[rebel-builders] Windshield install with Bostick - DON'T !

Ron Shannon · Post by **Ron Shannon** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:03 pm

Whew! That was close!! I was just pulling back on that caulking gun trigger
and... :-) Well, not for another day or two, but soon.

I have not forgotten the First Rule of Rebel Building (FRRB), but the manual
(Ch. 26.3, p. 3, 29/06/98) says to apply the (butyl rubber) sealant tape "to
the inside edges of Windshield at the sides and top only", then to use
liquid sealant on the "back of the fiberglass retainer and windshield edges"
and as a "final sealant" (presumably, wherever) and to use liquid sealant to
fill in here and there, like around the wing attach areas. Among other
things, "only" would seem to exclude the interface between the front
fiberglass retainer and the lower front face edge of windshield.

I know guessing the intent of the manual is hazardous duty, but what kind of
"liquid sealant" is the manual talking about? Only the fearless need apply.
:-)

Ron
254R

On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 5:17 PM, Wayne G. O'Shea <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>wrote:

So has anyone here that chose to install their windshield with Bostick 1100
had to remove a broken one yet and install a new one??

I feel for anyone that did.. and hasn't yet!!!!!!.. and sympathize with
those the did and have!

I sure wouldn't want to do one of these at a dock in God's country... and
sure glad I'm replacing the aluminum from the carrythrough to the first
bulkhead in the roof anyhow on this wreck rebuild!! I had to use a homemade
chisel.. 3 feet long... to hammer the retainer strip off the cabin roof.
There was no other way to move it...

Remember lads.. you aren't trying to make the windshield fully structural.
Use enough butylene tape (available from any auto window installer) to seal
the rain out.. nothing else. Retainers don't need much more than a bit
around each bolt hole in the roof.. or if you are riveting down the
retainers you don't need anything. Don't be sealing everything down with
Bostick... you WILL regret it... as you WILL damage your fuselage trying to
remove a broken windshield and it's retainers.

FWIW,
Wayne

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Wayne G. O'Shea · Post by **Wayne G. O'Shea** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:03 pm

Ron.. I take the 1" wide "tape" and cut it in half. That 1/2" strip goes
between the windshield sides and Fus-9... between the lower fiberglass
retainer and the windshield.. and between the windshield and the cabin roof
top. The metal retainers for both sides and the top get bolted (prefered
AN526-832) or riveted down.. with a thin weatherstrip foam on the leading
edge/underside of the retainer. Holds the windshield down nice...and doesnt'
rub/eat into the acrylic. You don't need anymore than that. The gap between
the upper windshield edge and cabin roof area around and beyond the front
wing attach can get filled by rolling a strip into a small long bead and
stuffing it against the windshield/opening... and around any wiring/pitot
lines/coax etc you might have running up thru there since there is a nice
gap for same.

You need nothing else.. it works well.. and if you do happen to do a hard
one wheel/float landing and crack the windshield you can easily unbolt the
retainers.. .leave the lower fiberglass one riveted in place and tip the
windshield out.. and tip the new one back in and replace the side and top
retainers. This Bostick install I just chiseled apart... well it's gonna
need new retainers.. ALL four!.. and the cabin roof replaced !

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Shannon" <rshannon@cruzcom.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 11:17 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Windshield install with Bostick - DON'T !

Whew! That was close!! I was just pulling back on that caulking gun
trigger
and... :-) Well, not for another day or two, but soon.

I have not forgotten the First Rule of Rebel Building (FRRB), but the
manual
(Ch. 26.3, p. 3, 29/06/98) says to apply the (butyl rubber) sealant tape
"to
the inside edges of Windshield at the sides and top only", then to use
liquid sealant on the "back of the fiberglass retainer and windshield
edges"
and as a "final sealant" (presumably, wherever) and to use liquid sealant
to
fill in here and there, like around the wing attach areas. Among other
things, "only" would seem to exclude the interface between the front
fiberglass retainer and the lower front face edge of windshield.

I know guessing the intent of the manual is hazardous duty, but what kind
of
"liquid sealant" is the manual talking about? Only the fearless need
apply.
:-)

Ron
254R

On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 5:17 PM, Wayne G. O'Shea
<oifa@irishfield.on.ca>wrote:

So has anyone here that chose to install their windshield with Bostick
1100
had to remove a broken one yet and install a new one??

I feel for anyone that did.. and hasn't yet!!!!!!.. and sympathize with
those the did and have!

I sure wouldn't want to do one of these at a dock in God's country... and
sure glad I'm replacing the aluminum from the carrythrough to the first
bulkhead in the roof anyhow on this wreck rebuild!! I had to use a
homemade
chisel.. 3 feet long... to hammer the retainer strip off the cabin roof.
There was no other way to move it...

