[rebel-builders] Frequent Wing Removal

[Ron Shannon]

Kory,

No doubt others are as glad as I am you're going to continue the project.
I'll leave it to others to respond to your very good question. Just wanted
to applaud your superb decision making (rescuing?) skills. :-) Keep at it
and oodles of REALLY good days are ahead.

Ron
254R


On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 11:22 AM, <flex@dcsol.com> wrote:

We're just getting ready to start the wings kit. Before I get too far
along,
had a couple questions from the folks who've been there.

I've got plenty of ideas for routing a conduit, wiring, etc. The archives
have
ben great for that stuff.

The questions I have at this stage mostly deal with constructing the wings
for ease of removal. I know the Murphy literature says the wings can be
removed/installed in about an hour. Is there anybody out there that
removes
their wings on a regular basis (like to store the aircraft at home or
trailer it)?
Any recommendations for quick-disconnects, or hardware mods to limit the
wear/tear on the spar attachments?

I've been told to completely forget about the idea of creating folding wing
attach points (like a Glastar/Sportsman), and as an aero engineer I know
the
analysis that should go into those parts to do it right... and I don't have
time
for that.

Any tips/tricks/ideas I can incorporate into our wings to improve the
process?

Thanks to all for the great advice I've gotten in the past. Sorry to post
the
message yesterday about selling the kit, but I think we've got it nailed
down.
Rough day.

~Kory
678E
Tucson, AZ

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[snowyrvr@mtaonline.net]

Having had mine off and on a few times now, I'd vote for never removing
them unless absolutely necessary. Steel bolt, aluminum fitting...hmmm. I
think using undersize fasteners until final attach helps but then you bring
up the challenge of drilling the holes out to a larger size accurately and
that's tricky especially on the fuse/strut attach fittings If you're
wondering how I know that I'll tell you. Even though I was careful and
used a drill block when I went to 3/8" holes, I managed to drill the pilot
side fittings at the fuselage slightly outboard drlling from the front. A
tiny bit there translates to a large amount of differnece where the strut
attaches to the wing (1"+). Still working on the solution to that one. I
don't want to preload the wing strut by moving it into a place it doesn't
want to be and then fastening it. Anyone done something like this before?
Craig



Original Message:
-----------------
From: flex@dcsol.com
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 10:22:04 -0800
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] Frequent Wing Removal


We're just getting ready to start the wings kit. Before I get too far
along,
had a couple questions from the folks who've been there.

I've got plenty of ideas for routing a conduit, wiring, etc. The archives
have
ben great for that stuff.

The questions I have at this stage mostly deal with constructing the wings
for ease of removal. I know the Murphy literature says the wings can be
removed/installed in about an hour. Is there anybody out there that
removes
their wings on a regular basis (like to store the aircraft at home or
trailer it)?
Any recommendations for quick-disconnects, or hardware mods to limit the
wear/tear on the spar attachments?

I've been told to completely forget about the idea of creating folding wing
attach points (like a Glastar/Sportsman), and as an aero engineer I know
the
analysis that should go into those parts to do it right... and I don't have
time
for that.

Any tips/tricks/ideas I can incorporate into our wings to improve the
process?

Thanks to all for the great advice I've gotten in the past. Sorry to post
the
message yesterday about selling the kit, but I think we've got it nailed
down.
Rough day.

~Kory
678E
Tucson, AZ



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[Ron Shannon]

Yup, I did it with the strut too. Had to make a third strut. (Back in early
'08, when struts & strut block parts were probably easier to get, though
even then it took 4-5 months.) Have a series of photos trying to explain how
to drill the strut blocks at http://n254mr.com/image/tid/9?page=22 It's not
as clear as I wanted it to be, but may help a little.

Ron


On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 11:51 AM, snowyrvr@mtaonline.net <
snowyrvr@mtaonline.net> wrote:

... A
tiny bit there translates to a large amount of differnece where the strut
attaches to the wing (1"+). Still working on the solution to that one. I
don't want to preload the wing strut by moving it into a place it doesn't
want to be and then fastening it. Anyone done something like this before?
Craig

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[Ken]

It may be slow but I drill such holes undersize, file them to get the
alignment correct at final assembly, then run an undersize reamer
through to insure the hole is round and the bolt is not sloppy.

I wonder if MAM would approve moving the strut on the strut fitting? ie
filing the upper and lower AN4 bolt holes sideways a bit. Or then
bumping them to AN5.

I have been known to bush holes with aluminum tubing but I'd want an
engineering analysis for wing struts. The last hole that I bushed was
drilling and reaming an AN5 float strut hole to get a light interference
fit for a piece of 3/8 aluminum tubing; then filing and reaming that to
the correct angle. More problematic with AN6 holes.

Strut fittings can be manufactured by anyone with a milling machine but
match drilling for the old AN4 bolt holes in the strut material may end
up no better than my suggestion above in paragraph 2. But you do get to
drill, file, and ream some more ;)

My wing fittings are tight enough (reamed 3 thou undersize) that I would
not even want to remove them once a year. Removing the wings means
fuel, wiring, fairings, torque tube connections as well as the strut
bolts. Not much of that will be quick or easy without a hangar,
manpower, and equipment. Nor is it all that easy to reduce the load to
zero for removing bolts without damaging the holes.

For slightly undersized or oversized fasteners don't forget to consider
metric parts. Also precision AN bolts (AN173 and AN174 ?) are typically
a couple of thou larger than AN3 and AN4.

Ken

snowyrvr@mtaonline.net wrote:

Having had mine off and on a few times now, I'd vote for never removing
them unless absolutely necessary. Steel bolt, aluminum fitting...hmmm. I
think using undersize fasteners until final attach helps but then you bring
up the challenge of drilling the holes out to a larger size accurately and
that's tricky especially on the fuse/strut attach fittings If you're
wondering how I know that I'll tell you. Even though I was careful and
used a drill block when I went to 3/8" holes, I managed to drill the pilot
side fittings at the fuselage slightly outboard drlling from the front. A
tiny bit there translates to a large amount of differnece where the strut
attaches to the wing (1"+). Still working on the solution to that one. I
don't want to preload the wing strut by moving it into a place it doesn't
want to be and then fastening it. Anyone done something like this before?
Craig



Original Message:
-----------------
From: flex@dcsol.com
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 10:22:04 -0800
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] Frequent Wing Removal


We're just getting ready to start the wings kit. Before I get too far
along,
had a couple questions from the folks who've been there.

I've got plenty of ideas for routing a conduit, wiring, etc. The archives
have
ben great for that stuff.

The questions I have at this stage mostly deal with constructing the wings
for ease of removal. I know the Murphy literature says the wings can be
removed/installed in about an hour. Is there anybody out there that
removes
their wings on a regular basis (like to store the aircraft at home or
trailer it)?
Any recommendations for quick-disconnects, or hardware mods to limit the
wear/tear on the spar attachments?

I've been told to completely forget about the idea of creating folding wing
attach points (like a Glastar/Sportsman), and as an aero engineer I know
the
analysis that should go into those parts to do it right... and I don't have
time
for that.

Any tips/tricks/ideas I can incorporate into our wings to improve the
process?

Thanks to all for the great advice I've gotten in the past. Sorry to post
the
message yesterday about selling the kit, but I think we've got it nailed
down.
Rough day.

~Kory
678E
Tucson, AZ

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