A few other guys have mentioned this as well Charlie.
It might be due to the aileron horns being riveted on in slightly
different positions or the horns on the torque tube riveted on in
slightly different positions. If that is the case you may have to live
with it. Markedly different length push rods on the aileron horns will
also do it.
Another thing that could do it is if the mixer bellcrank is backwards.
That bellcrank is not quite symetrical and it is easy to install it
backwards.
On a separate issue:
With your modified bellcrank, do you notice any affect on the elevator
when you go full left or right aileron. I have been hesitant to make
that mod.
Ken
Charlie Eubanks wrote:
[quote]Hello all
I have a question on flap deployment.
Thanks to Ron Shannon I now have the correct length of Teleflex cable
installed in my Rebel. After modifying the hole location from 2-3/8" to 2"
on the newer bell crank I am now able to get 4" up (16.7
Do you want this big green box to go away? Well here's how...
Click here for full update
Wildcat! photo archives restored.
Click here for full update
Donors can now disable ads.
Click here for instructions
Add yourself to the user map.
Click here for instructions
Click here for full update
Wildcat! photo archives restored.
Click here for full update
Donors can now disable ads.
Click here for instructions
Add yourself to the user map.
Click here for instructions
[rebel-builders] Adjusting Aileron/Flaps
-
Charlie Eubanks
[rebel-builders] Adjusting Aileron/Flaps
Hi Ken
You are right in that there are a number of things that could contribute to
the unevenness and difficultly in getting the controls properly rigged. I
followed all the steps in the manual I thought but it still a head
scratchier. My smaller push rods and the 2" torque tubes in the fuselage are
just clecoed so I can still do some adjusting, if I can figure out what to
do next.
The other item in your message about the mixer bell crank was a BIG surprise
to me. I can find nowhere in my manual any mention of the mixer bell crank
having a uneven hole pattern or that it could be installed backwards. I
assumed it to be symmetrical. I just checked the hole pattern and you are
correct. The holes for the two smaller push rods are a 1/8" different in
distance from the hole for the 1" push rod. If this info is a factor in the
successful rigging of the controls, on which side does it go? Was there
somewhere in the Rebel files an alert posted I may have missed? I guess it
still not to late but this info may have saved a lot of time and head aches
had I have known.
Sorry I can't answer your question about the modified bell cranks effect on
the elevator. I have yet to install the elevator or rudder cables. I would
be interested in your concern however.
Thanks for the heads up on the mixer bell crank.
Charlie E. 802R
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken" <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 8:37 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Adjusting Aileron/Flaps
[quote]A few other guys have mentioned this as well Charlie.
It might be due to the aileron horns being riveted on in slightly
different positions or the horns on the torque tube riveted on in
slightly different positions. If that is the case you may have to live
with it. Markedly different length push rods on the aileron horns will
also do it.
Another thing that could do it is if the mixer bellcrank is backwards.
That bellcrank is not quite symetrical and it is easy to install it
backwards.
On a separate issue:
With your modified bellcrank, do you notice any affect on the elevator
when you go full left or right aileron. I have been hesitant to make
that mod.
Ken
Charlie Eubanks wrote:
[quote]Hello all
I have a question on flap deployment.
Thanks to Ron Shannon I now have the correct length of Teleflex cable
installed in my Rebel. After modifying the hole location from 2-3/8" to
2"
on the newer bell crank I am now able to get 4" up (16.7
You are right in that there are a number of things that could contribute to
the unevenness and difficultly in getting the controls properly rigged. I
followed all the steps in the manual I thought but it still a head
scratchier. My smaller push rods and the 2" torque tubes in the fuselage are
just clecoed so I can still do some adjusting, if I can figure out what to
do next.
The other item in your message about the mixer bell crank was a BIG surprise
to me. I can find nowhere in my manual any mention of the mixer bell crank
having a uneven hole pattern or that it could be installed backwards. I
assumed it to be symmetrical. I just checked the hole pattern and you are
correct. The holes for the two smaller push rods are a 1/8" different in
distance from the hole for the 1" push rod. If this info is a factor in the
successful rigging of the controls, on which side does it go? Was there
somewhere in the Rebel files an alert posted I may have missed? I guess it
still not to late but this info may have saved a lot of time and head aches
had I have known.
Sorry I can't answer your question about the modified bell cranks effect on
the elevator. I have yet to install the elevator or rudder cables. I would
be interested in your concern however.
Thanks for the heads up on the mixer bell crank.
Charlie E. 802R
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken" <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 8:37 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Adjusting Aileron/Flaps
[quote]A few other guys have mentioned this as well Charlie.
It might be due to the aileron horns being riveted on in slightly
different positions or the horns on the torque tube riveted on in
slightly different positions. If that is the case you may have to live
with it. Markedly different length push rods on the aileron horns will
also do it.
Another thing that could do it is if the mixer bellcrank is backwards.
That bellcrank is not quite symetrical and it is easy to install it
backwards.
On a separate issue:
With your modified bellcrank, do you notice any affect on the elevator
when you go full left or right aileron. I have been hesitant to make
that mod.
Ken
Charlie Eubanks wrote:
[quote]Hello all
I have a question on flap deployment.
Thanks to Ron Shannon I now have the correct length of Teleflex cable
installed in my Rebel. After modifying the hole location from 2-3/8" to
2"
on the newer bell crank I am now able to get 4" up (16.7
-
Jeff Micheal
[rebel-builders] Adjusting Aileron/Flaps
Hi Charlie,
The positioning of the Mixer (CC-48-2) is not well defined in the builder's
manual (much like many other sections of the manual) but we persevere and
move forward. The correct forward horn position of the Mixer is, when
measured from the center of the 1" hole to the 1/4" hole is *1.8"*. The
lesser measured distance from center to center is 1.7" (this horn faces
aft).
Another factor in aileron/flapperon deflection is the angles measured at the
mixer and vertical P/P tubes, the angles measured at the bottom must be the
same at the top mounting position as well (horns & 2" tubes).
Cheers,
Jeff
On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 11:09 AM, Charlie Eubanks
<charlie@troyairpark.com>wrote:
[quote]Hi Ken
You are right in that there are a number of things that could contribute to
the unevenness and difficultly in getting the controls properly rigged. I
followed all the steps in the manual I thought but it still a head
scratchier. My smaller push rods and the 2" torque tubes in the fuselage
are
just clecoed so I can still do some adjusting, if I can figure out what to
do next.
The other item in your message about the mixer bell crank was a BIG
surprise
to me. I can find nowhere in my manual any mention of the mixer bell crank
having a uneven hole pattern or that it could be installed backwards. I
assumed it to be symmetrical. I just checked the hole pattern and you are
correct. The holes for the two smaller push rods are a 1/8" different in
distance from the hole for the 1" push rod. If this info is a factor in the
successful rigging of the controls, on which side does it go? Was there
somewhere in the Rebel files an alert posted I may have missed? I guess it
still not to late but this info may have saved a lot of time and head aches
had I have known.
Sorry I can't answer your question about the modified bell cranks effect on
the elevator. I have yet to install the elevator or rudder cables. I would
be interested in your concern however.
Thanks for the heads up on the mixer bell crank.
Charlie E. 802R
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken" <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 8:37 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Adjusting Aileron/Flaps
[quote]A few other guys have mentioned this as well Charlie.
It might be due to the aileron horns being riveted on in slightly
different positions or the horns on the torque tube riveted on in
slightly different positions. If that is the case you may have to live
with it. Markedly different length push rods on the aileron horns will
also do it.
Another thing that could do it is if the mixer bellcrank is backwards.
That bellcrank is not quite symetrical and it is easy to install it
backwards.
On a separate issue:
With your modified bellcrank, do you notice any affect on the elevator
when you go full left or right aileron. I have been hesitant to make
that mod.
Ken
Charlie Eubanks wrote:
[quote]Hello all
I have a question on flap deployment.
Thanks to Ron Shannon I now have the correct length of Teleflex cable
installed in my Rebel. After modifying the hole location from 2-3/8" to
2"
on the newer bell crank I am now able to get 4" up (16.7
The positioning of the Mixer (CC-48-2) is not well defined in the builder's
manual (much like many other sections of the manual) but we persevere and
move forward. The correct forward horn position of the Mixer is, when
measured from the center of the 1" hole to the 1/4" hole is *1.8"*. The
lesser measured distance from center to center is 1.7" (this horn faces
aft).
Another factor in aileron/flapperon deflection is the angles measured at the
mixer and vertical P/P tubes, the angles measured at the bottom must be the
same at the top mounting position as well (horns & 2" tubes).
Cheers,
Jeff
On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 11:09 AM, Charlie Eubanks
<charlie@troyairpark.com>wrote:
[quote]Hi Ken
You are right in that there are a number of things that could contribute to
the unevenness and difficultly in getting the controls properly rigged. I
followed all the steps in the manual I thought but it still a head
scratchier. My smaller push rods and the 2" torque tubes in the fuselage
are
just clecoed so I can still do some adjusting, if I can figure out what to
do next.
The other item in your message about the mixer bell crank was a BIG
surprise
to me. I can find nowhere in my manual any mention of the mixer bell crank
having a uneven hole pattern or that it could be installed backwards. I
assumed it to be symmetrical. I just checked the hole pattern and you are
correct. The holes for the two smaller push rods are a 1/8" different in
distance from the hole for the 1" push rod. If this info is a factor in the
successful rigging of the controls, on which side does it go? Was there
somewhere in the Rebel files an alert posted I may have missed? I guess it
still not to late but this info may have saved a lot of time and head aches
had I have known.
Sorry I can't answer your question about the modified bell cranks effect on
the elevator. I have yet to install the elevator or rudder cables. I would
be interested in your concern however.
Thanks for the heads up on the mixer bell crank.
Charlie E. 802R
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken" <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 8:37 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Adjusting Aileron/Flaps
[quote]A few other guys have mentioned this as well Charlie.
It might be due to the aileron horns being riveted on in slightly
different positions or the horns on the torque tube riveted on in
slightly different positions. If that is the case you may have to live
with it. Markedly different length push rods on the aileron horns will
also do it.
Another thing that could do it is if the mixer bellcrank is backwards.
That bellcrank is not quite symetrical and it is easy to install it
backwards.
On a separate issue:
With your modified bellcrank, do you notice any affect on the elevator
when you go full left or right aileron. I have been hesitant to make
that mod.
Ken
Charlie Eubanks wrote:
[quote]Hello all
I have a question on flap deployment.
