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[rebel-builders] control friction

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David A. Ricker

[rebel-builders] control friction

Post by David A. Ricker » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:19 pm

Stateside you may be able to pick it up at MSC.
http://www1.mscdirect.com/cgi/nnsrhm it'll be easier to find with the
P/N or exact name.

Wayne, any of these the right one?
http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/GSDRVSM?P ... 0135785085

Dave


Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:
I have a couple cases here Ron.. but don't think I can ship an aerosol can
to the USA in the mail anymore...

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Shannon" <rshannon@cruzcom.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 2:13 AM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] control friction


Eric, that may help with the right control column (elevator) bearing,
where
I have put in floor brackets to make the control column removable, but
friction in the left wing internal torque tube bearings is the main
problem,
and of course, I can't get at them without cutting some significant holes.
It may come to that eventually, but I'll try to get some of the Crown
silicone lube on them, and anything else I can think of, before doing
major
surgery.

I have now measured aileron (roll) friction as follows, in both cases
using
a digital fishing gauge pulling at the top of the (shortened) stick with
no
grip, at approx. 12.5" above the stick pivot:

1) With both wings disconnected at the wing root torque tube horns,
friction
in just the inside torque tube setup averages roughly 1 lb. 2 oz., and
increases slightly out near the stops. There is no appreciable friction in
the inside push pull tube bearings or bell cranks, so the great majority
of
that is probably at the hanger bolt and possibly a little in the guide
pin/bolts, which are still inserted in the wings, of course. Not good.

2) With both wings connected via their respective wing root torque tube
horns, the friction averages about 3 lb. 6 oz. for right aileron (left
aileron falling) and about 4 lb. for left aileron (left aileron rising).

These numbers are probably not real precise, but are certainly in the ball
park of repeatable scientific data, and certainly not good. The "squeal"
from the left wing torque tube bearings seems to come randomly from either
or both bearings, though always on the flaperon down motion and none on
the
upward motion.

Again, to repeat, there is no significant friction in the right wing, and
the left wing flaperon hinges are free and quiet when tested alone with
the
flaperon push pull disconnected, so the left flaperon hinges are not
contributing. The left wing torque tube bearings are stiff by themselves,
i.e., when disconnected from the fuse, etc. The spacers at the wing root
horns seem to fit well, so I don't think they are contributing to any
binding by spreading the horns apart or pulling them together out of their
natural positions.

I'm going to proceed incrementally, trying to lube places I can get to
first, like the guide pin bolts and hanger bolt -- to the extent I can get
something in the latter. Suggestions? Then will try to find some of the
Crown silicone lube and find some way(s) to get it to the left wing torque
tube bearings.

Does anyone know where I can get single cans of the Crown silicone lube?
All
I've found so far are 12-can case lots, at $70-80 ea. Thanks.

Ron
254R


On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 9:40 PM, Eric Fogelin <elist@whidbey.com> wrote:

Hey Ron.

Try loosening all of the bolts that hold the delrin bearings in place and
let them find their natural location. Study what needs to be done and
shim
using half washers as needed. A couple/few thin shims may take care of
your
problem.

Eric
N645E


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Ron Shannon

[rebel-builders] control friction

Post by Ron Shannon » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:19 pm

David -- I have ordered several things from MSC Direct -- IMHO a good outfit
-- but I don't see the Crown 205-8034G (or similar #) General Purpose
Silicone Lubricant there, or anything with the Crown brand. They do have
many others from other brands. I would think that one of them should be
equivalent to the Crown, but maybe not.

Ron


On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 7:48 PM, David A. Ricker
<daricker@ns.sympatico.ca>wrote:
Stateside you may be able to pick it up at MSC.
http://www1.mscdirect.com/cgi/nnsrhm it'll be easier to find with the
P/N or exact name.

