[rebel-builders] net weight difference with floats

[Walter Klatt]

It depends on whether you have the spring gear or the lighter bungee gear,
and of course if you vary from the minimum MAM specified pump, lines, and
struts. I believe it is around 225 pounds extra for the spring gear, and 250
extra for the bungee gear.

I think most if not all Elites use the spring gear, so you could probably
count on at least 225 pounds, 250 if you use heavier lines and other
options.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Bob
Palmer
Sent: January 1, 2010 12:13 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] net weight difference with floats

Does anyone out there have the net weight difference between an Elite on
wheels and on 1800 MAM amphibs?

Thanks,
Bob
773E




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------






-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[Bob Palmer]

Thanks Walter.

That is why I was referring to the net wt. difference i.e. the empty wt.
on floats minus the empty wt. on wheels. That accounts for all of the
other differences in the airframe so that I can compare the difference
between apples and Golden Delicious. I am trying to decide what floats I
can get away with using with regard to useful load.

Bob.
773E


Klatt wrote:

It depends on whether you have the spring gear or the lighter bungee gear,
and of course if you vary from the minimum MAM specified pump, lines, and
struts. I believe it is around 225 pounds extra for the spring gear, and 250
extra for the bungee gear.

I think most if not all Elites use the spring gear, so you could probably
count on at least 225 pounds, 250 if you use heavier lines and other
options.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Bob
Palmer
Sent: January 1, 2010 12:13 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] net weight difference with floats

Does anyone out there have the net weight difference between an Elite on
wheels and on 1800 MAM amphibs?

Thanks,
Bob
773E




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------






-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------



------------------------------------------------------------------------


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.725 / Virus Database: 270.14.124/2596 - Release Date: 01/01/10 01:20:00

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[Garry Wright]

282# for a rebel on amphib 1800's switched from die-spring gear.
Mine was always for floats so I can't give a number for what the hard
points and such weigh. Not much compared with the difference between
wheels and amphibs.

Garry
C-FOKM

Bob Palmer wrote:

Thanks Walter.

That is why I was referring to the net wt. difference i.e. the empty wt.
on floats minus the empty wt. on wheels. That accounts for all of the
other differences in the airframe so that I can compare the difference
between apples and Golden Delicious. I am trying to decide what floats I
can get away with using with regard to useful load.

Bob.
773E


Klatt wrote:

It depends on whether you have the spring gear or the lighter bungee gear,
and of course if you vary from the minimum MAM specified pump, lines, and
struts. I believe it is around 225 pounds extra for the spring gear, and 250
extra for the bungee gear.

I think most if not all Elites use the spring gear, so you could probably
count on at least 225 pounds, 250 if you use heavier lines and other
options.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Bob
Palmer
Sent: January 1, 2010 12:13 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] net weight difference with floats

Does anyone out there have the net weight difference between an Elite on
wheels and on 1800 MAM amphibs?

Thanks,
Bob
773E




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------






-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------



------------------------------------------------------------------------


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.725 / Virus Database: 270.14.124/2596 - Release Date: 01/01/10 01:20:00

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[Eric Fogelin]

Empty weight of my Elite on MAM 1800 amphib floats epoxy primed and painted
with aluminum lacquer is 1320lbs.

Empty weight of Elite with spring gear and 8.00x6 tires is 1092lbs.

My empty weight difference is 228lbs.

Notes:
The airplane is unpainted on the exterior and completely zinc-chromated on
all interior surfaces(wings, tail and fuselage). Cabin is painted with
enamel. No headliners or sound proofing.

The Elite on spring gear still has the extra weight of the float hydraulic
pump, valve, pressure gauge and cabin hydraulic lines, so weighs a bit more
than if all float hardware was not installed.

Engine is a Superior O-360 180hp with constant speed MT-prop.

Eric Fogelin
N645E

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Bob
Palmer
Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 12:13 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] net weight difference with floats

Does anyone out there have the net weight difference between an Elite on
wheels and on 1800 MAM amphibs?

Thanks,
Bob
773E




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------






-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[Bob Palmer]

Eric,

Thank you very much! That is just what I needed. You can help me out
again by telling me how you like your MT prop. I have given
consideration to one as it is I think about a 25 pound weight saving
over Hartzel. Is that about correct?