Remember lads.. you aren't trying to make the windshield fully
structural.
Use enough butylene tape (available from any auto window installer) to
seal
the rain out.. nothing else. Retainers don't need much more than a bit
around each bolt hole in the roof.. or if you are riveting down the
retainers you don't need anything. Don't be sealing everything down with
Bostick... you WILL regret it... as you WILL damage your fuselage trying
to
remove a broken windshield and it's retainers.

FWIW,
Wayne

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Ron Shannon · Post by **Ron Shannon** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:03 pm

About a year and a half ago I spent hours combing the archives for tips on
windshield installation. I took snippets of various random messages on the
topic (including your advice liberally sprinkled throughout) and threw them
into a text file, which I still have, of course. Even though you're not
brave/reckless/bored enough to speculate about what MAM meant by "liquid
sealant", I commend you for being admirably consistent through the ages.
:-) I am going to follow your recipe as precisely as I can, which won't be
very precise, but hopefully good enough.

What's good for cleaning excess butyl sealant tape off the acrylic? My
collected notes aren't much help on that point. Not that I would ever make a
mess, of course, but....

Thanks.

Ron
254R

On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 8:29 PM, Wayne G. O'Shea <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>wrote:

Ron.. I take the 1" wide "tape" and cut it in half. That 1/2" strip goes
between the windshield sides and Fus-9... between the lower fiberglass
retainer and the windshield.. and between the windshield and the cabin roof
top. The metal retainers for both sides and the top get bolted (prefered
AN526-832) or riveted down.. with a thin weatherstrip foam on the leading
edge/underside of the retainer. Holds the windshield down nice...and
doesnt'
rub/eat into the acrylic. You don't need anymore than that. The gap between
the upper windshield edge and cabin roof area around and beyond the front
wing attach can get filled by rolling a strip into a small long bead and
stuffing it against the windshield/opening... and around any wiring/pitot
lines/coax etc you might have running up thru there since there is a nice
gap for same.

You need nothing else.. it works well.. and if you do happen to do a hard
one wheel/float landing and crack the windshield you can easily unbolt the
retainers.. .leave the lower fiberglass one riveted in place and tip the
windshield out.. and tip the new one back in and replace the side and top
retainers. This Bostick install I just chiseled apart... well it's gonna
need new retainers.. ALL four!.. and the cabin roof replaced !

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Shannon" <rshannon@cruzcom.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 11:17 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Windshield install with Bostick - DON'T !

Whew! That was close!! I was just pulling back on that caulking gun
trigger
and... :-) Well, not for another day or two, but soon.

I have not forgotten the First Rule of Rebel Building (FRRB), but the
manual
(Ch. 26.3, p. 3, 29/06/98) says to apply the (butyl rubber) sealant tape
"to
the inside edges of Windshield at the sides and top only", then to use
liquid sealant on the "back of the fiberglass retainer and windshield
edges"
and as a "final sealant" (presumably, wherever) and to use liquid sealant
to
fill in here and there, like around the wing attach areas. Among other
things, "only" would seem to exclude the interface between the front
fiberglass retainer and the lower front face edge of windshield.

I know guessing the intent of the manual is hazardous duty, but what kind
of
"liquid sealant" is the manual talking about? Only the fearless need
apply.
:-)

Ron
254R

On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 5:17 PM, Wayne G. O'Shea
<oifa@irishfield.on.ca>wrote:

So has anyone here that chose to install their windshield with Bostick
1100
had to remove a broken one yet and install a new one??

I feel for anyone that did.. and hasn't yet!!!!!!.. and sympathize with
those the did and have!

I sure wouldn't want to do one of these at a dock in God's country...
and
sure glad I'm replacing the aluminum from the carrythrough to the first
bulkhead in the roof anyhow on this wreck rebuild!! I had to use a
homemade
chisel.. 3 feet long... to hammer the retainer strip off the cabin roof.
There was no other way to move it...

Remember lads.. you aren't trying to make the windshield fully
structural.
Use enough butylene tape (available from any auto window installer) to
seal
the rain out.. nothing else. Retainers don't need much more than a bit
around each bolt hole in the roof.. or if you are riveting down the
retainers you don't need anything. Don't be sealing everything down with
Bostick... you WILL regret it... as you WILL damage your fuselage trying
to
remove a broken windshield and it's retainers.

FWIW,
Wayne

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Jones, Michael · Post by **Jones, Michael** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:03 pm

Wayne

I have checked several autoparts stores and cant find 1" or even 1/2"
butal tape, can only find round and square
Also how thick is the 1" you are using

Cheers

Mike#007

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: February 11, 2010 11:29 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Windshield install with Bostick - DON'T !

