0 320 engine mounts / cowling

[Bob Patterson]

You've REALLY hit a sore spot for me !! I <REALLY> don't
like the "speed cowl" (which does NOTHING for speed !) - it's a
REAL pig for maintenance, especially on floats !! Where do you
put this huge sail that will sink if you drop it ???!!!

I'm particularly burned, because the cowl wires (that were
even bent around the lip of the cowl !) came forward and chewed
great huge chunks (1/4" square !) out of my prop !!!!! The shape
of the speed cowl forces them forward if vibrated.... And that
was a brand-new $3,000 prop !!! Not to mention the mess I'd have
been in if it hadn't happened on short final !!

NEVER had a problem with the wires on any of our other 3
Rebels ! Or ANY Rebel I've ever flown with the 'standard' cowl.
Of course, this <could> be avoided <IF> I came up with a sure-fire
solid, guaranteed way to hold those wires in place that would
still let me get them out easily !

Also, you can't really do a proper preflight with the ^%$^%$%^
thing - just peer in through the oil filler flap !

In terms of cost - add about $2,000 for that sexy cowl !!
Add it up - cowl, special prop spacer, special spinner, special
exhaust .... $$$$ !!!!

If you do the 'standard' cowl, you can put the side braces
on horizontally, add piano hinges top & bottom, and .... just pull
2 pins and swing open the top & bottom of the cowling !!

If you're concerned about looks - a Rebel builder in Australia
used a Thorp T-18 nose bowl from Aircraft Spruce (about $85), and
it looked pretty sexy ....

I was SO mad at this cowling, I'd have traded ANYBODY for
2 cents !! I just wanted to put a little tape over the oil cooler
inlet to raise my temps a bit (it's getting cold here !) - Only
takes an HOUR !! Pull the pins (bending carefully), undo a bunch
of screws, lift and place SOMEWHERE .... GGGRRRRRRRRRR !!!

I'm still threatening to take a hacksaw to it, and carve
out some decent side panels, with piano hinges !! You can KEEP
'sexy' - give me MAINTAINABILITY !!!!!

Sorry for the tirade, but I'm still peeved with the thing !!

....bobp

-----------------------------orig.---------------------------------------
At 08:22 PM 11/2/00 EST, you wrote:

OK, old cowling verse new cowling for those of us who have still to decide
and order a cowling. Which cowling do you prefer, and why? I've heard ease of
maintenance, and know the prop spacer and C of G for the old cowling. The new
cowling gets marks for looks and better visibility (well, on second thought,
looks might be a personal preference). Lets not forget cost. Is it worth it?

Bruce G 357R
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[rebelair]

Bob

It sounds like somebody did a substandard job of your cowl installation. I
can well understand why you are so upset. I would not be happy either.

If properly done, the cowl can be removed & replaced in under 10 minutes
revealing the entire engine. (I did not use the piano hinge technique as
you know because I thought it would lead to difficulties in removing the
cowling, and, therefore, it probably would not get done too often. The
hinge pin I'm sure would be just fine if it goes straight in and out, but on
the speed cowling, the pin has to curve substantially at the nose, and, that
looked like trouble). Maintainability is crucial. If you do it right with
the speed cowling, you can achieve this. Obviously, yours was not done
right.

The cowl installation does take a fair bit of work to bring it to this point
but the results to me are well worth it. The forward/downward visibility
are the best on any aircraft I've ever flown.

Bob, are you thinking of getting rid of the speed cowling when you change
your prop out to a Warp Drive or whatever? Obviously that would be the
ideal time.

BTW, my exhaust system cost the same as Ron Barber's who has the standard
cowling. He had to buy 3 exhaust systems. I only had to buy one and it fit
properly right off the bat. The spacer cost $190 I think but I don't know
the difference in cost from the small spinner to the 13" one used for the
speed cowling. Ron also bought 2 spinners as the first one departed the
aircraft in flight.