Thanks to Ron Shannon I now have the correct length of Teleflex cable
installed in my Rebel. After modifying the hole location from 2-3/8" to
2"
on the newer bell crank I am now able to get 4" up (16.7
-
Ken
[rebel-builders] Adjusting Aileron/Flaps
Charlie
The archives has info on the mixer but sounds like Jeff has answered
that. I would not have remembered which way it goes but I do remember
working out the geometry at the time.
My curiosity about modifying the forward bellcrank would only apply if
the bellcrank was not centered on the control tube. It would be offset a
bit if I just drill a new hole and don't move the bellcrank. My
elevators are very light to move and fairly sensitive but it takes firm
side pressure to get full aileron in flight when the flaperons are down.
So just drilling the new hole might produce a tendency to move the
control stick forward or aft a bit when I apply aileron. That's my
excuse for not doing it yet anyway ;)
I would not be too concerned about perfection here. A half inch is not
very significant. I should take my own advice eh? Might be annoying when
you extend the flaps if the stick moves sideways but you probably
wouldn't notice after awhile. It is important to make sure the teleflex
cable is tensioned when you rig them though. ie don't rig them with the
teleflex holding the flaperons up or you will not get anywhere near full
extension in flight.
Ken
Charlie Eubanks wrote:
[quote]Hi Ken
You are right in that there are a number of things that could contribute to
the unevenness and difficultly in getting the controls properly rigged. I
followed all the steps in the manual I thought but it still a head
scratchier. My smaller push rods and the 2" torque tubes in the fuselage are
just clecoed so I can still do some adjusting, if I can figure out what to
do next.
The other item in your message about the mixer bell crank was a BIG surprise
to me. I can find nowhere in my manual any mention of the mixer bell crank
having a uneven hole pattern or that it could be installed backwards. I
assumed it to be symmetrical. I just checked the hole pattern and you are
correct. The holes for the two smaller push rods are a 1/8" different in
distance from the hole for the 1" push rod. If this info is a factor in the
successful rigging of the controls, on which side does it go? Was there
somewhere in the Rebel files an alert posted I may have missed? I guess it
still not to late but this info may have saved a lot of time and head aches
had I have known.
Sorry I can't answer your question about the modified bell cranks effect on
the elevator. I have yet to install the elevator or rudder cables. I would
be interested in your concern however.
Thanks for the heads up on the mixer bell crank.
Charlie E. 802R
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken" <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 8:37 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Adjusting Aileron/Flaps
[quote]A few other guys have mentioned this as well Charlie.
It might be due to the aileron horns being riveted on in slightly
different positions or the horns on the torque tube riveted on in
slightly different positions. If that is the case you may have to live
with it. Markedly different length push rods on the aileron horns will
also do it.
Another thing that could do it is if the mixer bellcrank is backwards.
That bellcrank is not quite symetrical and it is easy to install it
backwards.
On a separate issue:
With your modified bellcrank, do you notice any affect on the elevator
when you go full left or right aileron. I have been hesitant to make
that mod.
Ken
Charlie Eubanks wrote:
[quote]Hello all
I have a question on flap deployment.
Thanks to Ron Shannon I now have the correct length of Teleflex cable
installed in my Rebel. After modifying the hole location from 2-3/8" to
2"
on the newer bell crank I am now able to get 4" up (16.7
The archives has info on the mixer but sounds like Jeff has answered
that. I would not have remembered which way it goes but I do remember
working out the geometry at the time.
My curiosity about modifying the forward bellcrank would only apply if
the bellcrank was not centered on the control tube. It would be offset a
bit if I just drill a new hole and don't move the bellcrank. My
elevators are very light to move and fairly sensitive but it takes firm
side pressure to get full aileron in flight when the flaperons are down.
So just drilling the new hole might produce a tendency to move the
control stick forward or aft a bit when I apply aileron. That's my
excuse for not doing it yet anyway ;)
I would not be too concerned about perfection here. A half inch is not
very significant. I should take my own advice eh? Might be annoying when
you extend the flaps if the stick moves sideways but you probably
wouldn't notice after awhile. It is important to make sure the teleflex
cable is tensioned when you rig them though. ie don't rig them with the
teleflex holding the flaperons up or you will not get anywhere near full
extension in flight.
Ken
Charlie Eubanks wrote:
[quote]Hi Ken
You are right in that there are a number of things that could contribute to
the unevenness and difficultly in getting the controls properly rigged. I
followed all the steps in the manual I thought but it still a head
scratchier. My smaller push rods and the 2" torque tubes in the fuselage are
just clecoed so I can still do some adjusting, if I can figure out what to
do next.
The other item in your message about the mixer bell crank was a BIG surprise
to me. I can find nowhere in my manual any mention of the mixer bell crank
having a uneven hole pattern or that it could be installed backwards. I
assumed it to be symmetrical. I just checked the hole pattern and you are
correct. The holes for the two smaller push rods are a 1/8" different in
distance from the hole for the 1" push rod. If this info is a factor in the
successful rigging of the controls, on which side does it go? Was there
somewhere in the Rebel files an alert posted I may have missed? I guess it
still not to late but this info may have saved a lot of time and head aches
had I have known.
Sorry I can't answer your question about the modified bell cranks effect on
the elevator. I have yet to install the elevator or rudder cables. I would
be interested in your concern however.
Thanks for the heads up on the mixer bell crank.
Charlie E. 802R
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken" <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 8:37 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Adjusting Aileron/Flaps
[quote]A few other guys have mentioned this as well Charlie.
It might be due to the aileron horns being riveted on in slightly
different positions or the horns on the torque tube riveted on in
slightly different positions. If that is the case you may have to live
with it. Markedly different length push rods on the aileron horns will
also do it.
Another thing that could do it is if the mixer bellcrank is backwards.
That bellcrank is not quite symetrical and it is easy to install it
backwards.
On a separate issue:
With your modified bellcrank, do you notice any affect on the elevator
when you go full left or right aileron. I have been hesitant to make
that mod.
Ken
Charlie Eubanks wrote:
[quote]Hello all
I have a question on flap deployment.
Thanks to Ron Shannon I now have the correct length of Teleflex cable
installed in my Rebel. After modifying the hole location from 2-3/8" to
2"
on the newer bell crank I am now able to get 4" up (16.7
-
Charlie Eubanks
[rebel-builders] Adjusting Aileron/Flaps
Hello Jeff
I have seen your name quite often as of late and you have been very helpful
and right on top of things. Are you the same Jeff that is with Murphy?
Either way I sure appreciate your help. I am still a little confused. I
reversed the mixer bell crank and there are considerable differences in the
control dimension I found.
I just measured the hole pattern of the mixer bell crank that I have and I
hope I can clearly describe the dimensions I found.
From the center of the large 1" hole to the center of each
I have seen your name quite often as of late and you have been very helpful
and right on top of things. Are you the same Jeff that is with Murphy?
Either way I sure appreciate your help. I am still a little confused. I
reversed the mixer bell crank and there are considerable differences in the
control dimension I found.
I just measured the hole pattern of the mixer bell crank that I have and I
hope I can clearly describe the dimensions I found.
From the center of the large 1" hole to the center of each
-
Jeff Micheal
[rebel-builders] Adjusting Aileron/Flaps
Hello Charlie,
Sorry I mislead you in the measurements, I should of chosen my words
differently. The measurements I had given are not C to C, but measured from
center line. I will send you my hand drawing of the part (CC-48-2) and its
correct placement as installed in the AC.
Cheers,
Jeff
On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 3:44 PM, Charlie Eubanks <charlie@troyairpark.com>wrote:
[quote]Hello Jeff
I have seen your name quite often as of late and you have been very helpful
and right on top of things. Are you the same Jeff that is with Murphy?
Either way I sure appreciate your help. I am still a little confused. I
reversed the mixer bell crank and there are considerable differences in the
control dimension I found.
I just measured the hole pattern of the mixer bell crank that I have and I
hope I can clearly describe the dimensions I found.
From the center of the large 1" hole to the center of each
Sorry I mislead you in the measurements, I should of chosen my words
differently. The measurements I had given are not C to C, but measured from
center line. I will send you my hand drawing of the part (CC-48-2) and its
correct placement as installed in the AC.
Cheers,
Jeff
On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 3:44 PM, Charlie Eubanks <charlie@troyairpark.com>wrote:
[quote]Hello Jeff
I have seen your name quite often as of late and you have been very helpful
and right on top of things. Are you the same Jeff that is with Murphy?
Either way I sure appreciate your help. I am still a little confused. I
reversed the mixer bell crank and there are considerable differences in the
control dimension I found.
I just measured the hole pattern of the mixer bell crank that I have and I
hope I can clearly describe the dimensions I found.
From the center of the large 1" hole to the center of each
-
Charlie Eubanks
[rebel-builders] Adjusting Aileron/Flaps
Thanks Jeff
I understand I will let you know how it all turns out.
Charlie E.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Micheal" <westcoastkitplanes@gmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 8:37 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Adjusting Aileron/Flaps
[quote]Hello Charlie,
Sorry I mislead you in the measurements, I should of chosen my words
differently. The measurements I had given are not C to C, but measured
from
center line. I will send you my hand drawing of the part (CC-48-2) and
its
correct placement as installed in the AC.
Cheers,
Jeff
On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 3:44 PM, Charlie Eubanks
<charlie@troyairpark.com>wrote:
[quote]Hello Jeff
I have seen your name quite often as of late and you have been very
helpful
and right on top of things. Are you the same Jeff that is with Murphy?
Either way I sure appreciate your help. I am still a little confused. I
reversed the mixer bell crank and there are considerable differences in
the
control dimension I found.
I just measured the hole pattern of the mixer bell crank that I have and
I
hope I can clearly describe the dimensions I found.
From the center of the large 1" hole to the center of each
I understand I will let you know how it all turns out.
Charlie E.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Micheal" <westcoastkitplanes@gmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 8:37 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Adjusting Aileron/Flaps
[quote]Hello Charlie,
Sorry I mislead you in the measurements, I should of chosen my words
differently. The measurements I had given are not C to C, but measured
from
center line. I will send you my hand drawing of the part (CC-48-2) and
its
correct placement as installed in the AC.
Cheers,
Jeff
On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 3:44 PM, Charlie Eubanks
<charlie@troyairpark.com>wrote:
[quote]Hello Jeff
I have seen your name quite often as of late and you have been very
helpful
and right on top of things. Are you the same Jeff that is with Murphy?
Either way I sure appreciate your help. I am still a little confused. I
reversed the mixer bell crank and there are considerable differences in
the
control dimension I found.
I just measured the hole pattern of the mixer bell crank that I have and
I
hope I can clearly describe the dimensions I found.
