[rebel-builders] Fuel slector valves

Ted Waltman · Post by **Ted Waltman** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:50 pm

Personally, I leave the fuel selector valves BOTH ON all the time (don't ask
how I got into this checklist habit).

The ONLY time I turn off the valves--and then I ALWAYS turn BOTH off, is if
I'm parked on a slope for some reason (fly-in, back-country, maintenance,
etc). Turning both valves ON is part of my pre-start checklist.

I thought about putting in a micro-switch on each valve with an indicator
light on the panel to tell me if one or the other or both were off, but then
I figured the always-use-it checklist was the simpler approach.

FWIW,

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Charlie Eubanks
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 5:56 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] Fuel slector valves

Hello All

First I want to wish all you Murphy builders a Merry Christmas and a
healthily and prosperous New Year to you and yours.

I finally have all the controls installed and rigged and decide to install
the fuel lines next. I am some what vertically challenged (5-7") so when I
adjust the seat so I can reach the rudder pedals, instrument panel and
maintain a full aft stick, I find I can not safely reach the fuel "On - Off"

valves (particularly the left tank). My thought is to omit the supplied
valves and install a fuel selector valve on the cabin floor just forward of
the elevator/Flapperon control tube. Any thoughts or advice would be much
appreciated (particularly from you shorter people) out there.

Charlie E. 802R

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Wayne G. O'Shea · Post by **Wayne G. O'Shea** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:50 pm

A valid concern Charlie... the first thing a GOOD MD-RA inspector here in
Canada does is make you strap in with shoulder harness done up.... with seat
in YOUR flying postion and tell you to rotate the fuel valve handles. Can't
reach them.. final inspect is failed.

My two are in the floor between the seats with a "pan" made to surround them
(handles are basically flush with the original floor)... Bob White's Elite,
in the hangar, has a single Andair left/right/both/off just in front of the
control column.

Just don't forget your belly drains at the lowest point when aircraft is
three point...if you're careful routing they will also work when on floats.

Wayne

PS...I'm like Ted... mine never get shut off unless I'm parked on a slope..
or I wanna do a quick fueling of one wing at the float base so I'm trying to
run it low while keeping the other one full. I NEVER shut off both of
them... I've survived my one pucker factor event and never plan to chance
one again....

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ted Waltman" <ted@vafm.org>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 8:03 PM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Fuel slector valves

Personally, I leave the fuel selector valves BOTH ON all the time (don't
ask
how I got into this checklist habit).

The ONLY time I turn off the valves--and then I ALWAYS turn BOTH off, is
if
I'm parked on a slope for some reason (fly-in, back-country, maintenance,
etc). Turning both valves ON is part of my pre-start checklist.

I thought about putting in a micro-switch on each valve with an indicator
light on the panel to tell me if one or the other or both were off, but
then
I figured the always-use-it checklist was the simpler approach.

FWIW,

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Charlie Eubanks
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 5:56 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] Fuel slector valves

Hello All

First I want to wish all you Murphy builders a Merry Christmas and a
healthily and prosperous New Year to you and yours.

I finally have all the controls installed and rigged and decide to install
the fuel lines next. I am some what vertically challenged (5-7") so when I
adjust the seat so I can reach the rudder pedals, instrument panel and
maintain a full aft stick, I find I can not safely reach the fuel "On -
Off"

valves (particularly the left tank). My thought is to omit the supplied
valves and install a fuel selector valve on the cabin floor just forward
of
the elevator/Flapperon control tube. Any thoughts or advice would be much
appreciated (particularly from you shorter people) out there.

Charlie E. 802R

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Ken · Post by **Ken** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:50 pm

With quarter turn ball valves from the hardware store, you also have the
option of a remote lever farther forward with a push rod to a handle on
the valve. You'd probably have to fashion a valve handle that is rotated
45 degrees on the shaft from the original. I have trouble imagining that
you can't really reach the valves though. You don't have the cheap leaky
valves with the tiny plastic knob I hope. One finger will rotate the 4"
handles on my $5. brass body ball valves with teflon seals from the
hardware store...
Ken

Charlie Eubanks wrote:

Hello All

First I want to wish all you Murphy builders a Merry Christmas and a
healthily and prosperous New Year to you and yours.

