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Old Bungee and an gear question.

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hibbs

Old Bungee and an gear question.

Post by hibbs » Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:38 pm

I admit that I am cheap. The kit I bought was partially finished. The
uncut/unstretched bungee have been in a dark box for 7 years. I know
that sun and oils will damage the bungees, but can anyone think of a
reason not to use the ones that came with the kit?

Same landing gear, different question: The manual says I have to put
LG-60 & LG-47 as cross-pieces between the main gear and the drag tube.
The LG-XX that Murphy sent is .020 and is C channel. I don't see it
doing a thing to help. Has anyone left out the LG-47 or 60? Has anyone
replaced them with maybe 1 1/2" tube? I guess that I am saying that the
manual and parts don't make any sense at all in this area.


--
Best Regards,

Scott Hibbs
hibbs@pacifier.com
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Bob Patterson

Old Bungee and an gear question.

Post by Bob Patterson » Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:38 pm

Hi Scott !

That old bungee is likely still OK - there's lots of it out there
<on aircraft> that is a lot older than 7 years !! :-)

You might find it a LOT easier to install if you make it up into
rings ahead of time - there's a sketch of a tool to do this on the FTP
photos section of the dcsol.com/murphy-rebel site. (bungeetool.jpg ??)

LG-60/47 - this might be a place where a picture would really
help ! I know there is one C channel at the top, between the two tubes,
and another from the front top to the middle of the back tube - both
of these channels are attached to the tubes by triangular gusset plates.
The top (closed side) of the C should be UP, so it doesn't collect water.
The channel is lighter than a tube, adds the strength needed, and is
likely the easiest way to join the square front tube to the round rear
tube. It is also a nice, convenient flat surface to fasten either the
factory-prescribed fabric covering, OR - my preferrence, a formed
Lexan cover for the gear legs. As an aid for this, you might want to
bend up an extra channel, about 1/8" wider than the front tube, and
bolt it onto the back of the front tube using the existing bolts.
This gives you something to rivet the fairing to (with large-head
fabric rivets), as you MUST NOT drill extra holes in the landing gear
tubes for rivets or bolts. (There is a VERY good chance it will
BREAK at the holes if you do !!! :-( )

While early Rebels did not have the diagonal brace, the
factory ADDED it for a good reason ! Without it, the drag tube could
buckle back under heavy loads ....

......bobp

------------------------------orig.---------------------------------------
At 10:59 AM 12/23/00 -0800, you wrote:
I admit that I am cheap. The kit I bought was partially finished. The
uncut/unstretched bungee have been in a dark box for 7 years. I know
that sun and oils will damage the bungees, but can anyone think of a
reason not to use the ones that came with the kit?

Same landing gear, different question: The manual says I have to put
LG-60 & LG-47 as cross-pieces between the main gear and the drag tube.
The LG-XX that Murphy sent is .020 and is C channel. I don't see it
doing a thing to help. Has anyone left out the LG-47 or 60? Has anyone
replaced them with maybe 1 1/2" tube? I guess that I am saying that the
manual and parts don't make any sense at all in this area.


--
Best Regards,

Scott Hibbs
hibbs@pacifier.com
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hibbs

Old Bungee and an gear question.

Post by hibbs » Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:38 pm

I have to be pretty careful Rick about where and when I am cheap. The
trouble is that I can have almost 2X as many hobbies and adventures when
I do things cheap. In this case, I think the bungees will be fine. The
J-3 I fly has bungees that are at least that old. From my ordeal
yesterday, I can tell you that the bungee is very strong. It took about
3 hours just to build 1 ring. I had a difficult time holding on to the
bungee well.
--
Best Regards,

Scott Hibbs
hibbs@pacifier.com
*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
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hibbs

Old Bungee and an gear question.

Post by hibbs » Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:38 pm

Rick, you are up early or late! Yes, I would love AutoCad drawings. I
can work with any version except 2000. Thank you very much. I am
making my 2nd (of 12) bungee now, so maybe the die springs will save me
some time.

--
Merry Christmas,

Scott Hibbs
hibbs@pacifier.com
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Rick and Cathy Ford

Old Bungee and an gear question.

Post by Rick and Cathy Ford » Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:38 pm

being cheap will get you into trouble Scott

----- Original Message -----
From: hibbs <hibbs@pacifier.com>
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2000 1:59 PM
Subject: Old Bungee and an gear question.

I admit that I am cheap. The kit I bought was partially finished. The
uncut/unstretched bungee have been in a dark box for 7 years. I know
that sun and oils will damage the bungees, but can anyone think of a
reason not to use the ones that came with the kit?