From the center of the large 1" hole to the center of each
-
Garry Wright
[rebel-builders] Adjusting Aileron/Flaps
Ken,
Can you elaborate a bit on the last paragraph on being sure the teleflex
cable is tensioned. I don't get full extension in flight and it is a
common complaint of rebel drivers - not that affects its flight that
much. I get full extension until the flaperons are wind loaded then
probably less than half.
Garry
Ken wrote:
[quote]Charlie
The archives has info on the mixer but sounds like Jeff has answered
that. I would not have remembered which way it goes but I do remember
working out the geometry at the time.
My curiosity about modifying the forward bellcrank would only apply if
the bellcrank was not centered on the control tube. It would be offset a
bit if I just drill a new hole and don't move the bellcrank. My
elevators are very light to move and fairly sensitive but it takes firm
side pressure to get full aileron in flight when the flaperons are down.
So just drilling the new hole might produce a tendency to move the
control stick forward or aft a bit when I apply aileron. That's my
excuse for not doing it yet anyway ;)
I would not be too concerned about perfection here. A half inch is not
very significant. I should take my own advice eh? Might be annoying when
you extend the flaps if the stick moves sideways but you probably
wouldn't notice after awhile. It is important to make sure the teleflex
cable is tensioned when you rig them though. ie don't rig them with the
teleflex holding the flaperons up or you will not get anywhere near full
extension in flight.
Ken
Charlie Eubanks wrote:
[quote]Hi Ken
You are right in that there are a number of things that could contribute to
the unevenness and difficultly in getting the controls properly rigged. I
followed all the steps in the manual I thought but it still a head
scratchier. My smaller push rods and the 2" torque tubes in the fuselage are
just clecoed so I can still do some adjusting, if I can figure out what to
do next.
The other item in your message about the mixer bell crank was a BIG surprise
to me. I can find nowhere in my manual any mention of the mixer bell crank
having a uneven hole pattern or that it could be installed backwards. I
assumed it to be symmetrical. I just checked the hole pattern and you are
correct. The holes for the two smaller push rods are a 1/8" different in
distance from the hole for the 1" push rod. If this info is a factor in the
successful rigging of the controls, on which side does it go? Was there
somewhere in the Rebel files an alert posted I may have missed? I guess it
still not to late but this info may have saved a lot of time and head aches
had I have known.
Sorry I can't answer your question about the modified bell cranks effect on
the elevator. I have yet to install the elevator or rudder cables. I would
be interested in your concern however.
Thanks for the heads up on the mixer bell crank.
Charlie E. 802R
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken" <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 8:37 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Adjusting Aileron/Flaps
[quote]A few other guys have mentioned this as well Charlie.
It might be due to the aileron horns being riveted on in slightly
different positions or the horns on the torque tube riveted on in
slightly different positions. If that is the case you may have to live
with it. Markedly different length push rods on the aileron horns will
also do it.
Another thing that could do it is if the mixer bellcrank is backwards.
That bellcrank is not quite symetrical and it is easy to install it
backwards.
On a separate issue:
With your modified bellcrank, do you notice any affect on the elevator
when you go full left or right aileron. I have been hesitant to make
that mod.
Ken
Charlie Eubanks wrote:
[quote]Hello all
I have a question on flap deployment.
Thanks to Ron Shannon I now have the correct length of Teleflex cable
installed in my Rebel. After modifying the hole location from 2-3/8" to
2"
on the newer bell crank I am now able to get 4" up (16.7
Can you elaborate a bit on the last paragraph on being sure the teleflex
cable is tensioned. I don't get full extension in flight and it is a
common complaint of rebel drivers - not that affects its flight that
much. I get full extension until the flaperons are wind loaded then
probably less than half.
Garry
Ken wrote:
[quote]Charlie
The archives has info on the mixer but sounds like Jeff has answered
that. I would not have remembered which way it goes but I do remember
working out the geometry at the time.
My curiosity about modifying the forward bellcrank would only apply if
the bellcrank was not centered on the control tube. It would be offset a
bit if I just drill a new hole and don't move the bellcrank. My
elevators are very light to move and fairly sensitive but it takes firm
side pressure to get full aileron in flight when the flaperons are down.
So just drilling the new hole might produce a tendency to move the
control stick forward or aft a bit when I apply aileron. That's my
excuse for not doing it yet anyway ;)
I would not be too concerned about perfection here. A half inch is not
very significant. I should take my own advice eh? Might be annoying when
you extend the flaps if the stick moves sideways but you probably
wouldn't notice after awhile. It is important to make sure the teleflex
cable is tensioned when you rig them though. ie don't rig them with the
teleflex holding the flaperons up or you will not get anywhere near full
extension in flight.
Ken
Charlie Eubanks wrote:
[quote]Hi Ken
You are right in that there are a number of things that could contribute to
the unevenness and difficultly in getting the controls properly rigged. I
followed all the steps in the manual I thought but it still a head
scratchier. My smaller push rods and the 2" torque tubes in the fuselage are
just clecoed so I can still do some adjusting, if I can figure out what to
do next.
The other item in your message about the mixer bell crank was a BIG surprise
to me. I can find nowhere in my manual any mention of the mixer bell crank
having a uneven hole pattern or that it could be installed backwards. I
assumed it to be symmetrical. I just checked the hole pattern and you are
correct. The holes for the two smaller push rods are a 1/8" different in
distance from the hole for the 1" push rod. If this info is a factor in the
successful rigging of the controls, on which side does it go? Was there
somewhere in the Rebel files an alert posted I may have missed? I guess it
still not to late but this info may have saved a lot of time and head aches
had I have known.
Sorry I can't answer your question about the modified bell cranks effect on
the elevator. I have yet to install the elevator or rudder cables. I would
be interested in your concern however.
Thanks for the heads up on the mixer bell crank.
Charlie E. 802R
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken" <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 8:37 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Adjusting Aileron/Flaps
[quote]A few other guys have mentioned this as well Charlie.
It might be due to the aileron horns being riveted on in slightly
different positions or the horns on the torque tube riveted on in
slightly different positions. If that is the case you may have to live
with it. Markedly different length push rods on the aileron horns will
also do it.
Another thing that could do it is if the mixer bellcrank is backwards.
That bellcrank is not quite symetrical and it is easy to install it
backwards.
On a separate issue:
With your modified bellcrank, do you notice any affect on the elevator
when you go full left or right aileron. I have been hesitant to make
that mod.
Ken
Charlie Eubanks wrote:
[quote]Hello all
I have a question on flap deployment.
Thanks to Ron Shannon I now have the correct length of Teleflex cable
installed in my Rebel. After modifying the hole location from 2-3/8" to
2"
on the newer bell crank I am now able to get 4" up (16.7
-
Charlie Eubanks
[rebel-builders] Adjusting Aileron/Flaps
Ken
I modified the forward bell crank because I was under the impression that I
would not be able to get enough aileron deflection for heavy cross winds
landings. Since I have no time in Rebels. I have no idea how much more stick
force will be required. I hope not to much. Not sure I understand about
rigging in tension?
Charlie E.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken" <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 4:51 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Adjusting Aileron/Flaps
[quote]Charlie
The archives has info on the mixer but sounds like Jeff has answered
that. I would not have remembered which way it goes but I do remember
working out the geometry at the time.
My curiosity about modifying the forward bellcrank would only apply if
the bellcrank was not centered on the control tube. It would be offset a
bit if I just drill a new hole and don't move the bellcrank. My
elevators are very light to move and fairly sensitive but it takes firm
side pressure to get full aileron in flight when the flaperons are down.
So just drilling the new hole might produce a tendency to move the
control stick forward or aft a bit when I apply aileron. That's my
excuse for not doing it yet anyway ;)
I would not be too concerned about perfection here. A half inch is not
very significant. I should take my own advice eh? Might be annoying when
you extend the flaps if the stick moves sideways but you probably
wouldn't notice after awhile. It is important to make sure the teleflex
cable is tensioned when you rig them though. ie don't rig them with the
teleflex holding the flaperons up or you will not get anywhere near full
extension in flight.
Ken
Charlie Eubanks wrote:
[quote]Hi Ken
You are right in that there are a number of things that could contribute
to
the unevenness and difficultly in getting the controls properly rigged. I
followed all the steps in the manual I thought but it still a head
scratchier. My smaller push rods and the 2" torque tubes in the fuselage
are
just clecoed so I can still do some adjusting, if I can figure out what
to
do next.
The other item in your message about the mixer bell crank was a BIG
surprise
to me. I can find nowhere in my manual any mention of the mixer bell
crank
having a uneven hole pattern or that it could be installed backwards. I
assumed it to be symmetrical. I just checked the hole pattern and you are
correct. The holes for the two smaller push rods are a 1/8" different in
distance from the hole for the 1" push rod. If this info is a factor in
the
successful rigging of the controls, on which side does it go? Was there
somewhere in the Rebel files an alert posted I may have missed? I guess
it
still not to late but this info may have saved a lot of time and head
aches
had I have known.
Sorry I can't answer your question about the modified bell cranks effect
on
the elevator. I have yet to install the elevator or rudder cables. I
would
be interested in your concern however.
Thanks for the heads up on the mixer bell crank.
Charlie E. 802R
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken" <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 8:37 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Adjusting Aileron/Flaps
[quote]A few other guys have mentioned this as well Charlie.
It might be due to the aileron horns being riveted on in slightly
different positions or the horns on the torque tube riveted on in
slightly different positions. If that is the case you may have to live
with it. Markedly different length push rods on the aileron horns will
also do it.
Another thing that could do it is if the mixer bellcrank is backwards.
That bellcrank is not quite symetrical and it is easy to install it
backwards.
On a separate issue:
With your modified bellcrank, do you notice any affect on the elevator
when you go full left or right aileron. I have been hesitant to make
that mod.
Ken
Charlie Eubanks wrote:
[quote]Hello all
I have a question on flap deployment.
Thanks to Ron Shannon I now have the correct length of Teleflex cable
installed in my Rebel. After modifying the hole location from 2-3/8" to
2"
on the newer bell crank I am now able to get 4" up (16.7
I modified the forward bell crank because I was under the impression that I
would not be able to get enough aileron deflection for heavy cross winds
landings. Since I have no time in Rebels. I have no idea how much more stick
force will be required. I hope not to much. Not sure I understand about
rigging in tension?
Charlie E.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken" <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 4:51 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Adjusting Aileron/Flaps
[quote]Charlie
The archives has info on the mixer but sounds like Jeff has answered
that. I would not have remembered which way it goes but I do remember
working out the geometry at the time.
My curiosity about modifying the forward bellcrank would only apply if
the bellcrank was not centered on the control tube. It would be offset a
bit if I just drill a new hole and don't move the bellcrank. My
elevators are very light to move and fairly sensitive but it takes firm
side pressure to get full aileron in flight when the flaperons are down.