I finally have all the controls installed and rigged and decide to install
the fuel lines next. I am some what vertically challenged (5-7") so when I
adjust the seat so I can reach the rudder pedals, instrument panel and
maintain a full aft stick, I find I can not safely reach the fuel "On - Off"
valves (particularly the left tank). My thought is to omit the supplied
valves and install a fuel selector valve on the cabin floor just forward of
the elevator/Flapperon control tube. Any thoughts or advice would be much
appreciated (particularly from you shorter people) out there.

Charlie E. 802R

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Charlie Eubanks · Post by **Charlie Eubanks** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:54 pm

Wayne, Ted, Ken & Keith

Thanks for all the help and suggestions on re-locating the shut off valves.
I agree the fuel vales should be on the pre-flight check list and left in
the "ON" position most of the time. I guess I have the latest shut off
valves they are marked "JT"

N.Smith · Post by **N.Smith** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:54 pm

Hi Charlie

I

Dennis Finley · Post by **Dennis Finley** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:54 pm

hi Charlie
just a few notes that i have experienced,be care full ware you mount
on the floor,my friend has a rebel with his selector on the floor and
on more than one occasion passengers have bumped it in the off
position with out noing it,this can cause quite a start.if you mount
up by the wing if you have a fuel leek it is shut off at the source
,on the floor you have quite a distance before you get to the
selector.this be comes more of a problem if you use any rubber hose,i
chose to use all alum line with only 2 connection as to lesson any
chance of a leek

Dennis Finley
Elite Amphib C-FDYF

On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 9:33 AM, Charlie Eubanks
<charlie@troyairpark.com> wrote:
[quote]Wayne, Ted, Ken & Keith

Thanks for all the help and suggestions on re-locating the shut off valves.
I agree the fuel vales should be on the pre-flight check list and left in
the "ON" position most of the time. I guess I have the latest shut off
valves they are marked "JT"

WALTER KLATT · Post by **WALTER KLATT** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:54 pm

And with only the top mounted independent valves, be very careful when running one tank dry while flying. The sequence for closing and opening the valves is very critical to avoid an air lock. I know this from first hand experience and am able to replicate the issue on the ground.

We've discussed it before on the list, but here is the sequence. When you run one tank dry, with the other full tank closed, you must first open the full tank before you close the dry one. Otherwise, your engine will quit, and you will not be able to keep it running. It will restart, but then keep quitting on you.

The problem is that air gets trapped when you close the empty one, and the full one can't flow fast enough. It flows just enough to start your engine, but it will keep quitting on you. If you keep the empty one open, the locked air will vent up through it, and allow the good tank to feed down to the carb. Once it is feeding OK, and the air is out, then you can close the empty one.

It took me a while to figure this out when it happened. Luckily, I was on the ground when I first did it.

With floor mounted valves you avoid this problem, as the air can't get locked in the lines above to the tanks.

Walter

----- Original Message -----
From: Dennis Finley <croydonmac@gmail.com>
Date: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 10:42 am
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Fuel slector valves
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com

hi Charlie
just a few notes that i have experienced,be care full ware you mount
on the floor,my friend has a rebel with his selector on the
floor and
on more than one occasion passengers have bumped it in the off
position with out noing it,this can cause quite a start.if you mount
up by the wing if you have a fuel leek it is shut off at the source
,on the floor you have quite a distance before you get to the
selector.this be comes more of a problem if you use any rubber hose,i
chose to use all alum line with only 2 connection as to lesson any
chance of a leek

Dennis Finley
Elite Amphib C-FDYF

On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 9:33 AM, Charlie Eubanks
<charlie@troyairpark.com> wrote:
Wayne, Ted, Ken & Keith

Thanks for all the help and suggestions on re-locating the
shut off valves.
I agree the fuel vales should be on the pre-flight check list
and left in
the "ON" position most of the time. I guess I have the latest

shut off

valves they are marked "JT"

Drew Dalgleish · Post by **Drew Dalgleish** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:54 pm

Hi Walter I wonder if that problem could be unique to your plane cuz I
often run the pilots side tank empty to help balance my plane and get
maximum range. I think I usually turn off the empty tank before turning on
the one with fuel in it and I've never expreienced any delay in the engine
restarting.
As for floor mounted valves consider where you place it so that if you ever
install floats you will be able to easily crawl through to the other side
for docking, pumping out, refueling etc.

