firewall

[Mike Davis]

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Subject: firewall
From: "Dan Morehouse" <dan.morehouse@netos.com>
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Hello!

Just finished placing the witches hat sections on the front and back of the
firewall. If I were to do it over again, I'd consider putting on these
pieces before drilling for the top, bottom, and sides that attach to the
firewall. Putting the witches hat on could make for a straighter firewall to
drill into it's flanges.

Also, since I may put insulation and ss steel on the front of the firewall,
I'm waiting to drill out to #30 until that time.

Finally, MAM suggests a 2" channel to go between the top two motor mounts.
What is this made of?



Cheers,
Dan



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[Mike Davis]

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From: "Alister Yeoman" <yeoman@voyager.co.nz>
To: "Murphy Rebel" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: firewall
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 22:35:42 +1300
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Hi there,

I spoke to Grant from Murphy about this, he reckoned heavier the better (
it does fail here with the heavier motors, I found out!! ) I put 100 thou.
material ( probably over did it ) but I guess 60 thou would be good. I had
my channel pressed at an engineering shop to help maintain a good radius on
the corners.

I agree that keeping the firewall straight while drilling can be a
challenge, especially around the corners, if it is not perfect all the more
reason to strengthen with a channel

Cheers

Alister Yeoman
----------

From: Dan Morehouse <dan.morehouse@netos.com>
To: murphy-rebel @dcsol.com <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: firewall
Date: Thursday, January 07, 1999 12:39 PM

Hello!

Just finished placing the witches hat sections on the front and back of

the

firewall. If I were to do it over again, I'd consider putting on these
pieces before drilling for the top, bottom, and sides that attach to the
firewall. Putting the witches hat on could make for a straighter firewall

to

drill into it's flanges.

Also, since I may put insulation and ss steel on the front of the

firewall,

I'm waiting to drill out to #30 until that time.

Finally, MAM suggests a 2" channel to go between the top two motor

mounts.

What is this made of?



Cheers,
Dan

.





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[Mike Davis]

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From: "Tim Carter" <tlcarter@email.msn.com>
To: "'Murphy Rebel'" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: RE: firewall
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 10:40:57 -0800
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Alister:

What exactly did you make from .100? I am interested in what you did, but I
can't deduce it from your messages....

Tim

-----Original Message-----
From: Alister Yeoman [mailto:yeoman@voyager.co.nz]
Sent: Sunday, January 17, 1999 1:36 AM
To: Murphy Rebel
Subject: Re: firewall


Hi there,

I spoke to Grant from Murphy about this, he reckoned heavier the better (
it does fail here with the heavier motors, I found out!! ) I put 100 thou.
material ( probably over did it ) but I guess 60 thou would be good. I had
my channel pressed at an engineering shop to help maintain a good radius on
the corners.

I agree that keeping the firewall straight while drilling can be a
challenge, especially around the corners, if it is not perfect all the more
reason to strengthen with a channel

Cheers

Alister Yeoman
----------

From: Dan Morehouse <dan.morehouse@netos.com>
To: murphy-rebel @dcsol.com <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: firewall
Date: Thursday, January 07, 1999 12:39 PM

Hello!

Just finished placing the witches hat sections on the front and back of

the

firewall. If I were to do it over again, I'd consider putting on these
pieces before drilling for the top, bottom, and sides that attach to the
firewall. Putting the witches hat on could make for a straighter firewall

to

drill into it's flanges.

Also, since I may put insulation and ss steel on the front of the

firewall,

I'm waiting to drill out to #30 until that time.

Finally, MAM suggests a 2" channel to go between the top two motor

mounts.

What is this made of?



Cheers,
Dan

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[Mike Davis]

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From: "Alister Yeoman" <yeoman@voyager.co.nz>
To: "Murphy Rebel" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: firewall
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:33:38 +1300
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Hi Tim,

After about 20hrs flying I got cracks and distortion of the firewall around
the top engine mounts, so I did the Murphy floatfix and placed a channel
between the top two engine mounts. I also placed .032" doublers under the
engine mounts area on the fireawall to repair the damaged.

I used .100" 2024 T3 for the channel 2" wide, to form this I had it pressed
at an engineering shop. I was pretty sensitive about the damage so I
probably overdid the thickness of the material required here, but I do
believe that it requires more than just a bit of .020". There is no support
at all on the engine mount for the 0320, and on rough ground the top two
mounts try to pull together in effect collasping the fuse inwards, dont be
fooled, this happens to aircraft on wheels as well as on floats!

This area is as tough as old boots now I have done the mod, also if you are
fitting spring gear there are issues that need to looked at there, Murphy
should have a fix by now.

Cheers,

Alister Yeoman.