So just drilling the new hole might produce a tendency to move the
control stick forward or aft a bit when I apply aileron. That's my
excuse for not doing it yet anyway ;)
I would not be too concerned about perfection here. A half inch is not
very significant. I should take my own advice eh? Might be annoying when
you extend the flaps if the stick moves sideways but you probably
wouldn't notice after awhile. It is important to make sure the teleflex
cable is tensioned when you rig them though. ie don't rig them with the
teleflex holding the flaperons up or you will not get anywhere near full
extension in flight.
Ken
Charlie Eubanks wrote:
[quote]Hi Ken
You are right in that there are a number of things that could contribute
to
the unevenness and difficultly in getting the controls properly rigged. I
followed all the steps in the manual I thought but it still a head
scratchier. My smaller push rods and the 2" torque tubes in the fuselage
are
just clecoed so I can still do some adjusting, if I can figure out what
to
do next.
The other item in your message about the mixer bell crank was a BIG
surprise
to me. I can find nowhere in my manual any mention of the mixer bell
crank
having a uneven hole pattern or that it could be installed backwards. I
assumed it to be symmetrical. I just checked the hole pattern and you are
correct. The holes for the two smaller push rods are a 1/8" different in
distance from the hole for the 1" push rod. If this info is a factor in
the
successful rigging of the controls, on which side does it go? Was there
somewhere in the Rebel files an alert posted I may have missed? I guess
it
still not to late but this info may have saved a lot of time and head
aches
had I have known.
Sorry I can't answer your question about the modified bell cranks effect
on
the elevator. I have yet to install the elevator or rudder cables. I
would
be interested in your concern however.
Thanks for the heads up on the mixer bell crank.
Charlie E. 802R
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken" <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 8:37 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Adjusting Aileron/Flaps
[quote]A few other guys have mentioned this as well Charlie.
It might be due to the aileron horns being riveted on in slightly
different positions or the horns on the torque tube riveted on in
slightly different positions. If that is the case you may have to live
with it. Markedly different length push rods on the aileron horns will
also do it.
Another thing that could do it is if the mixer bellcrank is backwards.
That bellcrank is not quite symetrical and it is easy to install it
backwards.
On a separate issue:
With your modified bellcrank, do you notice any affect on the elevator
when you go full left or right aileron. I have been hesitant to make
that mod.
Ken
Charlie Eubanks wrote:
[quote]Hello all
I have a question on flap deployment.
Thanks to Ron Shannon I now have the correct length of Teleflex cable
installed in my Rebel. After modifying the hole location from 2-3/8" to
2"
on the newer bell crank I am now able to get 4" up (16.7
-
Ken
[rebel-builders] Adjusting Aileron/Flaps
The bulletin with control movement specs says 15 degrees max flaperon
and I get 15 to 18 in flight as long as I slow to about 65 knots or
less. In the zero flap position they hang down at least an inch on the
ground. I have to select reflex to get them to fare with the wing in
order to install control locks on the ground. Mostly just a matter of
installing the cable tight enough so you have the room to adjust things.
The mixer lever arm has to be tight enough in the slot that it doesn't
twist too much. If you notice the outer teleflex moving sideways it
doesn't hurt to tie wrap it to the airframe ceiling where possible but
that is very minor. With my slow cruising speed I very rarely use reflex
but they do still reflex almost an inch at the trailing edge.
There is another thing going on on my aircraft. Perhaps my 3 blade Warp
prop in inefficient or something but the more power I have on, the more
the flaperons want to deflect with the spiraling prop wash and roll the
aircraft to the left. That and P factor, and a bit of engine torque,
sometimes surprises other pilots during takeoff. It also means that I
need right aileron trim in cruise to keep the flaperon deflection
neutral. This is heresy here but I think I'd like separate flaps as long
as I could still drop the ailerons like Steve Sloan does. That would
also reduce the required stick force to get full aileron deflection and
harmonize the controls better during crosswind ops IMO.
Ken
Garry Wright wrote:
[quote]Ken,
Can you elaborate a bit on the last paragraph on being sure the teleflex
cable is tensioned. I don't get full extension in flight and it is a
common complaint of rebel drivers - not that affects its flight that
much. I get full extension until the flaperons are wind loaded then
probably less than half.
Garry
Ken wrote:
[quote]Charlie
The archives has info on the mixer but sounds like Jeff has answered
that. I would not have remembered which way it goes but I do remember
working out the geometry at the time.
My curiosity about modifying the forward bellcrank would only apply if
the bellcrank was not centered on the control tube. It would be offset a
bit if I just drill a new hole and don't move the bellcrank. My
elevators are very light to move and fairly sensitive but it takes firm
side pressure to get full aileron in flight when the flaperons are down.
So just drilling the new hole might produce a tendency to move the
control stick forward or aft a bit when I apply aileron. That's my
excuse for not doing it yet anyway ;)
I would not be too concerned about perfection here. A half inch is not
very significant. I should take my own advice eh? Might be annoying when
you extend the flaps if the stick moves sideways but you probably
wouldn't notice after awhile. It is important to make sure the teleflex
cable is tensioned when you rig them though. ie don't rig them with the
teleflex holding the flaperons up or you will not get anywhere near full
extension in flight.
Ken
Charlie Eubanks wrote:
[quote]Hi Ken
You are right in that there are a number of things that could contribute to
the unevenness and difficultly in getting the controls properly rigged. I
followed all the steps in the manual I thought but it still a head
scratchier. My smaller push rods and the 2" torque tubes in the fuselage are
just clecoed so I can still do some adjusting, if I can figure out what to
do next.
The other item in your message about the mixer bell crank was a BIG surprise
to me. I can find nowhere in my manual any mention of the mixer bell crank
having a uneven hole pattern or that it could be installed backwards. I
assumed it to be symmetrical. I just checked the hole pattern and you are
correct. The holes for the two smaller push rods are a 1/8" different in
distance from the hole for the 1" push rod. If this info is a factor in the
successful rigging of the controls, on which side does it go? Was there
somewhere in the Rebel files an alert posted I may have missed? I guess it
still not to late but this info may have saved a lot of time and head aches
had I have known.
Sorry I can't answer your question about the modified bell cranks effect on
the elevator. I have yet to install the elevator or rudder cables. I would
be interested in your concern however.
Thanks for the heads up on the mixer bell crank.
Charlie E. 802R
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken" <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 8:37 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Adjusting Aileron/Flaps
[quote]A few other guys have mentioned this as well Charlie.
It might be due to the aileron horns being riveted on in slightly
different positions or the horns on the torque tube riveted on in
slightly different positions. If that is the case you may have to live
with it. Markedly different length push rods on the aileron horns will
also do it.
Another thing that could do it is if the mixer bellcrank is backwards.
That bellcrank is not quite symetrical and it is easy to install it
backwards.
On a separate issue:
With your modified bellcrank, do you notice any affect on the elevator
when you go full left or right aileron. I have been hesitant to make
that mod.
Ken
Charlie Eubanks wrote:
[quote]Hello all
I have a question on flap deployment.
Thanks to Ron Shannon I now have the correct length of Teleflex cable
installed in my Rebel. After modifying the hole location from 2-3/8" to
2"
on the newer bell crank I am now able to get 4" up (16.7
and I get 15 to 18 in flight as long as I slow to about 65 knots or
less. In the zero flap position they hang down at least an inch on the
ground. I have to select reflex to get them to fare with the wing in
order to install control locks on the ground. Mostly just a matter of
installing the cable tight enough so you have the room to adjust things.
The mixer lever arm has to be tight enough in the slot that it doesn't
twist too much. If you notice the outer teleflex moving sideways it
doesn't hurt to tie wrap it to the airframe ceiling where possible but
that is very minor. With my slow cruising speed I very rarely use reflex
but they do still reflex almost an inch at the trailing edge.
There is another thing going on on my aircraft. Perhaps my 3 blade Warp
prop in inefficient or something but the more power I have on, the more
the flaperons want to deflect with the spiraling prop wash and roll the
aircraft to the left. That and P factor, and a bit of engine torque,
sometimes surprises other pilots during takeoff. It also means that I
need right aileron trim in cruise to keep the flaperon deflection
neutral. This is heresy here but I think I'd like separate flaps as long
as I could still drop the ailerons like Steve Sloan does. That would
also reduce the required stick force to get full aileron deflection and
harmonize the controls better during crosswind ops IMO.
Ken
Garry Wright wrote:
[quote]Ken,
Can you elaborate a bit on the last paragraph on being sure the teleflex
cable is tensioned. I don't get full extension in flight and it is a
common complaint of rebel drivers - not that affects its flight that
much. I get full extension until the flaperons are wind loaded then
probably less than half.
Garry
Ken wrote:
[quote]Charlie
The archives has info on the mixer but sounds like Jeff has answered
that. I would not have remembered which way it goes but I do remember
working out the geometry at the time.
My curiosity about modifying the forward bellcrank would only apply if
the bellcrank was not centered on the control tube. It would be offset a
bit if I just drill a new hole and don't move the bellcrank. My
elevators are very light to move and fairly sensitive but it takes firm
side pressure to get full aileron in flight when the flaperons are down.
So just drilling the new hole might produce a tendency to move the
control stick forward or aft a bit when I apply aileron. That's my
excuse for not doing it yet anyway ;)
I would not be too concerned about perfection here. A half inch is not
very significant. I should take my own advice eh? Might be annoying when
you extend the flaps if the stick moves sideways but you probably
wouldn't notice after awhile. It is important to make sure the teleflex
cable is tensioned when you rig them though. ie don't rig them with the
teleflex holding the flaperons up or you will not get anywhere near full
extension in flight.
Ken
Charlie Eubanks wrote:
[quote]Hi Ken
You are right in that there are a number of things that could contribute to
the unevenness and difficultly in getting the controls properly rigged. I
followed all the steps in the manual I thought but it still a head
scratchier. My smaller push rods and the 2" torque tubes in the fuselage are
just clecoed so I can still do some adjusting, if I can figure out what to
do next.
The other item in your message about the mixer bell crank was a BIG surprise
to me. I can find nowhere in my manual any mention of the mixer bell crank
having a uneven hole pattern or that it could be installed backwards. I
assumed it to be symmetrical. I just checked the hole pattern and you are
correct. The holes for the two smaller push rods are a 1/8" different in
distance from the hole for the 1" push rod. If this info is a factor in the
successful rigging of the controls, on which side does it go? Was there
somewhere in the Rebel files an alert posted I may have missed? I guess it
still not to late but this info may have saved a lot of time and head aches
had I have known.
Sorry I can't answer your question about the modified bell cranks effect on
the elevator. I have yet to install the elevator or rudder cables. I would
be interested in your concern however.