At 11:27 AM 22/12/2009 -0800, you wrote:

And with only the top mounted independent valves, be very careful when

running one tank dry while flying. The sequence for closing and opening the
valves is very critical to avoid an air lock. I know this from first hand
experience and am able to replicate the issue on the ground.

We've discussed it before on the list, but here is the sequence. When you

run one tank dry, with the other full tank closed, you must first open the
full tank before you close the dry one. Otherwise, your engine will quit,
and you will not be able to keep it running. It will restart, but then keep
quitting on you.

The problem is that air gets trapped when you close the empty one, and the

full one can't flow fast enough. It flows just enough to start your engine,
but it will keep quitting on you. If you keep the empty one open, the
locked air will vent up through it, and allow the good tank to feed down to
the carb. Once it is feeding OK, and the air is out, then you can close the
empty one.

It took me a while to figure this out when it happened. Luckily, I was on

the ground when I first did it.

With floor mounted valves you avoid this problem, as the air can't get

locked in the lines above to the tanks.

Walter

Drew

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Ron Shannon · Post by **Ron Shannon** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:54 pm

I believe the tank venting design will have an influence on this switching
procedure. Not to reopen a subject that's been covered quite a bit (see
archives) I think with dual vents and full cross vent (and perhaps other
configurations) it may be possible to run one tank dry before switching as
Drew suggests -- if you're so inclined. Personally, I wouldn't intentionally
cause an in flight shutdown except in an emergency scenario where fuel
reserves absolutely had to be managed that tightly. Your mileage may vary --
literally. :-)

Ron
254R

On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 2:41 PM, Drew Dalgleish <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>wrote:

Hi Walter I wonder if that problem could be unique to your plane cuz I
often run the pilots side tank empty to help balance my plane and get
maximum range. I think I usually turn off the empty tank before turning on
the one with fuel in it and I've never expreienced any delay in the engine
restarting.
As for floor mounted valves consider where you place it so that if you ever
install floats you will be able to easily crawl through to the other side
for docking, pumping out, refueling etc.

At 11:27 AM 22/12/2009 -0800, you wrote:
And with only the top mounted independent valves, be very careful when
running one tank dry while flying. The sequence for closing and opening the
valves is very critical to avoid an air lock. I know this from first hand
experience and am able to replicate the issue on the ground.
We've discussed it before on the list, but here is the sequence. When you
run one tank dry, with the other full tank closed, you must first open the
full tank before you close the dry one. Otherwise, your engine will quit,
and you will not be able to keep it running. It will restart, but then keep
quitting on you.
The problem is that air gets trapped when you close the empty one, and the
full one can't flow fast enough. It flows just enough to start your engine,
but it will keep quitting on you. If you keep the empty one open, the
locked air will vent up through it, and allow the good tank to feed down to
the carb. Once it is feeding OK, and the air is out, then you can close the
empty one.
It took me a while to figure this out when it happened. Luckily, I was on
the ground when I first did it.
With floor mounted valves you avoid this problem, as the air can't get
locked in the lines above to the tanks.
Walter
Drew

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Walter Klatt · Post by **Walter Klatt** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:54 pm

I am quite sure it will happen to any tank valve top mounted gravity feed
set up in a Rebel or Elite. I have my tanks cross vented, plus a snorkel
vent on each cap.

It has to do with trapped air in the lines below the valves. The fuel is
trying to flow down, while the air is trying to vent upwards to the tanks,
which slows the fuel flow enough to stall the engine.

Think about it. When you shut one tank off run to run the other one dry, all
the fuel will run out of both lines when the empty one finally drains. When
the engine runs out of fuel, there will be nothing but air left in both
lines right up to the valves. Then if you close the empty tank valve, you
trap the air there. When you open the full one, the flow has to fight the
air coming up.