Bob.
773E


Fogelin wrote:

Empty weight of my Elite on MAM 1800 amphib floats epoxy primed and painted
with aluminum lacquer is 1320lbs.

Empty weight of Elite with spring gear and 8.00x6 tires is 1092lbs.

My empty weight difference is 228lbs.

Notes:
The airplane is unpainted on the exterior and completely zinc-chromated on
all interior surfaces(wings, tail and fuselage). Cabin is painted with
enamel. No headliners or sound proofing.

The Elite on spring gear still has the extra weight of the float hydraulic
pump, valve, pressure gauge and cabin hydraulic lines, so weighs a bit more
than if all float hardware was not installed.

Engine is a Superior O-360 180hp with constant speed MT-prop.

Eric Fogelin
N645E

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Bob
Palmer
Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 12:13 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] net weight difference with floats

Does anyone out there have the net weight difference between an Elite on
wheels and on 1800 MAM amphibs?

Thanks,
Bob
773E




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------






-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------



------------------------------------------------------------------------


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.725 / Virus Database: 270.14.124/2596 - Release Date: 01/01/10 01:20:00

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[Bob Andrews]

Bob,

Don't forget when you go to the amphibs, you can increase the GW - simply
because the airplane cannot fly as fast as it can with the tail dragger
gear. Adding only the float weight to the land only gross weight is quite
doable, realizing the same useful load as an amphib as with the land only
gear.

Cheers, Bob 612e

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Bob
Palmer
Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 12:46 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] net weight difference with floats

Thanks Walter.

That is why I was referring to the net wt. difference i.e. the empty wt.
on floats minus the empty wt. on wheels. That accounts for all of the
other differences in the airframe so that I can compare the difference
between apples and Golden Delicious. I am trying to decide what floats I
can get away with using with regard to useful load.

Bob.
773E


Klatt wrote:

It depends on whether you have the spring gear or the lighter bungee gear,
and of course if you vary from the minimum MAM specified pump, lines, and
struts. I believe it is around 225 pounds extra for the spring gear, and

250

extra for the bungee gear.

I think most if not all Elites use the spring gear, so you could probably
count on at least 225 pounds, 250 if you use heavier lines and other
options.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Bob
Palmer
Sent: January 1, 2010 12:13 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] net weight difference with floats

Does anyone out there have the net weight difference between an Elite on
wheels and on 1800 MAM amphibs?

Thanks,
Bob
773E




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------






-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------



------------------------------------------------------------------------


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.725 / Virus Database: 270.14.124/2596 - Release Date:

01/01/10 01:20:00




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------






-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[Bob Palmer]

Bob A,
Unfortunately, the weight adjustment for floats is only 5% or 90 lbs.
This is very good if you are going with MAM 1800s as it seems that in
this case your useful load is only reduced by about 138 lbs. Since I
can't get MAM floats at the moment I was considering other options which
turn out to be way heavier.

Bob
773E



ndrews wrote:

Bob,

Don't forget when you go to the amphibs, you can increase the GW - simply
because the airplane cannot fly as fast as it can with the tail dragger
gear. Adding only the float weight to the land only gross weight is quite
doable, realizing the same useful load as an amphib as with the land only
gear.

Cheers, Bob 612e

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Bob
Palmer
Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 12:46 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] net weight difference with floats

Thanks Walter.

That is why I was referring to the net wt. difference i.e. the empty wt.
on floats minus the empty wt. on wheels. That accounts for all of the
other differences in the airframe so that I can compare the difference
between apples and Golden Delicious. I am trying to decide what floats I
can get away with using with regard to useful load.

Bob.
773E


Klatt wrote:

It depends on whether you have the spring gear or the lighter bungee gear,
and of course if you vary from the minimum MAM specified pump, lines, and
struts. I believe it is around 225 pounds extra for the spring gear, and

250

extra for the bungee gear.

I think most if not all Elites use the spring gear, so you could probably
count on at least 225 pounds, 250 if you use heavier lines and other
options.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Bob
Palmer
Sent: January 1, 2010 12:13 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] net weight difference with floats

Does anyone out there have the net weight difference between an Elite on
wheels and on 1800 MAM amphibs?