Thanks for the heads up on the mixer bell crank.
Charlie E. 802R
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken" <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 8:37 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Adjusting Aileron/Flaps
[quote]A few other guys have mentioned this as well Charlie.
It might be due to the aileron horns being riveted on in slightly
different positions or the horns on the torque tube riveted on in
slightly different positions. If that is the case you may have to live
with it. Markedly different length push rods on the aileron horns will
also do it.
Another thing that could do it is if the mixer bellcrank is backwards.
That bellcrank is not quite symetrical and it is easy to install it
backwards.
On a separate issue:
With your modified bellcrank, do you notice any affect on the elevator
when you go full left or right aileron. I have been hesitant to make
that mod.
Ken
Charlie Eubanks wrote:
[quote]Hello all
I have a question on flap deployment.
Thanks to Ron Shannon I now have the correct length of Teleflex cable
installed in my Rebel. After modifying the hole location from 2-3/8" to
2"
on the newer bell crank I am now able to get 4" up (16.7
-
Garry Wright
[rebel-builders] Adjusting Aileron/Flaps
Thanks Ken. I will check out these things and may make some adjustments.
I've never had a crosswind problem with mine and we do get lots of wind
around here. Probably as windy here as anywhere in Canada.
With my prop, I used to use EGT/CHT indications for leaning and
essentially tried to control fuel consumption and limit it to 7.3 gph
with limited success(O320 150 HP). It usually meant holding rpm to about
2350 at which point you can't get fast enough to use reflex effectively
on floats. With Walter's lead on fuel flow guages I installed one and
now run at my targeted fuel flow with lots of power and higher rpm
(around 2450 to as high as 2600 depending on altitude). That allows full
reflex of course and the gains inherent in that. I won't want to give up
any reflex to gain full downward deflection so my task might be tricky.
Your comment makes it sound like Steve can drop flaps and ailerons
independently - is that correct?
Garry
Ken wrote:
[quote]The bulletin with control movement specs says 15 degrees max flaperon
and I get 15 to 18 in flight as long as I slow to about 65 knots or
less. In the zero flap position they hang down at least an inch on the
ground. I have to select reflex to get them to fare with the wing in
order to install control locks on the ground. Mostly just a matter of
installing the cable tight enough so you have the room to adjust things.
The mixer lever arm has to be tight enough in the slot that it doesn't
twist too much. If you notice the outer teleflex moving sideways it
doesn't hurt to tie wrap it to the airframe ceiling where possible but
that is very minor. With my slow cruising speed I very rarely use reflex
but they do still reflex almost an inch at the trailing edge.
There is another thing going on on my aircraft. Perhaps my 3 blade Warp
prop in inefficient or something but the more power I have on, the more
the flaperons want to deflect with the spiraling prop wash and roll the
aircraft to the left. That and P factor, and a bit of engine torque,
sometimes surprises other pilots during takeoff. It also means that I
need right aileron trim in cruise to keep the flaperon deflection
neutral. This is heresy here but I think I'd like separate flaps as long
as I could still drop the ailerons like Steve Sloan does. That would
also reduce the required stick force to get full aileron deflection and
harmonize the controls better during crosswind ops IMO.
Ken
Garry Wright wrote:
[quote]Ken,
Can you elaborate a bit on the last paragraph on being sure the teleflex
cable is tensioned. I don't get full extension in flight and it is a
common complaint of rebel drivers - not that affects its flight that
much. I get full extension until the flaperons are wind loaded then
probably less than half.
Garry
Ken wrote:
[quote]Charlie
The archives has info on the mixer but sounds like Jeff has answered
that. I would not have remembered which way it goes but I do remember
working out the geometry at the time.
My curiosity about modifying the forward bellcrank would only apply if
the bellcrank was not centered on the control tube. It would be offset a
bit if I just drill a new hole and don't move the bellcrank. My
elevators are very light to move and fairly sensitive but it takes firm
side pressure to get full aileron in flight when the flaperons are down.
So just drilling the new hole might produce a tendency to move the
control stick forward or aft a bit when I apply aileron. That's my
excuse for not doing it yet anyway ;)
I would not be too concerned about perfection here. A half inch is not
very significant. I should take my own advice eh? Might be annoying when
you extend the flaps if the stick moves sideways but you probably
wouldn't notice after awhile. It is important to make sure the teleflex
cable is tensioned when you rig them though. ie don't rig them with the
teleflex holding the flaperons up or you will not get anywhere near full
extension in flight.
Ken
Charlie Eubanks wrote:
[quote]Hi Ken
You are right in that there are a number of things that could contribute to
the unevenness and difficultly in getting the controls properly rigged. I
followed all the steps in the manual I thought but it still a head
scratchier. My smaller push rods and the 2" torque tubes in the fuselage are
just clecoed so I can still do some adjusting, if I can figure out what to
do next.
The other item in your message about the mixer bell crank was a BIG surprise
to me. I can find nowhere in my manual any mention of the mixer bell crank
having a uneven hole pattern or that it could be installed backwards. I
assumed it to be symmetrical. I just checked the hole pattern and you are
correct. The holes for the two smaller push rods are a 1/8" different in
distance from the hole for the 1" push rod. If this info is a factor in the
successful rigging of the controls, on which side does it go? Was there
somewhere in the Rebel files an alert posted I may have missed? I guess it
still not to late but this info may have saved a lot of time and head aches
had I have known.
Sorry I can't answer your question about the modified bell cranks effect on
the elevator. I have yet to install the elevator or rudder cables. I would
be interested in your concern however.
Thanks for the heads up on the mixer bell crank.
Charlie E. 802R
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken" <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 8:37 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Adjusting Aileron/Flaps
[quote]A few other guys have mentioned this as well Charlie.
It might be due to the aileron horns being riveted on in slightly
different positions or the horns on the torque tube riveted on in
slightly different positions. If that is the case you may have to live
with it. Markedly different length push rods on the aileron horns will
also do it.
Another thing that could do it is if the mixer bellcrank is backwards.
That bellcrank is not quite symetrical and it is easy to install it
backwards.
On a separate issue:
With your modified bellcrank, do you notice any affect on the elevator
when you go full left or right aileron. I have been hesitant to make
that mod.
Ken
Charlie Eubanks wrote:
[quote]Hello all
I have a question on flap deployment.
Thanks to Ron Shannon I now have the correct length of Teleflex cable
installed in my Rebel. After modifying the hole location from 2-3/8" to
2"
on the newer bell crank I am now able to get 4" up (16.7
I've never had a crosswind problem with mine and we do get lots of wind
around here. Probably as windy here as anywhere in Canada.
With my prop, I used to use EGT/CHT indications for leaning and
essentially tried to control fuel consumption and limit it to 7.3 gph
with limited success(O320 150 HP). It usually meant holding rpm to about
2350 at which point you can't get fast enough to use reflex effectively
on floats. With Walter's lead on fuel flow guages I installed one and
now run at my targeted fuel flow with lots of power and higher rpm
(around 2450 to as high as 2600 depending on altitude). That allows full
reflex of course and the gains inherent in that. I won't want to give up
any reflex to gain full downward deflection so my task might be tricky.
Your comment makes it sound like Steve can drop flaps and ailerons
independently - is that correct?
Garry
Ken wrote:
[quote]The bulletin with control movement specs says 15 degrees max flaperon
and I get 15 to 18 in flight as long as I slow to about 65 knots or
less. In the zero flap position they hang down at least an inch on the
ground. I have to select reflex to get them to fare with the wing in
order to install control locks on the ground. Mostly just a matter of
installing the cable tight enough so you have the room to adjust things.
The mixer lever arm has to be tight enough in the slot that it doesn't
twist too much. If you notice the outer teleflex moving sideways it
doesn't hurt to tie wrap it to the airframe ceiling where possible but
that is very minor. With my slow cruising speed I very rarely use reflex
but they do still reflex almost an inch at the trailing edge.
There is another thing going on on my aircraft. Perhaps my 3 blade Warp
prop in inefficient or something but the more power I have on, the more
the flaperons want to deflect with the spiraling prop wash and roll the
aircraft to the left. That and P factor, and a bit of engine torque,
sometimes surprises other pilots during takeoff. It also means that I
need right aileron trim in cruise to keep the flaperon deflection
neutral. This is heresy here but I think I'd like separate flaps as long
as I could still drop the ailerons like Steve Sloan does. That would
also reduce the required stick force to get full aileron deflection and
harmonize the controls better during crosswind ops IMO.
Ken
Garry Wright wrote:
[quote]Ken,
Can you elaborate a bit on the last paragraph on being sure the teleflex
cable is tensioned. I don't get full extension in flight and it is a
common complaint of rebel drivers - not that affects its flight that
much. I get full extension until the flaperons are wind loaded then
probably less than half.
Garry
Ken wrote:
[quote]Charlie
The archives has info on the mixer but sounds like Jeff has answered
that. I would not have remembered which way it goes but I do remember
working out the geometry at the time.
My curiosity about modifying the forward bellcrank would only apply if
the bellcrank was not centered on the control tube. It would be offset a
bit if I just drill a new hole and don't move the bellcrank. My
elevators are very light to move and fairly sensitive but it takes firm
side pressure to get full aileron in flight when the flaperons are down.
So just drilling the new hole might produce a tendency to move the
control stick forward or aft a bit when I apply aileron. That's my
excuse for not doing it yet anyway ;)
I would not be too concerned about perfection here. A half inch is not
very significant. I should take my own advice eh? Might be annoying when
you extend the flaps if the stick moves sideways but you probably
wouldn't notice after awhile. It is important to make sure the teleflex
cable is tensioned when you rig them though. ie don't rig them with the
teleflex holding the flaperons up or you will not get anywhere near full
extension in flight.
Ken
Charlie Eubanks wrote:
[quote]Hi Ken
You are right in that there are a number of things that could contribute to
the unevenness and difficultly in getting the controls properly rigged. I
followed all the steps in the manual I thought but it still a head
scratchier. My smaller push rods and the 2" torque tubes in the fuselage are
just clecoed so I can still do some adjusting, if I can figure out what to
do next.
The other item in your message about the mixer bell crank was a BIG surprise
to me. I can find nowhere in my manual any mention of the mixer bell crank
having a uneven hole pattern or that it could be installed backwards. I
assumed it to be symmetrical. I just checked the hole pattern and you are
correct. The holes for the two smaller push rods are a 1/8" different in
distance from the hole for the 1" push rod. If this info is a factor in the
successful rigging of the controls, on which side does it go? Was there
somewhere in the Rebel files an alert posted I may have missed? I guess it
still not to late but this info may have saved a lot of time and head aches
had I have known.