If you keep the empty one open, the air has a place to get pushed out and
vented, and no problem.

Again, if you use the right sequence, with opening and closing the valves,
everything is fine. But with the wrong sequence, your engine will quit, and
you will not get it started in time before you hit the ground, guaranteed.

Trust me, I have been there, and I know this issue very, very well. And I
can replicate it on my plane on the ground any time, and I am sure I could
do it to yours if you have the same set up.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Ron
Shannon
Sent: December 22, 2009 3:04 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Fuel slector valves

I believe the tank venting design will have an influence on this switching
procedure. Not to reopen a subject that's been covered quite a bit (see
archives) I think with dual vents and full cross vent (and perhaps other
configurations) it may be possible to run one tank dry before switching as
Drew suggests -- if you're so inclined. Personally, I wouldn't intentionally
cause an in flight shutdown except in an emergency scenario where fuel
reserves absolutely had to be managed that tightly. Your mileage may vary --
literally. :-)

Ron
254R

On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 2:41 PM, Drew Dalgleish
<drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>wrote:

Hi Walter I wonder if that problem could be unique to your plane cuz I
often run the pilots side tank empty to help balance my plane and get
maximum range. I think I usually turn off the empty tank before turning on
the one with fuel in it and I've never expreienced any delay in the engine
restarting.
As for floor mounted valves consider where you place it so that if you

ever

install floats you will be able to easily crawl through to the other side
for docking, pumping out, refueling etc.

At 11:27 AM 22/12/2009 -0800, you wrote:
And with only the top mounted independent valves, be very careful when
running one tank dry while flying. The sequence for closing and opening

the

valves is very critical to avoid an air lock. I know this from first hand
experience and am able to replicate the issue on the ground.
We've discussed it before on the list, but here is the sequence. When you
run one tank dry, with the other full tank closed, you must first open the
full tank before you close the dry one. Otherwise, your engine will quit,
and you will not be able to keep it running. It will restart, but then

keep

quitting on you.
The problem is that air gets trapped when you close the empty one, and

the

full one can't flow fast enough. It flows just enough to start your

engine,

but it will keep quitting on you. If you keep the empty one open, the
locked air will vent up through it, and allow the good tank to feed down

to

the carb. Once it is feeding OK, and the air is out, then you can close

the

empty one.
It took me a while to figure this out when it happened. Luckily, I was on
the ground when I first did it.
With floor mounted valves you avoid this problem, as the air can't get
locked in the lines above to the tanks.
Walter
Drew

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Walter Klatt · Post by **Walter Klatt** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:54 pm

Drew, it might depend on how dry you run your empty tank. If you run empty
enough so that the engine quits, then you would have drained the line in the
good tank too. But if you do the switch fast, you might still have a chance
because there is still fuel left in the good line.

Try it on the ground. Close one tank, run the other dry at the gascolator.
Then close the good tank, and keep them both closed until you are ready to
start the engine. Open the good one (empty one is still closed), and the
engine should start right up. Run it for a while, and run it up a bit. It
will soon quit. The wait a minute and start it again, and it will quit again
on you.

I have done this several times with mine, and it was very consistent. So
can't believe it wouldn't be the same on other similar set-ups.

I should add my lines are as per the original MAM instructions, and join in
a T just before the gascolator. If you T them earlier in the middle of the
cabin, maybe that makes a difference, in that there is less air to be
pushed, and a little more fuel head pressure.

It also might depend on how full your good tank is. Try it when it has only
about 5 gal or so.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Drew
Dalgleish
Sent: December 22, 2009 2:41 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Fuel slector valves

Hi Walter I wonder if that problem could be unique to your plane cuz I
often run the pilots side tank empty to help balance my plane and get
maximum range. I think I usually turn off the empty tank before turning on
the one with fuel in it and I've never expreienced any delay in the engine
restarting.
As for floor mounted valves consider where you place it so that if you ever
install floats you will be able to easily crawl through to the other side
for docking, pumping out, refueling etc.

At 11:27 AM 22/12/2009 -0800, you wrote:

And with only the top mounted independent valves, be very careful when

running one tank dry while flying. The sequence for closing and opening the
valves is very critical to avoid an air lock. I know this from first hand
experience and am able to replicate the issue on the ground.

