be testing her. Am
I destined to have a cooling problem? Thanks....Brian

From: Rebflyer@aol.com
Reply-To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Oil cooler
Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 22:23:13 EDT

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Hi Walt,
The fairing of the firewall should do it for you. I tried cutting
"gills" in the sides of the speed cowling with an insignificant result, and
had already opened up the bottom more with a 1" lip. The end result now is
355deg cht on 90+ days, and about 15 les

s on a standard days. That's about the max variation.
Just finished the annual inspection (a continuation of the on going
inspections) and found no discrepancies. Thanks to Wayne for giving a heads
up on all the fun places to look for possible problems.
Maybe when I get a little more time I'll glean the archives for all his
tidbits and try to put together a Rebel specific inspection sheet, in
conjunction with the standard inspect sheets. ( Do you have one already
Wayne?) All I need is time :) Curt N97MR
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[Legeorgen]

Curt,

If anyone already has a Rebel specific annual inspection sheet, I for one
would like to having one. I'm not clear on what you guys mean when you talk
about fairing out the exit air on the cowling to create lower pressure there
and better cooling. Can someone describe this process for me?

Bruce G




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[klehman]

Hi

The lip or flange on the lower edge of the firewall tends to interfere
with the smooth flow of air out of the engine compartment. The guys have
reported better cooling if they wrap a thin piece of aluminum around the
lip (and the lower hoizontal bar of the engine mount if applicable) to
present a rounded edge to the exiting air. It sounds like even duct tape
around the edge helps. Holler if you need a sketch.
Ken

Legeorgen@cs.com wrote:

Curt,

If anyone already has a Rebel specific annual inspection sheet, I for one
would like to having one. I'm not clear on what you guys mean when you talk
about fairing out the exit air on the cowling to create lower pressure there
and better cooling. Can someone describe this process for me?

Bruce G

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[Rebflyer]

Hi Bruce,
Ken answered the firewall fairing pretty well. The fact that the
firewall flanges originally went towards the front causes a disruption in the
airflow out going at the bottom of the cowl. After reading an article in
kitplanes by Barry Wainfan(who is usually way over my head) I tried the duct
tape to smooth it out. Worked wonders. Thats when a 16 thou fairing was made
to replace the duct tape. The problem doesn't seem so bad on the dynafocal
mount, but you still have the firewall lip to contend with. When I said
originally, I have heard that some people have now installed the firewall
with the flanges towards the rear. Not sure how that interfaces with the
motormounts, but I'm sure it can be overcome. Keep at it, it's worth it Curt
N97MR

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[Legeorgen]

Curt, Ken,

So the flange disrupts the air flow out the cowling similar to what the gate
of a pick up truck does to the air flow on the vehicle. That makes sense. I
picture an aluminum lip to smooth out the flow but doesn't the lip interfere
with the throttle brackets and or gascolator. Maybe I need a better picture.
I'm drilling holes in the firewall now.

I have seen extensions to lower cowlings to exit the air more parallel to the
slip stream, and I assumed that is what you guys where talking about. I have
considered doing something there but I never real gave much thought to the
flange on the lower firewall.

Bruce G



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[Bob Patterson]

Hi Bruce !

It's nothing so elaborate ! The fairing is just a sheet of
aluminum that starts about 3" up from the bottom of the firewall,
and goes down over the front of the lip, and wraps back to fasten on
to the bottom of the fuselage.
.....bobp

-------------------------------orig.---------------------------------------
At 11:10 PM 6/3/01 EDT, you wrote:

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Curt, Ken,

So the flange disrupts the air flow out the cowling similar to what the gate
of a pick up truck does to the air flow on the vehicle. That makes sense. I
picture an aluminum lip to smooth out the flow but doesn't the lip interfere
with the throttle brackets and or gascolator. Maybe I need a better picture.
I'm drilling holes in the firewall now.

I have seen extensions to lower cowlings to exit the air more parallel to the
slip stream, and I assumed that is what you guys where talking about. I have
considered doing something there but I never real gave much thought to the
flange on the lower firewall.

Bruce G
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