Sorry I can't answer your question about the modified bell cranks effect on
the elevator. I have yet to install the elevator or rudder cables. I would
be interested in your concern however.
Thanks for the heads up on the mixer bell crank.
Charlie E. 802R
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken" <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 8:37 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Adjusting Aileron/Flaps
[quote]A few other guys have mentioned this as well Charlie.
It might be due to the aileron horns being riveted on in slightly
different positions or the horns on the torque tube riveted on in
slightly different positions. If that is the case you may have to live
with it. Markedly different length push rods on the aileron horns will
also do it.
Another thing that could do it is if the mixer bellcrank is backwards.
That bellcrank is not quite symetrical and it is easy to install it
backwards.
On a separate issue:
With your modified bellcrank, do you notice any affect on the elevator
when you go full left or right aileron. I have been hesitant to make
that mod.
Ken
Charlie Eubanks wrote:
[quote]Hello all
I have a question on flap deployment.
Thanks to Ron Shannon I now have the correct length of Teleflex cable
installed in my Rebel. After modifying the hole location from 2-3/8" to
2"
on the newer bell crank I am now able to get 4" up (16.7
-
Ken
[rebel-builders] Adjusting Aileron/Flaps
Yes Steve can drop flaps and ailerons independently.
I might be seeing a similar power thing as you in that I'm likely
turning the Warp slower than it was really designed for. But it is nice
and quiet.
Ken
Garry Wright wrote:
[quote]Thanks Ken. I will check out these things and may make some adjustments.
I've never had a crosswind problem with mine and we do get lots of wind
around here. Probably as windy here as anywhere in Canada.
With my prop, I used to use EGT/CHT indications for leaning and
essentially tried to control fuel consumption and limit it to 7.3 gph
with limited success(O320 150 HP). It usually meant holding rpm to about
2350 at which point you can't get fast enough to use reflex effectively
on floats. With Walter's lead on fuel flow guages I installed one and
now run at my targeted fuel flow with lots of power and higher rpm
(around 2450 to as high as 2600 depending on altitude). That allows full
reflex of course and the gains inherent in that. I won't want to give up
any reflex to gain full downward deflection so my task might be tricky.
Your comment makes it sound like Steve can drop flaps and ailerons
independently - is that correct?
Garry
Ken wrote:
[quote]The bulletin with control movement specs says 15 degrees max flaperon
and I get 15 to 18 in flight as long as I slow to about 65 knots or
less. In the zero flap position they hang down at least an inch on the
ground. I have to select reflex to get them to fare with the wing in
order to install control locks on the ground. Mostly just a matter of
installing the cable tight enough so you have the room to adjust things.
The mixer lever arm has to be tight enough in the slot that it doesn't
twist too much. If you notice the outer teleflex moving sideways it
doesn't hurt to tie wrap it to the airframe ceiling where possible but
that is very minor. With my slow cruising speed I very rarely use reflex
but they do still reflex almost an inch at the trailing edge.
There is another thing going on on my aircraft. Perhaps my 3 blade Warp
prop in inefficient or something but the more power I have on, the more
the flaperons want to deflect with the spiraling prop wash and roll the
aircraft to the left. That and P factor, and a bit of engine torque,
sometimes surprises other pilots during takeoff. It also means that I
need right aileron trim in cruise to keep the flaperon deflection
neutral. This is heresy here but I think I'd like separate flaps as long
as I could still drop the ailerons like Steve Sloan does. That would
also reduce the required stick force to get full aileron deflection and
harmonize the controls better during crosswind ops IMO.
Ken
Garry Wright wrote:
[quote]Ken,
Can you elaborate a bit on the last paragraph on being sure the teleflex
cable is tensioned. I don't get full extension in flight and it is a
common complaint of rebel drivers - not that affects its flight that
much. I get full extension until the flaperons are wind loaded then
probably less than half.
Garry
Ken wrote:
[quote]Charlie
The archives has info on the mixer but sounds like Jeff has answered
that. I would not have remembered which way it goes but I do remember
working out the geometry at the time.
My curiosity about modifying the forward bellcrank would only apply if
the bellcrank was not centered on the control tube. It would be offset a
bit if I just drill a new hole and don't move the bellcrank. My
elevators are very light to move and fairly sensitive but it takes firm
side pressure to get full aileron in flight when the flaperons are down.
So just drilling the new hole might produce a tendency to move the
control stick forward or aft a bit when I apply aileron. That's my
excuse for not doing it yet anyway ;)
I would not be too concerned about perfection here. A half inch is not
very significant. I should take my own advice eh? Might be annoying when
you extend the flaps if the stick moves sideways but you probably
wouldn't notice after awhile. It is important to make sure the teleflex
cable is tensioned when you rig them though. ie don't rig them with the
teleflex holding the flaperons up or you will not get anywhere near full
extension in flight.
Ken
Charlie Eubanks wrote:
[quote]Hi Ken
You are right in that there are a number of things that could contribute to
the unevenness and difficultly in getting the controls properly rigged. I
followed all the steps in the manual I thought but it still a head
scratchier. My smaller push rods and the 2" torque tubes in the fuselage are
just clecoed so I can still do some adjusting, if I can figure out what to
do next.
The other item in your message about the mixer bell crank was a BIG surprise
to me. I can find nowhere in my manual any mention of the mixer bell crank
having a uneven hole pattern or that it could be installed backwards. I
assumed it to be symmetrical. I just checked the hole pattern and you are
correct. The holes for the two smaller push rods are a 1/8" different in
distance from the hole for the 1" push rod. If this info is a factor in the
successful rigging of the controls, on which side does it go? Was there
somewhere in the Rebel files an alert posted I may have missed? I guess it
still not to late but this info may have saved a lot of time and head aches
had I have known.
Sorry I can't answer your question about the modified bell cranks effect on
the elevator. I have yet to install the elevator or rudder cables. I would
be interested in your concern however.
Thanks for the heads up on the mixer bell crank.
Charlie E. 802R
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken" <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 8:37 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Adjusting Aileron/Flaps
[quote]A few other guys have mentioned this as well Charlie.
It might be due to the aileron horns being riveted on in slightly
different positions or the horns on the torque tube riveted on in
slightly different positions. If that is the case you may have to live
with it. Markedly different length push rods on the aileron horns will
also do it.
Another thing that could do it is if the mixer bellcrank is backwards.
That bellcrank is not quite symetrical and it is easy to install it
backwards.
On a separate issue:
With your modified bellcrank, do you notice any affect on the elevator
when you go full left or right aileron. I have been hesitant to make
that mod.
Ken
Charlie Eubanks wrote:
[quote]Hello all
I have a question on flap deployment.
Thanks to Ron Shannon I now have the correct length of Teleflex cable
installed in my Rebel. After modifying the hole location from 2-3/8" to
2"
on the newer bell crank I am now able to get 4" up (16.7
I might be seeing a similar power thing as you in that I'm likely
turning the Warp slower than it was really designed for. But it is nice
and quiet.
Ken
Garry Wright wrote:
[quote]Thanks Ken. I will check out these things and may make some adjustments.
I've never had a crosswind problem with mine and we do get lots of wind
around here. Probably as windy here as anywhere in Canada.
With my prop, I used to use EGT/CHT indications for leaning and
essentially tried to control fuel consumption and limit it to 7.3 gph
with limited success(O320 150 HP). It usually meant holding rpm to about
2350 at which point you can't get fast enough to use reflex effectively
on floats. With Walter's lead on fuel flow guages I installed one and
now run at my targeted fuel flow with lots of power and higher rpm
(around 2450 to as high as 2600 depending on altitude). That allows full
reflex of course and the gains inherent in that. I won't want to give up
any reflex to gain full downward deflection so my task might be tricky.
Your comment makes it sound like Steve can drop flaps and ailerons
independently - is that correct?
Garry
Ken wrote:
[quote]The bulletin with control movement specs says 15 degrees max flaperon
and I get 15 to 18 in flight as long as I slow to about 65 knots or
less. In the zero flap position they hang down at least an inch on the
ground. I have to select reflex to get them to fare with the wing in
order to install control locks on the ground. Mostly just a matter of
installing the cable tight enough so you have the room to adjust things.
The mixer lever arm has to be tight enough in the slot that it doesn't
twist too much. If you notice the outer teleflex moving sideways it
doesn't hurt to tie wrap it to the airframe ceiling where possible but
that is very minor. With my slow cruising speed I very rarely use reflex
but they do still reflex almost an inch at the trailing edge.
There is another thing going on on my aircraft. Perhaps my 3 blade Warp
prop in inefficient or something but the more power I have on, the more
the flaperons want to deflect with the spiraling prop wash and roll the
aircraft to the left. That and P factor, and a bit of engine torque,
sometimes surprises other pilots during takeoff. It also means that I
need right aileron trim in cruise to keep the flaperon deflection
neutral. This is heresy here but I think I'd like separate flaps as long
as I could still drop the ailerons like Steve Sloan does. That would
also reduce the required stick force to get full aileron deflection and
harmonize the controls better during crosswind ops IMO.
Ken
Garry Wright wrote:
[quote]Ken,
Can you elaborate a bit on the last paragraph on being sure the teleflex
cable is tensioned. I don't get full extension in flight and it is a
common complaint of rebel drivers - not that affects its flight that
much. I get full extension until the flaperons are wind loaded then
probably less than half.
Garry
Ken wrote:
[quote]Charlie
The archives has info on the mixer but sounds like Jeff has answered
that. I would not have remembered which way it goes but I do remember
working out the geometry at the time.
My curiosity about modifying the forward bellcrank would only apply if
the bellcrank was not centered on the control tube. It would be offset a
bit if I just drill a new hole and don't move the bellcrank. My
elevators are very light to move and fairly sensitive but it takes firm
side pressure to get full aileron in flight when the flaperons are down.
So just drilling the new hole might produce a tendency to move the
control stick forward or aft a bit when I apply aileron. That's my
excuse for not doing it yet anyway ;)
I would not be too concerned about perfection here. A half inch is not
very significant. I should take my own advice eh? Might be annoying when
you extend the flaps if the stick moves sideways but you probably
wouldn't notice after awhile. It is important to make sure the teleflex
cable is tensioned when you rig them though. ie don't rig them with the
teleflex holding the flaperons up or you will not get anywhere near full
extension in flight.
Ken
Charlie Eubanks wrote:
[quote]Hi Ken
You are right in that there are a number of things that could contribute to
the unevenness and difficultly in getting the controls properly rigged. I
followed all the steps in the manual I thought but it still a head
scratchier. My smaller push rods and the 2" torque tubes in the fuselage are
just clecoed so I can still do some adjusting, if I can figure out what to
do next.