----------

From: Tim Carter <tlcarter@email.msn.com>
To: 'Murphy Rebel' <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: RE: firewall
Date: Tuesday, January 19, 1999 7:40 AM

Alister:

What exactly did you make from .100? I am interested in what you did,

but I

can't deduce it from your messages....

Tim

-----Original Message-----
From: Alister Yeoman [mailto:yeoman@voyager.co.nz]
Sent: Sunday, January 17, 1999 1:36 AM
To: Murphy Rebel
Subject: Re: firewall


Hi there,

I spoke to Grant from Murphy about this, he reckoned heavier the better (
it does fail here with the heavier motors, I found out!! ) I put 100

thou.

material ( probably over did it ) but I guess 60 thou would be good. I

had

my channel pressed at an engineering shop to help maintain a good radius

on

the corners.

I agree that keeping the firewall straight while drilling can be a
challenge, especially around the corners, if it is not perfect all the

more

reason to strengthen with a channel

Cheers

Alister Yeoman
----------

From: Dan Morehouse <dan.morehouse@netos.com>
To: murphy-rebel @dcsol.com <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: firewall
Date: Thursday, January 07, 1999 12:39 PM

Hello!

Just finished placing the witches hat sections on the front and back of

the

firewall. If I were to do it over again, I'd consider putting on these
pieces before drilling for the top, bottom, and sides that attach to

the

firewall. Putting the witches hat on could make for a straighter

firewall

to

drill into it's flanges.

Also, since I may put insulation and ss steel on the front of the

firewall,

I'm waiting to drill out to #30 until that time.

Finally, MAM suggests a 2" channel to go between the top two motor

mounts.

What is this made of?



Cheers,
Dan

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[Mike Davis]

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From: "Tim Carter" <tlcarter@email.msn.com>
To: "'Murphy Rebel'" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: RE: firewall
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 15:35:31 -0800
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Thanks Allister,

I was wondering, when you were pondering the fix, did you consider welding a
steel tube crossmember to the mount itself, between the top two engine mount
points?

I believe I have heard of that being a potential fix to the mount that would
cure the problem. What do you think?

Tim

-----Original Message-----
From: Alister Yeoman [mailto:yeoman@voyager.co.nz]
Sent: Monday, January 18, 1999 1:34 PM
To: Murphy Rebel
Subject: Re: firewall


Hi Tim,

After about 20hrs flying I got cracks and distortion of the firewall around
the top engine mounts, so I did the Murphy floatfix and placed a channel
between the top two engine mounts. I also placed .032" doublers under the
engine mounts area on the fireawall to repair the damaged.

I used .100" 2024 T3 for the channel 2" wide, to form this I had it pressed
at an engineering shop. I was pretty sensitive about the damage so I
probably overdid the thickness of the material required here, but I do
believe that it requires more than just a bit of .020". There is no support
at all on the engine mount for the 0320, and on rough ground the top two
mounts try to pull together in effect collasping the fuse inwards, dont be
fooled, this happens to aircraft on wheels as well as on floats!

This area is as tough as old boots now I have done the mod, also if you are
fitting spring gear there are issues that need to looked at there, Murphy
should have a fix by now.

Cheers,

Alister Yeoman.



----------

From: Tim Carter <tlcarter@email.msn.com>
To: 'Murphy Rebel' <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: RE: firewall
Date: Tuesday, January 19, 1999 7:40 AM

Alister:

What exactly did you make from .100? I am interested in what you did,

but I

can't deduce it from your messages....

Tim

-----Original Message-----
From: Alister Yeoman [mailto:yeoman@voyager.co.nz]
Sent: Sunday, January 17, 1999 1:36 AM
To: Murphy Rebel
Subject: Re: firewall


Hi there,

I spoke to Grant from Murphy about this, he reckoned heavier the better (
it does fail here with the heavier motors, I found out!! ) I put 100

thou.

material ( probably over did it ) but I guess 60 thou would be good. I

had

my channel pressed at an engineering shop to help maintain a good radius

on

the corners.

I agree that keeping the firewall straight while drilling can be a
challenge, especially around the corners, if it is not perfect all the

more

reason to strengthen with a channel

Cheers

Alister Yeoman
----------

From: Dan Morehouse <dan.morehouse@netos.com>
To: murphy-rebel @dcsol.com <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: firewall
Date: Thursday, January 07, 1999 12:39 PM

Hello!

Just finished placing the witches hat sections on the front and back of

the

firewall. If I were to do it over again, I'd consider putting on these
pieces before drilling for the top, bottom, and sides that attach to

the

firewall. Putting the witches hat on could make for a straighter

firewall

to

drill into it's flanges.

Also, since I may put insulation and ss steel on the front of the

firewall,

I'm waiting to drill out to #30 until that time.

Finally, MAM suggests a 2" channel to go between the top two motor

mounts.

What is this made of?



