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----- Original Message -----
From: Walter Klatt (Walter.Klatt@home.com)
To: (Murphy Rebel) (murphy-rebel@dcsol.com)
Sent: Monday, January 01, 2001 7:37 PM
Subject: Landing the Rebel
Don't know if you guys remember, but a couple of months ago, I was talking about having difficulty landing the Rebel and would often "bounce" it. Anyway, I thought I had got over it, and seemed to be getting very good at landing it properly in the 3 point position without any bounces. Well, 2 months later, it got me, and good, too. I did the proverbial taildragger bounce and failed to recover correctly. I ended up busting the landing gear, which led to other damage. If anyone is interested in the details, go to my website, and follow the links.
Walter Klatt's Home Page
I think there is a lesson here for new taildragger pilots and those that are new to the Rebel. Hopefully, this won't happen to too many of you.
Walter, hope your stomach has stopped rolling around by now! God knows I've been there myself (as have a few others on this list). Thanks for the pictures of that beautiful back drop, but sorry that you had to prang your Rebel to send them out to us! All and all, going by the pictures you have posted, you have gotten off the luckiest of any that I have seen that broke the gear on only one side. With that amount of wing tip damage, please make sure to check out the rear wing attach fitting areas on the wings rear spar and also the cabin for any buckling etc. Sometimes the rear wing attach cabin "I" beam, that is made out of two bulkheads and the .032 strip, will buckle (or crown) upwards at the center or break (or crack) at the side cut outs by the shoulder harness attach area. Give these areas a good looking over, as well as the Fus - 9 rivets on the main carrythrough door posts. Take a pocket knife and try to "pick" the rivet heads off of the top two or three rivets. Sometimes the rivets shear with the quick impact "shot" and the head will only be held in place by the paint job. The torque tubes can also stack together if the cabin side, at the rear attach area, has given ANY amount at all and can damage the torque tube bearing holders (and sometimes the horns) in BOTH wings. Good luck getting her going again and up on floats for spring. Hope that your wife is still "up" for the next flight out for lunch! Best Regards,Wayne G. O'Sheawww.irishfield.on.ca----- Original Message -----
From: Walter Klatt (Walter.Klatt@home.com)
To: (Murphy Rebel) (murphy-rebel@dcsol.com)
Sent: Monday, January 01, 2001 7:37 PM
Subject: Landing the Rebel
Don't know if you guys remember, but a couple of months ago, I was talking about having difficulty landing the Rebel and would often "bounce" it. Anyway, I thought I had got over it, and seemed to be getting very good at landing it properly in the 3 point position without any bounces. Well, 2 months later, it got me, and good, too. I did the proverbial taildragger bounce and failed to recover correctly. I ended up busting the landing gear, which led to other damage. If anyone is interested in the details, go to my website, and follow the links.
Walter Klatt's Home Page
I think there is a lesson here for new taildragger pilots and those that are new to the Rebel. Hopefully, this won't happen to too many of you.
----- Original Message -----
From: Walter Klatt (Walter.Klatt@home.com)
To: (Murphy Rebel Builders List) (murphy-rebel@dcsol.com)
Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2001 9:50 AM
Subject: Re: Landing the Rebel
Yes, I will be checking all those parts very closely. I had full hull insurance, so it's at a shop right now, and I will let them do the fix. Thanks for the tips.
I think my cabin structure is OK, as the doors were still closing nice and tight and I didn't see anything out of alignment.
One thing that everyone should take note of, though, is where the rear drag strut poked into the bottom fuselage. I did the fuel lines under the floor exactly as per MAM's manual, at least what it was a few years ago. The fuel line was ruptured at that point, by the drag strut rear attach fitting damage, and potentially could have caused a fire.
As for the wife, she used to have this blind trust with all my flying and adventure activities, and up to now, nothing has ever gone wrong. She took it pretty good, though. Her greatest concern at the time was how she was going to pick up our daughter from school later that afternoon, and she felt bad for me knowing how long I had worked on this plane to finally get it flying. Nonetheless, it may be awhile before she goes up with me again.
Anyway, live and learn...
