Hi Keith !
I wouldn't worry too much about the approach speed - good
judgement is much more important ! If you pick the right aiming
spot, you will have no problem landing short.
I could safely fly approaches at 35 -40 mph with full flap in calm
conditions with my old 912 Rebel - but that is not for the faint-hearted,
and NOT recommended ! It is FAR better to approach at 65+ mph,
steeply, full flap, to come safely through any wind gradient, then
flare & land short. The speed bleeds off rapidly with the Rebel,
once the nose is raised. The small extra 'float' gives you time to get
the tail down to the right position.
My old Rebel often did that, and stopped in less than 140 ft. ....
I could cross the end of our ~3,500 ft. runway at 1,000 ft., descend,
and have to add power to touch down at the far end, where my taxiway
was.
Heavier Rebels will need more space - more inertia -, but it is still
very common to land & stop an O-320 Rebel in under 500 ft.. You
shouldn't have any worries about the length of your strip.
--
......bobp
bobp@prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.ordermygift.com
Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender
and do not necessarily reflect the views of any other entities or persons.
Any action taken as a result of the contents of this email is totally the
responsibility of the reader.
-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Wednesday 23 September 2009 12:27, Keith Leitch wrote:
[quote]Thanks for the feedback James. If your Rebel is even half as nice as your
dads it will be a nice Rebel.:)
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[rebel-builders] Rebel Landing speed
[rebel-builders] Rebel Landing speed
How long is your field, Keith? Back when I was on wheels, I used to drop into a 800 foot grass UL field with 2 people, without feeling uncomfortable. The Rebel with full flaps and a little power can land pretty slow on wheels. And that was before I had VGs. Take off was no problem at all with the 320, and was always up in less than half the runway. I even did a 600 foot field with 2 people, but that one you didn't have a lot of room for error, and you had to be ready for a go around.
Amphibs, though, is a whole different story. Minimum for me is a 1500 foot paved runway. It's the landing where you need the room.
Walter
----- Original Message -----
From: Keith Leitch <im_planecrazy@yahoo.com>
Date: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 9:07 am
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Rebel Landing speed
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
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Amphibs, though, is a whole different story. Minimum for me is a 1500 foot paved runway. It's the landing where you need the room.
Walter
----- Original Message -----
From: Keith Leitch <im_planecrazy@yahoo.com>
Date: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 9:07 am
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Rebel Landing speed
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Thanks Bob! My strip just leaves NO room for error. That is my
biggest concern and the fact that I always seem to fly heavy.
Nothing is very close and I usually carry plenty of fuel for a
round trip excursion, maybe its because I am to cheap to give
the FBO $1+ more per gallon than I pay for fuel. Besides, I
would burn up several gallons just getting to the nearest airport.
I will not even fly my O-235 powered 7AC if the winds are more
than 10MPH. I normally have a crosswind at my strip and it can
get pretty hairy if it is any windier. I am in the process of
trying to extend it a couple hundred feet but dealing with the
wetlands people is NOT easy.
Keith
--- On Wed, 9/23/09, Bob Patterson <bobp@prosumers.ca> wrote:
From: Bob Patterson <bobp@prosumers.ca>
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Rebel Landing speed
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Date: Wednesday, September 23, 2009, 10:33 AM
Hi Keith !
I wouldn't worry too much about the approach speed - good
judgement is much more important ! If you pick the right aiming
spot, you will have no problem landing short.
I could safely fly approaches at 35 -40 mph with full flap
in calm
conditions with my old 912 Rebel - but that is not for the faint-
hearted,
and NOT recommended ! It is FAR better to approach at 65+ mph,
steeply, full flap, to come safely through any wind gradient,
then
flare & land short. The speed bleeds off rapidly with the Rebel,
once the nose is raised. The small extra 'float' gives you time
to get
the tail down to the right position.
My old Rebel often did that, and stopped in less than 140
ft. ....
I could cross the end of our ~3,500 ft. runway at 1,000 ft., descend,
and have to add power to touch down at the far end, where my taxiway
was.
Heavier Rebels will need more space - more inertia -, but it
is still
very common to land & stop an O-320 Rebel in under 500 ft.. You
shouldn't have any worries about the length of your strip.
--
......bobp
bobp@prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.ordermygift.com
Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual
sender
and do not necessarily reflect the views of any other entities
or persons.
Any action taken as a result of the contents of this email is
totally the
responsibility of the reader.
