[rebel-builders] Sealing: EP420 vs ProSeal

[Ted Waltman]

What do you think about pro-sealing seams, esp corner wraps vs using EP-420?

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Wayne
G. O'Shea
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 7:01 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Sealing the floor question

Don't use silicon anywhere... you'll never get it out of the pores to make
the paint stick to the aircraft. Every seam and overlap gets put together,
in anything I build/assemble, with WET Polyfiber EP420 just before riveting.

You definitely need a bunch of small 3/32 drain holes though, in strategic
places, in the outer bottom of the fuselage !

----- Original Message -----
From: <tjhickey@iowatelecom.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 8:48 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Sealing the floor question

Happy Thanksgiving, everyone!

I am at the point of (small drum roll, please) installing the rear floor,
and it occurs to me that any water that may leak into the cabin would run
down the rear floor, hit a seam at the interior corner wraps, and wick
under
the skin, and maybe collect in the bays beneath the floor. Has anyone used
any type of a sealant in the joint between said corner wraps and the
floor?
I have looked for a mild sealant, but the only thing that seems desirable
would be some of that strippable silicon sealant. I know that regular
silicon sealant is a pretty good glue, and I didn't want to use that. Am
I
fixing a problem that doesn't exist?


Thanks

Tim Hickey
R808




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[Bob Patterson]

For me, I would never use ProSeal on skin seams ....
you might want to take it apart someday !! Almost impossible
to do without damage with ProSeal ... ( and it's heavier ... :-( )
The EP-430 seals the joint tightly, and can be thinner.. with
no flex.

Just MHO ...

......bobp
bobp@prosumers.ca
bobp@pattersys.com
http://www.Pattersys.com
http://www.amway.ca/BobPatterson

De-fenestrate now ! Linux is the answer !

Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender
and do not necessarily reflect the views of any other entities or persons.
Any action taken as a result of the contents of this email is totally the
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On Monday 28 November 2011 10:46:25 Ted Waltman wrote:

What do you think about pro-sealing seams, esp corner wraps vs using
EP-420?

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Wayne
G. O'Shea
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 7:01 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Sealing the floor question

Don't use silicon anywhere... you'll never get it out of the pores to make
the paint stick to the aircraft. Every seam and overlap gets put together,
in anything I build/assemble, with WET Polyfiber EP420 just before
riveting.

You definitely need a bunch of small 3/32 drain holes though, in strategic
places, in the outer bottom of the fuselage !

----- Original Message -----
From: <tjhickey@iowatelecom.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 8:48 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Sealing the floor question

Happy Thanksgiving, everyone!

I am at the point of (small drum roll, please) installing the rear floor,
and it occurs to me that any water that may leak into the cabin would run
down the rear floor, hit a seam at the interior corner wraps, and wick
under
the skin, and maybe collect in the bays beneath the floor. Has anyone
used any type of a sealant in the joint between said corner wraps and
the floor?
I have looked for a mild sealant, but the only thing that seems desirable
would be some of that strippable silicon sealant. I know that regular
silicon sealant is a pretty good glue, and I didn't want to use that. Am
I
fixing a problem that doesn't exist?


Thanks

Tim Hickey
R808

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[Michael Espinoza]

Should the sealer (EP-420) be applied wet to the faying surfaces including
onto the rivets just before assembly? Or would it be best to paint the
surfaces and let it dry before riveting and not coat each rivet?

I have been researching corrosion on faying surfaces and have seen many
opinions from credible sources. In conclusion it makes sense to use
Polyfiber EP-420 on the faying surfaces. For example an engineer from
Boeing states that they prefer to assemble dry.

Mike


On 11/28/11 11:05 AM, "Bob Patterson" <bobp@prosumers.ca> wrote:

For me, I would never use ProSeal on skin seams ....
you might want to take it apart someday !! Almost impossible
to do without damage with ProSeal ... ( and it's heavier ... :-( )
The EP-430 seals the joint tightly, and can be thinner.. with
no flex.

Just MHO ...

......bobp
bobp@prosumers.ca
bobp@pattersys.com
http://www.Pattersys.com
http://www.amway.ca/BobPatterson

De-fenestrate now ! Linux is the answer !

Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender
and do not necessarily reflect the views of any other entities or persons.
Any action taken as a result of the contents of this email is totally the
responsibility of the reader.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/pssignTux.jpg



On Monday 28 November 2011 10:46:25 Ted Waltman wrote:

What do you think about pro-sealing seams, esp corner wraps vs using
EP-420?

