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[rebel-builders] Trim Wiring (and wing wiring)

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Jesse Jenks

[rebel-builders] Trim Wiring (and wing wiring)

Post by Jesse Jenks » Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:54 pm

All this talk of wiring is timely for me as I am beginning to seriously consider my electrical system. While looking at my wings sitting there against the wall in my living room, I had one of those brain flash ideas. Maybe it's no good, but...for people who haven't built in any conduit in the wings for nav/strobes, wingtip landing lights, and dipole antennas mounted in the tips; why not run wire down the aft upper side of the rear spar, nestled up under the flaperon gap seal? There has to be a good bit of space there in front of the flaperons. It would make for a very simple and inspectable/replaceable routing straight into the cabin. I have aluminum conduit from the upper strut attach out to the tips, but I may now use this new idea at least for some of the wires, especially If I have antennas in the tips because the antenna cable is so fat, it seems to want as simple a routing as possible.
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 11:30:43 -0500
From: klehman@albedo.net
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Trim Wiring

The multi conductor cable from MAC will likely last forever. It is 26 or
24 awg. The elevator does not move all that many full cycles for finely
stranded wire, especially if the cable does not have to flex at a tight
bend. My cable goes out the very aft end of the Rebel fuselage beside
the tail post and under the stab fairing then into the side of the
elevator. I put a connector inside the fuselage for removing the
elevator. Rubber grommets worked fine with an adel clamp at the fus exit
and access is no problem if the wire ever needs to be replaced. I will
be very surprised if the cable ever fails with such gentle bending. A
failed cable should be no big deal as the trim should stay where it is.
An unlikely short or a failed switch could drive it to an end position
but that is why we should mechanically limit the possible travel. I
merely used the outer hole in the trim tab horn.

All my fiberglass tips are fastened with nutplates or clipnuts. At 3.5
years and 320 hours I don't think I've actually removed any of them yet
but when I do it will not mess up the paint.

For wires in the fuselage I would recommend running them through
grommets in the bulkheads down the exposed sides of the fuselage where
possible. If buried in the floor or anywhere, smooth plastic conduit is
worth considering so that wires can be replaced or additional wires can
be installed. Sooner or later you will want another wire for some new
toy. Don't rule out running wires up the forward side of the door post,
over the top carry through, down through the roof, and then rearward
above the door frame. The windshield that goes aft over top of the
forward skylights on a Rebel leaves ample room to do this.

Ken

mikeh@dcsol.com wrote:
Hi all,
I've been starting to think about this too. Has anyone had trouble
with wire breakage due to the continuous movement of the elevator? I've
been thinking of using a couple of plug in connectors, one on the elevator
and the other probably on the horizontal bulkhead behind the fairing. This
would allow the easy removal of the elevator as well as easy replacement of
that section of cable which may fail after many cyclings of the elevator. I
may even keep a replacement part in the tool kit.
Easy removal of the elevator requires easy removal of the elevator
tip........... I'm still thinking on this one.
I had been thinking of running trim the cable up the fuse through
rubber grommets in holes in the bulkheads beneath the floor.
Any comments? Cheers Mike

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Bob Palmer

[rebel-builders] Trim Wiring (and wing wiring)

Post by Bob Palmer » Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:54 pm

How about in front of the front spar inside the wing.


Jesse Jenks wrote:
All this talk of wiring is timely for me as I am beginning to seriously consider my electrical system. While looking at my wings sitting there against the wall in my living room, I had one of those brain flash ideas. Maybe it's no good, but...for people who haven't built in any conduit in the wings for nav/strobes, wingtip landing lights, and dipole antennas mounted in the tips; why not run wire down the aft upper side of the rear spar, nestled up under the flaperon gap seal? There has to be a good bit of space there in front of the flaperons. It would make for a very simple and inspectable/replaceable routing straight into the cabin. I have aluminum conduit from the upper strut attach out to the tips, but I may now use this new idea at least for some of the wires, especially If I have antennas in the tips because the antenna cable is so fat, it seems to want as simple a routing as possible.

Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 11:30:43 -0500
From: klehman@albedo.net
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Trim Wiring

The multi conductor cable from MAC will likely last forever. It is 26 or
24 awg. The elevator does not move all that many full cycles for finely
stranded wire, especially if the cable does not have to flex at a tight
bend. My cable goes out the very aft end of the Rebel fuselage beside
the tail post and under the stab fairing then into the side of the
elevator. I put a connector inside the fuselage for removing the
elevator. Rubber grommets worked fine with an adel clamp at the fus exit
and access is no problem if the wire ever needs to be replaced. I will
be very surprised if the cable ever fails with such gentle bending. A
failed cable should be no big deal as the trim should stay where it is.
An unlikely short or a failed switch could drive it to an end position
but that is why we should mechanically limit the possible travel. I
merely used the outer hole in the trim tab horn.