-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Wednesday 23 September 2009 12:27, Keith Leitch wrote:nice as yourThanks for the feedback James. If your Rebel is even half asthe maindads it will be a nice Rebel.:) As you have probably guessed,in shortreason for my question was because of my short strip with obstacles.
Everything I had read prior to this was kudos for the Rebelson my Champstrips. As for tires, I have a set of 26" GY's here that I hadAirsteaks and Iprior to installing some AkBushwheels. They are their 26"lighter thaneventually plan to install them on the Rebel. They are muchimbalance?> You guys are welcome to stop in at any time.the GY's. Do you think the shaking you are getting may be from<james.smith@dcsol.com> wrote:Si Smith
From: james.smith@dcsol.com <james.smith@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Landing speed and Thank you toare muchTo: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Date: Tuesday, September 22, 2009, 10:33 PM
Keith,
As Dad mentioned to you, the rudder control forces on my Rebelpulleys so thatlighter than Dad's. My Rebel is running 2 guides and 2factor in theprobably has an impact. Also, I'm running a small tailwheel (not
Murphy's) and Dad is running a Scott 3200 so that is also adifference isfeel I'm sure. Whatever the specific reason is, theand Dad haddramatic and was basically the first comment that myself, Mattrudder. Iafter flying my Rebel was the difference in the feel of theGoodyears and Ihave about 1/2 dozen landings on pavement with the 26"really havethink the rudder forces are probably a little too light. Youmatter) we'reto be on your toes.
As for landing distances (and take off distances for thatDad's Rebelpretty strong believers that the limiting factor in the real short
performance of the Rebel is limited by the angle of attack.enough angle ofwith the 800 X 6 tires and spring gear just doesn't haveThe 26"attack to take full advantage of his performance potential.hours onGoodyears seem to be a good fit so far. We only have about 13through> performance. The only down side to the bigger tires somy now since the rebuild was completed so we're still working
far is that gearvibrating> once you get over about 115 MPH. It really is a niceshakes pretty good after you break groung and the gear starts
flying planewife duethough. I was hoping to bring it to Fall Colors but with myat work, Iwith our 2nd child in 2 weeks and some issues I have going onand 40 gal.just couldn't justify taking off for a couple of days.
Hope to get up your way in the next year for sure.
James
On 9/22/2009 4:13 PM, siks@ticon.net wrote to rebel-builders:
-> Hi Keith,
-> Your welcome but remember a few things there were 2 of usbefore> ours, and -> I was not familiar with the effect of the-> of fuel on board,, I had only made 3 landings at that strip
quartering crossbit slowerwind over the -> trees. I get in to my home airport quite aapproach youwith flaps and power -> but as Ken said with that kind of anshorter.> David says his strip is 1800 -> feet and we werebetter be ready to land -> when the Rebel is but it will land
stopped at a little over65 MPH andthe half way point. The last -> glance at the airspeed I sawcan getdidn't want to get much slower than
-> that at that strip and my knowledge of the strip. I hope webetter and it wastogether
-> again for a little more time in it. Hope your feelingto Si Smitha -> great weekend.
->
-> Si
-> ----- Original Message -----
-> From: "Keith Leitch" <im_planecrazy@yahoo.com>
-> To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
-> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 9:05 AM
-> Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Landing speed and Thank you"dissapointed" in the->
->
-> > Ken,
-> >
-> > Thanks for the info. I guess I was a littlespeed makes alanding -> > speed. I fly mostly out of short strips and thelooking forbig -> > difference on these short strips. I guesss I wasthey are WAYbetter slow -> > speed ability. Always wanted a Super Cub butand the rudderover priced for
-> > what you get.
-> > Si had mentioned that his sons Rebel was using pulleysto Si Smithwas
-> > much less hard.
-> >
-> > Regards,
-> > keith
-> >
-> > --- On Tue, 9/22/09, Ken <klehman@albedo.net> wrote:
-> >
-> >
-> > From: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
-> > Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Landing speed and Thank youdo have two-> > To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
-> > Date: Tuesday, September 22, 2009, 8:56 AM
-> >
-> >
-> > Hi Keith
-> >
-> > We've seen Si's plane and agree that it is a "rocket"!
-> >
-> > FWIW my rudder (and elevator) is very light to move but II've noticed-> > pulleys on each of the four cables. Without the pulleysguides which-> > that you can hear the rudder cables moving through thestop I'llmust
-> > add some friction.