Ron.. I take the 1" wide "tape" and cut it in half. That 1/2" strip goes

between the windshield sides and Fus-9... between the lower fiberglass
retainer and the windshield.. and between the windshield and the cabin
roof
top. The metal retainers for both sides and the top get bolted (prefered

AN526-832) or riveted down.. with a thin weatherstrip foam on the
leading
edge/underside of the retainer. Holds the windshield down nice...and
doesnt'
rub/eat into the acrylic. You don't need anymore than that. The gap
between
the upper windshield edge and cabin roof area around and beyond the
front
wing attach can get filled by rolling a strip into a small long bead and

stuffing it against the windshield/opening... and around any
wiring/pitot
lines/coax etc you might have running up thru there since there is a
nice
gap for same.

You need nothing else.. it works well.. and if you do happen to do a
hard
one wheel/float landing and crack the windshield you can easily unbolt
the
retainers.. .leave the lower fiberglass one riveted in place and tip the

windshield out.. and tip the new one back in and replace the side and
top
retainers. This Bostick install I just chiseled apart... well it's gonna

need new retainers.. ALL four!.. and the cabin roof replaced !

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Shannon" <rshannon@cruzcom.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 11:17 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Windshield install with Bostick - DON'T !

Whew! That was close!! I was just pulling back on that caulking gun
trigger
and... :-) Well, not for another day or two, but soon.

I have not forgotten the First Rule of Rebel Building (FRRB), but the
manual
(Ch. 26.3, p. 3, 29/06/98) says to apply the (butyl rubber) sealant

tape

"to
the inside edges of Windshield at the sides and top only", then to use
liquid sealant on the "back of the fiberglass retainer and windshield
edges"
and as a "final sealant" (presumably, wherever) and to use liquid

sealant

to
fill in here and there, like around the wing attach areas. Among other
things, "only" would seem to exclude the interface between the front
fiberglass retainer and the lower front face edge of windshield.

I know guessing the intent of the manual is hazardous duty, but what

kind

of
"liquid sealant" is the manual talking about? Only the fearless need
apply.
:-)

Ron
254R

On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 5:17 PM, Wayne G. O'Shea
<oifa@irishfield.on.ca>wrote:

So has anyone here that chose to install their windshield with

Bostick

1100
had to remove a broken one yet and install a new one??

I feel for anyone that did.. and hasn't yet!!!!!!.. and sympathize

with

those the did and have!

I sure wouldn't want to do one of these at a dock in God's country...

and

sure glad I'm replacing the aluminum from the carrythrough to the

first

bulkhead in the roof anyhow on this wreck rebuild!! I had to use a
homemade
chisel.. 3 feet long... to hammer the retainer strip off the cabin

roof.

There was no other way to move it...

Remember lads.. you aren't trying to make the windshield fully
structural.
Use enough butylene tape (available from any auto window installer)

to

seal
the rain out.. nothing else. Retainers don't need much more than a

bit

around each bolt hole in the roof.. or if you are riveting down the
retainers you don't need anything. Don't be sealing everything down

with

Bostick... you WILL regret it... as you WILL damage your fuselage

trying

to
remove a broken windshield and it's retainers.

FWIW,
Wayne

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bill lowery · Post by **bill lowery** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:03 pm

Wayne,

Try a metal roofing supply house. 1/2 inch butal tape is used between the roof panels.

W.D. "Bill" Lowery
Cell: 407-947-5777

ICC General Contractors
3000 W. Osceola Rd.
Geneva, FL 32732

Tel: 407-349-2183
Fax: 407-349-0863

Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Windshield install with Bostick - DON'T !
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 07:05:42 -0500
From: Michael.Jones@snclavalin.com
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com

Wayne

I have checked several autoparts stores and cant find 1" or even 1/2"
butal tape, can only find round and square
Also how thick is the 1" you are using

Cheers

Mike#007

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: February 11, 2010 11:29 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Windshield install with Bostick - DON'T !

Ron.. I take the 1" wide "tape" and cut it in half. That 1/2" strip goes

between the windshield sides and Fus-9... between the lower fiberglass
retainer and the windshield.. and between the windshield and the cabin
roof
top. The metal retainers for both sides and the top get bolted (prefered

AN526-832) or riveted down.. with a thin weatherstrip foam on the
leading
edge/underside of the retainer. Holds the windshield down nice...and
doesnt'
rub/eat into the acrylic. You don't need anymore than that. The gap
between
the upper windshield edge and cabin roof area around and beyond the
front
wing attach can get filled by rolling a strip into a small long bead and

stuffing it against the windshield/opening... and around any
wiring/pitot
lines/coax etc you might have running up thru there since there is a
nice
gap for same.