Bob, are you saying that the new Sensenich prop on your 0320 aircraft has a
1/4" gouge in it now? If that is true, you have great reason to be upset.
Sorry to hear that. Can this be cleaned up by a prop guy?

Anything I can do to help?

Regards

Brian #328R

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patterson [mailto:bob.patterson@canrem.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2000 9:30 PM
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List
Subject: 0 320 engine mounts / cowling



You've REALLY hit a sore spot for me !! I <REALLY> don't
like the "speed cowl" (which does NOTHING for speed !) - it's a
REAL pig for maintenance, especially on floats !! Where do you
put this huge sail that will sink if you drop it ???!!!

I'm particularly burned, because the cowl wires (that were
even bent around the lip of the cowl !) came forward and chewed
great huge chunks (1/4" square !) out of my prop !!!!! The shape
of the speed cowl forces them forward if vibrated.... And that
was a brand-new $3,000 prop !!! Not to mention the mess I'd have
been in if it hadn't happened on short final !!

NEVER had a problem with the wires on any of our other 3
Rebels ! Or ANY Rebel I've ever flown with the 'standard' cowl.
Of course, this <could> be avoided <IF> I came up with a sure-fire
solid, guaranteed way to hold those wires in place that would
still let me get them out easily !

Also, you can't really do a proper preflight with the ^%$^%$%^
thing - just peer in through the oil filler flap !

In terms of cost - add about $2,000 for that sexy cowl !!
Add it up - cowl, special prop spacer, special spinner, special
exhaust .... $$$$ !!!!

If you do the 'standard' cowl, you can put the side braces
on horizontally, add piano hinges top & bottom, and .... just pull
2 pins and swing open the top & bottom of the cowling !!

If you're concerned about looks - a Rebel builder in Australia
used a Thorp T-18 nose bowl from Aircraft Spruce (about $85), and
it looked pretty sexy ....

I was SO mad at this cowling, I'd have traded ANYBODY for
2 cents !! I just wanted to put a little tape over the oil cooler
inlet to raise my temps a bit (it's getting cold here !) - Only
takes an HOUR !! Pull the pins (bending carefully), undo a bunch
of screws, lift and place SOMEWHERE .... GGGRRRRRRRRRR !!!

I'm still threatening to take a hacksaw to it, and carve
out some decent side panels, with piano hinges !! You can KEEP
'sexy' - give me MAINTAINABILITY !!!!!

Sorry for the tirade, but I'm still peeved with the thing !!

....bobp

-----------------------------orig.---------------------------------------
At 08:22 PM 11/2/00 EST, you wrote:

OK, old cowling verse new cowling for those of us who have still to decide
and order a cowling. Which cowling do you prefer, and why? I've heard ease

of

maintenance, and know the prop spacer and C of G for the old cowling. The

new

cowling gets marks for looks and better visibility (well, on second

thought,

looks might be a personal preference). Lets not forget cost. Is it worth

it?

Bruce G 357R
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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Your following message has been delivered to the 163 members of
the list murphy-rebel@dcsol.com at 13:09:17 on 3 Nov 2000.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------


GEE, THANKS BRIAN! Is this beat up Wayne week or what?

Bob's P's cowling <CAN> be removed in less than 10 minutes unless he is a
really slow screw'er. (although that <CAN> sometimes be a good thing!) Bob's
cowling is quicker to remove than Howard's (with his requested camlocks to
keep in order when removed on each side, instead of the piano wire) and I
can take Howard's off (top and bottom) in less than 10 minutes. I think
maybe Bob was just having one of those "bad days" and got carried away while
typing his "tirade"!

The speed cowling is <DEFINITELY> not as easy to do quick maintenance checks
though, especially over the water, as no matter how you attach the cowl
there will be screws (or clips, or camlocks) to drop into the lake (unless
as Bob says, you cut some large doors in the fiberglass cowl halves instead,
besides the OPTIONAL oil access door I installed on his). The bottom,
firewall area, screws are the worst and the ones that are most likely to go
"plunk" in the lake! Howard slings a tarp between the floats to work at the
dock! Maybe that is why he didn't bother pulling his cowling to find that
his carburetor was falling apart!!!!!! Personally, I will <NEVER, NEVER,
NEVER> install another Speed Cowling on a Rebel, unless specifically
requested by the customer, as I don't have any cheese left for any more
whine!