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Wayne
G. O'Shea
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 7:01 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Sealing the floor question

Don't use silicon anywhere... you'll never get it out of the pores to make
the paint stick to the aircraft. Every seam and overlap gets put together,
in anything I build/assemble, with WET Polyfiber EP420 just before
riveting.

You definitely need a bunch of small 3/32 drain holes though, in strategic
places, in the outer bottom of the fuselage !

----- Original Message -----
From: <tjhickey@iowatelecom.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 8:48 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Sealing the floor question

Happy Thanksgiving, everyone!

I am at the point of (small drum roll, please) installing the rear floor,
and it occurs to me that any water that may leak into the cabin would run
down the rear floor, hit a seam at the interior corner wraps, and wick
under
the skin, and maybe collect in the bays beneath the floor. Has anyone
used any type of a sealant in the joint between said corner wraps and
the floor?
I have looked for a mild sealant, but the only thing that seems desirable
would be some of that strippable silicon sealant. I know that regular
silicon sealant is a pretty good glue, and I didn't want to use that. Am
I
fixing a problem that doesn't exist?


Thanks

Tim Hickey
R808

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[NormIsler]

Michael

It seems the prefered method is to assemble "wet" and dip / coat each rivet
prior to inseting and squeezing.

That is the way I have been doing it...

Norm Isler
Elite 702E





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[Michael Espinoza]

Norm:
Thanks for your reply. Prior to assembly, do you also prime the entire
inside surface of the wings, empennage, and control surfaces?
Mike

On 11/28/11 12:28 PM, "Norm Isler" <NormIsler@aol.com> wrote:

Michael

It seems the prefered method is to assemble "wet" and dip / coat each rivet
prior to inseting and squeezing.

That is the way I have been doing it...

Norm Isler
Elite 702E





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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

I'm pretty much with Bobp on this one. Put together wet with EP-420... all
rivets dipped and pulled. Any I've taken apart that were built this way....
you can drill all the rivets out and there is still that epoxy holding the
overlap together, that usually takes a putty knife to seperate.

Boeing may say/prefer put together dry, but of course it wouldn't even be
practical in that size environment to be trying to get a seam together wet.
They spray the sheets in a booth and bring them to the assembly jig.

Proseal may have it's place in higher load/vibration areas, like the last
tail section, but then again the rivets should be sufficient to hold things
tight and to stop fretting....... if they are installed properly and of the
right quantity and size.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ted Waltman" <ted@vafm.org>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 10:46 AM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Sealing: EP420 vs ProSeal

What do you think about pro-sealing seams, esp corner wraps vs using
EP-420?

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[Ben Ransom]

Hi Mike,
Yes, priming inside is considered best practice. This is bare 6061. Some
may say don

[NormIsler]

That has been the procedure I follow, and seems to be the preferred process
from most of the builders I have spoken with and / or visited.

Norm:
Thanks for your reply. Prior to assembly, do you also prime the entire
inside surface of the wings, empennage, and control surfaces?
Mike

On 11/28/11 12:28 PM, "Norm Isler" <NormIsler@aol.com> wrote:

Michael

It seems the prefered method is to assemble "wet" and dip / coat each

rivet

prior to inseting and squeezing.

That is the way I have been doing it...

Norm Isler
Elite 702E

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[Ken]

Yes wisdom seems to be that away from salt water bare 6061 will outlive
most of us and is much less likely to corrode than all those Cessnas and
Pipers but I've still seen surface corrosion here in Ontario where
condensation is common. So I also favor a very light see through thinned
coat of primer on interior surfaces. I would not consider it essential
as long as the faying surfaces (joints) are done. I used to mix up about
an ounce at a time and it would last several days if frozen between
uses. If any was left after a few days I'd thin it down and spray it
around with a cheap airbrush before it became unuseable. At around $2.
per oz. it seemed reasonable not to waste the stuff but nobody ever
accused me of being a fast worker! Wet assembled faying surfaces will
keep moisture out better than dry assembled. If it is too late for this
then Corrosion-X or ACF-50 sprayed in after painting will also stop
corrosion and it absolutely will creep in between joints and rivets. You
don't need much and it continues to creep for years. I used Corrosion-X
on the wing interior after assembly and painting because it seemed to be
the easiest solution. Guys with show planes avoid this stuff but that
would not be me ;)

Everbrite is still holding up fine on the exterior hull of my amphibs
after two summers of occasional water use. The satin product matches
dull aluminum quite well but get the regular if you want a shiny
surface. I was not comfortable using it during assembly but it has stood
up rather well on the exterior.

Ken
119R

On 28/11/2011 2:24 PM, Ben Ransom wrote:
[quote]Hi Mike,
Yes, priming inside is considered best practice. This is bare 6061. Some
may say don