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[rebel-builders] spring gear needed

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Ken

[rebel-builders] spring gear needed

Post by Ken » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:31 pm

Bummer!

I put a short 2x4 under the two carry throughs and use a jack under the
2x4. Or I put a 3x3 from the cage back to the bungee gear rear attach
point double bulkhead and place a jack near the carry throughs. If none
of that works then lift from the forward wing attach point or a rear
engine mount point. Such single point lifts allow raising the tail but
of course the machine must be securely blocked so it does not fall off
the jack. I throw concrete blocks or something under the cage as well
just in case if does fall as I'm already skinny enough. Lastly you can
put something under the main spar just outboard of the strut. Stabilize
that with a horizontal 2x4 back to the rear spar but lift at the main
spar (within about an inch). It is also easy for a couple of people to
lift the wing tip at the main spar, but even with a beer cooler nearby
my help usually starts complaining if I don't put something more
permanent in place after awhile...

Some folks subscribe to the theory that you should not paint until after
the first "adventure" but you didn't need to get that out of the way so
quickly Ron ;(

I assume you've ruled out a temporary repair to get it back to your
shop. Slightly bent parts can sometimes be quickly and cheaply checked
for cracks with dye penetrant from Spruce etc. Splints have been used
more than once as well.

Ken


Ron Shannon wrote:
I managed to ground loop my new Rebel on Friday and really need a spring
gear leg. Only need one, but will buy two, or even a whole spring gear
option kit, if available and/or seller prefers.

I won't get into specifics of how it happened. Strictly pilot stupidity --
no fault of the plane, which is a tough bird and much better designed (and
constructed!) than my brain. The story would probably cause anyone and
everyone to say, "I would never do that" or "That would never happen to me,"
-- which are dangerous things to think, ever and always -- so I'll spare the
details. Obviously, except for near terminal embarrassment and some lesser
degree of heartbreak, both fixable, I'm fine and know I'm not the first and
won't be the last to loop a taildragger.

The gear leg took the side load and bent a bit, as it's supposed to I guess.
The floor and FUS-5(?) appear to be just fine, thanks to extra strengthening
in the area by Jim years ago. I can jack the leg(s) OK, but would appreciate
any suggestions on supporting the fuse while the leg and original bolts are
swapped out. Other damage was minor and readily repairable, but the plane is
a few hours away so it will be a major hassle and probably a month or two
before I'm flying again -- if I can find a replacement spring gear leg.

If anybody has or knows of a spring gear leg (or two) that might be
available, please contact me direct at rshannon@cruzcom.com ASAP. I have
already written to MAM too, of course.

Ron


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J Portman

[rebel-builders] spring gear needed

Post by J Portman » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:31 pm

I looped my baby about three weeks into owning it. Folded the right gear and
busted some other sheet metal and wing tips, etc.

I ended up buying a complete new set of gear. I probably still have the old
unbent one around somewhere. You can have it if I can locate it.
JP

On Sun, 25 Jul 2010 08:02:22 -0700, Ron Shannon wrote
I managed to ground loop my new Rebel on Friday and really need a spring
gear leg. Only need one, but will buy two, or even a whole spring
gear option kit, if available and/or seller prefers.

I won't get into specifics of how it happened. Strictly pilot
stupidity -- no fault of the plane, which is a tough bird and much
better designed (and constructed!) than my brain. The story would
probably cause anyone and everyone to say, "I would never do that"
or "That would never happen to me," -- which are dangerous things to
think, ever and always -- so I'll spare the details. Obviously,
except for near terminal embarrassment and some lesser degree of
heartbreak, both fixable, I'm fine and know I'm not the first and
won't be the last to loop a taildragger.