Same landing gear, different question: The manual says I have to put
LG-60 & LG-47 as cross-pieces between the main gear and the drag tube.
The LG-XX that Murphy sent is .020 and is C channel. I don't see it
doing a thing to help. Has anyone left out the LG-47 or 60? Has anyone
replaced them with maybe 1 1/2" tube? I guess that I am saying that the
manual and parts don't make any sense at all in this area.


--
Best Regards,

Scott Hibbs
hibbs@pacifier.com
*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*
*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*

*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
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Rick and Cathy Ford

Old Bungee and an gear question.

Post by Rick and Cathy Ford » Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:38 pm

I know what you mean about those bungees Scott.
They sure take alot of reefing.

I've just recently change my landing gear over to die springs.
It took about $80 Cdn of 4130 and a couple springs.
The maintenance is lower now and overall, it looks much better.
I've got a Autocad drawing of how to make them if you are interested.
I can also send you some pictures.

Have a Merry Christmas Scott
Rick
436R

----- Original Message -----
From: hibbs <hibbs@pacifier.com>
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2000 9:23 AM
Subject: Re: Old Bungee and an gear question.

I have to be pretty careful Rick about where and when I am cheap. The
trouble is that I can have almost 2X as many hobbies and adventures when
I do things cheap. In this case, I think the bungees will be fine. The
J-3 I fly has bungees that are at least that old. From my ordeal
yesterday, I can tell you that the bungee is very strong. It took about
3 hours just to build 1 ring. I had a difficult time holding on to the
bungee well.
--
Best Regards,

Scott Hibbs
hibbs@pacifier.com
*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*
*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*

*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Contributors' page at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/contributors.htm
Visit the book store at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/book_store.htm
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Terry L McClary

Old Bungee and an gear question.

Post by Terry L McClary » Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:38 pm

Rick,
I have a long way to go before the landing gear but I would be interested
in seeing what you have done. Would you send me the pictures too (or
maybe make arrangements with Mike and post them.)

Merry Christmas everyone.

Terry R666
On Sun, 24 Dec 2000 10:01:15 -0500 "Rick and Cathy Ford"
<rc.ford@home.com> writes:
I know what you mean about those bungees Scott.
They sure take alot of reefing.

I've just recently change my landing gear over to die springs.
It took about $80 Cdn of 4130 and a couple springs.
The maintenance is lower now and overall, it looks much better.
I've got a Autocad drawing of how to make them if you are
interested.
I can also send you some pictures.

Have a Merry Christmas Scott
Rick
436R

----- Original Message -----
From: hibbs <hibbs@pacifier.com>
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2000 9:23 AM
Subject: Re: Old Bungee and an gear question.

I have to be pretty careful Rick about where and when I am cheap.
The
trouble is that I can have almost 2X as many hobbies and
adventures when
I do things cheap. In this case, I think the bungees will be fine.
The
J-3 I fly has bungees that are at least that old. From my ordeal
yesterday, I can tell you that the bungee is very strong. It took
about
3 hours just to build 1 ring. I had a difficult time holding on
to the
bungee well.
--
Best Regards,

Scott Hibbs
hibbs@pacifier.com
*------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
*------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
--------*

*------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------*
*------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------*
*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
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http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/contributors.htm
Visit the book store at:
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Bob Patterson

Old Bungee and an gear question.

Post by Bob Patterson » Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:38 pm

Hi Scott !

The die spring gear that Wayne supplies works great ! It gives
THE best ride of ANY gear for the Rebel !! Nicer than the spring gear,
and stronger, too.

A couple of caveats, though ;

You MUST install the gear bolt bushing sets that Gord Mohr sells,
as all of the bolts are always moving with the die springs, unlike
the bungee gear, which is only supposed to move to prevent airframe
damage (the tires are the primary shock absorbers).

AND - be very careful NOT to use just 'any old springs' - if
the compression rate and travel are not set up correctly for the Rebel,
you can cause structural damage. (This is the reason I have always
opposed this type of gear. Wayne DID take the time to do the numbers,
so I'm comfortable with HIS gear mods !)

All that said, the bungee gear is still the simplest, lightest,
cheapest way to go !

.....bobp

------------------------------orig.--------------------------------------
At 07:26 AM 12/24/00 -0800, you wrote:
Rick, you are up early or late! Yes, I would love AutoCad drawings. I
can work with any version except 2000. Thank you very much. I am
making my 2nd (of 12) bungee now, so maybe the die springs will save me
some time.

--
Merry Christmas,

Scott Hibbs
hibbs@pacifier.com
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------*
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http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/contributors.htm
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Wayne G. O'Shea

Old Bungee and an gear question.