Regards,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

----- Original Message -----
From: "rebelair" <rebelair@idirect.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2000 11:27 AM
Subject: RE: 0 320 engine mounts / cowling

Bob

It sounds like somebody did a substandard job of your cowl installation.

I

can well understand why you are so upset. I would not be happy either.

If properly done, the cowl can be removed & replaced in under 10 minutes
revealing the entire engine. (I did not use the piano hinge technique as
you know because I thought it would lead to difficulties in removing the
cowling, and, therefore, it probably would not get done too often. The
hinge pin I'm sure would be just fine if it goes straight in and out, but

on

the speed cowling, the pin has to curve substantially at the nose, and,

that

looked like trouble). Maintainability is crucial. If you do it right

with

the speed cowling, you can achieve this. Obviously, yours was not done
right.

The cowl installation does take a fair bit of work to bring it to this

point

but the results to me are well worth it. The forward/downward visibility
are the best on any aircraft I've ever flown.

Bob, are you thinking of getting rid of the speed cowling when you change
your prop out to a Warp Drive or whatever? Obviously that would be the
ideal time.

BTW, my exhaust system cost the same as Ron Barber's who has the standard
cowling. He had to buy 3 exhaust systems. I only had to buy one and it

fit

properly right off the bat. The spacer cost $190 I think but I don't know
the difference in cost from the small spinner to the 13" one used for the
speed cowling. Ron also bought 2 spinners as the first one departed the
aircraft in flight.

Bob, are you saying that the new Sensenich prop on your 0320 aircraft has

a

1/4" gouge in it now? If that is true, you have great reason to be upset.
Sorry to hear that. Can this be cleaned up by a prop guy?

Anything I can do to help?

Regards

Brian #328R

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patterson [mailto:bob.patterson@canrem.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2000 9:30 PM
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List
Subject: 0 320 engine mounts / cowling



You've REALLY hit a sore spot for me !! I <REALLY> don't
like the "speed cowl" (which does NOTHING for speed !) - it's a
REAL pig for maintenance, especially on floats !! Where do you
put this huge sail that will sink if you drop it ???!!!

I'm particularly burned, because the cowl wires (that were
even bent around the lip of the cowl !) came forward and chewed
great huge chunks (1/4" square !) out of my prop !!!!! The shape
of the speed cowl forces them forward if vibrated.... And that
was a brand-new $3,000 prop !!! Not to mention the mess I'd have
been in if it hadn't happened on short final !!

NEVER had a problem with the wires on any of our other 3
Rebels ! Or ANY Rebel I've ever flown with the 'standard' cowl.
Of course, this <could> be avoided <IF> I came up with a sure-fire
solid, guaranteed way to hold those wires in place that would
still let me get them out easily !

Also, you can't really do a proper preflight with the ^%$^%$%^
thing - just peer in through the oil filler flap !

In terms of cost - add about $2,000 for that sexy cowl !!
Add it up - cowl, special prop spacer, special spinner, special
exhaust .... $$$$ !!!!

If you do the 'standard' cowl, you can put the side braces
on horizontally, add piano hinges top & bottom, and .... just pull
2 pins and swing open the top & bottom of the cowling !!

If you're concerned about looks - a Rebel builder in Australia
used a Thorp T-18 nose bowl from Aircraft Spruce (about $85), and
it looked pretty sexy ....

I was SO mad at this cowling, I'd have traded ANYBODY for
2 cents !! I just wanted to put a little tape over the oil cooler
inlet to raise my temps a bit (it's getting cold here !) - Only
takes an HOUR !! Pull the pins (bending carefully), undo a bunch
of screws, lift and place SOMEWHERE .... GGGRRRRRRRRRR !!!