"Wayne G. O'Shea" wrote:Walter, hope your stomach has stopped rolling around by now! God knows I've been there myself (as have a few others on this list). Thanks for the pictures of that beautiful back drop, but sorry that you had to prang your Rebel to send them out to us! All and all, going by the pictures you have posted, you have gotten off the luckiest of any that I have seen that broke the gear on only one side. With that amount of wing tip damage, please make sure to check out the rear wing attach fitting areas on the wings rear spar and also the cabin for any buckling etc. Sometimes the rear wing attach cabin "I" beam, that is made out of two bulkheads and the .032 strip, will buckle (or crown) upwards at the center or break (or crack) at the side cut outs by the shoulder harness attach area. Give these areas a good looking over, as well as the Fus - 9 rivets on the main carrythrough door posts. Take a pocket knife and try to "pick" the rivet heads off of the top two or three rivets. Sometimes the rivets shear with the quick impact "shot" and the head will only be held in place by the paint job. The torque tubes can also stack together if the cabin side, at the rear attach area, has given ANY amount at all and can damage the torque tube bearing holders (and sometimes the horns) in BOTH wings. Good luck getting her going again and up on floats for spring. Hope that your wife is still "up" for the next flight out for lunch! Best Regards,Wayne G. O'Sheawww.irishfield.on.ca----- Original Message -----
From: Walter Klatt (Walter.Klatt@home.com)
To: (Murphy Rebel) (murphy-rebel@dcsol.com)
Sent: Monday, January 01, 2001 7:37 PM
Subject: Landing the Rebel
Don't know if you guys remember, but a couple of months ago, I was talking about having difficulty landing the Rebel and would often "bounce" it. Anyway, I thought I had got over it, and seemed to be getting very good at landing it properly in the 3 point position without any bounces. Well, 2 months later, it got me, and good, too. I did the proverbial taildragger bounce and failed to recover correctly. I ended up busting the landing gear, which led to other damage. If anyone is interested in the details, go to my website, and follow the links.
Walter Klatt's Home Page
I think there is a lesson here for new taildragger pilots and those that are new to the Rebel. Hopefully, this won't happen to too many of you.
Walter, since you have full hull coverage, make sure that they (the insurance company) treat it like it was a certified aircraft! I.E. since it had a prop strike the engine must be dismantled to verify the crank is okay etc and of course while the engine shop is at it I'm sure you can get them to correct any other little discrepancies in the engine while it's apart. You're going to pay in the end anyways, so you may as well get everything you should out of the claim. Also check your firewall closely for buckling in the opposite direction of engine rotation. This was the original reason I started reinforcing the firewall as when Howard's did the dirt chew, with only enough engine speed to "get" one blade after the mixture had been pulled to cut off, all 4 mount to firewall attach areas buckled opposite engine rotation to look like what can only be described as a 1/2" joggle like you would see when overlapping sheets to make flush joints. Everyone should pay attention to the first line of your reply! Carry full IN FLIGHT hull coverage for MORE $'s than you have in it, for at least the first year. It may cost you $4000 to $5000 Cdn to have full in-flight coverage but at least if something like this, or worse, happens then your investment is covered. Regards,Wayne G. O'Sheawww.irishfield.on.ca----- Original Message -----
From: Walter Klatt (Walter.Klatt@home.com)
To: (Murphy Rebel Builders List) (murphy-rebel@dcsol.com)
Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2001 9:50 AM
Subject: Re: Landing the Rebel
Yes, I will be checking all those parts very closely. I had full hull insurance, so it's at a shop right now, and I will let them do the fix. Thanks for the tips.
I think my cabin structure is OK, as the doors were still closing nice and tight and I didn't see anything out of alignment.
One thing that everyone should take note of, though, is where the rear drag strut poked into the bottom fuselage. I did the fuel lines under the floor exactly as per MAM's manual, at least what it was a few years ago. The fuel line was ruptured at that point, by the drag strut rear attach fitting damage, and potentially could have caused a fire.
As for the wife, she used to have this blind trust with all my flying and adventure activities, and up to now, nothing has ever gone wrong. She took it pretty good, though. Her greatest concern at the time was how she was going to pick up our daughter from school later that afternoon, and she felt bad for me knowing how long I had worked on this plane to finally get it flying. Nonetheless, it may be awhile before she goes up with me again.
Anyway, live and learn...