You need nothing else.. it works well.. and if you do happen to do a
hard
one wheel/float landing and crack the windshield you can easily unbolt
the
retainers.. .leave the lower fiberglass one riveted in place and tip the

windshield out.. and tip the new one back in and replace the side and
top
retainers. This Bostick install I just chiseled apart... well it's gonna

need new retainers.. ALL four!.. and the cabin roof replaced !

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Shannon" <rshannon@cruzcom.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 11:17 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Windshield install with Bostick - DON'T !

Whew! That was close!! I was just pulling back on that caulking gun
trigger
and... :-) Well, not for another day or two, but soon.

I have not forgotten the First Rule of Rebel Building (FRRB), but the
manual
(Ch. 26.3, p. 3, 29/06/98) says to apply the (butyl rubber) sealant
tape
"to
the inside edges of Windshield at the sides and top only", then to use
liquid sealant on the "back of the fiberglass retainer and windshield
edges"
and as a "final sealant" (presumably, wherever) and to use liquid
sealant
to
fill in here and there, like around the wing attach areas. Among other
things, "only" would seem to exclude the interface between the front
fiberglass retainer and the lower front face edge of windshield.

I know guessing the intent of the manual is hazardous duty, but what
kind
of
"liquid sealant" is the manual talking about? Only the fearless need
apply.
:-)

Ron
254R

On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 5:17 PM, Wayne G. O'Shea
<oifa@irishfield.on.ca>wrote:

So has anyone here that chose to install their windshield with
Bostick
1100
had to remove a broken one yet and install a new one??

I feel for anyone that did.. and hasn't yet!!!!!!.. and sympathize
with
those the did and have!

I sure wouldn't want to do one of these at a dock in God's country...
and
sure glad I'm replacing the aluminum from the carrythrough to the
first
bulkhead in the roof anyhow on this wreck rebuild!! I had to use a
homemade
chisel.. 3 feet long... to hammer the retainer strip off the cabin
roof.
There was no other way to move it...

Remember lads.. you aren't trying to make the windshield fully
structural.
Use enough butylene tape (available from any auto window installer)
to
seal
the rain out.. nothing else. Retainers don't need much more than a
bit
around each bolt hole in the roof.. or if you are riveting down the
retainers you don't need anything. Don't be sealing everything down
with
Bostick... you WILL regret it... as you WILL damage your fuselage
trying
to
remove a broken windshield and it's retainers.

FWIW,
Wayne

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Drew Dalgleish · Post by **Drew Dalgleish** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:03 pm

Mike Check at a window store that does commercial work. I bought mine at
Fisher Glass in Goderich.

I have checked several autoparts stores and cant find 1" or even 1/2"
butal tape, can only find round and square
Also how thick is the 1" you are using

Cheers

Mike#007

Drew

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Wayne G. O'Shea · Post by **Wayne G. O'Shea** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:03 pm

The tape doesn't get messy. You install it.. the windshield.. bolt the
retainers down and then park the airplane facing the sun and it will soften
up the tape and you can then press on the inside lower of the windshield to
help stick it along the lower retainer. Over time the stuff grows a bit and
will ouz out along the edge of the retainer lightly.

If you ever need to clean anything off the windshield.. Lighter fluid is the
only thing I'll use.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Shannon" <rshannon@cruzcom.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 11:58 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Windshield install with Bostick - DON'T !

About a year and a half ago I spent hours combing the archives for tips on
windshield installation. I took snippets of various random messages on the
topic (including your advice liberally sprinkled throughout) and threw
them
into a text file, which I still have, of course. Even though you're not
brave/reckless/bored enough to speculate about what MAM meant by "liquid
sealant", I commend you for being admirably consistent through the ages.
:-) I am going to follow your recipe as precisely as I can, which won't
be
very precise, but hopefully good enough.

What's good for cleaning excess butyl sealant tape off the acrylic? My
collected notes aren't much help on that point. Not that I would ever make
a
mess, of course, but....

Thanks.

Ron
254R

On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 8:29 PM, Wayne G. O'Shea
<oifa@irishfield.on.ca>wrote:

Ron.. I take the 1" wide "tape" and cut it in half. That 1/2" strip goes
between the windshield sides and Fus-9... between the lower fiberglass
retainer and the windshield.. and between the windshield and the cabin
roof
top. The metal retainers for both sides and the top get bolted (prefered
AN526-832) or riveted down.. with a thin weatherstrip foam on the leading
edge/underside of the retainer. Holds the windshield down nice...and
doesnt'
rub/eat into the acrylic. You don't need anymore than that. The gap
between
the upper windshield edge and cabin roof area around and beyond the front
wing attach can get filled by rolling a strip into a small long bead and
stuffing it against the windshield/opening... and around any wiring/pitot
lines/coax etc you might have running up thru there since there is a nice
gap for same.