All my fiberglass tips are fastened with nutplates or clipnuts. At 3.5
years and 320 hours I don't think I've actually removed any of them yet
but when I do it will not mess up the paint.

For wires in the fuselage I would recommend running them through
grommets in the bulkheads down the exposed sides of the fuselage where
possible. If buried in the floor or anywhere, smooth plastic conduit is
worth considering so that wires can be replaced or additional wires can
be installed. Sooner or later you will want another wire for some new
toy. Don't rule out running wires up the forward side of the door post,
over the top carry through, down through the roof, and then rearward
above the door frame. The windshield that goes aft over top of the
forward skylights on a Rebel leaves ample room to do this.

Ken

mikeh@dcsol.com wrote:
Hi all,
I've been starting to think about this too. Has anyone had trouble
with wire breakage due to the continuous movement of the elevator? I've
been thinking of using a couple of plug in connectors, one on the elevator
and the other probably on the horizontal bulkhead behind the fairing. This
would allow the easy removal of the elevator as well as easy replacement of
that section of cable which may fail after many cyclings of the elevator. I
may even keep a replacement part in the tool kit.
Easy removal of the elevator requires easy removal of the elevator
tip........... I'm still thinking on this one.
I had been thinking of running trim the cable up the fuse through
rubber grommets in holes in the bulkheads beneath the floor.
Any comments? Cheers Mike

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Russell Burnard

[rebel-builders] Trim Wiring (and wing wiring)

Post by Russell Burnard » Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:54 pm

When I restored my PA 12 wings and added landing lights to both wings I used clear plastic flexible tubing for conduit and it worked great.

Russ




From: jessejenks@hotmail.com
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Trim Wiring (and wing wiring)
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 09:49:01 -0800


All this talk of wiring is timely for me as I am beginning to seriously consider my electrical system. While looking at my wings sitting there against the wall in my living room, I had one of those brain flash ideas. Maybe it's no good, but...for people who haven't built in any conduit in the wings for nav/strobes, wingtip landing lights, and dipole antennas mounted in the tips; why not run wire down the aft upper side of the rear spar, nestled up under the flaperon gap seal? There has to be a good bit of space there in front of the flaperons. It would make for a very simple and inspectable/replaceable routing straight into the cabin. I have aluminum conduit from the upper strut attach out to the tips, but I may now use this new idea at least for some of the wires, especially If I have antennas in the tips because the antenna cable is so fat, it seems to want as simple a routing as possible.
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 11:30:43 -0500
From: klehman@albedo.net
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Trim Wiring

The multi conductor cable from MAC will likely last forever. It is 26 or
24 awg. The elevator does not move all that many full cycles for finely
stranded wire, especially if the cable does not have to flex at a tight
bend. My cable goes out the very aft end of the Rebel fuselage beside
the tail post and under the stab fairing then into the side of the
elevator. I put a connector inside the fuselage for removing the
elevator. Rubber grommets worked fine with an adel clamp at the fus exit
and access is no problem if the wire ever needs to be replaced. I will
be very surprised if the cable ever fails with such gentle bending. A
failed cable should be no big deal as the trim should stay where it is.
An unlikely short or a failed switch could drive it to an end position
but that is why we should mechanically limit the possible travel. I
merely used the outer hole in the trim tab horn.

All my fiberglass tips are fastened with nutplates or clipnuts. At 3.5
years and 320 hours I don't think I've actually removed any of them yet
but when I do it will not mess up the paint.

For wires in the fuselage I would recommend running them through
grommets in the bulkheads down the exposed sides of the fuselage where
possible. If buried in the floor or anywhere, smooth plastic conduit is
worth considering so that wires can be replaced or additional wires can
be installed. Sooner or later you will want another wire for some new
toy. Don't rule out running wires up the forward side of the door post,
over the top carry through, down through the roof, and then rearward
above the door frame. The windshield that goes aft over top of the
forward skylights on a Rebel leaves ample room to do this.