I'm still threatening to take a hacksaw to it, and carve
out some decent side panels, with piano hinges !! You can KEEP
'sexy' - give me MAINTAINABILITY !!!!!

Sorry for the tirade, but I'm still peeved with the thing !!

....bobp

-----------------------------orig.---------------------------------------
At 08:22 PM 11/2/00 EST, you wrote:

OK, old cowling verse new cowling for those of us who have still to

decide

and order a cowling. Which cowling do you prefer, and why? I've heard

ease

of

maintenance, and know the prop spacer and C of G for the old cowling. The

new

cowling gets marks for looks and better visibility (well, on second

thought,

looks might be a personal preference). Lets not forget cost. Is it worth

it?

Bruce G 357R

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[David Fife]

Bob,

Boy, your pretty steamed about this cowl thing.
Sounds like you need a good fiberglass man to make a
new cowling! See ya on November 12th at the RAA
meeting.



=====
Sincerely,

David K. Fife
3D Composite Aircraft Parts Inc.
1345 Merkle St.
Ortonville, MI. 48462
Phone 248-627-4367

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?

From homework help to love advice, Yahoo! Experts has your answer.

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[Mike Davis]

On this note Dave, why don't you put some pictures and information
together, and I could put a page up on the web site about them with a link
for your e-mail address.

Mike

At 11:01 PM 11/3/00 -0500, you wrote:

Hi Dave,

I've been hearing from builders about you're wing tips. Can you email me some
pictures with prices and things?

Bruce G 357R
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[Bob Patterson]

Okay Alister, I'm calmed ....

I was just having a really bad day .... but I'm still trying
to figure out where to apply the hacksaw to this cowling !

It would be a bit of a trick to feed the wires from the back on
this one - although I have seen some done that way, and it <IS> much
better. The cowls I've seen with wires on the back had the piano
hinges facing out, or even with the fiberglass, making it easier
to insert the pins. Wayne did such a good job of fitting this cowl that
the hinge is nicely hidden on the inside. This means you'd have to pull
the back of the cowl <out> to push in the pins. It is also VERY difficult
to get the pins to go around the sharp curve at the front.

Putting in a bolt, with a few small washers, topped by a penny
washer, to snap an "S" in the wire under, as I did on my last Rebel,
<IS> the ideal way to easily secure the wires - and would not be too
difficult to do at the back. At the front, with this sharply curved
cowl, it will be a bit tricky - but I will have to come up with something
easier than what I have now !

......bobp

----------------------------orig.-----------------------------------
At 10:35 PM 11/3/00 +1300, you wrote:

Settle down Bob, Why didn't you just feed the wires in from the back--- and
then actually put a retaining device on them, they dont fall out then!!

The cowl really does look Sexy! I pull it off every 10hrs or so to check
everything is OK ( which it it always is!) it is no problem, however I am
not on floats.

Cheers

Alister


----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2000 3:29 PM
Subject: 0 320 engine mounts / cowling

You've REALLY hit a sore spot for me !! I <REALLY> don't
like the "speed cowl" (which does NOTHING for speed !) - it's a
REAL pig for maintenance, especially on floats !! Where do you
put this huge sail that will sink if you drop it ???!!!

I'm particularly burned, because the cowl wires (that were
even bent around the lip of the cowl !) came forward and chewed
great huge chunks (1/4" square !) out of my prop !!!!! The shape
of the speed cowl forces them forward if vibrated.... And that
was a brand-new $3,000 prop !!! Not to mention the mess I'd have
been in if it hadn't happened on short final !!

NEVER had a problem with the wires on any of our other 3
Rebels ! Or ANY Rebel I've ever flown with the 'standard' cowl.
Of course, this <could> be avoided <IF> I came up with a sure-fire
solid, guaranteed way to hold those wires in place that would
still let me get them out easily !

Also, you can't really do a proper preflight with the ^%$^%$%^
thing - just peer in through the oil filler flap !