Wayne, any of these the right one?
http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/GSDRVSM?P ... 0135785085

Dave



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Wayne G. O'Shea

[rebel-builders] control friction

Post by Wayne G. O'Shea » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:19 pm

Ron.. don't substitute. I went thru MANY different brands and formulations
to find something compatible with Delrin ....during our hay day in the
vertical blind business where the gear boxes would dry out in the sun and
screech worse than long nails on a chalk board. The Crown was the only
product that worked with Delrin! Some brands, like Champion's will even make
the delrin gooey as will a couple of Dows formulations.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Shannon" <rshannon@cruzcom.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 11:12 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] control friction

David -- I have ordered several things from MSC Direct -- IMHO a good
outfit
-- but I don't see the Crown 205-8034G (or similar #) General Purpose
Silicone Lubricant there, or anything with the Crown brand. They do have
many others from other brands. I would think that one of them should be
equivalent to the Crown, but maybe not.

Ron


On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 7:48 PM, David A. Ricker
<daricker@ns.sympatico.ca>wrote:
Stateside you may be able to pick it up at MSC.
http://www1.mscdirect.com/cgi/nnsrhm it'll be easier to find with the
P/N or exact name.

Wayne, any of these the right one?
http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/GSDRVSM?P ... 0135785085

Dave



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Ron Shannon

[rebel-builders] control friction

Post by Ron Shannon » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:19 pm

Understood. I am a believer! That was just a setup for you so nobody reading
this far down in this thread -- even years from now in the archives -- could
possibly be misled by any lack of clarity or emphasis on this point. :)
Thanks.

Ron


On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 8:22 PM, Wayne G. O'Shea <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>wrote:
Ron.. don't substitute. I went thru MANY different brands and formulations
to find something compatible with Delrin ....during our hay day in the
vertical blind business where the gear boxes would dry out in the sun and
screech worse than long nails on a chalk board. The Crown was the only
product that worked with Delrin! Some brands, like Champion's will even
make
the delrin gooey as will a couple of Dows formulations.




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craig

[rebel-builders] control friction

Post by craig » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:19 pm

Ron,

FYI, I'm still wiping Corrosion x off of my wings after more than a year.
It's seeping through chromated joined surfaces. Be careful if you ever plan
on paint! Craig
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Shannon" <rshannon@cruzcom.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 3:20 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] control friction

The Corrosion-X applied at the hanger and guide pins last night has had
several hours to migrate now, and it seems like maybe there's been a
little
more reduction in the flaperon (roll) control friction.

I was going to put off cutting the 1" flaperon hinge inspection holes in
the
bottom wing skin, but it seems they would probably provide a decent angle
to
spray something toward the torque tube bearings in the wing, so I'm going
to
cut those holes now instead of later.

I haven't found a source for single cans of the Crown silicone lube and
will
probably just go ahead and buy a 12-can case. I could sell the extra
single
cans to any other builders who might be interested, at my cost plus
shipping, which I'm guessing would be around $15 total for US addresses.
If
you might be interested in getting a can, please let me know off list by
direct email. Thanks.

Ron
254R




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Ron Shannon

[rebel-builders] control friction

Post by Ron Shannon » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:19 pm

I do know. I'm ahead of (behind?) you on this too. :) Which means I put some
-- well, too much -- in the elevators well over two years ago and there's
still a little coming out every now and then. :-/ Fortunately I don't plan
on painting anytime soon. I was extra careful with it around the torque tube
hanger. No spraying, just a few drops on a Q-tip.

At an EAA presentation here quite awhile back (too late to warn me) a
factory rep said C-X has been shown to migrate 30 plus inches across metal
surfaces on its own. I believe it. Won't hurt any electronics though. He
showed a video of an operating TV being lowered into a vat of the stuff --
with no effect on the electronics. The show went on.

Ron



On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 9:30 PM, craig <snowyrvr@mtaonline.net> wrote:
Ron,

FYI, I'm still wiping Corrosion x off of my wings after more than a year.
It's seeping through chromated joined surfaces. Be careful if you ever
plan
on paint! Craig



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Ken

[rebel-builders] control friction

Post by Ken » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:19 pm

I occasionally notice the Crown silicone in a hardware store or auto
supply store.
Some of us have sprayed corrosion-X inside wings without any adverse
affects that we know of. Almost 5 years ago for me and I certainly
sprayed the delrin... Is there any delrin in Cessna or Piper products
because they've used this stuff for many years.
Ken

Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:
Ron.. don't substitute. I went thru MANY different brands and formulations
to find something compatible with Delrin ....during our hay day in the
vertical blind business where the gear boxes would dry out in the sun and
screech worse than long nails on a chalk board. The Crown was the only
product that worked with Delrin! Some brands, like Champion's will even make
the delrin gooey as will a couple of Dows formulations.