-> >
-> > I normally approach at 60 to 65 knots. For a very shorthave somecome -> > back as low as 50 over the threshold as long as Icaution (as youpower on and
-> > flaps but that would NOT be a recommended thing. Thepower curve,-> > will discover) is that when you get this wing behind thekeep ait -> > will just sink instead of flaring. I generally like todescending.> Even in -> > ground effect, there is often only alittle -> > power on until I'm certain I've flared and am not
second or two between awould notlevel -> > attitude and the 3 point attitude with power off. Iwith thislike to -> > experience a power loss if below about 65 knotsoff you almostairplane. No -> > problem above 65 knots though. With powerto keep thehave to -> > consciously push it down through the last 50 feetAnyway there'sspeed from
-> > decaying. Weight affects all of this by a few knots.ride in hisone -> > opinion for you. No doubt there will be others ;)
-> >
-> > Ken
-> > (500+ Rebel landings so far...)
-> >
-> > Keith Leitch wrote:
-> >> First of...a big thank you to Si Smith for giving me aColors Tour-> >> very nice looking Rebel. We recently attended the FallRebel for ain -> >> Northern MN and he arranged for me to hop aboard hismy first-> >> short blast. And Blast is exactly what it was. This wasthe sticktime -> >> in a Rebel and I was very impressed. He let me takethe stick.for a -> >> bit and I was very impressd with the light feel ofit the RebelI flew -> >> my O-235 powered 7AC in the tour and compared toChamp. Is thisfeels -> >> like a sports car as far as the stick goes. I did notice
though that -> >> the rudders were MUCH harder than on mythe stick andtypical? I am -> >> not saying it was bad....just seems likeneeded tothe rudder -> >> pedals are at very opposite extremes of forceclimb like amove them. I -> >> really liked the climb also. Seemed toquestion....What> speeds are mostrocket compared -> >> to my 127 and Champ. Now to my mainwe seemed-> >> of you landing at? Maybe I am just used to the Champ butmy "Superto
-> >> land a lot faster in the Rebel than I normally land inlooking and-> >> Champ". I was very pleased with Si's Rebel....Very niceexperience.> -> >> Sorry I didn't say goodbye before I left but-> >> performing plane. Again Si, thank you for the ride and
I was not feeling well-> >> all day and needed to go home.
-> >>
-> >> Keith R661
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[rebel-builders] Rebel Landing speed
Walter,
It is about 1000' but that is from the very end to end. Also, the NE end has quite a slope to it...probably 300' til it flattens out. Not many guys want to fly in here. Higher powered Champs, Scout, PA-18's and one 320 powered PA-12. Its the approaches that most guys get scared over. I have slowly been working on that though.
Too bad about needing more for Amphibs. I have an 1800 amphib kit and had always hoped I could fly it out of my place but it doesn't look like that will happen.
It is about 1000' but that is from the very end to end. Also, the NE end has quite a slope to it...probably 300' til it flattens out. Not many guys want to fly in here. Higher powered Champs, Scout, PA-18's and one 320 powered PA-12. Its the approaches that most guys get scared over. I have slowly been working on that though.
Too bad about needing more for Amphibs. I have an 1800 amphib kit and had always hoped I could fly it out of my place but it doesn't look like that will happen.
[rebel-builders] Rebel Landing speed
My Rebel engine baffle has put a mark on the cowling fiber glass cover, I noticed a chipped paint came off the cowling, the location is at the corner of #3 cylinder where baffle bent 90 degree. Any one knows the baffle to cowling clearance should be? I think it was cuased during Engine start, my prop dynamic test was better than normal.
Jay/N654JM
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail
Jay/N654JM
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 10:25:33 -0700
From: im_planecrazy@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Rebel Landing speed
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Walter,
It is about 1000' but that is from the very end to end. Also, the NE end has quite a slope to it...probably 300' til it flattens out. Not many guys want to fly in here. Higher powered Champs, Scout, PA-18's and one 320 powered PA-12. Its the approaches that most guys get scared over. I have slowly been working on that though.
Too bad about needing more for Amphibs. I have an 1800 amphib kit and had always hoped I could fly it out of my place but it doesn't look like that will happen.