You need nothing else.. it works well.. and if you do happen to do a hard
one wheel/float landing and crack the windshield you can easily unbolt
the
retainers.. .leave the lower fiberglass one riveted in place and tip the
windshield out.. and tip the new one back in and replace the side and top
retainers. This Bostick install I just chiseled apart... well it's gonna
need new retainers.. ALL four!.. and the cabin roof replaced !

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Shannon" <rshannon@cruzcom.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 11:17 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Windshield install with Bostick - DON'T !

Whew! That was close!! I was just pulling back on that caulking gun
trigger
and... :-) Well, not for another day or two, but soon.

I have not forgotten the First Rule of Rebel Building (FRRB), but the
manual
(Ch. 26.3, p. 3, 29/06/98) says to apply the (butyl rubber) sealant
tape
"to
the inside edges of Windshield at the sides and top only", then to use
liquid sealant on the "back of the fiberglass retainer and windshield
edges"
and as a "final sealant" (presumably, wherever) and to use liquid
sealant
to
fill in here and there, like around the wing attach areas. Among other
things, "only" would seem to exclude the interface between the front
fiberglass retainer and the lower front face edge of windshield.

I know guessing the intent of the manual is hazardous duty, but what
kind
of
"liquid sealant" is the manual talking about? Only the fearless need
apply.
:-)

Ron
254R

On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 5:17 PM, Wayne G. O'Shea
<oifa@irishfield.on.ca>wrote:

and

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Wayne G. O'Shea · Post by **Wayne G. O'Shea** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:03 pm

I did a search last night on butal tape.. and that's what came up for me as
well...a putty tape. The stuff I'm using.. and what MAM use to put in kits..
was/is a black tacky tape. Maybe it has another name.. but like I said it's
what they use at the auto/boat windshield install places on jobs that don't
get the structual adhesive installs.

I give the local guy $10 for a full roll.

----- Original Message -----
From: "bill lowery" <wdl@msn.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 7:23 AM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Windshield install with Bostick - DON'T !

Wayne,

Try a metal roofing supply house. 1/2 inch butal tape is used between the
roof panels.

W.D. "Bill" Lowery
Cell: 407-947-5777

ICC General Contractors
3000 W. Osceola Rd.
Geneva, FL 32732

Tel: 407-349-2183
Fax: 407-349-0863

Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Windshield install with Bostick - DON'T !
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 07:05:42 -0500
From: Michael.Jones@snclavalin.com
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com

Wayne

I have checked several autoparts stores and cant find 1" or even 1/2"
butal tape, can only find round and square
Also how thick is the 1" you are using

Cheers

Mike#007

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: February 11, 2010 11:29 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Windshield install with Bostick - DON'T !

Ron.. I take the 1" wide "tape" and cut it in half. That 1/2" strip goes

between the windshield sides and Fus-9... between the lower fiberglass
retainer and the windshield.. and between the windshield and the cabin
roof
top. The metal retainers for both sides and the top get bolted (prefered

AN526-832) or riveted down.. with a thin weatherstrip foam on the
leading
edge/underside of the retainer. Holds the windshield down nice...and
doesnt'
rub/eat into the acrylic. You don't need anymore than that. The gap
between
the upper windshield edge and cabin roof area around and beyond the
front
wing attach can get filled by rolling a strip into a small long bead and

stuffing it against the windshield/opening... and around any
wiring/pitot
lines/coax etc you might have running up thru there since there is a
nice
gap for same.

You need nothing else.. it works well.. and if you do happen to do a
hard
one wheel/float landing and crack the windshield you can easily unbolt
the
retainers.. .leave the lower fiberglass one riveted in place and tip the

windshield out.. and tip the new one back in and replace the side and
top
retainers. This Bostick install I just chiseled apart... well it's gonna

need new retainers.. ALL four!.. and the cabin roof replaced !

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Shannon" <rshannon@cruzcom.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 11:17 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Windshield install with Bostick - DON'T !

Whew! That was close!! I was just pulling back on that caulking gun
trigger
and... :-) Well, not for another day or two, but soon.

I have not forgotten the First Rule of Rebel Building (FRRB), but the
manual
(Ch. 26.3, p. 3, 29/06/98) says to apply the (butyl rubber) sealant
tape
"to
the inside edges of Windshield at the sides and top only", then to use
liquid sealant on the "back of the fiberglass retainer and windshield
edges"
and as a "final sealant" (presumably, wherever) and to use liquid
sealant
to
fill in here and there, like around the wing attach areas. Among other
things, "only" would seem to exclude the interface between the front
fiberglass retainer and the lower front face edge of windshield.