In terms of cost - add about $2,000 for that sexy cowl !!
Add it up - cowl, special prop spacer, special spinner, special
exhaust .... $$$$ !!!!

If you do the 'standard' cowl, you can put the side braces
on horizontally, add piano hinges top & bottom, and .... just pull
2 pins and swing open the top & bottom of the cowling !!

If you're concerned about looks - a Rebel builder in Australia
used a Thorp T-18 nose bowl from Aircraft Spruce (about $85), and
it looked pretty sexy ....

I was SO mad at this cowling, I'd have traded ANYBODY for
2 cents !! I just wanted to put a little tape over the oil cooler
inlet to raise my temps a bit (it's getting cold here !) - Only
takes an HOUR !! Pull the pins (bending carefully), undo a bunch
of screws, lift and place SOMEWHERE .... GGGRRRRRRRRRR !!!

I'm still threatening to take a hacksaw to it, and carve
out some decent side panels, with piano hinges !! You can KEEP
'sexy' - give me MAINTAINABILITY !!!!!

Sorry for the tirade, but I'm still peeved with the thing !!

....bobp

-----------------------------orig.---------------------------------------
At 08:22 PM 11/2/00 EST, you wrote:

OK, old cowling verse new cowling for those of us who have still to

decide

and order a cowling. Which cowling do you prefer, and why? I've heard

ease of

maintenance, and know the prop spacer and C of G for the old cowling. The

new

cowling gets marks for looks and better visibility (well, on second

thought,

looks might be a personal preference). Lets not forget cost. Is it worth

it?

Bruce G 357R

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[Bob Patterson]

Thanks for your concern, Brian !

Actually, Wayne did a very tidy job of installing the speed
cowl, 'by the book - and better', - it's just that the cowl really wasn't
designed for easy maintenance ! You've done a GREAT job of modifying
yours for easier access, but I guess I'm spoiled - I've had 2 Rebels
with the standard cowling ! :-)

Removing mine now is such a big job because of my paranoia
- justified by my 'brush with death' (or at least a big bill for
a new prop) !!! ;-)

Because the wires came forward, even though they were hooked
over the back lip of the cowl, when I replaced them, I drilled a
1/8" hole in the fiberglass, and pushed the end of the wire in, then
reached in behind with pliers and bent it forward over 1/2" !!
Not taking ANY chances again - it <could> have been fatal !!
I'd already put about 17 hours on the Rebel, and the wires had
not shown any sign of moving, so I felt reasonably comfortable
with the setup. (We did an oil change that day, and I guess pulling
the wires and replacing them loosened them enough - or maybe just
putting the cowl back on a bit differently than it was ... )

This, of course, means I have to do an enormous amount of
fiddling, to work the pliers in behind the cowl lip, and carefully
bend and push the wire, to get it out .... Not the best setup,
but there wasn't ANY time for niceties.

The 'incident' happened on the Thursday - and we were leaving
on the Rebel Ramble on Saturday morning !! There were 2 huge 1/4" - 1/2"
square chunks cut out of the trailing edge of the prop !!! Fortunately,
I heard the bangs and saw the shiny arc on the prop when I was on
short final for 33, and was able to shut down & roll in. If I had
been somewhere in the Rockies, or out over Lake Huron - it could
have been VERY messy !!! I'm quite sure they would have cut a
blade right off - at which point the vibration could shake the
engine right off, and the glide wouldn't be pretty, with the
CofG 'way at the back !!!!!!!

I am enormously grateful to the wonderful folks at Hope
Aero Propellers !! I took the prop down to them at 3 o'clock on
Thursday afternoon, just hoping it <might> be saved, or that they might
have a replacement ..... (it looked BAD !!!)

I called at 10 o'clock Friday morning to see if they'd been
able to X-ray it to see if there was any chance of repair - and they
told me I could "Come & get it in 1/2 hour, the paint is just drying" !!
They had filed off about 4" x 1/4" of aluminum on each blade, after
testing it for cracks, re-balanced it, and repainted the black on
the back of the blades !!!!! It was very fortunate that it was
right in at the root end ! Those guys are FANTASTIC !!!!