Thanks,
Bob
773E




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------






-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------



------------------------------------------------------------------------


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.725 / Virus Database: 270.14.124/2596 - Release Date:

01/01/10 01:20:00





-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------






-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------



------------------------------------------------------------------------


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.725 / Virus Database: 270.14.124/2596 - Release Date: 01/01/10 01:20:00

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[snowyrvr@mtaonline.net]

So...what's the total weight difference (generally speaking) between an
0320 with a fixed prop and the 0360 w/ CS MT? And, just as important,
anyone know what they get for that prop set-up?

Walter, if memory serves, you didn't go the CS route; any thoughts on this?
You are flying exactly what I will be so it's very pertinent. Craig

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Bob Palmer rtpalmer@shaw.ca
Date: Fri, 01 Jan 2010 15:30:53 -0800
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] net weight difference with floats


Eric,

Thank you very much! That is just what I needed. You can help me out
again by telling me how you like your MT prop. I have given
consideration to one as it is I think about a 25 pound weight saving
over Hartzel. Is that about correct?

Bob.
773E


Fogelin wrote:

Empty weight of my Elite on MAM 1800 amphib floats epoxy primed and

painted

with aluminum lacquer is 1320lbs.

Empty weight of Elite with spring gear and 8.00x6 tires is 1092lbs.

My empty weight difference is 228lbs.

Notes:
The airplane is unpainted on the exterior and completely zinc-chromated on
all interior surfaces(wings, tail and fuselage). Cabin is painted with
enamel. No headliners or sound proofing.

The Elite on spring gear still has the extra weight of the float hydraulic
pump, valve, pressure gauge and cabin hydraulic lines, so weighs a bit

more

than if all float hardware was not installed.

Engine is a Superior O-360 180hp with constant speed MT-prop.

Eric Fogelin
N645E

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Bob
Palmer
Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 12:13 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] net weight difference with floats

Does anyone out there have the net weight difference between an Elite on
wheels and on 1800 MAM amphibs?

Thanks,
Bob
773E




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------






-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------



------------------------------------------------------------------------


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.725 / Virus Database: 270.14.124/2596 - Release Date:

01/01/10 01:20:00




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------





--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web LIVE

[Bob Palmer]

Correction: that should have read " your useful load is only reduced by
about 138 lbs. PLUS the hydraulics". The hydraulics might weigh 40 lbs??

Bob.

Bob Palmer wrote:

Bob A,
Unfortunately, the weight adjustment for floats is only 5% or 90 lbs.
This is very good if you are going with MAM 1800s as it seems that in
this case your useful load is only reduced by about 138 lbs. Since I
can't get MAM floats at the moment I was considering other options which
turn out to be way heavier.

Bob
773E



ndrews wrote:

Bob,

Don't forget when you go to the amphibs, you can increase the GW - simply
because the airplane cannot fly as fast as it can with the tail dragger
gear. Adding only the float weight to the land only gross weight is quite
doable, realizing the same useful load as an amphib as with the land only
gear.

Cheers, Bob 612e

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Bob
Palmer
Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 12:46 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] net weight difference with floats

Thanks Walter.

That is why I was referring to the net wt. difference i.e. the empty wt.
on floats minus the empty wt. on wheels. That accounts for all of the
other differences in the airframe so that I can compare the difference
between apples and Golden Delicious. I am trying to decide what floats I
can get away with using with regard to useful load.

Bob.
773E


Klatt wrote:

It depends on whether you have the spring gear or the lighter bungee gear,
and of course if you vary from the minimum MAM specified pump, lines, and
struts. I believe it is around 225 pounds extra for the spring gear, and

250

extra for the bungee gear.

I think most if not all Elites use the spring gear, so you could probably
count on at least 225 pounds, 250 if you use heavier lines and other
options.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Bob
Palmer
Sent: January 1, 2010 12:13 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] net weight difference with floats

Does anyone out there have the net weight difference between an Elite on
wheels and on 1800 MAM amphibs?