I know guessing the intent of the manual is hazardous duty, but what
kind
of
"liquid sealant" is the manual talking about? Only the fearless need
apply.
:-)

Ron
254R

On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 5:17 PM, Wayne G. O'Shea
<oifa@irishfield.on.ca>wrote:

Bostick
with
and
first
roof.
to
bit
with
trying

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Wayne G. O'Shea · Post by **Wayne G. O'Shea** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:03 pm

CORRECTION !! It was pointed out I may have the wrong culprit. I was
thinking Bostick 1100 is the stuff MAM was shipping for a while after they
stopped putting the tape in the winsdhield install kits. I have realized
Bostick was what Bob P was recommending and not what MAM was shipping and
what the owner of this aircraft confirmed he used. "The tube that came from
MAM". I don't remember what it was called... if my memory serves me right,
as I think I threw the tube out that I had and never used as it had gone
hard. Pretty sure that it was in a goldish and black coloured tube. May have
been labelled Butylene structural adhesive. Maybe Jeff can recollect what as
being used around/shipped from the plant?!?

The main think I'm trying to point out I guess... is that there is no need
to bond down the side retainers or the top retainer. You want these to come
off fairly effortlessly so that you can easily pull the windshield out in
the two pieces, or so, that it's in.....then tape them together and use it
as a pattern to cut your new one (butchers paper thrown over the front of
the old.... pleated here and there with tape to fit the curves.. works great
to make a transferrable pattern). Now if you stick one in like this one
was.... if the windshield hadn't already been in multiple pieces.. it would
have been by the time I got it pulled off the aluminum.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 9:58 AM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Windshield install with Bostick - DON'T !

I did a search last night on butal tape.. and that's what came up for me as
well...a putty tape. The stuff I'm using.. and what MAM use to put in
kits..
was/is a black tacky tape. Maybe it has another name.. but like I said
it's
what they use at the auto/boat windshield install places on jobs that
don't
get the structual adhesive installs.

I give the local guy $10 for a full roll.

----- Original Message -----
From: "bill lowery" <wdl@msn.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 7:23 AM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Windshield install with Bostick - DON'T !

Wayne,

Try a metal roofing supply house. 1/2 inch butal tape is used between the
roof panels.

W.D. "Bill" Lowery
Cell: 407-947-5777

ICC General Contractors
3000 W. Osceola Rd.
Geneva, FL 32732

Tel: 407-349-2183
Fax: 407-349-0863

Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Windshield install with Bostick - DON'T !
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 07:05:42 -0500
From: Michael.Jones@snclavalin.com
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com

Wayne

I have checked several autoparts stores and cant find 1" or even 1/2"
butal tape, can only find round and square
Also how thick is the 1" you are using

Cheers

Mike#007

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: February 11, 2010 11:29 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Windshield install with Bostick - DON'T !

Ron.. I take the 1" wide "tape" and cut it in half. That 1/2" strip goes

between the windshield sides and Fus-9... between the lower fiberglass
retainer and the windshield.. and between the windshield and the cabin
roof
top. The metal retainers for both sides and the top get bolted (prefered

AN526-832) or riveted down.. with a thin weatherstrip foam on the
leading
edge/underside of the retainer. Holds the windshield down nice...and
doesnt'
rub/eat into the acrylic. You don't need anymore than that. The gap
between
the upper windshield edge and cabin roof area around and beyond the
front
wing attach can get filled by rolling a strip into a small long bead and

stuffing it against the windshield/opening... and around any
wiring/pitot
lines/coax etc you might have running up thru there since there is a
nice
gap for same.

You need nothing else.. it works well.. and if you do happen to do a
hard
one wheel/float landing and crack the windshield you can easily unbolt
the
retainers.. .leave the lower fiberglass one riveted in place and tip the

windshield out.. and tip the new one back in and replace the side and
top
retainers. This Bostick install I just chiseled apart... well it's gonna

need new retainers.. ALL four!.. and the cabin roof replaced !

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Shannon" <rshannon@cruzcom.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 11:17 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Windshield install with Bostick - DON'T !

tape sealant kind Bostick with and first roof. to bit with trying

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Wayne G. O'Shea · Post by **Wayne G. O'Shea** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:03 pm

A couple pics showing what shouldn't be normal windshield and retainer
removal methods!.. and the damage it causes. Tried a good knife to cut the
sealant first.. but no way that was gonna work (nor is the knife ever
again!)

http://www.irishfield.on.ca/gallery/win ... chisel.jpg

http://www.irishfield.on.ca/gallery/win ... damage.jpg

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 10:10 AM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Windshield install with Bostick - DON'T !

CORRECTION !! It was pointed out I may have the wrong culprit. I was
thinking Bostick 1100 is the stuff MAM was shipping for a while after they
stopped putting the tape in the winsdhield install kits. I have realized
Bostick was what Bob P was recommending and not what MAM was shipping and
what the owner of this aircraft confirmed he used. "The tube that came
from
MAM". I don't remember what it was called... if my memory serves me right,
as I think I threw the tube out that I had and never used as it had gone
hard. Pretty sure that it was in a goldish and black coloured tube. May
have
been labelled Butylene structural adhesive. Maybe Jeff can recollect what
as
being used around/shipped from the plant?!?