We put it back on the Rebel, did a test flight, finishing
just as the first Ramblers flew in !! Put the Rebel to bed, and
went down to get things ready for the kick-off BBQ .... (whew !)

If it hadn't been for Hope Aero, the Ramble would have been
delayed for several days - or <we> wouldn't have gone AT ALL !!!

I'm pretty happy with the metal prop - it IS heavier, but
I think it's smoother, and I'm getting a bit worried about Warp
Drive props these days .... not sure how they'd stand up to a
"wire attack" ! :-) Think I'll just stick with this one for
now - and try to find a way to make the cowling a LOT easier
for maintenance .....

.....bobp

------------------------------orig.------------------------------------
At 11:27 AM 11/3/00 -0500, you wrote:

Bob

It sounds like somebody did a substandard job of your cowl installation. I
can well understand why you are so upset. I would not be happy either.

If properly done, the cowl can be removed & replaced in under 10 minutes
revealing the entire engine. (I did not use the piano hinge technique as
you know because I thought it would lead to difficulties in removing the
cowling, and, therefore, it probably would not get done too often. The
hinge pin I'm sure would be just fine if it goes straight in and out, but on
the speed cowling, the pin has to curve substantially at the nose, and, that
looked like trouble). Maintainability is crucial. If you do it right with
the speed cowling, you can achieve this. Obviously, yours was not done
right.

The cowl installation does take a fair bit of work to bring it to this point
but the results to me are well worth it. The forward/downward visibility
are the best on any aircraft I've ever flown.

Bob, are you thinking of getting rid of the speed cowling when you change
your prop out to a Warp Drive or whatever? Obviously that would be the
ideal time.

BTW, my exhaust system cost the same as Ron Barber's who has the standard
cowling. He had to buy 3 exhaust systems. I only had to buy one and it fit
properly right off the bat. The spacer cost $190 I think but I don't know
the difference in cost from the small spinner to the 13" one used for the
speed cowling. Ron also bought 2 spinners as the first one departed the
aircraft in flight.

Bob, are you saying that the new Sensenich prop on your 0320 aircraft has a
1/4" gouge in it now? If that is true, you have great reason to be upset.
Sorry to hear that. Can this be cleaned up by a prop guy?

Anything I can do to help?

Regards

Brian #328R

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patterson [mailto:bob.patterson@canrem.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2000 9:30 PM
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List
Subject: 0 320 engine mounts / cowling



You've REALLY hit a sore spot for me !! I <REALLY> don't
like the "speed cowl" (which does NOTHING for speed !) - it's a
REAL pig for maintenance, especially on floats !! Where do you
put this huge sail that will sink if you drop it ???!!!

I'm particularly burned, because the cowl wires (that were
even bent around the lip of the cowl !) came forward and chewed
great huge chunks (1/4" square !) out of my prop !!!!! The shape
of the speed cowl forces them forward if vibrated.... And that
was a brand-new $3,000 prop !!! Not to mention the mess I'd have
been in if it hadn't happened on short final !!

NEVER had a problem with the wires on any of our other 3
Rebels ! Or ANY Rebel I've ever flown with the 'standard' cowl.
Of course, this <could> be avoided <IF> I came up with a sure-fire
solid, guaranteed way to hold those wires in place that would
still let me get them out easily !

Also, you can't really do a proper preflight with the ^%$^%$%^
thing - just peer in through the oil filler flap !

In terms of cost - add about $2,000 for that sexy cowl !!
Add it up - cowl, special prop spacer, special spinner, special
exhaust .... $$$$ !!!!

If you do the 'standard' cowl, you can put the side braces
on horizontally, add piano hinges top & bottom, and .... just pull
2 pins and swing open the top & bottom of the cowling !!

If you're concerned about looks - a Rebel builder in Australia
used a Thorp T-18 nose bowl from Aircraft Spruce (about $85), and
it looked pretty sexy ....

