[rebel-builders] Tailwheel Study

[Jeff Micheal]

Each to their own.......... there's opinions both ways on tail wheels.


On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 1:52 AM, Ian Donaldson <allsure@bigpond.net.au>wrote:

G'day

I had the standard MAM wheel on my Rebel and it gave lots of trouble,
despite my
regular maintenance on it. It broke the puny roll pin in the mechanism when
I
was landing and of course I got a spectacular ground loop.

I threw the wheel and the spring into the trash can and replaced the MAM
"spring" with just a single leaf car type spring, and the MAM wheel with a
Scott.

The difference in ground handling was immediately noticeable and I
recommend
this as a good modification.


Regards

Ian

Has anyone on this list actually had experience with this set-up

(positive

or negative)? It would be great to hear a first-hand account.

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[bransom]

I'm a little behind on keeping up here, so have a few late follow up
questions. First is on the Rebel tailwheel. This thread mentions the MAM
tailspring being aluminum. Mine is a two-leaf steel spring. So, are some also
steel? Does Bob P's advice to grind and taper apply to this too?
Thanks,
-Ben, 497R



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[Jeff Micheal]

Ben,

If you have a 2 leaf steel spring, then who ever built your plane change
from MAM's designed aluminum tail spring.

Cheers,
Jeff


On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 9:03 PM, <bransom@dcsol.com> wrote:

I'm a little behind on keeping up here, so have a few late follow up
questions. First is on the Rebel tailwheel. This thread mentions the MAM
tailspring being aluminum. Mine is a two-leaf steel spring. So, are some
also
steel? Does Bob P's advice to grind and taper apply to this too?
Thanks,
-Ben, 497R



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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

"Does Bob P's advice to grind and taper apply to this too?"

Definitely NOT.

As for the 2 leaf steel tail spring.. I think between the 5/8" slab of 7075
MAM supplied up through about 1994/5 and the next thicker slab of 7075 that
is supplied now, a few kits went out the door with a steel leaf spring.

----- Original Message -----
From: <bransom@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 12:03 AM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Tailwheel Study

I'm a little behind on keeping up here, so have a few late follow up
questions. First is on the Rebel tailwheel. This thread mentions the MAM
tailspring being aluminum. Mine is a two-leaf steel spring. So, are some
also
steel? Does Bob P's advice to grind and taper apply to this too?
Thanks,
-Ben, 497R



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[Tyler Coleman]

Dose any one now about a 4 cylinder Engenfeller suber out there. Looking for a substitute for the lycoming o-320 160 hp.

From: oifa@irishfield.on.ca
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Tailwheel Study
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 08:43:51 -0500

"Does Bob P's advice to grind and taper apply to this too?"

Definitely NOT.

As for the 2 leaf steel tail spring.. I think between the 5/8" slab of 7075
MAM supplied up through about 1994/5 and the next thicker slab of 7075 that
is supplied now, a few kits went out the door with a steel leaf spring.

----- Original Message -----
From: <bransom@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 12:03 AM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Tailwheel Study

I'm a little behind on keeping up here, so have a few late follow up
questions. First is on the Rebel tailwheel. This thread mentions the MAM
tailspring being aluminum. Mine is a two-leaf steel spring. So, are some
also
steel? Does Bob P's advice to grind and taper apply to this too?
Thanks,
-Ben, 497R



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_________________________________________________________________
Check your Hotmail from your phone.
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9712957



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[bransom]

Thanks Wayne, Jeff,
I'll leave the thing as is. It will happily be some of that tail weight to get me
through early landings.

My kit was new from MAM in 1995.
-Ben

On 3/8/2010 4:43 AM, oifa@irishfield.on.ca wrote to rebel-builders:

"Does Bob P's advice to grind and taper apply to this too?"

Definitely NOT.

As for the 2 leaf steel tail spring.. I think between the 5/8" slab of 7075
MAM supplied up through about 1994/5 and the next thicker slab of 7075

that

is supplied now, a few kits went out the door with a steel leaf spring.

----- Original Message -----
From: <bransom@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 12:03 AM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Tailwheel Study

I'm a little behind on keeping up here, so have a few late follow up
questions. First is on the Rebel tailwheel. This thread mentions the MAM
tailspring being aluminum. Mine is a two-leaf steel spring. So, are some
also
steel? Does Bob P's advice to grind and taper apply to this too?
Thanks,
-Ben, 497R



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[Gary Gustafson]

My tail wheel spring is fiberglass. When did MAM stop using
fiberglass tail springs and why. The reason that I ask is that I
am having trouble with the tail wheel breaking away on left hand
turns and when I look at it is seems that the tail spring is
twisting a bit when the catch mechanism does not release on a
shallower left hand turn. I have filed off some of the keeper and
that does not help much. Right hand turns seem to be okay and the
locking/break away mechanism appears to be symmetrical.