Ken

mikeh@dcsol.com wrote:
Hi all,
I've been starting to think about this too. Has anyone had trouble
with wire breakage due to the continuous movement of the elevator? I've
been thinking of using a couple of plug in connectors, one on the elevator
and the other probably on the horizontal bulkhead behind the fairing. This
would allow the easy removal of the elevator as well as easy replacement of
that section of cable which may fail after many cyclings of the elevator. I
may even keep a replacement part in the tool kit.
Easy removal of the elevator requires easy removal of the elevator
tip........... I'm still thinking on this one.
I had been thinking of running trim the cable up the fuse through
rubber grommets in holes in the bulkheads beneath the floor.
Any comments? Cheers Mike

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Ken

[rebel-builders] Trim Wiring (and wing wiring)

Post by Ken » Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:54 pm

ILS antennas in the wingtips Jesse?
RG400 coax has a stranded center core, high temp non extruding
insulation, and double shielding and is slightly under 1/4" diameter I
believe. Check their archives but I think the aeroelectric list says it
is OK to run all these wires in the same conduit if you have room. With
remote strobe power supplies or wig wagging lights I'd personally run
both power and ground wires instead of grounding to the airframe if all
the wires are in the same conduit. But I'd also keep any transmitting
antennas near the cabin to reduce losses. Some items do specify max.
coax lengths; think it was 11 ft. on my transponder for example.

There have been cautions about running loose wires ahead of the forward
spar in the archives. Concerns about rubbing and wear.

Ken

Bob Palmer wrote:
How about in front of the front spar inside the wing.


Jesse Jenks wrote:
All this talk of wiring is timely for me as I am beginning to
seriously consider my electrical system. While looking at my wings
sitting there against the wall in my living room, I had one of
those brain flash ideas. Maybe it's no good, but...for people who
haven't built in any conduit in the wings for nav/strobes, wingtip
landing lights, and dipole antennas mounted in the tips; why not
run wire down the aft upper side of the rear spar, nestled up under
the flaperon gap seal? There has to be a good bit of space there in
front of the flaperons. It would make for a very simple and
inspectable/replaceable routing straight into the cabin. I have
aluminum conduit from the upper strut attach out to the tips, but I
may now use this new idea at least for some of the wires,
especially If I have antennas in the tips because the antenna cable
is so fat, it seems to want as simple a routing as possible.


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Jesse Jenks

[rebel-builders] Trim Wiring (and wing wiring)

Post by Jesse Jenks » Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:54 pm

Yes Ken, I am planning to try to find a used Garmin 430 and couple that to the HSI feature on a Dynon. That way I can shoot ILS/VOR or GPS approaches. It seems like it would be difficult to install a traditional cat wisker antenna on the tail at this point so I'm looking at the interior mount ones. I guess that's what all the go-fast guys use.
Thanks for the wire tips. I'm about to start my serious study of the Aeroelectric Connection book, and I've been following the email list for a few years now. I think I am more intimidated by the electrical part of this project than anything else. It's alwaws been a mystery to me. It is interesting how Bob N. always says not to worry about running all kinds of wires together. He says the big airplane makers don't worry about it so we shouldn't.
Jesse
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 22:34:28 -0500
From: klehman@albedo.net
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Trim Wiring (and wing wiring)

ILS antennas in the wingtips Jesse?
RG400 coax has a stranded center core, high temp non extruding
insulation, and double shielding and is slightly under 1/4" diameter I
believe. Check their archives but I think the aeroelectric list says it
is OK to run all these wires in the same conduit if you have room. With
remote strobe power supplies or wig wagging lights I'd personally run
both power and ground wires instead of grounding to the airframe if all
the wires are in the same conduit. But I'd also keep any transmitting
antennas near the cabin to reduce losses. Some items do specify max.
coax lengths; think it was 11 ft. on my transponder for example.

There have been cautions about running loose wires ahead of the forward
spar in the archives. Concerns about rubbing and wear.

Ken

Bob Palmer wrote:
How about in front of the front spar inside the wing.


Jesse Jenks wrote:
All this talk of wiring is timely for me as I am beginning to
seriously consider my electrical system. While looking at my wings
sitting there against the wall in my living room, I had one of
those brain flash ideas. Maybe it's no good, but...for people who
haven't built in any conduit in the wings for nav/strobes, wingtip
landing lights, and dipole antennas mounted in the tips; why not
run wire down the aft upper side of the rear spar, nestled up under
the flaperon gap seal? There has to be a good bit of space there in
front of the flaperons. It would make for a very simple and
inspectable/replaceable routing straight into the cabin. I have
aluminum conduit from the upper strut attach out to the tips, but I
may now use this new idea at least for some of the wires,
especially If I have antennas in the tips because the antenna cable
is so fat, it seems to want as simple a routing as possible.


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