The gear leg took the side load and bent a bit, as it's supposed to
I guess. The floor and FUS-5(?) appear to be just fine, thanks to
extra strengthening in the area by Jim years ago. I can jack the
leg(s) OK, but would appreciate any suggestions on supporting the
fuse while the leg and original bolts are swapped out. Other damage
was minor and readily repairable, but the plane is a few hours away
so it will be a major hassle and probably a month or two before I'm
flying again -- if I can find a replacement spring gear leg.

If anybody has or knows of a spring gear leg (or two) that might be
available, please contact me direct at rshannon@cruzcom.com ASAP. I have
already written to MAM too, of course.

Ron

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bransom

[rebel-builders] spring gear needed

Post by bransom » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:31 pm

Sorry to hear Ron ...that will take a couple weeks to sleep off, no doubt.
Glad no worse damage! Hang in there,
-Ben

On 7/25/2010 12:42 PM, baron@baron.com wrote to rebel-builders:
I looped my baby about three weeks into owning it. Folded the right gear
and
busted some other sheet metal and wing tips, etc.

I ended up buying a complete new set of gear. I probably still have the old
unbent one around somewhere. You can have it if I can locate it.
JP

On Sun, 25 Jul 2010 08:02:22 -0700, Ron Shannon wrote
I managed to ground loop my new Rebel on Friday and really need a spring
gear leg. Only need one, but will buy two, or even a whole spring
gear option kit, if available and/or seller prefers.

I won't get into specifics of how it happened. Strictly pilot
stupidity -- no fault of the plane, which is a tough bird and much
better designed (and constructed!) than my brain. The story would
probably cause anyone and everyone to say, "I would never do that"
or "That would never happen to me," -- which are dangerous things to
think, ever and always -- so I'll spare the details. Obviously,
except for near terminal embarrassment and some lesser degree of
heartbreak, both fixable, I'm fine and know I'm not the first and
won't be the last to loop a taildragger.

The gear leg took the side load and bent a bit, as it's supposed to
I guess. The floor and FUS-5(?) appear to be just fine, thanks to
extra strengthening in the area by Jim years ago. I can jack the
leg(s) OK, but would appreciate any suggestions on supporting the
fuse while the leg and original bolts are swapped out. Other damage
was minor and readily repairable, but the plane is a few hours away
so it will be a major hassle and probably a month or two before I'm
flying again -- if I can find a replacement spring gear leg.

If anybody has or knows of a spring gear leg (or two) that might be
available, please contact me direct at rshannon@cruzcom.com ASAP. I
have
already written to MAM too, of course.

Ron

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Ron Shannon

[rebel-builders] spring gear needed

Post by Ron Shannon » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:31 pm

Thanks, very, very much, JP. I will be happy to pay you for it. If you can
find it, I will be extremely grateful. Finding one is by far the biggest
problem in my predicament.

At the moment, 254R is stranded only 40 air miles from home, but three hours
each way by ground. Sorry I couldn't respond earlier. I just got back from a
long day of driving there and back, but did get in four solid hours of work.
There was a fairly light tip strike, but after getting the tip off
(repairable) I was able to confirm the wing end rib, flaperon hinge, and
rear spar are all undamaged, as I had hoped. Whew! It could have been a lot
worse. I have a hangar for a few days, and am scrambling for something a
little longer term, which looks promising.

If you do find the leg, you might want to just drop it off at a UPS Store,
or Mailboxes, Etc., and have them pack it up. It costs a bit, but I've
always had good results from that service, and I wouldn't want you to have
to go to a lot of trouble. I can reimburse you directly, or call the
packer/shipper with a credit card... whatever is most convenient for you.

It will be a great relief to find a gear leg. It looks like the rest will be
straightforward.

Ron



On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 1:42 PM, J Portman <baron@baron.com> wrote:
I looped my baby about three weeks into owning it. Folded the right gear
and
busted some other sheet metal and wing tips, etc.