Keith
--- On Wed, 9/23/09, WALTER KLATT <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca> wrote:
From: WALTER KLATT <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Rebel Landing speed
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Date: Wednesday, September 23, 2009, 12:01 PM
How long is your field, Keith? Back when I was on wheels, I used to drop into a 800 foot grass UL field with 2 people, without feeling uncomfortable. The Rebel with full flaps and a little power can land pretty slow on wheels. And that was before I had VGs. Take off was no problem at all with the 320, and was always up in less than half the runway. I even did a 600 foot field with 2 people, but that one you didn't have a lot of room for error, and you had to be ready for a go around.
Amphibs, though, is a whole different story. Minimum for me is a 1500 foot paved runway. It's the landing where you need the room.
Walter
----- Original Message -----
From: Keith Leitch <im_planecrazy@yahoo.com>
Date: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 9:07 am
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Rebel Landing speed
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Thanks Bob! My strip just leaves NO room for error. That is my
biggest concern and the fact that I always seem to fly heavy.
Nothing is very close and I usually carry plenty of fuel for a
round trip excursion, maybe its because I am to cheap to give
the FBO $1+ more per gallon than I pay for fuel. Besides, I
would burn up several gallons just getting to the nearest airport.
I will not even fly my O-235 powered 7AC if the winds are more
than 10MPH. I normally have a crosswind at my strip and it can
get pretty hairy if it is any windier. I am in the process of
trying to extend it a couple hundred feet but dealing with the
wetlands people is NOT easy.
Keith
--- On Wed, 9/23/09, Bob Patterson <bobp@prosumers.ca> wrote:
From: Bob Patterson <bobp@prosumers.ca>
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Rebel Landing speed
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Date: Wednesday, September 23, 2009, 10:33 AM
Hi Keith !
I wouldn't worry too much about the approach speed - good
judgement is much more important ! If you pick the right aiming
spot, you will have no problem landing short.
I could safely fly approaches at 35 -40 mph with full flap
in calm
conditions with my old 912 Rebel - but that is not for the faint-
hearted,
and NOT recommended ! It is FAR better to approach at 65+ mph,
steeply, full flap, to come safely through any wind gradient,
then
flare & land short. The speed bleeds off rapidly with the Rebel,
once the nose is raised. The small extra 'float' gives you time
to get
the tail down to the right position.
My old Rebel often did that, and stopped in less than 140
ft. ....
I could cross the end of our ~3,500 ft. runway at 1,000 ft., descend,
and have to add power to touch down at the far end, where my taxiway
was.
Heavier Rebels will need more space - more inertia -, but it
is still
very common to land & stop an O-320 Rebel in under 500 ft.. You
shouldn't have any worries about the length of your strip.
--
......bobp
bobp@prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.ordermygift.com
Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual
sender
and do not necessarily reflect the views of any other entities
or persons.
Any action taken as a result of the contents of this email is
totally the
responsibility of the reader.
-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Wednesday 23 September 2009 12:27, Keith Leitch wrote:nice as yourThanks for the feedback James. If your Rebel is even half asthe maindads it will be a nice Rebel.:) As you have probably guessed,in shortreason for my question was because of my short strip with obstacles.
Everything I had read prior to this was kudos for the Rebelson my Champstrips. As for tires, I have a set of 26" GY's here that I hadAirsteaks and Iprior to installing some AkBushwheels. They are their 26"lighter thaneventually plan to install them on the Rebel. They are muchimbalance?> You guys are welcome to stop in at any time.the GY's. Do you think the shaking you are getting may be from<james.smith@dcsol.com> wrote:Si Smith
From: james.smith@dcsol.com <james.smith@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Landing speed and Thank you toare muchTo: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Date: Tuesday, September 22, 2009, 10:33 PM
Keith,
As Dad mentioned to you, the rudder control forces on my Rebelpulleys so thatlighter than Dad's. My Rebel is running 2 guides and 2factor in theprobably has an impact. Also, I'm running a small tailwheel (not
Murphy's) and Dad is running a Scott 3200 so that is also adifference isfeel I'm sure. Whatever the specific reason is, theand Dad haddramatic and was basically the first comment that myself, Mattrudder. Iafter flying my Rebel was the difference in the feel of theGoodyears and Ihave about 1/2 dozen landings on pavement with the 26"really havethink the rudder forces are probably a little too light. Youmatter) we'reto be on your toes.