Thanks,
Bob
773E




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------






-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------



------------------------------------------------------------------------


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.725 / Virus Database: 270.14.124/2596 - Release Date:

01/01/10 01:20:00




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------






-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------



------------------------------------------------------------------------


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.725 / Virus Database: 270.14.124/2596 - Release Date: 01/01/10 01:20:00

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------



------------------------------------------------------------------------


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.725 / Virus Database: 270.14.124/2596 - Release Date: 01/01/10 01:20:00

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[Bob Palmer]

The dry wt. for the Lycoming O-320 A is listed at 268 lbs. and the O-360
is 290 lbs. A fixed pitch prop is about 35 lbs and a constant speed
Hartzell is about 60 lbs. but don't quote on those numbers.

Bob.
773E
p.s. I think that a MT prop is close to the weight of a fixed pitch prop
but you have to add in the oil and governor and heavier spinner and
control cable.

snowyrvr@mtaonline.net wrote:

So...what's the total weight difference (generally speaking) between an
0320 with a fixed prop and the 0360 w/ CS MT? And, just as important,
anyone know what they get for that prop set-up?

Walter, if memory serves, you didn't go the CS route; any thoughts on this?
You are flying exactly what I will be so it's very pertinent. Craig

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Bob Palmer rtpalmer@shaw.ca
Date: Fri, 01 Jan 2010 15:30:53 -0800
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] net weight difference with floats


Eric,

Thank you very much! That is just what I needed. You can help me out
again by telling me how you like your MT prop. I have given
consideration to one as it is I think about a 25 pound weight saving
over Hartzel. Is that about correct?

Bob.
773E


Fogelin wrote:

Empty weight of my Elite on MAM 1800 amphib floats epoxy primed and

painted

with aluminum lacquer is 1320lbs.

Empty weight of Elite with spring gear and 8.00x6 tires is 1092lbs.

My empty weight difference is 228lbs.

Notes:
The airplane is unpainted on the exterior and completely zinc-chromated on
all interior surfaces(wings, tail and fuselage). Cabin is painted with
enamel. No headliners or sound proofing.

The Elite on spring gear still has the extra weight of the float hydraulic
pump, valve, pressure gauge and cabin hydraulic lines, so weighs a bit

more

than if all float hardware was not installed.

Engine is a Superior O-360 180hp with constant speed MT-prop.

Eric Fogelin
N645E

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Bob
Palmer
Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 12:13 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] net weight difference with floats

Does anyone out there have the net weight difference between an Elite on
wheels and on 1800 MAM amphibs?

Thanks,
Bob
773E




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------






-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------



------------------------------------------------------------------------


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.725 / Virus Database: 270.14.124/2596 - Release Date:

01/01/10 01:20:00





-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------





--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web LIVE

[Walter Klatt]

There's no question that a CS prop will get more power out of a 320 or 360.
But they weigh more and cost a lot more.

I have mentioned many times in the past here on this list how much better my
74X54 prop performed than a 56 or slower static rpm pitched prop. The extra
rpm on take-off and climbs makes a big difference.

I tried both the 76X54 and the 76X56 (current) Sensenich props with my 360,
and the 54 had 200 fpm better climb and turned 100 rpm higher on climb out.

So I think that shows pretty clearly that a CS allowing higher rpm for take
off and climb would really help.

Here is how I looked at it though. The extra weight of the 360 is 10 more
pounds at most. In my particular case, when I switched engines, the weights
actually came out the same, because of some lighter parts on the new 360
engine and my new cowl. A CS prop usually weighs 20 or 30 pounds more (MT
might be an exception). So weight wise you are better off with a 360 than a
320 with a CS. And the cost of the 360 is nearly the same (200 dollars at
Aerosport Power), whereas the cost of a CS is huge bucks.

And with the 360 you can get by with a finer pitched prop, to get the most
climb, but you will still have faster cruise available than you can use on
the Rebel. Also, you don't lose any appreciable fuel efficiency in cruise
with the finer pitched prop, as I have mentioned before with my fuel flow
tests.