Should I be thinking about getting an aluminum or steel tail
spring or only make right hand turns. :-)

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Jeff
Micheal
Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 1:40 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Tailwheel Study

Ben,

If you have a 2 leaf steel spring, then who ever built your plane change
from MAM's designed aluminum tail spring.

Cheers,
Jeff


On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 9:03 PM, <bransom@dcsol.com> wrote:

I'm a little behind on keeping up here, so have a few late follow up
questions. First is on the Rebel tailwheel. This thread mentions the MAM
tailspring being aluminum. Mine is a two-leaf steel spring. So, are some
also
steel? Does Bob P's advice to grind and taper apply to this too?
Thanks,
-Ben, 497R



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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

I think the fiberglass spring went the way of the dough dough bird about the
time the kit went up in gross weight from 1550 to 1650... around 1992/93.
AULA kits were still being shipped with them in 1995.. but the rest were
getting the aluminum leaf.

Bob P loves those pieces of glass.... I on the other hand throw them in the
trash.. ..before they trash your rudder or more. Seen too many of them
delaminate and splinter apart torsionally.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Gustafson" <gargus@comcast.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 12:02 PM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Tailwheel Study

My tail wheel spring is fiberglass. When did MAM stop using
fiberglass tail springs and why. The reason that I ask is that I
am having trouble with the tail wheel breaking away on left hand
turns and when I look at it is seems that the tail spring is
twisting a bit when the catch mechanism does not release on a
shallower left hand turn. I have filed off some of the keeper and
that does not help much. Right hand turns seem to be okay and the
locking/break away mechanism appears to be symmetrical.

Should I be thinking about getting an aluminum or steel tail
spring or only make right hand turns. :-)

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Jeff
Micheal
Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 1:40 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Tailwheel Study

Ben,

If you have a 2 leaf steel spring, then who ever built your plane change
from MAM's designed aluminum tail spring.

Cheers,
Jeff


On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 9:03 PM, <bransom@dcsol.com> wrote:

I'm a little behind on keeping up here, so have a few late follow up
questions. First is on the Rebel tailwheel. This thread mentions the
MAM
tailspring being aluminum. Mine is a two-leaf steel spring. So, are
some
also
steel? Does Bob P's advice to grind and taper apply to this too?
Thanks,
-Ben, 497R



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[Gary Gustafson]

Thanks Wayne as I have been having trouble trying to get it to
work as well as the other tail draggers at the airpark. Yesterday
we pulled up to get fuel and the plane wanted to turn left into
the pumps so had to get out and lift the tail around. I can say
that the tail handles that I bought from MAM sure have come in
handy.

What tail spring do you (or anyone) recommend? I could order a
new one from MAM but not sure of the delivery time.

I see why the FAA requires 25 hours within 25 miles for experimentals
with a certified engine and prop. I have had several unexpected
minor things (nothing to do with flight characteristics) on my
plane so far. I guess one has to work out all the bugs on anything.

Thanks

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Wayne
G. O'Shea
Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 12:54 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Tailwheel Study

I think the fiberglass spring went the way of the dough dough bird about the

time the kit went up in gross weight from 1550 to 1650... around 1992/93.
AULA kits were still being shipped with them in 1995.. but the rest were
getting the aluminum leaf.

Bob P loves those pieces of glass.... I on the other hand throw them in the
trash.. ..before they trash your rudder or more. Seen too many of them
delaminate and splinter apart torsionally.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Gustafson" <gargus@comcast.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 12:02 PM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Tailwheel Study

My tail wheel spring is fiberglass. When did MAM stop using
fiberglass tail springs and why. The reason that I ask is that I
am having trouble with the tail wheel breaking away on left hand
turns and when I look at it is seems that the tail spring is
twisting a bit when the catch mechanism does not release on a
shallower left hand turn. I have filed off some of the keeper and
that does not help much. Right hand turns seem to be okay and the
locking/break away mechanism appears to be symmetrical.

Should I be thinking about getting an aluminum or steel tail
spring or only make right hand turns. :-)

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Jeff
Micheal
Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 1:40 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Tailwheel Study

Ben,

If you have a 2 leaf steel spring, then who ever built your plane change
from MAM's designed aluminum tail spring.