As for landing distances (and take off distances for thatDad's Rebelpretty strong believers that the limiting factor in the real short
performance of the Rebel is limited by the angle of attack.enough angle ofwith the 800 X 6 tires and spring gear just doesn't haveThe 26"attack to take full advantage of his performance potential.hours onGoodyears seem to be a good fit so far. We only have about 13through> performance. The only down side to the bigger tires somy now since the rebuild was completed so we're still working
far is that gearvibrating> once you get over about 115 MPH. It really is a niceshakes pretty good after you break groung and the gear starts
flying planewife duethough. I was hoping to bring it to Fall Colors but with myat work, Iwith our 2nd child in 2 weeks and some issues I have going onand 40 gal.just couldn't justify taking off for a couple of days.
Hope to get up your way in the next year for sure.
James
On 9/22/2009 4:13 PM, siks@ticon.net wrote to rebel-builders:
-> Hi Keith,
-> Your welcome but remember a few things there were 2 of usbefore> ours, and -> I was not familiar with the effect of the-> of fuel on board,, I had only made 3 landings at that strip
quartering crossbit slowerwind over the -> trees. I get in to my home airport quite aapproach youwith flaps and power -> but as Ken said with that kind of anshorter.> David says his strip is 1800 -> feet and we werebetter be ready to land -> when the Rebel is but it will land
stopped at a little over65 MPH andthe half way point. The last -> glance at the airspeed I sawcan getdidn't want to get much slower than
-> that at that strip and my knowledge of the strip. I hope webetter and it wastogether
-> again for a little more time in it. Hope your feelingto Si Smitha -> great weekend.
->
-> Si
-> ----- Original Message -----
-> From: "Keith Leitch" <im_planecrazy@yahoo.com>
-> To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
-> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 9:05 AM
-> Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Landing speed and Thank you"dissapointed" in the->
->
-> > Ken,
-> >
-> > Thanks for the info. I guess I was a littlespeed makes alanding -> > speed. I fly mostly out of short strips and thelooking forbig -> > difference on these short strips. I guesss I wasthey are WAYbetter slow -> > speed ability. Always wanted a Super Cub butand the rudderover priced for
-> > what you get.
-> > Si had mentioned that his sons Rebel was using pulleysto Si Smithwas
-> > much less hard.
-> >
-> > Regards,
-> > keith
-> >
-> > --- On Tue, 9/22/09, Ken <klehman@albedo.net> wrote:
-> >
-> >
-> > From: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
-> > Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Landing speed and Thank youdo have two-> > To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
-> > Date: Tuesday, September 22, 2009, 8:56 AM
-> >
-> >
-> > Hi Keith
-> >
-> > We've seen Si's plane and agree that it is a "rocket"!
-> >
-> > FWIW my rudder (and elevator) is very light to move but II've noticed-> > pulleys on each of the four cables. Without the pulleysguides which-> > that you can hear the rudder cables moving through thestop I'llmust
-> > add some friction.
-> >
-> > I normally approach at 60 to 65 knots. For a very shorthave somecome -> > back as low as 50 over the threshold as long as Icaution (as youpower on and
-> > flaps but that would NOT be a recommended thing. Thepower curve,-> > will discover) is that when you get this wing behind thekeep ait -> > will just sink instead of flaring. I generally like todescending.> Even in -> > ground effect, there is often only alittle -> > power on until I'm certain I've flared and am not
second or two between awould notlevel -> > attitude and the 3 point attitude with power off. Iwith thislike to -> > experience a power loss if below about 65 knotsoff you almostairplane. No -> > problem above 65 knots though. With powerto keep thehave to -> > consciously push it down through the last 50 feetAnyway there'sspeed from
-> > decaying. Weight affects all of this by a few knots.ride in hisone -> > opinion for you. No doubt there will be others ;)
-> >
-> > Ken
-> > (500+ Rebel landings so far...)
-> >
-> > Keith Leitch wrote:
-> >> First of...a big thank you to Si Smith for giving me aColors Tour-> >> very nice looking Rebel. We recently attended the FallRebel for ain -> >> Northern MN and he arranged for me to hop aboard hismy first-> >> short blast. And Blast is exactly what it was. This wasthe sticktime -> >> in a Rebel and I was very impressed. He let me takethe stick.for a -> >> bit and I was very impressd with the light feel ofit the RebelI flew -> >> my O-235 powered 7AC in the tour and compared toChamp. Is thisfeels -> >> like a sports car as far as the stick goes. I did notice
though that -> >> the rudders were MUCH harder than on mythe stick andtypical? I am -> >> not saying it was bad....just seems likeneeded tothe rudder -> >> pedals are at very opposite extremes of forceclimb like amove them. I -> >> really liked the climb also. Seemed toquestion....What> speeds are mostrocket compared -> >> to my 127 and Champ. Now to my mainwe seemed-> >> of you landing at? Maybe I am just used to the Champ butmy "Superto
-> >> land a lot faster in the Rebel than I normally land inlooking and-> >> Champ". I was very pleased with Si's Rebel....Very niceexperience.> -> >> Sorry I didn't say goodbye before I left but-> >> performing plane. Again Si, thank you for the ride and
I was not feeling well-> >> all day and needed to go home.