So, you are much better off with performance, weight and cost using a fixed
pitch 360 than a CS 320.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
snowyrvr@mtaonline.net
Sent: January 1, 2010 4:24 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] net weight difference with floats

So...what's the total weight difference (generally speaking) between an
0320 with a fixed prop and the 0360 w/ CS MT? And, just as important,
anyone know what they get for that prop set-up?

Walter, if memory serves, you didn't go the CS route; any thoughts on this?
You are flying exactly what I will be so it's very pertinent. Craig

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Bob Palmer rtpalmer@shaw.ca
Date: Fri, 01 Jan 2010 15:30:53 -0800
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] net weight difference with floats


Eric,

Thank you very much! That is just what I needed. You can help me out
again by telling me how you like your MT prop. I have given
consideration to one as it is I think about a 25 pound weight saving
over Hartzel. Is that about correct?

Bob.
773E


Fogelin wrote:

Empty weight of my Elite on MAM 1800 amphib floats epoxy primed and

painted

with aluminum lacquer is 1320lbs.

Empty weight of Elite with spring gear and 8.00x6 tires is 1092lbs.

My empty weight difference is 228lbs.

Notes:
The airplane is unpainted on the exterior and completely zinc-chromated on
all interior surfaces(wings, tail and fuselage). Cabin is painted with
enamel. No headliners or sound proofing.

The Elite on spring gear still has the extra weight of the float hydraulic
pump, valve, pressure gauge and cabin hydraulic lines, so weighs a bit

more

than if all float hardware was not installed.

Engine is a Superior O-360 180hp with constant speed MT-prop.

Eric Fogelin
N645E

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Bob
Palmer
Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 12:13 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] net weight difference with floats

Does anyone out there have the net weight difference between an Elite on
wheels and on 1800 MAM amphibs?

Thanks,
Bob
773E




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------






-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------



------------------------------------------------------------------------


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.725 / Virus Database: 270.14.124/2596 - Release Date:

01/01/10 01:20:00




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------





--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web LIVE - Free email based on MicrosoftR Exchange technology -
http://link.mail2web.com/LIVE





-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------






-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[Walter Klatt]

Engine weights really vary depending on the suffix models. My engine
(Superior case) is listed at 275 - 290 pounds.
http://www.superiorairparts.com/PDF/Fll ... XP360_Plus_
TecSht.pdf

But if you look at the Mattituck site in their FAQs, you do get a better
apples to apples comparison between the 320 and 360. They list their hollow
crank (CS model) 360 at 281 pounds and the 320 hollow crank at 274. That is
less than 10 pounds. I cut and pasted that section below. Also, I have the
ECI EXP cylinders which weigh about 5 pounds less.

Bob, your angle valve engine is listed there as well for comparison.

Walter

From the Mattituck site:
What are the approximate weights and dimensions of the TMX experimental
engines?

Approximate TMX Engine Series Weights And Dimensions (H x W x L):

TMX O-360 Fixed Pitch (Solid Shaft 180HP):
25"x 33"x 29" 286 Lbs.

TMX IO-360 Fixed Pitch (Solid Shaft 180HP):
24"x 33"x 29" 289 Lbs.( plus 2 LBS for Forward Facing Sump)

TMX O-360 Constant Speed (180 HP) :
25"x 33"x 29" 281 Lbs.

TMX IO-360 Constant Speed (180 HP) :
24"x 34"x 29" 284 Lbs. (plus 2 LBS for Forward Facing Sump)

TMX IO-360 Constant Speed (200HP Counterweighted) :
19"x 34"x 29" 320 Lbs.

TMX IO-360 Constant Speed (200HP Non-Counterweighted) :
19"x 34"x 29" 309 Lbs.

TMX IO-390 Constant Speed (210HP Counterweighted) :
19"x 34"x 30" 308 Lbs.

TMX O-320 Constant Speed (150/160 HP) :
22"x 32.2"x 29" 274 Lbs.

TMX IO-320 Constant Speed (150/160 HP) :
24"x 32.2"x 29" 277 Lbs. (plus 2LBS for Forward Facing Sump)

TMX O-320 Fixed Pitch (150/160 HP) :
22"x 32.2"x 29" 273 Lbs.