Cheers,
Dan

[Mike Davis]

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From: "Alister Yeoman" <yeoman@voyager.co.nz>
To: "Murphy Rebel" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: firewall
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 15:11:08 +1300
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Tim,

Yes I did consider that, and it would be a good idea. The only thing that
complicates the issue is that the area behind the engine on the 0320 is
quite tight and I didn't want to clutter the area any more that possible. I
do believe that it would very difficult to remove your mags if you did the
fix using the system you describe, I have had to remove a motor from the
airframe on a Pitts to do simple check on a mag, I didn't want to end up
with something like that.

I am very happy with the fix I have and was quite easy to do.

Cheers

Alister

----------

From: Tim Carter <tlcarter@email.msn.com>
To: 'Murphy Rebel' <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: RE: firewall
Date: Tuesday, January 19, 1999 12:35 PM

Thanks Allister,

I was wondering, when you were pondering the fix, did you consider

welding a

steel tube crossmember to the mount itself, between the top two engine

mount

points?

I believe I have heard of that being a potential fix to the mount that

would

cure the problem. What do you think?

Tim

-----Original Message-----
From: Alister Yeoman [mailto:yeoman@voyager.co.nz]
Sent: Monday, January 18, 1999 1:34 PM
To: Murphy Rebel
Subject: Re: firewall


Hi Tim,

After about 20hrs flying I got cracks and distortion of the firewall

around

the top engine mounts, so I did the Murphy floatfix and placed a channel
between the top two engine mounts. I also placed .032" doublers under the
engine mounts area on the fireawall to repair the damaged.

I used .100" 2024 T3 for the channel 2" wide, to form this I had it

pressed

at an engineering shop. I was pretty sensitive about the damage so I
probably overdid the thickness of the material required here, but I do
believe that it requires more than just a bit of .020". There is no

support

at all on the engine mount for the 0320, and on rough ground the top two
mounts try to pull together in effect collasping the fuse inwards, dont

be

fooled, this happens to aircraft on wheels as well as on floats!

This area is as tough as old boots now I have done the mod, also if you

are

fitting spring gear there are issues that need to looked at there, Murphy
should have a fix by now.

Cheers,

Alister Yeoman.



----------

From: Tim Carter <tlcarter@email.msn.com>
To: 'Murphy Rebel' <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: RE: firewall
Date: Tuesday, January 19, 1999 7:40 AM

Alister:

What exactly did you make from .100? I am interested in what you did,

but I

can't deduce it from your messages....

Tim

-----Original Message-----
From: Alister Yeoman [mailto:yeoman@voyager.co.nz]
Sent: Sunday, January 17, 1999 1:36 AM
To: Murphy Rebel
Subject: Re: firewall


Hi there,

I spoke to Grant from Murphy about this, he reckoned heavier the better

(

it does fail here with the heavier motors, I found out!! ) I put 100

thou.

material ( probably over did it ) but I guess 60 thou would be good. I

had

my channel pressed at an engineering shop to help maintain a good

radius

on

the corners.

I agree that keeping the firewall straight while drilling can be a
challenge, especially around the corners, if it is not perfect all the

more

reason to strengthen with a channel

Cheers

Alister Yeoman
----------

From: Dan Morehouse <dan.morehouse@netos.com>
To: murphy-rebel @dcsol.com <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: firewall
Date: Thursday, January 07, 1999 12:39 PM

Hello!

Just finished placing the witches hat sections on the front and back

of

the

firewall. If I were to do it over again, I'd consider putting on

these

pieces before drilling for the top, bottom, and sides that attach to

the

firewall. Putting the witches hat on could make for a straighter

firewall

to

drill into it's flanges.

Also, since I may put insulation and ss steel on the front of the

firewall,

I'm waiting to drill out to #30 until that time.

Finally, MAM suggests a 2" channel to go between the top two motor

mounts.

What is this made of?



Cheers,
Dan

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[Mike Davis]

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Alister: What are the issues regarding the spring gear?

Jim Remington

Alister Yeoman wrote:

, also if you are fitting spring gear there are issues that need to looked
at
there, Murphy should have a fix by now.

[Geert Frank]

Hi all, for those that care, my Rebel ( early one, 083R) at first came with
only the aluminum firewall and later without any problem I received a
stainless steel sheet from MAM, at no cost and I simply doubled it up, i.e.
affixed it over the aluminum existing firewall. NO HOLES WERE PRE-DRILLED.
It also had to be cut for size. For the current builders watch yourself or
rather watch your fingers. Stainless gives you a much nastier cut, so put on
the gloves. Finally use highspeed and good quality drillbits, it is much
harder to cut and drill than aluminum, so please be forewarned. I too am
somewhat surprised to hear that ship 007R's firewall came pre-drilled, maybe
they were testing something out at MAM's ? All for now, Geert.