-> >>
-> >> Keith R661
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_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail
[rebel-builders] Rebel Landing speed
Maybe others might, but I wouldn't go into a 1000 foot grass field with my amphibs. The problem with amphibs, is that you can't land with too high of an angle of attack, because of the float tails. Also, if you land with your front wheels too high, you risk slamming them down too hard if you cut power. I like to keep my power on until after the front wheels touch down to let them touch as gently as possible. If you land without power, then you need more speed.
Either way, you eat up a lot more runway landing on amphibs.
Walter
----- Original Message -----
From: Keith Leitch <im_planecrazy@yahoo.com>
Date: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 10:31 am
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Rebel Landing speed
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
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Either way, you eat up a lot more runway landing on amphibs.
Walter
----- Original Message -----
From: Keith Leitch <im_planecrazy@yahoo.com>
Date: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 10:31 am
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Rebel Landing speed
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Walter,
It is about 1000' but that is from the very end to end. Also,
the NE end has quite a slope to it...probably 300' til it
flattens out. Not many guys want to fly in here. Higher powered
Champs, Scout, PA-18's and one 320 powered PA-12. Its the
approaches that most guys get scared over. I have slowly been
working on that though.
Too bad about needing more for Amphibs. I have an 1800 amphib
kit and had always hoped I could fly it out of my place but it
doesn't look like that will happen.
Keith
--- On Wed, 9/23/09, WALTER KLATT <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca> wrote:
From: WALTER KLATT <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Rebel Landing speed
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Date: Wednesday, September 23, 2009, 12:01 PM
How long is your field, Keith? Back when I was on wheels, I used
to drop into a 800 foot grass UL field with 2 people, without
feeling uncomfortable. The Rebel with full flaps and a little
power can land pretty slow on wheels. And that was before I had
VGs. Take off was no problem at all with the 320, and was always
up in less than half the runway. I even did a 600 foot field
with 2 people, but that one you didn't have a lot of room for
error, and you had to be ready for a go around.
Amphibs, though, is a whole different story. Minimum for me is a
1500 foot paved runway. It's the landing where you need the room.
Walter
----- Original Message -----
From: Keith Leitch <im_planecrazy@yahoo.com>
Date: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 9:07 am
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Rebel Landing speed
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
myThanks Bob! My strip just leaves NO room for error. That isfaint-biggest concern and the fact that I always seem to fly heavy.
Nothing is very close and I usually carry plenty of fuel for a
round trip excursion, maybe its because I am to cheap to give
the FBO $1+ more per gallon than I pay for fuel. Besides, I
would burn up several gallons just getting to the nearest airport.
I will not even fly my O-235 powered 7AC if the winds are more
than 10MPH. I normally have a crosswind at my strip and it can
get pretty hairy if it is any windier. I am in the process of
trying to extend it a couple hundred feet but dealing with the
wetlands people is NOT easy.
Keith
--- On Wed, 9/23/09, Bob Patterson <bobp@prosumers.ca> wrote:
From: Bob Patterson <bobp@prosumers.ca>
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Rebel Landing speed
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Date: Wednesday, September 23, 2009, 10:33 AM
Hi Keith !
I wouldn't worry too much about the approach speed - good
judgement is much more important ! If you pick the right aiming
spot, you will have no problem landing short.
I could safely fly approaches at 35 -40 mph with full flap
in calm
conditions with my old 912 Rebel - but that is not for themph,hearted,
and NOT recommended ! It is FAR better to approach at 65+timesteeply, full flap, to come safely through any wind gradient,
then
flare & land short. The speed bleeds off rapidly with the Rebel,
once the nose is raised. The small extra 'float' gives youdescend,> and have to add power to touch down at the far end,to get
the tail down to the right position.
My old Rebel often did that, and stopped in less than 140
ft. ....
I could cross the end of our ~3,500 ft. runway at 1,000 ft.,
where my taxiwayitwas.