TMX IO-320 Fixed Pitch (150/160 HP) :
24"x 32.2"x 29" 276 Lbs. (plus 2LBS for Forward Facing Sump)

TMX O-200 Fixed Pitch (100 HP)
23"x 31"x 28" 215 Lbs.

TMX IO-240 Fixed Pitch (125 HP)
23"x 31"x 29" 240 Lbs.

TMX O-540 constant speed or fixed pitch (250/260 HP)
24.5"x33"x38.5" 397 Lbs.

TMX IO-540 constant speed or fixed pitch (250/260 HP)
24"x33"x38.5" 410 Lbs.



-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Bob
Palmer
Sent: January 1, 2010 4:57 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] net weight difference with floats

The dry wt. for the Lycoming O-320 A is listed at 268 lbs. and the O-360
is 290 lbs. A fixed pitch prop is about 35 lbs and a constant speed
Hartzell is about 60 lbs. but don't quote on those numbers.

Bob.
773E
p.s. I think that a MT prop is close to the weight of a fixed pitch prop
but you have to add in the oil and governor and heavier spinner and
control cable.

snowyrvr@mtaonline.net wrote:

So...what's the total weight difference (generally speaking) between an
0320 with a fixed prop and the 0360 w/ CS MT? And, just as important,
anyone know what they get for that prop set-up?

Walter, if memory serves, you didn't go the CS route; any thoughts on

this?

You are flying exactly what I will be so it's very pertinent. Craig

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Bob Palmer rtpalmer@shaw.ca
Date: Fri, 01 Jan 2010 15:30:53 -0800
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] net weight difference with floats


Eric,

Thank you very much! That is just what I needed. You can help me out
again by telling me how you like your MT prop. I have given
consideration to one as it is I think about a 25 pound weight saving
over Hartzel. Is that about correct?

Bob.
773E


Fogelin wrote:

Empty weight of my Elite on MAM 1800 amphib floats epoxy primed and

painted

with aluminum lacquer is 1320lbs.

Empty weight of Elite with spring gear and 8.00x6 tires is 1092lbs.

My empty weight difference is 228lbs.

Notes:
The airplane is unpainted on the exterior and completely zinc-chromated

on

all interior surfaces(wings, tail and fuselage). Cabin is painted with
enamel. No headliners or sound proofing.

The Elite on spring gear still has the extra weight of the float

hydraulic

pump, valve, pressure gauge and cabin hydraulic lines, so weighs a bit

more

than if all float hardware was not installed.

Engine is a Superior O-360 180hp with constant speed MT-prop.

Eric Fogelin
N645E

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Bob
Palmer
Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 12:13 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] net weight difference with floats

Does anyone out there have the net weight difference between an Elite on
wheels and on 1800 MAM amphibs?

Thanks,
Bob
773E




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------






-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------



------------------------------------------------------------------------


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.725 / Virus Database: 270.14.124/2596 - Release Date:

01/01/10 01:20:00





-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------





--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web LIVE - Free email based on MicrosoftR Exchange technology -
http://link.mail2web.com/LIVE





-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------



------------------------------------------------------------------------


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.725 / Virus Database: 270.14.124/2596 - Release Date:

01/01/10 01:20:00




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------






-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[Drew Dalgleish]

IMO the best reason to go with a CS prop on floats is to get beta.

At 05:12 PM 01/01/2010 -0800, you wrote:

There's no question that a CS prop will get more power out of a 320 or 360.
But they weigh more and cost a lot more.

I have mentioned many times in the past here on this list how much better my
74X54 prop performed than a 56 or slower static rpm pitched prop. The extra
rpm on take-off and climbs makes a big difference.

I tried both the 76X54 and the 76X56 (current) Sensenich props with my 360,
and the 54 had 200 fpm better climb and turned 100 rpm higher on climb out.

So I think that shows pretty clearly that a CS allowing higher rpm for take
off and climb would really help.

Here is how I looked at it though. The extra weight of the 360 is 10 more
pounds at most. In my particular case, when I switched engines, the weights
actually came out the same, because of some lighter parts on the new 360
engine and my new cowl. A CS prop usually weighs 20 or 30 pounds more (MT
might be an exception). So weight wise you are better off with a 360 than a
320 with a CS. And the cost of the 360 is nearly the same (200 dollars at
Aerosport Power), whereas the cost of a CS is huge bucks.