Post by Wayne G. O'Shea » Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:38 pm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Your following message has been delivered to the 177 members of
the list murphy-rebel@dcsol.com at 17:02:36 on 24 Dec 2000.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------


Thanks for the "plug" Bob, but I have had only one person interested in a
long time due to everyone going to the "Cessna leaf" spring gear or
building their own compression struts in various configurations (Sorry guys,
but with some I've seen that don't look too safe I must add), so I still
can't be bothered to bring 4130 up from Dillsburg PA for one or two sets of
struts. It's not worth the bother at this point as I need about 10 sets to
make it worth ordering raw material, shipping, cutting, milling slots, etc.
If I do Ten (10) sets at a time, I can keep the price down to $500 Cdn/set.
If someone only wants one set right now the cost will be $750 Cdn to cover
the higher 4130 tube costs from local suppliers, set up costs (and the
bother of stopping work on 2 refurbs and a complete new Rebel fuselage) to
do a single set of struts. If you think that's too expensive, go out and
price the dozen bungee loops you need in premade form from an A/C supplier.
The newest ones Bob P. left here when we did the A/C "swap" are tagged at
$103.00 for a pair from Aerospares! That would be $618 for bungees and you
have to replace them every now and again. The only thing that needs to be
replaced on the die spring struts I manufacture is (possibly) the ($1.50)
AN5 bolt that slides in the travel slot. I recommend it be removed and
checked once per year and reports so far are that they have always been put
back and not replaced as they were not worn at all. My personal set have had
no maintenance, other than the odd shot of oil and grease, over the last 5 +
years and I haven't even taken my own advice and checked the slider bolt for
wear (I call it a Quality Control check, not laziness!). Now that I've said
that I will go out and change the bolts, as I know they will let me down
now!!

As Bob P. says, the Gord Mhor gear mods are a REALLY good compliment to the
die spring struts, but I would also recommend them to everyone that is using
bungees as well (as I haven't seen a set yet that didn't move almost as
much, or more, as the die springs do)! I will add however that <I DO NOT
HAVE> Gords mods on my gear legs (although I have installed them on Charles
D's and Bob P's Rebels). Since I don't have Gord's solid blocks/bushings, I
have had my main gear legs oval the top hole from hard landings etc, but
mostly from the demanding stresses induced from ski flying with my, scratch
built, fixed penetration skis that are approx 22 " wide x 60" long (about
the size of a set of 4200's, but I can sit ON TOP of 5 feet of powder snow
with them and they give me about 200 FPM more climb due to the "wing"
area!). When I did my engine change I removed my gear legs and installed
full length sleeves (bushings) by drilling the holes oversize to fit the
sleeve and bring the hole back to the original bolt size. When I'm done
"beating up" my Rebel this winter, I will pull the legs and see how they
have held up. If Gord gets a call, it will because they have worn out again!

As for the "any old spring" line, I can't agree more with Bob P. (too bad it
took me 5+ years to get him flying on a set of die spring struts though!).
After 16+ years of co-owning a couple of Plastic Injection Moulding
Companies, We will not even deal with a tool shop that insists on installing
square coil springs in the injection molds they build for us. We have found
that the square ones will break after about a week or two and when we
replace them with the "rounded" coils they will last for years. Main leg and
strut angles, A/C gross (and empty) weights all play a part in the
calculations of gear forces, spring preload, strut unloaded length etc. The
springs I use cost me over $35.00 each, wholesale, through my plastics
plant.

Sorry for the length,
A Merry Christmas and a Happy (and Prosperous) New Year to ALL,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca


----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2000 3:32 PM
Subject: Re: Old Bungee and an gear question.

Hi Scott !

The die spring gear that Wayne supplies works great ! It gives
THE best ride of ANY gear for the Rebel !! Nicer than the spring gear,
and stronger, too.

A couple of caveats, though ;

You MUST install the gear bolt bushing sets that Gord Mohr sells,
as all of the bolts are always moving with the die springs, unlike
the bungee gear, which is only supposed to move to prevent airframe
damage (the tires are the primary shock absorbers).

AND - be very careful NOT to use just 'any old springs' - if
the compression rate and travel are not set up correctly for the Rebel,
you can cause structural damage. (This is the reason I have always
opposed this type of gear. Wayne DID take the time to do the numbers,
so I'm comfortable with HIS gear mods !)

All that said, the bungee gear is still the simplest, lightest,
cheapest way to go !

.....bobp

------------------------------orig.--------------------------------------
At 07:26 AM 12/24/00 -0800, you wrote:
Rick, you are up early or late! Yes, I would love AutoCad drawings. I
can work with any version except 2000. Thank you very much. I am
making my 2nd (of 12) bungee now, so maybe the die springs will save me
some time.

--
Merry Christmas,

Scott Hibbs
hibbs@pacifier.com
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------*
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------*

*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*
*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*

*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Contributors' page at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/contributors.htm
Visit the book store at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/book_store.htm
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/archives.htm
*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*




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