The other item in your message about the mixer bell crank was a BIG surprise
to me. I can find nowhere in my manual any mention of the mixer bell crank
having a uneven hole pattern or that it could be installed backwards. I
assumed it to be symmetrical. I just checked the hole pattern and you are
correct. The holes for the two smaller push rods are a 1/8" different in
distance from the hole for the 1" push rod. If this info is a factor in the
successful rigging of the controls, on which side does it go? Was there
somewhere in the Rebel files an alert posted I may have missed? I guess it
still not to late but this info may have saved a lot of time and head aches
had I have known.
Sorry I can't answer your question about the modified bell cranks effect on
the elevator. I have yet to install the elevator or rudder cables. I would
be interested in your concern however.
Thanks for the heads up on the mixer bell crank.
Charlie E. 802R
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken" <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 8:37 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Adjusting Aileron/Flaps
[quote]A few other guys have mentioned this as well Charlie.
It might be due to the aileron horns being riveted on in slightly
different positions or the horns on the torque tube riveted on in
slightly different positions. If that is the case you may have to live
with it. Markedly different length push rods on the aileron horns will
also do it.
Another thing that could do it is if the mixer bellcrank is backwards.
That bellcrank is not quite symetrical and it is easy to install it
backwards.
On a separate issue:
With your modified bellcrank, do you notice any affect on the elevator
when you go full left or right aileron. I have been hesitant to make
that mod.
Ken
Charlie Eubanks wrote:
[quote]Hello all
I have a question on flap deployment.
Thanks to Ron Shannon I now have the correct length of Teleflex cable
installed in my Rebel. After modifying the hole location from 2-3/8" to
2"
on the newer bell crank I am now able to get 4" up (16.7
-
WALTER KLATT
[rebel-builders] Adjusting Aileron/Flaps
I can go surprisingly slow with my reflex, down to near 80 mph if I am not too heavy. I often do slow cruises around the lake when taking people for rides, between 80 and 90 mph, and burn as low as 5 US gph. At some point, though, as I slow down, the nose starts to rise, and I have to put it into neutral. I immediately lose a few mph then, and have to increase throttle to maintain speed. It may be that the VGs help here, too. Can't remember, though, how slow I could go in reflex before I had them.
Again, I have no problems in crosswinds now that I have the VGs. They also really help with float ops, as do the full span flaperons. Float angle is important too, and take off technique may have to vary a bit depending on weight and hp.
Ken, don't know if you still lay over in Vancouver sometimes. But you should come for a flight with me. My plane is quite different than yours, and it might interesting to compare as you continue to refine yours.
Walter
----- Original Message -----
From: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
Date: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 9:50 am
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Adjusting Aileron/Flaps
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Again, I have no problems in crosswinds now that I have the VGs. They also really help with float ops, as do the full span flaperons. Float angle is important too, and take off technique may have to vary a bit depending on weight and hp.
Ken, don't know if you still lay over in Vancouver sometimes. But you should come for a flight with me. My plane is quite different than yours, and it might interesting to compare as you continue to refine yours.
Walter
----- Original Message -----
From: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
Date: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 9:50 am
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Adjusting Aileron/Flaps
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
(16.7Yes Steve can drop flaps and ailerons independently.
I might be seeing a similar power thing as you in that I'm
likely
turning the Warp slower than it was really designed for.
But it is nice
and quiet.
Ken
Garry Wright wrote:adjustments.>Thanks Ken. I will check out these things and may make somelots of windI've never had a crosswind problem with mine and we do getandaround here. Probably as windy here as anywhere in Canada.
With my prop, I used to use EGT/CHT indications for leaning7.3 gphessentially tried to control fuel consumption and limit it torpm to aboutwith limited success(O320 150 HP). It usually meant holdingeffectively2350 at which point you can't get fast enough to use reflexone andon floats. With Walter's lead on fuel flow guages I installedrpmnow run at my targeted fuel flow with lots of power and higherallows full(around 2450 to as high as 2600 depending on altitude). Thatto give upreflex of course and the gains inherent in that. I won't wantbe tricky.any reflex to gain full downward deflection so my task mightaileronsYour comment makes it sound like Steve can drop flaps andflaperonindependently - is that correct?
Garry
Ken wrote:The bulletin with control movement specs says 15 degrees maxknots orand I get 15 to 18 in flight as long as I slow to about 65inch on theless. In the zero flap position they hang down at least anwing inground. I have to select reflex to get them to fare with thematter oforder to install control locks on the ground. Mostly just aadjust things.installing the cable tight enough so you have the room toit doesn'tThe mixer lever arm has to be tight enough in the slot thatsideways ittwist too much. If you notice the outer teleflex movingpossible butdoesn't hurt to tie wrap it to the airframe ceiling whereuse reflexthat is very minor. With my slow cruising speed I very rarelyblade Warpbut they do still reflex almost an inch at the trailing edge.
There is another thing going on on my aircraft. Perhaps my 3on, the moreprop in inefficient or something but the more power I haveand roll thethe flaperons want to deflect with the spiraling prop washtorque,aircraft to the left. That and P factor, and a bit of enginemeans that Isometimes surprises other pilots during takeoff. It alsodeflectionneed right aileron trim in cruise to keep the flaperonflaps as longneutral. This is heresy here but I think I'd like separateThat wouldas I could still drop the ailerons like Steve Sloan does.deflection andalso reduce the required stick force to get full aileronthe teleflexharmonize the controls better during crosswind ops IMO.
Ken
Garry Wright wrote:
it is aflight thatloaded thenanswereddo rememberonly apply ifwould be offset abellcrank. Myit takes firmflaperons are down.move theThat's myinch is notannoying whenprobablythe teleflexthem with theanywhere near fullcould contribute toproperly rigged. Istill a headin the fuselage arefigure out what towas a BIG surprisemixer bell crankbackwards. Ipattern and you are1/8" different inis a factor in thego? Was theremissed? I guess ittime and head achescranks effect oncables. I wouldslightly>>>>>> different positions or the horns on the torque
tube riveted on inhave to liveaileron horns willis backwards.install itthe elevatorhesitant to makeTeleflex cablefrom 2-3/8" to
-
Garry Wright
[rebel-builders] Adjusting Aileron/Flaps
Thanks Ken. That must be an interesting design Steve has.
I find that with this wing, getting altitude loss is not much of a
problem - unless you get too much : ). Getting slower - if more flap
will do that - is a good and worthy objective.
Garry
Ken wrote:
[quote]Yes Steve can drop flaps and ailerons independently.
I might be seeing a similar power thing as you in that I'm likely
turning the Warp slower than it was really designed for. But it is nice
and quiet.
Ken
Garry Wright wrote:
[quote]Thanks Ken. I will check out these things and may make some adjustments.
I've never had a crosswind problem with mine and we do get lots of wind
around here. Probably as windy here as anywhere in Canada.
With my prop, I used to use EGT/CHT indications for leaning and
essentially tried to control fuel consumption and limit it to 7.3 gph
with limited success(O320 150 HP). It usually meant holding rpm to about
2350 at which point you can't get fast enough to use reflex effectively
on floats. With Walter's lead on fuel flow guages I installed one and
now run at my targeted fuel flow with lots of power and higher rpm
(around 2450 to as high as 2600 depending on altitude). That allows full
reflex of course and the gains inherent in that. I won't want to give up
any reflex to gain full downward deflection so my task might be tricky.
Your comment makes it sound like Steve can drop flaps and ailerons
independently - is that correct?
Garry
Ken wrote:
[quote]The bulletin with control movement specs says 15 degrees max flaperon
and I get 15 to 18 in flight as long as I slow to about 65 knots or
less. In the zero flap position they hang down at least an inch on the
ground. I have to select reflex to get them to fare with the wing in
order to install control locks on the ground. Mostly just a matter of
installing the cable tight enough so you have the room to adjust things.
The mixer lever arm has to be tight enough in the slot that it doesn't
twist too much. If you notice the outer teleflex moving sideways it
doesn't hurt to tie wrap it to the airframe ceiling where possible but
that is very minor. With my slow cruising speed I very rarely use reflex
but they do still reflex almost an inch at the trailing edge.
There is another thing going on on my aircraft. Perhaps my 3 blade Warp
prop in inefficient or something but the more power I have on, the more
the flaperons want to deflect with the spiraling prop wash and roll the
aircraft to the left. That and P factor, and a bit of engine torque,
sometimes surprises other pilots during takeoff. It also means that I
need right aileron trim in cruise to keep the flaperon deflection
neutral. This is heresy here but I think I'd like separate flaps as long
as I could still drop the ailerons like Steve Sloan does. That would
also reduce the required stick force to get full aileron deflection and
harmonize the controls better during crosswind ops IMO.
Ken
Garry Wright wrote:
[quote]Ken,
Can you elaborate a bit on the last paragraph on being sure the teleflex
cable is tensioned. I don't get full extension in flight and it is a
common complaint of rebel drivers - not that affects its flight that
much. I get full extension until the flaperons are wind loaded then
probably less than half.
Garry
Ken wrote:
[quote]Charlie
The archives has info on the mixer but sounds like Jeff has answered
that. I would not have remembered which way it goes but I do remember
working out the geometry at the time.
My curiosity about modifying the forward bellcrank would only apply if
the bellcrank was not centered on the control tube. It would be offset a
bit if I just drill a new hole and don't move the bellcrank. My
elevators are very light to move and fairly sensitive but it takes firm
side pressure to get full aileron in flight when the flaperons are down.
So just drilling the new hole might produce a tendency to move the
control stick forward or aft a bit when I apply aileron. That's my
excuse for not doing it yet anyway ;)
I would not be too concerned about perfection here. A half inch is not
very significant. I should take my own advice eh? Might be annoying when
you extend the flaps if the stick moves sideways but you probably
wouldn't notice after awhile. It is important to make sure the teleflex
cable is tensioned when you rig them though. ie don't rig them with the
teleflex holding the flaperons up or you will not get anywhere near full
extension in flight.
Ken
Charlie Eubanks wrote:
[quote]Hi Ken
You are right in that there are a number of things that could contribute to
the unevenness and difficultly in getting the controls properly rigged. I
followed all the steps in the manual I thought but it still a head
scratchier. My smaller push rods and the 2" torque tubes in the fuselage are
just clecoed so I can still do some adjusting, if I can figure out what to
do next.
The other item in your message about the mixer bell crank was a BIG surprise
to me. I can find nowhere in my manual any mention of the mixer bell crank
having a uneven hole pattern or that it could be installed backwards. I
assumed it to be symmetrical. I just checked the hole pattern and you are
correct. The holes for the two smaller push rods are a 1/8" different in
distance from the hole for the 1" push rod. If this info is a factor in the
successful rigging of the controls, on which side does it go? Was there
somewhere in the Rebel files an alert posted I may have missed? I guess it
still not to late but this info may have saved a lot of time and head aches
had I have known.