"Wayne G. O'Shea" wrote:Walter, hope your stomach has stopped rolling around by now! God knows I've been there myself (as have a few others on this list). Thanks for the pictures of that beautiful back drop, but sorry that you had to prang your Rebel to send them out to us! All and all, going by the pictures you have posted, you have gotten off the luckiest of any that I have seen that broke the gear on only one side. With that amount of wing tip damage, please make sure to check out the rear wing attach fitting areas on the wings rear spar and also the cabin for any buckling etc. Sometimes the rear wing attach cabin "I" beam, that is made out of two bulkheads and the .032 strip, will buckle (or crown) upwards at the center or break (or crack) at the side cut outs by the shoulder harness attach area. Give these areas a good looking over, as well as the Fus - 9 rivets on the main carrythrough door posts. Take a pocket knife and try to "pick" the rivet heads off of the top two or three rivets. Sometimes the rivets shear with the quick impact "shot" and the head will only be held in place by the paint job. The torque tubes can also stack together if the cabin side, at the rear attach area, has given ANY amount at all and can damage the torque tube bearing holders (and sometimes the horns) in BOTH wings. Good luck getting her going again and up on floats for spring. Hope that your wife is still "up" for the next flight out for lunch! Best Regards,Wayne G. O'Sheawww.irishfield.on.ca
*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*Walter,
Sorry to see you busted your Rebel. It was painful to see your pictures, I
can't imagine how bummed you must have been. How will you feel flying and
landing the Rebel again, once you get her repaired?
Bruce G
*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Contributors' page at:
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*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
a hard landingYep, it was a real piss-off, alright. I have never had an incident or even
to the planeon any plane before this happened. There was as much damage to my pride as
landings, and neveron this one for me. Even in my ultralight years, I have had emergency
all now knowonce damaged the plane. Now, when I talk to my local flying buddies, they
possible,that I no longer have a perfect record.
Anyway, I think I can get over that. I do want to get back up as soon as
cost, I think Ithough, more to prove to myself that I can master this thing. Despite the
again. I'mdid learn something from this experience, and will not repeat that mistake
nature, but I'msure to Wayne and Bob P. and to most you, landing the Rebel is second
and my mistake,definitely not there yet. I detailed on my website exactly what happened
I just wenthoping that maybe another new Rebel flyer might be spared the hard learning
*---------------------------------------------------------------------------through.
Legeorgen@cs.com wrote:
Walter,
Sorry to see you busted your Rebel. It was painful to see your pictures, I
can't imagine how bummed you must have been. How will you feel flying and
landing the Rebel again, once you get her repaired?
Bruce G
*---------------------------------------------------------------------------Contributors' page at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/contributors.htm
Visit the book store at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/book_store.htm
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/archives.htm
---------**--------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------*Contributors' page at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/contributors.htm
Visit the book store at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/book_store.htm
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/archives.htm
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*Man Walter,
I have two things to say about all of this. One, boy does that stink!!
Having had an incident in a certified aircraft, I can imagine the feeling of
it being YOUR airplane!
The other is, I sure am glad I don't have the expertise to be able to show
my mistakes on the Internet!! (tounge in cheek)
Really, I am very glad everyone is ok.
Please keep us informed of any damage that's hidden too.
Good luck, Curt, N97MR
*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Contributors' page at:
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Visit the book store at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/book_store.htm
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/archives.htm
*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Thanks again, Wayne, for the tips on what to check on the firewall. The shop that is fixing my plane normally works on Cessnas and Pipers, and have never seen a Murphy homebuilt before. There aren't any shops, that I know of, around here on the coast, like yours, Wayne, out east. They're getting parts right now from MAM, and I will be going to see them and the plane this weekend, and will check all these areas. All suggestions on what to look for are very welcome at this point. Thanks.
With the insurance, yes, they are treating it just like a certified plane and doing a full engine teardown. You wouldn't believe the estimate for the whole works! It's about 4 times what I thought it should be. I have already heard back from the guy on the engine with some "bad news". He says that my camshaft is starting to "spall", and I need a new one. That wasn't surprising, as it is an older half-time engine. The real bad news, though, is that there is some "fretting" and I will need new cases(ings?). Don't what that will cost, but I'm sure it won't be small. Anyone know of any good used conical mount O320 cases?
And, yes, that full hull insurance is definitely a good idea, when just starting out on the Rebel. I thought mine was actually very cheap, a lot less than your suggestion. I don't think my insurance guy would want be mentioning the amount on this list, in case he gave me a special deal, but if someone emails me privately, I might be able to give them some information.