Cheers,
Jeff


On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 9:03 PM, <bransom@dcsol.com> wrote:

I'm a little behind on keeping up here, so have a few late follow up
questions. First is on the Rebel tailwheel. This thread mentions the
MAM
tailspring being aluminum. Mine is a two-leaf steel spring. So, are
some
also
steel? Does Bob P's advice to grind and taper apply to this too?
Thanks,
-Ben, 497R



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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

My favourite is still a three leaf trailer spring modified to fit and take a
Scott 3200 tailwheel. Fits right thru the tailspring holder at the fin.....
in place of the fiberglass or 5/8 aluminum springs. An Aeronca tailspring
will also work... with some mods to the mounting brackets at the fin post.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Gustafson" <gargus@comcast.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 2:12 PM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Tailwheel Study

Thanks Wayne as I have been having trouble trying to get it to
work as well as the other tail draggers at the airpark. Yesterday
we pulled up to get fuel and the plane wanted to turn left into
the pumps so had to get out and lift the tail around. I can say
that the tail handles that I bought from MAM sure have come in
handy.

What tail spring do you (or anyone) recommend? I could order a
new one from MAM but not sure of the delivery time.

I see why the FAA requires 25 hours within 25 miles for experimentals
with a certified engine and prop. I have had several unexpected
minor things (nothing to do with flight characteristics) on my
plane so far. I guess one has to work out all the bugs on anything.

Thanks

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Wayne
G. O'Shea
Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 12:54 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Tailwheel Study

I think the fiberglass spring went the way of the dough dough bird about
the

time the kit went up in gross weight from 1550 to 1650... around 1992/93.
AULA kits were still being shipped with them in 1995.. but the rest were
getting the aluminum leaf.

Bob P loves those pieces of glass.... I on the other hand throw them in
the
trash.. ..before they trash your rudder or more. Seen too many of them
delaminate and splinter apart torsionally.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Gustafson" <gargus@comcast.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 12:02 PM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Tailwheel Study

My tail wheel spring is fiberglass. When did MAM stop using
fiberglass tail springs and why. The reason that I ask is that I
am having trouble with the tail wheel breaking away on left hand
turns and when I look at it is seems that the tail spring is
twisting a bit when the catch mechanism does not release on a
shallower left hand turn. I have filed off some of the keeper and
that does not help much. Right hand turns seem to be okay and the
locking/break away mechanism appears to be symmetrical.

Should I be thinking about getting an aluminum or steel tail
spring or only make right hand turns. :-)

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Jeff
Micheal
Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 1:40 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Tailwheel Study

Ben,

If you have a 2 leaf steel spring, then who ever built your plane change
from MAM's designed aluminum tail spring.

Cheers,
Jeff


On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 9:03 PM, <bransom@dcsol.com> wrote:

I'm a little behind on keeping up here, so have a few late follow up
questions. First is on the Rebel tailwheel. This thread mentions the
MAM
tailspring being aluminum. Mine is a two-leaf steel spring. So, are
some
also
steel? Does Bob P's advice to grind and taper apply to this too?
Thanks,
-Ben, 497R



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[Ken]

I used two 1/4" thick steel leaf springs to get the same soft ride as
the fibreglass spring but think I'd also recommend three leaves.
My two leaves have a tendency to flatten out a bit about every 300 or so
landings which then leads to tailwheel shimmy until it is rebent or
replaced. So 3 leaves is likely perfect depending on the tailwheel etc.
I've never had any trouble turning though with the soft spring.
Ken

Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:

My favourite is still a three leaf trailer spring modified to fit and take a
Scott 3200 tailwheel. Fits right thru the tailspring holder at the fin.....
in place of the fiberglass or 5/8 aluminum springs. An Aeronca tailspring
will also work... with some mods to the mounting brackets at the fin post.

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[Ken]

Suggest you avoid Egenfelner completely. The 4 cylinder unit is no
longer in production AFAIK. If you can get one cheap enough (scrap
value), and throw the psru away, and do your homework, it could be a
good starting point. However the Egenfelner clan is quite secretive and
I'm only a casual observer of them.

Maxwell Propulsion has a unit that I would be willing to fly behind.
Last time I looked it was neither lighter nor cheaper than a Lyc.
However I like what they are doing and I can't say that about any other
commercial package. They are very open about the product and will sell
components separately if you don't want a complete package.

I sure like flying the water cooled EFI soob but the psru and
accessories are usually the weak spots.

A subsription to "Contact" magazine will tell you a lot. They also have
3 compendium books of past issues available.

Ken

Tyler Coleman wrote:

Dose any one now about a 4 cylinder Engenfeller suber out there.
Looking for a substitute for the lycoming o-320 160 hp.

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