And with the 360 you can get by with a finer pitched prop, to get the most
climb, but you will still have faster cruise available than you can use on
the Rebel. Also, you don't lose any appreciable fuel efficiency in cruise
with the finer pitched prop, as I have mentioned before with my fuel flow
tests.

So, you are much better off with performance, weight and cost using a fixed
pitch 360 than a CS 320.

Walter

Drew



-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[Wayne G. O'Shea]

That would be my only reason !! lol

----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew Dalgleish" <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 9:46 PM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] net weight difference with floats

IMO the best reason to go with a CS prop on floats is to get beta.

At 05:12 PM 01/01/2010 -0800, you wrote:

There's no question that a CS prop will get more power out of a 320 or
360.
But they weigh more and cost a lot more.

I have mentioned many times in the past here on this list how much better
my
74X54 prop performed than a 56 or slower static rpm pitched prop. The
extra
rpm on take-off and climbs makes a big difference.

I tried both the 76X54 and the 76X56 (current) Sensenich props with my
360,
and the 54 had 200 fpm better climb and turned 100 rpm higher on climb
out.

So I think that shows pretty clearly that a CS allowing higher rpm for
take
off and climb would really help.

Here is how I looked at it though. The extra weight of the 360 is 10 more
pounds at most. In my particular case, when I switched engines, the
weights
actually came out the same, because of some lighter parts on the new 360
engine and my new cowl. A CS prop usually weighs 20 or 30 pounds more (MT
might be an exception). So weight wise you are better off with a 360 than
a
320 with a CS. And the cost of the 360 is nearly the same (200 dollars at
Aerosport Power), whereas the cost of a CS is huge bucks.

And with the 360 you can get by with a finer pitched prop, to get the most
climb, but you will still have faster cruise available than you can use on
the Rebel. Also, you don't lose any appreciable fuel efficiency in cruise
with the finer pitched prop, as I have mentioned before with my fuel flow
tests.

So, you are much better off with performance, weight and cost using a
fixed
pitch 360 than a CS 320.

Walter

Drew



-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[Eric Fogelin]

I like the MT-prop, but can't recommend it. It is overkill on the Elite.

I like flying with a constant speed prop; personal choice. A metal constant
speed prop would make the plane way too nose heavy. The MT constant speed
prop is probably about the same weight or lighter than a metal fixed pitch
prop even with the governor and assorted hardware.

Folks flying Huskies like the MT-prop and it does bump up performance.

Costs a bunch, has a huge (light) Kevlar spinner that requires major cowl
work on the speed cowl to make look right. Plus extra engine installation
work. So, probably not what most people want or need.

Eric
N645E


-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Bob
Palmer
Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 3:31 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] net weight difference with floats

Eric,

Thank you very much! That is just what I needed. You can help me out
again by telling me how you like your MT prop. I have given
consideration to one as it is I think about a 25 pound weight saving
over Hartzel. Is that about correct?

Bob.
773E


Fogelin wrote:

Empty weight of my Elite on MAM 1800 amphib floats epoxy primed and

painted

with aluminum lacquer is 1320lbs.

Empty weight of Elite with spring gear and 8.00x6 tires is 1092lbs.

My empty weight difference is 228lbs.

Notes:
The airplane is unpainted on the exterior and completely zinc-chromated on
all interior surfaces(wings, tail and fuselage). Cabin is painted with
enamel. No headliners or sound proofing.

The Elite on spring gear still has the extra weight of the float hydraulic
pump, valve, pressure gauge and cabin hydraulic lines, so weighs a bit

more

than if all float hardware was not installed.

Engine is a Superior O-360 180hp with constant speed MT-prop.

Eric Fogelin
N645E

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Bob
Palmer
Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 12:13 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] net weight difference with floats

Does anyone out there have the net weight difference between an Elite on
wheels and on 1800 MAM amphibs?

Thanks,
Bob
773E




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------






-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------



------------------------------------------------------------------------


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.725 / Virus Database: 270.14.124/2596 - Release Date:

01/01/10 01:20:00




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------






-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------