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William Taft

[rebel-builders] control friction

Post by William Taft » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:19 pm

Hi google comes up with this
Shopping results for *crown silicone
lubricant*<http://www.google.com/products?hl=en&q= ... CCEQzAMwAg>
*Crown* General Purpose *Silicone Lubricants* - 8034
SEPTLS2058034<http://www.shoplet.com/afred2.xgi?pt=fr ... 58034/spdv>


$58.23 new - Shoplet.com
*Crown* 8034 Gen Purpose *Silicone* Lube (12
CAN)<http://www.toolfetch.com/Category/Lubri ... 5-8034.htm>


$50.55 new - Toolfetch.com
205-8034 General Purpose *Silicone Lubricants* - 16
oz.<http://www.reliablepaper.com/General_Pu ... 5-8034.htm>


$6.23 new - Reliable Paper
cheers
William Taft

On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 8:21 AM, Ken <klehman@albedo.net> wrote:
I occasionally notice the Crown silicone in a hardware store or auto
supply store.
Some of us have sprayed corrosion-X inside wings without any adverse
affects that we know of. Almost 5 years ago for me and I certainly
sprayed the delrin... Is there any delrin in Cessna or Piper products
because they've used this stuff for many years.
Ken

Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:
Ron.. don't substitute. I went thru MANY different brands and
formulations
to find something compatible with Delrin ....during our hay day in the
vertical blind business where the gear boxes would dry out in the sun and
screech worse than long nails on a chalk board. The Crown was the only
product that worked with Delrin! Some brands, like Champion's will even
make
the delrin gooey as will a couple of Dows formulations.


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David A. Ricker

[rebel-builders] control friction

Post by David A. Ricker » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:19 pm

Yeah, I didn't have the right code to search but a number of Crown SKUs
came up, guess the link below didn't work through the E-mail..

I found the nice 3M EXL deburring wheels at MSC though when I couldn't
find them elsewhere, good service too!

Cheers,

Dave

Ron Shannon wrote:
David -- I have ordered several things from MSC Direct -- IMHO a good outfit
-- but I don't see the Crown 205-8034G (or similar #) General Purpose
Silicone Lubricant there, or anything with the Crown brand. They do have
many others from other brands. I would think that one of them should be
equivalent to the Crown, but maybe not.

Ron


On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 7:48 PM, David A. Ricker
<daricker@ns.sympatico.ca>wrote:

Stateside you may be able to pick it up at MSC.
http://www1.mscdirect.com/cgi/nnsrhm it'll be easier to find with the
P/N or exact name.

Wayne, any of these the right one?
http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/GSDRVSM?P ... 0135785085

Dave




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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2831 - Release Date: 04/23/10 18:31:00



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Ron Shannon

[rebel-builders] control friction

Post by Ron Shannon » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:19 pm

I know it's easy to find (Google, etc., of course)... just not in single
cans. Reliable Paper shows a single can price, but only sells 12-can cases,
like the others.

Ron


On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 12:28 PM, William Taft <bill@kidzploration.com>wrote:
Hi google comes up with this
Shopping results for *crown silicone
lubricant*...
...
...




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Walter Klatt

[rebel-builders] control friction

Post by Walter Klatt » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:19 pm

I have been using silicone lubricant on my cables (where they go through
guides) and locks, etc, for some time, but have never tried it on the delrin
bearings. The stuff I have is called:
Amway
Wonder Mist
Silicone Lubricant & Rust Inhibitor

I think I bought it a hardware store a long time ago. The instructions say
it is good for wood, metal, rubber and painted surfaces.

Would this be different than the Crown product?

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Ron
Shannon
Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 4:55 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] control friction

I know it's easy to find (Google, etc., of course)... just not in single
cans. Reliable Paper shows a single can price, but only sells 12-can cases,
like the others.

Ron


On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 12:28 PM, William Taft
<bill@kidzploration.com>wrote:
Hi google comes up with this
Shopping results for *crown silicone
lubricant*...
...
...




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