Heavier Rebels will need more space - more inertia -, butindividualis still
very common to land & stop an O-320 Rebel in under 500 ft.. You
shouldn't have any worries about the length of your strip.
--
......bobp
bobp@prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.ordermygift.com
Any views expressed in this message are those of thesender
and do not necessarily reflect the views of any other entities
or persons.
Any action taken as a result of the contents of this email is
totally the
responsibility of the reader.
-------------------------------orig.-------------------------guessed,On Wednesday 23 September 2009 12:27, Keith Leitch wrote:nice as yourThanks for the feedback James. If your Rebel is even half asdads it will be a nice Rebel.:) As you have probablyobstacles.> > Everything I had read prior to this was kudos forthe mainreason for my question was because of my short strip with
the Rebelshadin shortstrips. As for tires, I have a set of 26" GY's here that Ifromon my ChampAirsteaks and Iprior to installing some AkBushwheels. They are their 26"lighter thaneventually plan to install them on the Rebel. They are muchthe GY's. Do you think the shaking you are getting may beRebelimbalance?> You guys are welcome to stop in at any time.<james.smith@dcsol.com> wrote:Si Smith
From: james.smith@dcsol.com <james.smith@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Landing speed and Thank you toTo: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Date: Tuesday, September 22, 2009, 10:33 PM
Keith,
As Dad mentioned to you, the rudder control forces on myMattare muchpulleys so thatlighter than Dad's. My Rebel is running 2 guides and 2factor in theprobably has an impact. Also, I'm running a small tailwheel (not
Murphy's) and Dad is running a Scott 3200 so that is also adifference isfeel I'm sure. Whatever the specific reason is, thedramatic and was basically the first comment that myself,Youand Dad hadrudder. Iafter flying my Rebel was the difference in the feel of theGoodyears and Ihave about 1/2 dozen landings on pavement with the 26"think the rudder forces are probably a little too light.13really havematter) we'reto be on your toes.
As for landing distances (and take off distances for thatDad's Rebelpretty strong believers that the limiting factor in the real short
performance of the Rebel is limited by the angle of attack.enough angle ofwith the 800 X 6 tires and spring gear just doesn't haveThe 26"attack to take full advantage of his performance potential.Goodyears seem to be a good fit so far. We only have aboutworkinghours onmy now since the rebuild was completed so we're stillsothrough> performance. The only down side to the bigger tiresstartsfar is that gearshakes pretty good after you break groung and the gearnicevibrating> once you get over about 115 MPH. It really is aonflying planewife duethough. I was hoping to bring it to Fall Colors but with mywith our 2nd child in 2 weeks and some issues I have goingstripat work, Iand 40 gal.just couldn't justify taking off for a couple of days.
Hope to get up your way in the next year for sure.
James
On 9/22/2009 4:13 PM, siks@ticon.net wrote to rebel-builders:
-> Hi Keith,
-> Your welcome but remember a few things there were 2 of us-> of fuel on board,, I had only made 3 landings at thatlandbefore> ours, and -> I was not familiar with the effect of the
quartering crossbit slowerwind over the -> trees. I get in to my home airport quite aapproach youwith flaps and power -> but as Ken said with that kind of anbetter be ready to land -> when the Rebel is but it willweshorter.> David says his strip is 1800 -> feet and we were
stopped at a little over65 MPH andthe half way point. The last -> glance at the airspeed I sawdidn't want to get much slower than
-> that at that strip and my knowledge of the strip. I hopebutcan getbetter and it wastogether
-> again for a little more time in it. Hope your feelingto Si Smitha -> great weekend.
->
-> Si
-> ----- Original Message -----
-> From: "Keith Leitch" <im_planecrazy@yahoo.com>
-> To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
-> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 9:05 AM
-> Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Landing speed and Thank you"dissapointed" in the->
->
-> > Ken,
-> >
-> > Thanks for the info. I guess I was a littlespeed makes alanding -> > speed. I fly mostly out of short strips and thelooking forbig -> > difference on these short strips. I guesss I wasbetter slow -> > speed ability. Always wanted a Super Cubyouthey are WAYand the rudderover priced for
-> > what you get.
-> > Si had mentioned that his sons Rebel was using pulleyswas
-> > much less hard.
