Wing assembly

Bob Patterson · Post by **Bob Patterson** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:35 pm

Hi Ian !

With the split flap setup, the ailerons are separated from
the flaps, and the flaps (generally) only go DOWN. With the
flapperons, you can change the shape of the whole airfoil, and can
use negative flapperon to increase cruise speed and give a smoother
ride in turbulence. Six degrees negative adds about 2-3 mph, and, if
you have over 125 hp., you can use 12 degrees negative, to add an
additional 2-3 mph !! You can't do this with the split flap setup...

The flapperon gives a very powerful roll (about 2 seconds,
45 degrees to 45 degrees !) - the separate ailerons, being half the
size, give a much slower roll rate.

Not sure exactly what you'd have to do to ease conversion -
the manuals should show the normal construction method for flapperons.
One extra advantage of using the flapperon system is that you can save
a good 10 lb. or more, by using the standard aluminum flap handle
instead of that huge, heavy steel tube thing you need for the split
flaps. If you DO go with flapperons, make the flap handle in an
opened-up "L" shape, rather than just a straight plate as the book
shows. The dogleg handle is easier to pull at the aft end, and, at
cruise, tucks right up out of sight forward.

Several others have already answered that the strut fairings
are now made from sheet aluminum - but Lexan is better ! If you
can get some of the early fiberglas cuffs that MAM used to supply,
they can be made very attractive & efficient by just cutting off
the inch or so ridge at the bottom, and smoothing them to the fuse !
Toby Riley did this on his Rebel, and they look GREAT !!!

See Rick Ford's comments on aileron effectiveness - he has
split flaps (electric) ...

.....bobp

---------------------------------orig.------------------------------------
At 11:44 PM 12/18/00 +0800, you wrote:

G'day Bob

It's interesting what you have to say re flaps vs flapperons.

I purchased the kit with the split flap as an option because it seemed like
a good idea at the time. I have had great difficulty with understanding the
instructions in the manual and I assume that I am in fact building with the
flaps. Could you please explain the differences in the mechanical operation
of the flaps, vs the flapperons. What would I need to do now so I could
retro fit the flapperons, or what would I need to do, to build the
flapperons now? I won't be using the Rebel for float plane flying. There
are very few lakes anywhere near me!

As an aside just what do the fairings for the wing struts look like? Are
they ready made or do I need to fabricate them? If they are ready-made it
looks like I have another shortage in my kit!

Thanks and regards

Ian Donaldson

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 8:45 AM
Subject: Re: Wing assembly

Hi Ian !

Just a side-thought .... While you're building the flapperon
system, make sure you incorporate whatever you need to convert BACK
FROM split flaps to the original flapperons. EVERYBODY I know who
tried the split flaps has switched back to the flapperons - or wants to !

You end up with half the flaps (because the max. deflection stays
the same at 18 degrees), and half the ailerons ! Light, but lacking in
effectiveness for crosswinds .... The flapperons seem to work much
better,
ESPECIALLY for float operations.

.....bobp

You ask : "Why do they sell the split flaps ??" - well, a bunch
of customers said - "<Cessna> did it, so it MUST be good. " !!
After all, they learned to fly on Cessnas ....

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allsure · Post by **allsure** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:35 pm

G'day Bob

It's interesting what you have to say re flaps vs flapperons.

I purchased the kit with the split flap as an option because it seemed like
a good idea at the time. I have had great difficulty with understanding the
instructions in the manual and I assume that I am in fact building with the
flaps. Could you please explain the differences in the mechanical operation
of the flaps, vs the flapperons. What would I need to do now so I could
retro fit the flapperons, or what would I need to do, to build the
flapperons now? I won't be using the Rebel for float plane flying. There
are very few lakes anywhere near me!

As an aside just what do the fairings for the wing struts look like? Are
they ready made or do I need to fabricate them? If they are ready-made it
looks like I have another shortage in my kit!

Thanks and regards

Ian Donaldson

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 8:45 AM
Subject: Re: Wing assembly

Hi Ian !

Just a side-thought .... While you're building the flapperon
system, make sure you incorporate whatever you need to convert BACK
FROM split flaps to the original flapperons. EVERYBODY I know who
tried the split flaps has switched back to the flapperons - or wants to !

You end up with half the flaps (because the max. deflection stays
the same at 18 degrees), and half the ailerons ! Light, but lacking in
effectiveness for crosswinds .... The flapperons seem to work much

better,

ESPECIALLY for float operations.

.....bobp

You ask : "Why do they sell the split flaps ??" - well, a bunch
of customers said - "<Cessna> did it, so it MUST be good. " !!
After all, they learned to fly on Cessnas ....

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Legeorgen · Post by **Legeorgen** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:35 pm

Brian,

More on your STOL technique. When I am landing the Kitfox for as short a roll
as possible (it too has a high sink rate like you described the Rebel, when
low and slow) I set up on final so as to drag the plane in with power (behind
the power curve). When I'm at the right altitude and I want it to drop to the
runway at the right spot I pull the power and it falls like a rock. Hopefully
where I wanted it. Is this similar to your Rebel technique?