The main think I'm trying to point out I guess... is that there is no need
to bond down the side retainers or the top retainer. You want these to
come
off fairly effortlessly so that you can easily pull the windshield out in
the two pieces, or so, that it's in.....then tape them together and use it
as a pattern to cut your new one (butchers paper thrown over the front of
the old.... pleated here and there with tape to fit the curves.. works
great
to make a transferrable pattern). Now if you stick one in like this one
was.... if the windshield hadn't already been in multiple pieces.. it
would
have been by the time I got it pulled off the aluminum.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 9:58 AM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Windshield install with Bostick - DON'T !

I did a search last night on butal tape.. and that's what came up for me
as
well...a putty tape. The stuff I'm using.. and what MAM use to put in
kits..
was/is a black tacky tape. Maybe it has another name.. but like I said
it's
what they use at the auto/boat windshield install places on jobs that
don't
get the structual adhesive installs.

I give the local guy $10 for a full roll.

----- Original Message -----
From: "bill lowery" <wdl@msn.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 7:23 AM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Windshield install with Bostick - DON'T !

Wayne,

Try a metal roofing supply house. 1/2 inch butal tape is used between
the
roof panels.

W.D. "Bill" Lowery
Cell: 407-947-5777

ICC General Contractors
3000 W. Osceola Rd.
Geneva, FL 32732

Tel: 407-349-2183
Fax: 407-349-0863

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Jones, Michael · Post by **Jones, Michael** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:03 pm

Should the top of the windshield sit flush on top of the roof all the
way to the front edge of the cabin roof

cheers

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: February 12, 2010 10:20 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Windshield install with Bostick - DON'T !

A couple pics showing what shouldn't be normal windshield and retainer
removal methods!.. and the damage it causes. Tried a good knife to cut
the
sealant first.. but no way that was gonna work (nor is the knife ever
again!)

http://www.irishfield.on.ca/gallery/win ... chisel.jpg

http://www.irishfield.on.ca/gallery/win ... damage.jpg

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 10:10 AM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Windshield install with Bostick - DON'T !

CORRECTION !! It was pointed out I may have the wrong culprit. I was
thinking Bostick 1100 is the stuff MAM was shipping for a while after

they

stopped putting the tape in the winsdhield install kits. I have

realized

Bostick was what Bob P was recommending and not what MAM was shipping

and

what the owner of this aircraft confirmed he used. "The tube that came

from
MAM". I don't remember what it was called... if my memory serves me

right,

as I think I threw the tube out that I had and never used as it had

gone

hard. Pretty sure that it was in a goldish and black coloured tube.

May

have
been labelled Butylene structural adhesive. Maybe Jeff can recollect

what

as
being used around/shipped from the plant?!?

The main think I'm trying to point out I guess... is that there is no

need

to bond down the side retainers or the top retainer. You want these to

come
off fairly effortlessly so that you can easily pull the windshield out

in

the two pieces, or so, that it's in.....then tape them together and

use it

as a pattern to cut your new one (butchers paper thrown over the front

of

the old.... pleated here and there with tape to fit the curves.. works

great
to make a transferrable pattern). Now if you stick one in like this

one

was.... if the windshield hadn't already been in multiple pieces.. it
would
have been by the time I got it pulled off the aluminum.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 9:58 AM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Windshield install with Bostick - DON'T

!

I did a search last night on butal tape.. and that's what came up for

me

as
well...a putty tape. The stuff I'm using.. and what MAM use to put in
kits..
was/is a black tacky tape. Maybe it has another name.. but like I

said

it's
what they use at the auto/boat windshield install places on jobs that
don't
get the structual adhesive installs.

I give the local guy $10 for a full roll.

----- Original Message -----
From: "bill lowery" <wdl@msn.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 7:23 AM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Windshield install with Bostick - DON'T

!

Wayne,

Try a metal roofing supply house. 1/2 inch butal tape is used

between

the
roof panels.

W.D. "Bill" Lowery
Cell: 407-947-5777

ICC General Contractors
3000 W. Osceola Rd.
Geneva, FL 32732

Tel: 407-349-2183
Fax: 407-349-0863

DON'T !

1/2"

Of

DON'T !

fiberglass

cabin

nice...and

bead

a

unbolt

tip

and

DON'T !

gun

the

sealant

to

windshield

front

what

need

sympathize

the

a

cabin

installer)

a

the

down

fuselage

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Bob Palmer · Post by **Bob Palmer** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:03 pm

Wayne,

Did you happen to try a length of lock wire between to handles and
sawing it back and forth?