I ended up buying a complete new set of gear. I probably still have the old
unbent one around somewhere. You can have it if I can locate it.
JP



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Drew Dalgleish

[rebel-builders] spring gear needed

Post by Drew Dalgleish » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:31 pm

Well that's a bummer Ron. I lift my plane from the front wing attach points
with nylon straps and a chain falls to the hangar ceiling. Like Ken said if
the bend isn't too sever just fly it home and work on it there.


At 08:02 AM 25/07/2010 -0700, you wrote:
I managed to ground loop my new Rebel on Friday and really need a spring
gear leg. Only need one, but will buy two, or even a whole spring gear
option kit, if available and/or seller prefers.

I won't get into specifics of how it happened. Strictly pilot stupidity --
no fault of the plane, which is a tough bird and much better designed (and
constructed!) than my brain. The story would probably cause anyone and
everyone to say, "I would never do that" or "That would never happen to me,"
-- which are dangerous things to think, ever and always -- so I'll spare the
details. Obviously, except for near terminal embarrassment and some lesser
degree of heartbreak, both fixable, I'm fine and know I'm not the first and
won't be the last to loop a taildragger.

The gear leg took the side load and bent a bit, as it's supposed to I guess.
The floor and FUS-5(?) appear to be just fine, thanks to extra strengthening
in the area by Jim years ago. I can jack the leg(s) OK, but would appreciate
any suggestions on supporting the fuse while the leg and original bolts are
swapped out. Other damage was minor and readily repairable, but the plane is
a few hours away so it will be a major hassle and probably a month or two
before I'm flying again -- if I can find a replacement spring gear leg.

If anybody has or knows of a spring gear leg (or two) that might be
available, please contact me direct at rshannon@cruzcom.com ASAP. I have
already written to MAM too, of course.

Ron
Drew



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Ron Shannon

[rebel-builders] spring gear needed

Post by Ron Shannon » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:31 pm

Thanks for the pointers, Ken. Certainly one or more of those methods will
work.

I have definitely ruled out trying to fly it back with the gear as is. I
didn't measure, but the right wheel is probably 3" or more closer to the
fuse than the left... making any landing attempt on it much more likely to
result in another, worse loop. Besides, the ~1/2" outer rim of the MAM wheel
rim is shredded (Carlisle tire rolled over but amazingly, is still fully
inflated, two days later!) so I still have to put a new wheel on anyway,
raising axle & brake issues, etc., etc. The travel for remote repair is a
hassle, but if I fix things where it is, the next flight should be a lot
less exciting. It's mostly disassembly & reassembly there, and what actual
repair work is needed can be done at home. So I don't need to move the whole
shop.

Nobody wants this experience at all, much less early. I have more than
enough tailwheel time to know the risks, causes and effects, and I've been
close enough to looping before to fully appreciate them. Regrettably, in the
classic accident scenario, I screwed up not one, but a series of decisions,
even before reaching the ground. No excuses. Onward.

Ron



On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 1:13 PM, Ken <klehman@albedo.net> wrote:
Bummer!

I put a short 2x4 under the two carry throughs and use a jack under the
2x4. Or I put a 3x3 from the cage back to the bungee gear rear attach
point double bulkhead and place a jack near the carry throughs. If none
of that works then lift from the forward wing attach point or a rear
engine mount point. Such single point lifts allow raising the tail but
of course the machine must be securely blocked so it does not fall off
the jack. I throw concrete blocks or something under the cage as well
just in case if does fall as I'm already skinny enough. Lastly you can
put something under the main spar just outboard of the strut. Stabilize
that with a horizontal 2x4 back to the rear spar but lift at the main
spar (within about an inch). It is also easy for a couple of people to
lift the wing tip at the main spar, but even with a beer cooler nearby
my help usually starts complaining if I don't put something more
permanent in place after awhile...

Some folks subscribe to the theory that you should not paint until after
the first "adventure" but you didn't need to get that out of the way so
quickly Ron ;(

I assume you've ruled out a temporary repair to get it back to your
shop. Slightly bent parts can sometimes be quickly and cheaply checked
for cracks with dye penetrant from Spruce etc. Splints have been used
more than once as well.

