Rebel Verses Kitfox

[WWhunter]

Wow guys, I feel like Rebel owners were just regarded as a bunch of fibbers in regards to the overall Rebel experience. There is a discussion on the teamkitfox forum where a guy posted the question of possibly building a Rebel. While I suggested it is a great airplane, another poster sure didn't have much nice to say. Here is his post:

"I have known 4 people over the years that had Rebels, 3 of them on floats, and none of them kept the plane.

Curious, I asked them all why they didn't stick with the Rebel, but never got a definitive or collective answer from them. But here is what I did get: One said performance was not good with the 0-320 and amphib floats, cruising only at 85 mph at 9 gph. Another said cockpit uncomfortable because you sit pretty flat on the floor compared to most other aircraft. Another with an 0-360 on amphibs said it had very poor load carrying ability and felt the wing was too short (same issue with the Murphy Moose, especially on floats). The last guy said he had to install an 0-320 because the 0-290 didn't have enough power on floats, and felt it just never met his overall expectations. All of them said the Rebel flew ok, but at the same time none of them raved about how much fun they are to fly (like most of us do with our Kitfoxes). I flew one with an 0-320 on Murphy amphibs and actually was thinking I might maybe want one (for pretty much same reasons you mentioned), but after flying it realized while it was overall ok, it just didn't excite me enough to want to own one.

For comparison, my Model 4 Kitfox amphib is way more fun to fly and outperforms the Rebel on less than half the fuel. And I'm pretty convinced if you built a new Kitfox Super Sport float plane with a 912 or 914, or if on wheels you equipped it with a 125+ hp aircraft engine, and made baggage as big as possible, you would have a better performing airplane than the Rebel. And it would burn less fuel, haul the same or more, could still be an LSA, and has the great feature of folding wings. And in a crash, the Kitfox has a chromoly steel fuselage (notice they use that in race cars, not aluminum or composite...).

I'm not bashing the Rebel, as overall I think they are good airplanes, and honestly have considered one. But compared to a late model Kitfox I really don't think there is a comparison. However, comparing a Kitfox to a lot of airplanes will be that way, as it has well above average performance for such low horsepower, and the fun factor is off the charts. That's probably why there are so many Kitfoxes out there, and so few Rebels. For similar money on the used market, and if I did'nt care about being a LSA, I'd go for a 0-360 powered older Glastar. But again, the Kitfox SS would be more fun and cost effective to own imho.

Take your Kitfox to that Alaskan beach. It will be the most fun you can have "


Wow, I feel like we were all just called big fibbers and the Rebel is a POS!!! I'm going to have to forever hind my great admiration for all things Rebel! ;)

[irishfield]

Maybe that's why I can't sell the Rebel Amphib that I have in the hangar.... it cruises too fast at 118 MPH and may scare these guys ! :yawn:

[WWhunter]

Wayne, If I could sell my kit and amphib kit, I would be giving that plane so very serious consideration! I was just droling over that plane again a few days ago. I know the plane market is still in the gutter, unless you want to give it away for <$0.50 on the dollar...then you'll still have guys trying to offer you less. I have too many planes/projects and need to get sown to only one that I can fly and enjoy. I used to love building/restoring as much or more than flying but those days are limited.

Unfortuantely I will probably end up having to fly under LSA regulations and it would not be legal. Friggin laws!!! ;)

[Brent Anderson]

Those Kitfox guys probably drive Kia's too.

[Rebel 804]

Probably right about the Kias, or maybe Hundys (I think that's how you blokes pronounce it) :wave:
We've got lotsa these rice burners down here.
John
Rebel 804

[Jerry Folkerts]

Maybe I'm old school, but I have a problem with airplanes that go BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ and turn at 5000 rpm. At least my VWs in the Cygnets sound like real airplanes

[WWhunter]

Jerry,
I own a couple of those Bzzzzzzzzz type planes. Purchased a Kitfox IV for my son (its not yet flying) and I have been flying a RANS S7 that I installed the 'Zipper High Torque' piston/cylinders. Changed the stock 80 HP motor to 105 HP. I was very apprehensive about these motors at first having flown behind Lycs. and Continentals for 25+ years. The high RPM's of the Rotax took me some time to get used to and will admit, I still am not 100% comfortable. They do work though. The S7 I have is a blst to fly. My person little rocket ship for small strips. Generally airborn in way less than 200 feet and then it seems to go nearly straight up. Downside to these little planes is they feel more kite like (for a better term) and a guy gets bounced around quite a bit if the winds get more than 10 kts.

I posted the thread because I felt the reply I quoted was not the same as I had experienced nor read concerning the performance specs of the Rebel. Personally having flown in both a Rebel and the Kitfox, I much prefer the Rebel for its bigger airplane feel and room. The gentleman that posted the quote had been looking at the Rebel but after riding in one, changed his mind.
I understand that he has only flown in one Rebel and I remember seeing it for sale. It was built in PA I believe and the floats were of his own build/design having copied another design.

I was taken back by his comment of this particular Rebel only cruising at 85 mph on floats. This seemed low compared to what I have read on this forum.

[Ken]

Actually the subaru and I don't usually go a lot faster than 85 mph on amphibs and darn it all my burn does go up to 4 gph on amphibs and my range goes down to only 8 hours.

You may tell your friend that. It is not technically a fib since I'm not in the USA and US 5 gallons = 4 imperial...

I've always said the most fun for the dollar is the lightest aircraft you can find but those seldom make good cross country aircraft or load haulers.

Ken

[Walter Klatt]

I can't imagine an O-320 Rebel amphib only being able to cruise at 85 mph, and burning 9 gph!!?? Unless he was using a 2 X 4 for a prop... I wonder where/how these stories get started?

With my 360 Rebel Amphib, I cruise at 120 mph on only 8.5 US gph, and can get off the water in 5 or 6 seconds and 211 ft (verified by GPS track). And this is not into a howling wind like some of the youtube vids I've seen.

But nothing like going for a flight with me to erase any doubts, or better yet bring along your other brand floatplane for some side by side tests... I know some great higher alpine lakes here that would quickly bring out the truth.

And would love to see how you pile 300 lbs of baggage into a Kitfox...

[Jerry Folkerts]

Oh, and I forgot -- you have to burp them before starting

[snowyriver]

Keith,
Are you selling your amphib kit? Craig

[WWhunter]

Craig,
In regards to selling my floats, I have been giving it some thought. Not sure if I will be staying in MN for the long term and if I move to the southwest, there are not many places to utilize amphibs. I plan on keeping my place here, but will go south for the winters. Trying to decide if they are worth keeping just to use for a couple of months every summer. I'll keep you in mind if I make up my mind.
Keith

[Walter Klatt]

I see the Kitfox factory is now putting in the 180 hp Titan Lycoming clone!! Same with the Just Superstol. Used to be only the Carbon Cub and a couple other Sportplane category SuperCub clones.

So if Murphy wants to compete in that super STOL league, that Radical Rebel will have to very, very good. IE, very light, and lots of HP. That first demonstrator (Oshkosh?) should have at least 220 hp, or it will be a waste of effort, IMO.

[WWhunter]

Nothing to say other than.....I totally agree!! STOL and big tires seems to be the 'flavor of the day'. The biggest advantage I see with the Rebel is the vast interior space compared to the Just, Kitfox, Rans, etc. Having owned/flown the Kitfox and a Rans S7, I still think the Rebel series is a better plane. Marketing is what sells planes (unfortunately it costs a lot of money) and that is the missing link with Murphy's aircraft. Little to no marketing that shows what a great plane it really is. People gravitate to what ever is the latest hot item, even if something else out there does it better.