Sorry I can't answer your question about the modified bell cranks effect on
the elevator. I have yet to install the elevator or rudder cables. I would
be interested in your concern however.
Thanks for the heads up on the mixer bell crank.
Charlie E. 802R
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken" <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 8:37 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Adjusting Aileron/Flaps
[quote]A few other guys have mentioned this as well Charlie.
It might be due to the aileron horns being riveted on in slightly
different positions or the horns on the torque tube riveted on in
slightly different positions. If that is the case you may have to live
with it. Markedly different length push rods on the aileron horns will
also do it.
Another thing that could do it is if the mixer bellcrank is backwards.
That bellcrank is not quite symetrical and it is easy to install it
backwards.
On a separate issue:
With your modified bellcrank, do you notice any affect on the elevator
when you go full left or right aileron. I have been hesitant to make
that mod.
Ken
Charlie Eubanks wrote:
[quote]Hello all
I have a question on flap deployment.
Thanks to Ron Shannon I now have the correct length of Teleflex cable
installed in my Rebel. After modifying the hole location from 2-3/8" to
2"
on the newer bell crank I am now able to get 4" up (16.7
I find that with this wing, getting altitude loss is not much of a
problem - unless you get too much : ). Getting slower - if more flap
will do that - is a good and worthy objective.
Garry
Ken wrote:
[quote]Yes Steve can drop flaps and ailerons independently.
I might be seeing a similar power thing as you in that I'm likely
turning the Warp slower than it was really designed for. But it is nice
and quiet.
Ken
Garry Wright wrote:
[quote]Thanks Ken. I will check out these things and may make some adjustments.
I've never had a crosswind problem with mine and we do get lots of wind
around here. Probably as windy here as anywhere in Canada.
With my prop, I used to use EGT/CHT indications for leaning and
essentially tried to control fuel consumption and limit it to 7.3 gph
with limited success(O320 150 HP). It usually meant holding rpm to about
2350 at which point you can't get fast enough to use reflex effectively
on floats. With Walter's lead on fuel flow guages I installed one and
now run at my targeted fuel flow with lots of power and higher rpm
(around 2450 to as high as 2600 depending on altitude). That allows full
reflex of course and the gains inherent in that. I won't want to give up
any reflex to gain full downward deflection so my task might be tricky.
Your comment makes it sound like Steve can drop flaps and ailerons
independently - is that correct?
Garry
Ken wrote:
[quote]The bulletin with control movement specs says 15 degrees max flaperon
and I get 15 to 18 in flight as long as I slow to about 65 knots or
less. In the zero flap position they hang down at least an inch on the
ground. I have to select reflex to get them to fare with the wing in
order to install control locks on the ground. Mostly just a matter of
installing the cable tight enough so you have the room to adjust things.
The mixer lever arm has to be tight enough in the slot that it doesn't
twist too much. If you notice the outer teleflex moving sideways it
doesn't hurt to tie wrap it to the airframe ceiling where possible but
that is very minor. With my slow cruising speed I very rarely use reflex
but they do still reflex almost an inch at the trailing edge.
There is another thing going on on my aircraft. Perhaps my 3 blade Warp
prop in inefficient or something but the more power I have on, the more
the flaperons want to deflect with the spiraling prop wash and roll the
aircraft to the left. That and P factor, and a bit of engine torque,
sometimes surprises other pilots during takeoff. It also means that I
need right aileron trim in cruise to keep the flaperon deflection
neutral. This is heresy here but I think I'd like separate flaps as long
as I could still drop the ailerons like Steve Sloan does. That would
also reduce the required stick force to get full aileron deflection and
harmonize the controls better during crosswind ops IMO.
Ken
Garry Wright wrote:
[quote]Ken,
Can you elaborate a bit on the last paragraph on being sure the teleflex
cable is tensioned. I don't get full extension in flight and it is a
common complaint of rebel drivers - not that affects its flight that
much. I get full extension until the flaperons are wind loaded then
probably less than half.
Garry
Ken wrote:
[quote]Charlie
The archives has info on the mixer but sounds like Jeff has answered
that. I would not have remembered which way it goes but I do remember
working out the geometry at the time.
My curiosity about modifying the forward bellcrank would only apply if
the bellcrank was not centered on the control tube. It would be offset a
bit if I just drill a new hole and don't move the bellcrank. My
elevators are very light to move and fairly sensitive but it takes firm
side pressure to get full aileron in flight when the flaperons are down.
So just drilling the new hole might produce a tendency to move the
control stick forward or aft a bit when I apply aileron. That's my
excuse for not doing it yet anyway ;)
I would not be too concerned about perfection here. A half inch is not
very significant. I should take my own advice eh? Might be annoying when
you extend the flaps if the stick moves sideways but you probably
wouldn't notice after awhile. It is important to make sure the teleflex
cable is tensioned when you rig them though. ie don't rig them with the
teleflex holding the flaperons up or you will not get anywhere near full
extension in flight.
Ken
Charlie Eubanks wrote:
[quote]Hi Ken
You are right in that there are a number of things that could contribute to
the unevenness and difficultly in getting the controls properly rigged. I
followed all the steps in the manual I thought but it still a head
scratchier. My smaller push rods and the 2" torque tubes in the fuselage are
just clecoed so I can still do some adjusting, if I can figure out what to
do next.
The other item in your message about the mixer bell crank was a BIG surprise
to me. I can find nowhere in my manual any mention of the mixer bell crank
having a uneven hole pattern or that it could be installed backwards. I
assumed it to be symmetrical. I just checked the hole pattern and you are
correct. The holes for the two smaller push rods are a 1/8" different in
distance from the hole for the 1" push rod. If this info is a factor in the
successful rigging of the controls, on which side does it go? Was there
somewhere in the Rebel files an alert posted I may have missed? I guess it
still not to late but this info may have saved a lot of time and head aches
had I have known.
Sorry I can't answer your question about the modified bell cranks effect on
the elevator. I have yet to install the elevator or rudder cables. I would
be interested in your concern however.
Thanks for the heads up on the mixer bell crank.
Charlie E. 802R
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken" <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 8:37 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Adjusting Aileron/Flaps
[quote]A few other guys have mentioned this as well Charlie.
It might be due to the aileron horns being riveted on in slightly
different positions or the horns on the torque tube riveted on in
slightly different positions. If that is the case you may have to live
with it. Markedly different length push rods on the aileron horns will
also do it.
Another thing that could do it is if the mixer bellcrank is backwards.
That bellcrank is not quite symetrical and it is easy to install it
backwards.
On a separate issue:
With your modified bellcrank, do you notice any affect on the elevator
when you go full left or right aileron. I have been hesitant to make
that mod.
Ken
Charlie Eubanks wrote:
[quote]Hello all
I have a question on flap deployment.
Thanks to Ron Shannon I now have the correct length of Teleflex cable
installed in my Rebel. After modifying the hole location from 2-3/8" to
2"
on the newer bell crank I am now able to get 4" up (16.7
-
Garry Wright
[rebel-builders] Adjusting Aileron/Flaps
Yes - 80 mph CAS is about the lower limit for reflex and I think most
rebels experience that. Certainly mine and John Petersons were similar.
At higher altitudes like above 4000', 80 mph CAS requires more than 2350
rpm on an O320. At sea level, 80 mph is still a low rpm exercise.
Garry
WALTER KLATT wrote:
rebels experience that. Certainly mine and John Petersons were similar.
At higher altitudes like above 4000', 80 mph CAS requires more than 2350
rpm on an O320. At sea level, 80 mph is still a low rpm exercise.
Garry
WALTER KLATT wrote:
(16.7I can go surprisingly slow with my reflex, down to near 80 mph if I am not too heavy. I often do slow cruises around the lake when taking people for rides, between 80 and 90 mph, and burn as low as 5 US gph. At some point, though, as I slow down, the nose starts to rise, and I have to put it into neutral. I immediately lose a few mph then, and have to increase throttle to maintain speed. It may be that the VGs help here, too. Can't remember, though, how slow I could go in reflex before I had them.
Again, I have no problems in crosswinds now that I have the VGs. They also really help with float ops, as do the full span flaperons. Float angle is important too, and take off technique may have to vary a bit depending on weight and hp.
Ken, don't know if you still lay over in Vancouver sometimes. But you should come for a flight with me. My plane is quite different than yours, and it might interesting to compare as you continue to refine yours.
Walter
----- Original Message -----
From: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
Date: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 9:50 am
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Adjusting Aileron/Flaps
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Yes Steve can drop flaps and ailerons independently.
I might be seeing a similar power thing as you in that I'm
likely
turning the Warp slower than it was really designed for.
But it is nice
and quiet.
Ken
Garry Wright wrote:
adjustments.>Thanks Ken. I will check out these things and may make some
lots of windI've never had a crosswind problem with mine and we do get
andaround here. Probably as windy here as anywhere in Canada.
With my prop, I used to use EGT/CHT indications for leaning
7.3 gphessentially tried to control fuel consumption and limit it to
rpm to aboutwith limited success(O320 150 HP). It usually meant holding
effectively2350 at which point you can't get fast enough to use reflex
one andon floats. With Walter's lead on fuel flow guages I installed
rpmnow run at my targeted fuel flow with lots of power and higher
allows full(around 2450 to as high as 2600 depending on altitude). That
to give upreflex of course and the gains inherent in that. I won't want
be tricky.any reflex to gain full downward deflection so my task might
aileronsYour comment makes it sound like Steve can drop flaps and
flaperonindependently - is that correct?
Garry
Ken wrote:
knots or
inch on the
wing in
matter of
adjust things.
it doesn't
sideways it
possible but
use reflex
blade Warp
on, the more
and roll the
torque,
means that I
deflection
flaps as long
That would
deflection and
the teleflex
it is a
flight that
loaded then
answered
do remember
only apply if
would be offset a
bellcrank. My
it takes firm
flaperons are down.
move the
That's my
inch is not
annoying when
probably
the teleflex
them with the
anywhere near full
could contribute to
properly rigged. I
still a head
in the fuselage are
figure out what to
was a BIG surprise
mixer bell crank
backwards. I
pattern and you are
1/8" different in
is a factor in the
go? Was there
missed? I guess it
time and head aches
cranks effect on
cables. I would
slightly>>>>>> different positions or the horns on the torque
tube riveted on in
have to live
aileron horns will
is backwards.
install it
the elevator
hesitant to make
Teleflex cable
from 2-3/8" to