Ken



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J Portman

[rebel-builders] spring gear needed

Post by J Portman » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:31 pm

Before you get too far along, could a local machine shop straighten the leg
enough for a trip home? That is some mighty thick aluminum.

Just a thought. I'll be heading over to my hangar later today to look for the
old leg.

JP
On Mon, 26 Jul 2010 08:22:13 -0700, Ron Shannon wrote
Thanks for the pointers, Ken. Certainly one or more of those methods
will work.

I have definitely ruled out trying to fly it back with the gear as
is. I didn't measure, but the right wheel is probably 3" or more
closer to the fuse than the left... making any landing attempt on it
much more likely to result in another, worse loop. Besides, the
~1/2" outer rim of the MAM wheel rim is shredded (Carlisle tire
rolled over but amazingly, is still fully inflated, two days later!)
so I still have to put a new wheel on anyway, raising axle & brake
issues, etc., etc. The travel for remote repair is a hassle, but if
I fix things where it is, the next flight should be a lot less
exciting. It's mostly disassembly & reassembly there, and what
actual repair work is needed can be done at home. So I don't need to
move the whole shop.

Nobody wants this experience at all, much less early. I have more
than enough tailwheel time to know the risks, causes and effects,
and I've been close enough to looping before to fully appreciate
them. Regrettably, in the classic accident scenario, I screwed up
not one, but a series of decisions, even before reaching the ground.
No excuses. Onward.

Ron

On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 1:13 PM, Ken <klehman@albedo.net> wrote:
Bummer!

I put a short 2x4 under the two carry throughs and use a jack under the
2x4. Or I put a 3x3 from the cage back to the bungee gear rear attach
point double bulkhead and place a jack near the carry throughs. If none
of that works then lift from the forward wing attach point or a rear
engine mount point. Such single point lifts allow raising the tail but
of course the machine must be securely blocked so it does not fall off
the jack. I throw concrete blocks or something under the cage as well
just in case if does fall as I'm already skinny enough. Lastly you can
put something under the main spar just outboard of the strut. Stabilize
that with a horizontal 2x4 back to the rear spar but lift at the main
spar (within about an inch). It is also easy for a couple of people to
lift the wing tip at the main spar, but even with a beer cooler nearby
my help usually starts complaining if I don't put something more
permanent in place after awhile...

Some folks subscribe to the theory that you should not paint until after
the first "adventure" but you didn't need to get that out of the way so
quickly Ron ;(

I assume you've ruled out a temporary repair to get it back to your
shop. Slightly bent parts can sometimes be quickly and cheaply checked
for cracks with dye penetrant from Spruce etc. Splints have been used
more than once as well.

Ken

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Joel Jacobs

[rebel-builders] spring gear needed

Post by Joel Jacobs » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:31 pm

So sorry to hear about this Ron - and glad you are ok and the damage
is not too bad. Sounds like the beef-ups Jim did to the gear may have
saved the day. Hoping your repairs go smoothly..
Joel



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Ron Shannon

[rebel-builders] spring gear needed

Post by Ron Shannon » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:31 pm

I haven't really seriously considered a re-bend process. I'm no
metallurgist, but it doesn't seem like it would be good for that kind of
structure, particularly in aluminum, especially if multiple back and forth
bends were required to get the angles right. It's not like adjusting a steel
leaf tailspring... I think. Perhaps others on the list would know more about
that option. I can investigate, but have thought it would be a last resort,
after taking Eric up on his kind offer of temp use of his, if I can't find
another.

Have you had a chance to check the hangar yet? Thanks for your help.

Ron
N254MR


On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 8:34 AM, J Portman <baron@baron.com> wrote:
Before you get too far along, could a local machine shop straighten the leg
enough for a trip home? That is some mighty thick aluminum.