"Wayne G. O'Shea" wrote:Walter, since you have full hull coverage, make sure that they (the insurance company) treat it like it was a certified aircraft! I.E. since it had a prop strike the engine must be dismantled to verify the crank is okay etc and of course while the engine shop is at it I'm sure you can get them to correct any other little discrepancies in the engine while it's apart. You're going to pay in the end anyways, so you may as well get everything you should out of the claim. Also check your firewall closely for buckling in the opposite direction of engine rotation. This was the original reason I started reinforcing the firewall as when Howard's did the dirt chew, with only enough engine speed to "get" one blade after the mixture had been pulled to cut off, all 4 mount to firewall attach areas buckled opposite engine rotation to look like what can only be described as a 1/2" joggle like you would see when overlapping sheets to make flush joints. Everyone should pay attention to the first line of your reply! Carry full IN FLIGHT hull coverage for MORE $'s than you have in it, for at least the first year. It may cost you $4000 to $5000 Cdn to have full in-flight coverage but at least if something like this, or worse, happens then your investment is covered. Regards,Wayne G. O'Sheawww.irishfield.on.ca----- Original Message -----
From:Walter Klatt (Walter.Klatt@home.com)
To: (Murphy Rebel Builders List) (murphy-rebel@dcsol.com)
Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2001 9:50 AM
Subject: Re: Landing the Rebel
Yes, I will be checking all those parts very closely. I had full hull insurance, so it's at a shop right now, and I will let them do the fix. Thanks for the tips.
I think my cabin structure is OK, as the doors were still closing nice and tight and I didn't see anything out of alignment.
One thing that everyone should take note of, though, is where the rear drag strut poked into the bottom fuselage. I did the fuel lines under the floor exactly as per MAM's manual, at least what it was a few years ago. The fuel line was ruptured at that point, by the drag strut rear attach fitting damage, and potentially could have caused a fire.
As for the wife, she used to have this blind trust with all my flying and adventure activities, and up to now, nothing has ever gone wrong. She took it pretty good, though. Her greatest concern at the time was how she was going to pick up our daughter from school later that afternoon, and she felt bad for me knowing how long I had worked on this plane to finally get it flying. Nonetheless, it may be awhile before she goes up with me again.
Anyway, live and learn...
"Wayne G. O'Shea" wrote:
Hello Walter,
Just reading your e-mail to the list dated Jan 2/2001. I'd be willing to bet that you have a "narrow-deck" engine. This older engine design has a tendency to "fret" the main bearing surfaces where the crank rides in the cases (generally lasts one TBO, but not more). The newer "wide-deck" engines generally go two overhauls as long as dimensionally OK before getting the cases lapped and line-bored, which incidentally would be an alternative to new cases for you. EC-Elmore Inc. charges approx. $600.00 USD (1-800-234-2359 or 1-877-674-2424 Oregon office)
Peter Kopasovic
SR003
Walter Klatt wrote:Thanks again, Wayne, for the tips on what to check on the firewall. The shop that is fixing my plane normally works on Cessnas and Pipers, and have never seen a Murphy homebuilt before. There aren't any shops, that I know of, around here on the coast, like yours, Wayne, out east. They're getting parts right now from MAM, and I will be going to see them and the plane this weekend, and will check all these areas. All suggestions on what to look for are very welcome at this point. Thanks.
With the insurance, yes, they are treating it just like a certified plane and doing a full engine teardown. You wouldn't believe the estimate for the whole works! It's about 4 times what I thought it should be. I have already heard back from the guy on the engine with some "bad news". He says that my camshaft is starting to "spall", and I need a new one. That wasn't surprising, as it is an older half-time engine. The real bad news, though, is that there is some "fretting" and I will need new cases(ings?). Don't what that will cost, but I'm sure it won't be small. Anyone know of any good used conical mount O320 cases?
And, yes, that full hull insurance is definitely a good idea, when just starting out on the Rebel. I thought mine was actually very cheap, a lot less than your suggestion. I don't think my insurance guy would want be mentioning the amount on this list, in case he gave me a special deal, but if someone emails me privately, I might be able to give them some information.
"Wayne G. O'Shea" wrote:Walter, since you have full hull coverage, make sure that they (the insurance company) treat it like it was a certified aircraft! I.E. since it had a prop strike the engine must be dismantled to verify the crank is okay etc and of course while the engine shop is at it I'm sure you can get them to correct any other little discrepancies in the engine while it's apart. You're going to pay in the end anyways, so you may as well get everything you should out of the claim. Also check your firewall closely for buckling in the opposite direction of engine rotation. This was the original reason I started reinforcing the firewall as when Howard's did the dirt chew, with only enough engine speed to "get" one blade after the mixture had been pulled to cut off, all 4 mount to firewall attach areas buckled opposite engine rotation to look like what can only be described as a 1/2" joggle like you would see when overlapping sheets to make flush joints.Everyone should pay attention to the first line of your reply! Carry full IN FLIGHT hull coverage for MORE $'s than you have in it, for at least the first year. It may cost you $4000 to $5000 Cdn to have full in-flight coverage but at least if something like this, or worse, happens then your investment is covered. Regards,Wayne G. O'Sheawww.irishfield.on.ca