Bruce G 357R
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Bob Patterson · Post by **Bob Patterson** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:35 pm

Hi Ian !

The standard Rebel has flapperons, so your manual likely shows
this. There would likely be separate pages for the split flap mod...

In the standard setup, there is a Teleflex cable that runs
from the flap handle mounted in the front center of the cockpit roof,
down to the long bar that has the aileron bellcrank fastened to it
on the left rear side of the baggage area. The ailerons work as
normal ailerons, and, for flap action, the Teleflex cable pushes
the long bar down, moving the aileron bellcrank with it, effectively
lowering the whole flapperon. The flapperon sections are bolted
together on both sides of the short pushrod that comes out of the
bottom of the wing mid-point. This gap should be filled with a strip
of .020 or .025 aluminum on top, before assembly - be sure to run
the fairing far down the front of the aileron, and fasten it well.
(There is a <lot> of drag generated by the vortex coming out of this
gap, if it is not filled !) This vortex is MUCH worse if you use
split flaps - you might even notice a buffet on the tail !

You can get rid of all that heavy iron stuff for the split flaps,
and save some weight. The standard flap handle is just a doglegged
flat piece of aluminum about 8" long - there should be a template
for a straight flat bar in the manual. Do NOT do this - put about a
45 degree dogleg in the plate. This will make it much nicer to use.
Check the archives on the ftp site - I think I sent in a template
for the dogleg handle ...

Hope this helped .....

.....bobp

---------------------------------orig.--------------------------------------
At 01:02 AM 12/20/00 +0800, you wrote:

G'day

Thanks to all of you that have responded to my questions.

With regards to the fairings, I have found some full size paper patterns

and some instructions rolled up with the covering material.

Wayne has sent me some pics of the fairings on his 'plane and I now have a

better understanding. I don't know if the factory has supplied some aluminum
to make them out of, but the idea of using Lexan has some merit.

I have not yet come to an understanding of the flaps/flapperons, but I

think that I will take the advice of wiser heads and go the flapperon route.
Does anyone know, what I would need to change from what was supplied in the
kit, to alter to flapperons and in fact just what should I do? Do the
instructions in the manual refer to flaps or flapperons. They have really
confused me!

Thanks and Merry Christmas to all!

Regards

Ian Donaldson

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" http-equiv=Content-Type>
<META content="MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=2>G'day</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Thanks to all of you that have responded to my
questions.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>With regards to the fairings, I have found some full size
paper patterns and some instructions rolled up with the covering
material.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Wayne has sent me some pics of the fairings on his 'plane

and

I now have a better understanding. I don't know if the factory has supplied

some

aluminum to make them out of, but the idea of using Lexan has some
merit.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>I have not yet come to an understanding of the
flaps/flapperons, but I think that I will take the advice of wiser heads

and go

the flapperon route. Does anyone know, what I would need to change from
what was supplied in the kit, to alter to flapperons and in fact just

what

should I do? Do the instructions in the manual refer to flaps or flapperons.
They have really confused me!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Thanks and  Merry Christmas to all!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Regards</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Ian Donaldson</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></BODY></HTML>

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allsure · Post by **allsure** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:35 pm

G'day

Thanks to all of you that have responded to my questions.

With regards to the fairings, I have found some full size paper patterns and some instructions rolled up with the covering material.
Wayne has sent me some pics of the fairings on his 'plane and I now have a better understanding. I don't know if the factory has supplied some aluminum to make them out of, but the idea of using Lexan has some merit.

I have not yet come to an understanding of the flaps/flapperons, but I think that I will take the advice of wiser heads and go the flapperon route. Does anyone know, what I would need to change from what was supplied in the kit, to alter to flapperons and in fact just what should I do? Do the instructions in the manual refer to flaps or flapperons. They have really confused me!

Thanks and Merry Christmas to all!

Regards

Ian Donaldson

rebelair · Post by **rebelair** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:35 pm

Hi Bruce

Very similar with the Rebel. Usually have to give it a slight blip of power
3-400 max. just to arrest the sink rate at the proper moment to stop it
coming down to fast. Your timing must be good to keep the roll out short &
to prevent it from hammering on. When you kill the power the second time it
goes down quickly. Too much power in the flare and then you are floating
like a Cessna & it will take as much room as a Cessna to land.

Brian #328R

-----Original Message-----
From: Legeorgen@cs.com [mailto:Legeorgen@cs.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 9:29 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Wing assembly

Brian,

More on your STOL technique. When I am landing the Kitfox for as short a
roll
as possible (it too has a high sink rate like you described the Rebel, when
low and slow) I set up on final so as to drag the plane in with power
(behind
the power curve). When I'm at the right altitude and I want it to drop to
the
runway at the right spot I pull the power and it falls like a rock.
Hopefully
where I wanted it. Is this similar to your Rebel technique?

Bruce G 357R
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