Just a thought. I'll be heading over to my hangar later today to look for
the
old leg.

JP


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Gary Wolf

[rebel-builders] spring gear needed

Post by Gary Wolf » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:31 pm

I have manufactured spring gearlegs from 6061 and would definitely not
recommend having someone try to straighten a gearleg cold. One time a fellow
had a hard enough landing to bend one leg up by 10 degrees and I attempted
to rend it back. It was necessary to bend a lot further than 10 degrees
because the material has to get past elastic deformation and into plastic
deformation.

In the process I went a couple degrees too far and had to reverse the
part to unbend. While doing that the material developed a small crack,
rendering it useless.

6061 work hardens very quickly and one cannot do many iterations before
it cracks. The exception is if the machine shop has it annealed, reforms it,
then has it heat treated back to T6 condition. But first check the surface
carefully to see if there is already a crack.

Gary Wolf




----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Shannon" <rshannon@cruzcom.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 10:46 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] spring gear needed

I haven't really seriously considered a re-bend process. I'm no
metallurgist, but it doesn't seem like it would be good for that kind of
structure, particularly in aluminum, especially if multiple back and forth
bends were required to get the angles right. It's not like adjusting a
steel
leaf tailspring... I think. Perhaps others on the list would know more
about
that option. I can investigate, but have thought it would be a last
resort,
after taking Eric up on his kind offer of temp use of his, if I can't find
another.

Have you had a chance to check the hangar yet? Thanks for your help.

Ron
N254MR


On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 8:34 AM, J Portman <baron@baron.com> wrote:
Before you get too far along, could a local machine shop straighten the
leg
enough for a trip home? That is some mighty thick aluminum.

Just a thought. I'll be heading over to my hangar later today to look for
the
old leg.

JP


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Garry Wright

[rebel-builders] spring gear needed

Post by Garry Wright » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:31 pm

I''m not sure what the material is but if it is 7075, re-bending is
definitely a no go. My machinist can tell the difference between the two by
sound. Striking 7075 like a gong gives a nice clear ringing note while 6061
tends to thunk. The gear is such a big piece I'm not sure this can be made
to work. In either case, a re-bend should only be a last desperate measure
to get a plane out of somewhere that it cannot be worked on. A couple of
years ago I did about 5 3 hour trips just to get my plane ready to limp
home. When I did limp home I was so confident about the fixes that I forgot
to listen for the one that was important until 10 minutes into the flight -
you really didn't have to listen very hard, and by then it was a no brainer.
Doing the work in Arlington will make the trip home a lot more pleasant.

G

On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 8:46 PM, Ron Shannon <rshannon@cruzcom.com> wrote:
I haven't really seriously considered a re-bend process. I'm no
metallurgist, but it doesn't seem like it would be good for that kind of
structure, particularly in aluminum, especially if multiple back and forth
bends were required to get the angles right. It's not like adjusting a
steel
leaf tailspring... I think. Perhaps others on the list would know more
about
that option. I can investigate, but have thought it would be a last resort,
after taking Eric up on his kind offer of temp use of his, if I can't find
another.

Have you had a chance to check the hangar yet? Thanks for your help.

Ron
N254MR


On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 8:34 AM, J Portman <baron@baron.com> wrote:
Before you get too far along, could a local machine shop straighten the
leg
enough for a trip home? That is some mighty thick aluminum.

Just a thought. I'll be heading over to my hangar later today to look for
the
old leg.

JP


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Keith Leitch

[rebel-builders] spring gear needed

Post by Keith Leitch » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:31 pm

Ron,
Sorry I didn't respond earleir but I am currently at Oshkosh and am headed back to MN in a few minutes. I have two sets of spring gear. One set is new and the other is on a "wrecked" Rebel I own. I may be willing to sell you the new set if you are interested. It'll be quite awhile til I get to the point of needing them and I can just order another set an "wait".
Let me know if


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