-> >
-> > Regards,
-> > keith
-> >
-> > --- On Tue, 9/22/09, Ken <klehman@albedo.net> wrote:
-> >
-> >
-> > From: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
-> > Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Landing speed and ThankIto Si Smith-> > To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
-> > Date: Tuesday, September 22, 2009, 8:56 AM
-> >
-> >
-> > Hi Keith
-> >
-> > We've seen Si's plane and agree that it is a "rocket"!
-> >
-> > FWIW my rudder (and elevator) is very light to move butthedo have twoI've noticed-> > pulleys on each of the four cables. Without the pulleysguides which-> > that you can hear the rudder cables moving through thestop I'llmust
-> > add some friction.
-> >
-> > I normally approach at 60 to 65 knots. For a very shorthave somecome -> > back as low as 50 over the threshold as long as Icaution (as youpower on and
-> > flaps but that would NOT be a recommended thing. The-> > will discover) is that when you get this wing behindtopower curve,it -> > will just sink instead of flaring. I generally likenotkeep alittle -> > power on until I'm certain I've flared and amIdescending.> Even in -> > ground effect, there is often only a
second or two between alevel -> > attitude and the 3 point attitude with power off.feetwould notwith thislike to -> > experience a power loss if below about 65 knotsoff you almostairplane. No -> > problem above 65 knots though. With powerhave to -> > consciously push it down through the last 50histo keep theAnyway there'sspeed from
-> > decaying. Weight affects all of this by a few knots.ride in hisone -> > opinion for you. No doubt there will be others ;)
-> >
-> > Ken
-> > (500+ Rebel landings so far...)
-> >
-> > Keith Leitch wrote:
-> >> First of...a big thank you to Si Smith for giving me aColors Tour-> >> very nice looking Rebel. We recently attended the Fallin -> >> Northern MN and he arranged for me to hop aboardwasRebel for a-> >> short blast. And Blast is exactly what it was. Thistakemy firsttime -> >> in a Rebel and I was very impressed. He let meofthe stickfor a -> >> bit and I was very impressd with the light feeltothe stick.I flew -> >> my O-235 powered 7AC in the tour and compareddid noticeit the Rebelfeels -> >> like a sports car as far as the stick goes. IforceChamp. Is thisthough that -> >> the rudders were MUCH harder than on mythe stick andtypical? I am -> >> not saying it was bad....just seems likethe rudder -> >> pedals are at very opposite extremes ofbutneeded toclimb like amove them. I -> >> really liked the climb also. Seemed toquestion....What> speeds are mostrocket compared -> >> to my 127 and Champ. Now to my main-> >> of you landing at? Maybe I am just used to the Champnicewe seemedmy "Superto
-> >> land a lot faster in the Rebel than I normally land in-> >> Champ". I was very pleased with Si's Rebel....Verybutlooking andexperience.> -> >> Sorry I didn't say goodbye before I left-> >> performing plane. Again Si, thank you for the ride and--I was not feeling well-> >> all day and needed to go home.
-> >>
-> >> Keith R661
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[rebel-builders] Rebel Landing speed
I've taken off from a 1200' gas strip on a 90 degree windless day loaded
over 1700lbs with my amphibs on the plane. I was pretty nevous because of
hydro wires right at the end of the strip but we were off in less than 500'
and about 150' when we crossed over the wires. With practice I think you
could operate out of your strip on floats but I'm not sure that murphy
floats are tough enough for regular use on grass. For really short landings
on wheels I like to come in high and slip all the way down till it's time
to flare.
At 10:25 AM 23/09/2009 -0700, you wrote:
want to fly in here. Higher powered Champs, Scout, PA-18's and one 320
powered PA-12. Its the approaches that most guys get scared over. I have
slowly been working on that though.
will happen.
over 1700lbs with my amphibs on the plane. I was pretty nevous because of
hydro wires right at the end of the strip but we were off in less than 500'
and about 150' when we crossed over the wires. With practice I think you
could operate out of your strip on floats but I'm not sure that murphy
floats are tough enough for regular use on grass. For really short landings
on wheels I like to come in high and slip all the way down till it's time
to flare.
At 10:25 AM 23/09/2009 -0700, you wrote:
has quite a slope to it...probably 300' til it flattens out. Not many guysWalter,
It is about 1000' but that is from the very end to end. Also, the NE end
want to fly in here. Higher powered Champs, Scout, PA-18's and one 320
powered PA-12. Its the approaches that most guys get scared over. I have
slowly been working on that though.
always hoped I could fly it out of my place but it doesn't look like thatToo bad about needing more for Amphibs. I have an 1800 amphib kit and had
will happen.