We've discussed it before on the list, but here is the sequence. When you

run one tank dry, with the other full tank closed, you must first open the
full tank before you close the dry one. Otherwise, your engine will quit,
and you will not be able to keep it running. It will restart, but then keep
quitting on you.

The problem is that air gets trapped when you close the empty one, and the

full one can't flow fast enough. It flows just enough to start your engine,
but it will keep quitting on you. If you keep the empty one open, the
locked air will vent up through it, and allow the good tank to feed down to
the carb. Once it is feeding OK, and the air is out, then you can close the
empty one.

It took me a while to figure this out when it happened. Luckily, I was on

the ground when I first did it.

With floor mounted valves you avoid this problem, as the air can't get

locked in the lines above to the tanks.

Walter

Drew

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Ron Shannon · Post by **Ron Shannon** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:54 pm

I see your point, Walter. I stand corrected, which is where I usually stand.
:)

Ron
254R

On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 3:34 PM, Walter Klatt <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca> wrote:

...

Think about it. When you shut one tank off run to run the other one dry,
all
the fuel will run out of both lines when the empty one finally drains. When
the engine runs out of fuel, there will be nothing but air left in both
lines right up to the valves. Then if you close the empty tank valve, you
trap the air there. When you open the full one, the flow has to fight the
air coming up.

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Charlie Eubanks · Post by **Charlie Eubanks** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:54 pm

Good to hear from you Nig. Thanks for the encouragement, sounds like you are
making good progress with your Elite. I will let you know how the fuel
valves turns out.
Merry Christmas.
Charlie E. 802R
----- Original Message -----
From: "N.Smith" <admin@airnig.co.uk>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 12:15 PM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Fuel slector valves

[quote]Hi Charlie

I've just gone for an Andair left right both off selector located on an
extra panel below the main panel that also holds the amphib gear selector
and pressure gauge.
I've not bothered with the wing root fittings (a la Cessna) and the andair
unit is easily reached from either front seat.
I know there are cheaper alternatives, but the andair is a nice piece of
engineering :-)

Nig
745E
(actually got some snow this year :-)

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Charlie Eubanks
Sent: 22 December 2009 17:33
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Fuel slector valves

Wayne, Ted, Ken & Keith

Thanks for all the help and suggestions on re-locating the shut off
valves.
I agree the fuel vales should be on the pre-flight check list and left in
the "ON" position most of the time. I guess I have the latest shut off
valves they are marked "JT"

Walter Klatt · Post by **Walter Klatt** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:54 pm

Yeah, it is just a nasty surprise you can avoid if you do it in the right
sequence. You do not want to be trying to figure it out in the air, when you
are gliding down and can't understand why the engine won't keep running.

Again, the problem can be completely avoided with bottom selector valves, or
just remember to do it in the right sequence. At the least just have both
valves open, and you will be OK.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Ron
Shannon
Sent: December 22, 2009 3:47 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Fuel slector valves

I see your point, Walter. I stand corrected, which is where I usually stand.
:)

Ron
254R

On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 3:34 PM, Walter Klatt <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca> wrote:

...

Think about it. When you shut one tank off run to run the other one dry,
all
the fuel will run out of both lines when the empty one finally drains.

When

the engine runs out of fuel, there will be nothing but air left in both
lines right up to the valves. Then if you close the empty tank valve, you
trap the air there. When you open the full one, the flow has to fight the
air coming up.

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Wayne G. O'Shea · Post by **Wayne G. O'Shea** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:54 pm

If you're 30 miles from home.. with no where to land.. and the fuel gauges
banged empty a few miles back.. you'd be smart to have one side shut off and
then time just how far you get before sputter and then hope that you get the
same time out of the other side.... so you know if you will make it or if
you should land on a highway/farmers field or the first thing that looks
close to a landing patch comes along! Leaving it on both... you'll have no
idea how far you can get.