Bob.

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Wayne G. O'Shea · Post by **Wayne G. O'Shea** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:03 pm

This stuff was hard as a rock and the retainer down TIGHT.. don't think that
would have worked even with the winshield busted out of it.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Palmer" <rtpalmer@shaw.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 2:04 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Windshield install with Bostick - DON'T !

Wayne,

Did you happen to try a length of lock wire between to handles and
sawing it back and forth?

Bob.

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Bob Palmer · Post by **Bob Palmer** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:03 pm

Wayne,

Your probably right. Lock wire would be too thick. If anyone is faced
with this problem I would try to cut it with a single strand from a
short length of aircraft cable. Might work.

Bob.

G. O'Shea wrote:

This stuff was hard as a rock and the retainer down TIGHT.. don't think that
would have worked even with the winshield busted out of it.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Palmer" <rtpalmer@shaw.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 2:04 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Windshield install with Bostick - DON'T !

Wayne,

Did you happen to try a length of lock wire between to handles and
sawing it back and forth?

Bob.

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Wayne G. O'Shea · Post by **Wayne G. O'Shea** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:03 pm

It's an 1/8" thick Mike.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jones, Michael" <Michael.Jones@snclavalin.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 7:05 AM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Windshield install with Bostick - DON'T !

Wayne

I have checked several autoparts stores and cant find 1" or even 1/2"
butal tape, can only find round and square
Also how thick is the 1" you are using

Cheers

Mike#007

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: February 11, 2010 11:29 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Windshield install with Bostick - DON'T !

Ron.. I take the 1" wide "tape" and cut it in half. That 1/2" strip goes

between the windshield sides and Fus-9... between the lower fiberglass
retainer and the windshield.. and between the windshield and the cabin
roof
top. The metal retainers for both sides and the top get bolted (prefered

AN526-832) or riveted down.. with a thin weatherstrip foam on the
leading
edge/underside of the retainer. Holds the windshield down nice...and
doesnt'
rub/eat into the acrylic. You don't need anymore than that. The gap
between
the upper windshield edge and cabin roof area around and beyond the
front
wing attach can get filled by rolling a strip into a small long bead and

stuffing it against the windshield/opening... and around any
wiring/pitot
lines/coax etc you might have running up thru there since there is a
nice
gap for same.

You need nothing else.. it works well.. and if you do happen to do a
hard
one wheel/float landing and crack the windshield you can easily unbolt
the
retainers.. .leave the lower fiberglass one riveted in place and tip the

windshield out.. and tip the new one back in and replace the side and
top
retainers. This Bostick install I just chiseled apart... well it's gonna

need new retainers.. ALL four!.. and the cabin roof replaced !

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Shannon" <rshannon@cruzcom.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 11:17 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Windshield install with Bostick - DON'T !

Whew! That was close!! I was just pulling back on that caulking gun
trigger
and... :-) Well, not for another day or two, but soon.

I have not forgotten the First Rule of Rebel Building (FRRB), but the
manual
(Ch. 26.3, p. 3, 29/06/98) says to apply the (butyl rubber) sealant
tape
"to
the inside edges of Windshield at the sides and top only", then to use
liquid sealant on the "back of the fiberglass retainer and windshield
edges"
and as a "final sealant" (presumably, wherever) and to use liquid
sealant
to
fill in here and there, like around the wing attach areas. Among other
things, "only" would seem to exclude the interface between the front
fiberglass retainer and the lower front face edge of windshield.

I know guessing the intent of the manual is hazardous duty, but what
kind
of
"liquid sealant" is the manual talking about? Only the fearless need
apply.
:-)

Ron
254R

On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 5:17 PM, Wayne G. O'Shea
<oifa@irishfield.on.ca>wrote:

So has anyone here that chose to install their windshield with
Bostick
1100
had to remove a broken one yet and install a new one??

I feel for anyone that did.. and hasn't yet!!!!!!.. and sympathize
with
those the did and have!

I sure wouldn't want to do one of these at a dock in God's country...
and
sure glad I'm replacing the aluminum from the carrythrough to the
first
bulkhead in the roof anyhow on this wreck rebuild!! I had to use a
homemade
chisel.. 3 feet long... to hammer the retainer strip off the cabin
roof.
There was no other way to move it...

Remember lads.. you aren't trying to make the windshield fully
structural.
Use enough butylene tape (available from any auto window installer)
to
seal
the rain out.. nothing else. Retainers don't need much more than a
bit
around each bolt hole in the roof.. or if you are riveting down the
retainers you don't need anything. Don't be sealing everything down
with
Bostick... you WILL regret it... as you WILL damage your fuselage
trying
to
remove a broken windshield and it's retainers.

FWIW,
Wayne

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