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[wrayt]

I'm sure I've seen lots of comments here about the requirement for a
stainless steel fire wall. My Fus-6 (firewall)

[Wayne G. O'Shea]

Wray, contact Elaine at Murphy! They know that the aluminum firewall is not
accepted in Canada and will (have been) supply(ing) a stainless firewall or
sheet at no cost (part wise or shipping). Refuse her offer for a piece of
stainless sheet and ask specifically for a completely formed stainless
firewall. We just did that a month, or so, ago for the customers I have in
the shop!

Good luck,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca


----- Original Message -----
From: "wrayt" <wrayt@sympatico.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 6:59 PM
Subject: Firewall


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I'm sure I've seen lots of comments here about the requirement for a
stainless steel fire wall. My Fus-6 (firewall) is .032 Al. Should i
also have a piece of stainless that sandwiches to this? If so does it
have a number? I can't seem to find anything. TNX

--
Wray Thompson ...Rebel 306 ...home page http://wrayt.tripod.com/
My ICQ number is 29764664

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[wrayt]

Just called Murphy tech and they said it will pass with the aluminum firewall.
I'm to have my inspector call him.

[Wayne G. O'Shea]

Sorry to have to say it, but Murphy Tech is full of s--t on that one!!!!!
None of the MD-RA inspectors will accept an aluminum firewall (or they won't
have the position of inspector much longer if they did!) If this was the
case why has MAM been sending out Stainless sheet and firewalls to the
Canadian builders since 1994??? Don't you remember all the bullshit Toby
Riley (and crew) went through with theirs, trying to cover the aluminum
firewall after the aircraft was together and snagged for an aluminum
firewall!

Like I said, just call Elaine in shipping and ask for you stainless firewall
(as your kit should have come with one), just like they ship in all the kits
that go out to Canada these days. I don't see how they get by in the U.S
either as they are supposed to follow AC43 down there also and a firewall is
to be either Galvanized or Stainless. (or covered with a suitable material
to pass the flame test and aluminum will not pass)

Regards,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

----- Original Message -----
From: "wrayt" <wrayt@sympatico.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 9:00 PM
Subject: Re: Firewall


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Just called Murphy tech and they said it will pass with the aluminum

firewall.

I'm to have my inspector call him. What do you think?

"Wayne G. O'Shea" wrote:

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Wray, contact Elaine at Murphy! They know that the aluminum firewall is

not

accepted in Canada and will (have been) supply(ing) a stainless firewall

or

sheet at no cost (part wise or shipping). Refuse her offer for a piece

of

stainless sheet and ask specifically for a completely formed stainless
firewall. We just did that a month, or so, ago for the customers I have

in

the shop!

Good luck,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

----- Original Message -----
From: "wrayt" <wrayt@sympatico.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 6:59 PM
Subject: Firewall

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I'm sure I've seen lots of comments here about the requirement for a
stainless steel fire wall. My Fus-6 (firewall) is .032 Al. Should i
also have a piece of stainless that sandwiches to this? If so does it
have a number? I can't seem to find anything. TNX

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Wray Thompson ...Rebel 306 ...home page http://wrayt.tripod.com/
My ICQ number is 29764664

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--
Wray Thompson ...Rebel 306 ...home page http://wrayt.tripod.com/
My ICQ number is 29764664

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[klehman]

Wray

While I would have preferred a formed ss firewall, I am happy with the
0.018 ss lamination on my aluminum firewall. It picked up the four
engine mount points and stiffened things up nicely. Think it added
almost 8 lb but I don't know how thick the formed ss firewall is to
compare. The aluminum flanges are certainly easier to drill when
installing it. The second layer might cut noise and heat a little.

Al Mahon (sp?), the chief inspector, suggested using high temp rtv
around the edges of the ss which will look a little Mickey Mouse but
will help insulate the flanges a little in a fire I guess.

I think fibrefrax insulation sandwiched between aluminum is also
acceptable as well.

I would want it in writing from Al before I dared installing the bare
aluminum firewall in case the final inspector is a different person than
the one you are now dealing with. Even then it may be harder to sell the
aircraft. The rules seem pretty straight forward.

Ken

wrayt wrote:

Just called Murphy tech and they said it will pass with the aluminum firewall.
I'm to have my inspector call him. What do you think?

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[wrayt]

I talked to Elaine and she immediately put me onto tech support who said it
would pass. I'll get hold of RAA tomorrow I guess and see if I can find out who
my inspector will be and see what he has to say.

[LisaFly99]

In a message dated 4/17/01 5:01:25 PM Central Daylight Time,
wrayt@sympatico.ca writes:

Just called Murphy tech and they said it will pass with the aluminum
firewall.
I'm to have my inspector call him. What do you think?

WRAY
If you're building in the States it won't pass!!!
Phil&Lisa Smith #460 N414D

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