Now that I've looked at the pictures of the build on your Rebel...with the
header tank so low and far back in the fuselage that it wouldn't give you
any head pressure when the wing tank quits feeding it.. I'm surprised they
didnt' install a fuel pump on your motor to pass final inspection. You could
never run a tank to empty with that system, because at engine sputter by the
time the other tank filled the header tank back up you'd be a glider
already.

Can you reach that forward fuel valve with your shoulder belt done up?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin & Nancy Mayville" <knmay@sympatico.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2009 9:18 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Fuel slector valves

I am going to jump in here because I don't understand why any one needs to
drain one tank completely, I can understand burning one tank down to say
3/4
or so for balance, I would never run a tank down until the engine coughs !
I run both my tanks at the same time and I don't have any balance problems
with or without a passenger.

My fuel system is a little different I have a ball valve at each aft wing
root ( which I can reach ) and then each tank flows in to a small tank
like
a header tank ( aprox 2''x3'' x 16'' long mounted vertically ) aft of the
pilots seat. then the main shut off valve is just forward of the pilots
door
.

This header tank eliminates any chance of air being trapped in the fuel
line. I believe this was the fix for the first generation of Glass Stars
because the fuel sloshed in the tanks and allowed air to block the fuel
lines like Walter stated, which caused some unscheduled landing .

Kevin C-FRFP

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 6:34 PM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Fuel slector valves

I am quite sure it will happen to any tank valve top mounted gravity feed
set up in a Rebel or Elite. I have my tanks cross vented, plus a snorkel
vent on each cap.

It has to do with trapped air in the lines below the valves. The fuel is
trying to flow down, while the air is trying to vent upwards to the
tanks,
which slows the fuel flow enough to stall the engine.

Think about it. When you shut one tank off run to run the other one dry,
all
the fuel will run out of both lines when the empty one finally drains.
When
the engine runs out of fuel, there will be nothing but air left in both
lines right up to the valves. Then if you close the empty tank valve, you
trap the air there. When you open the full one, the flow has to fight the
air coming up.

If you keep the empty one open, the air has a place to get pushed out and
vented, and no problem.

Again, if you use the right sequence, with opening and closing the
valves,
everything is fine. But with the wrong sequence, your engine will quit,
and
you will not get it started in time before you hit the ground,
guaranteed.

Trust me, I have been there, and I know this issue very, very well. And I
can replicate it on my plane on the ground any time, and I am sure I
could
do it to yours if you have the same set up.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Ron
Shannon
Sent: December 22, 2009 3:04 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Fuel slector valves

I believe the tank venting design will have an influence on this
switching
procedure. Not to reopen a subject that's been covered quite a bit (see
archives) I think with dual vents and full cross vent (and perhaps other
configurations) it may be possible to run one tank dry before switching
as
Drew suggests -- if you're so inclined. Personally, I wouldn't
intentionally
cause an in flight shutdown except in an emergency scenario where fuel
reserves absolutely had to be managed that tightly. Your mileage may
vary --
literally. :-)

Ron
254R

On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 2:41 PM, Drew Dalgleish
<drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>wrote:

Hi Walter I wonder if that problem could be unique to your plane cuz I
often run the pilots side tank empty to help balance my plane and get
maximum range. I think I usually turn off the empty tank before turning
on
the one with fuel in it and I've never expreienced any delay in the
engine
restarting.
As for floor mounted valves consider where you place it so that if you
ever
install floats you will be able to easily crawl through to the other
side
for docking, pumping out, refueling etc.

At 11:27 AM 22/12/2009 -0800, you wrote: running one tank dry while flying. The sequence for closing and opening
the
valves is very critical to avoid an air lock. I know this from first
hand
experience and am able to replicate the issue on the ground. run one tank dry, with the other full tank closed, you must first open
the
full tank before you close the dry one. Otherwise, your engine will
quit,
and you will not be able to keep it running. It will restart, but then
keep
quitting on you.
the
full one can't flow fast enough. It flows just enough to start your
engine,
but it will keep quitting on you. If you keep the empty one open, the
locked air will vent up through it, and allow the good tank to feed down
to
the carb. Once it is feeding OK, and the air is out, then you can close
the
empty one. the ground when I first did it. locked in the lines above to the tanks. Drew

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