I was SO mad at this cowling, I'd have traded ANYBODY for
2 cents !! I just wanted to put a little tape over the oil cooler
inlet to raise my temps a bit (it's getting cold here !) - Only
takes an HOUR !! Pull the pins (bending carefully), undo a bunch
of screws, lift and place SOMEWHERE .... GGGRRRRRRRRRR !!!

I'm still threatening to take a hacksaw to it, and carve
out some decent side panels, with piano hinges !! You can KEEP
'sexy' - give me MAINTAINABILITY !!!!!

Sorry for the tirade, but I'm still peeved with the thing !!

....bobp

-----------------------------orig.---------------------------------------
At 08:22 PM 11/2/00 EST, you wrote:

OK, old cowling verse new cowling for those of us who have still to decide
and order a cowling. Which cowling do you prefer, and why? I've heard ease

of

maintenance, and know the prop spacer and C of G for the old cowling. The

new

cowling gets marks for looks and better visibility (well, on second

thought,

looks might be a personal preference). Lets not forget cost. Is it worth

it?

Bruce G 357R
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[Bob Patterson]

Sorry Wayne !!

I wasn't meaning that there was anything wrong with your
installation !! In fact, because you did <such> a good job of making
the sides flush by hiding the hinge completely, it looks great,
but is very hard to get the wires in from the back....
and, if you hadn't <added> that oil filler door, I would REALLY
have been unhappy with the cowling !! You did as much as possible
to make it functional - It's just that the design of these fibreglass
cowls is REALLY poor for easy maintenance.

There just HAS to be a better way !! ( Dave Fife - I think
I hear opportuntity knocking again !! ;-) ;-) )

I was pleased to see that the cowling on the Super Rebel
was designed so that the wires DO go in from the back, and can be
locked in place by wrapping them around the cowling retaining screws !

......bobp

--------------------------orig.---------------------------------------
At 12:35 PM 11/3/00 -0500, you wrote:

GEE, THANKS BRIAN! Is this beat up Wayne week or what?

Bob's P's cowling <CAN> be removed in less than 10 minutes unless he is a
really slow screw'er. (although that <CAN> sometimes be a good thing!) Bob's
cowling is quicker to remove than Howard's (with his requested camlocks to
keep in order when removed on each side, instead of the piano wire) and I
can take Howard's off (top and bottom) in less than 10 minutes. I think
maybe Bob was just having one of those "bad days" and got carried away while
typing his "tirade"!

The speed cowling is <DEFINITELY> not as easy to do quick maintenance checks
though, especially over the water, as no matter how you attach the cowl
there will be screws (or clips, or camlocks) to drop into the lake (unless
as Bob says, you cut some large doors in the fiberglass cowl halves instead,
besides the OPTIONAL oil access door I installed on his). The bottom,
firewall area, screws are the worst and the ones that are most likely to go
"plunk" in the lake! Howard slings a tarp between the floats to work at the
dock! Maybe that is why he didn't bother pulling his cowling to find that
his carburetor was falling apart!!!!!! Personally, I will <NEVER, NEVER,
NEVER> install another Speed Cowling on a Rebel, unless specifically
requested by the customer, as I don't have any cheese left for any more
whine!

Regards,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

----- Original Message -----
From: "rebelair" <rebelair@idirect.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2000 11:27 AM
Subject: RE: 0 320 engine mounts / cowling

Bob

It sounds like somebody did a substandard job of your cowl installation.

I

can well understand why you are so upset. I would not be happy either.

If properly done, the cowl can be removed & replaced in under 10 minutes
revealing the entire engine. (I did not use the piano hinge technique as
you know because I thought it would lead to difficulties in removing the
cowling, and, therefore, it probably would not get done too often. The
hinge pin I'm sure would be just fine if it goes straight in and out, but

on

the speed cowling, the pin has to curve substantially at the nose, and,

that

looked like trouble). Maintainability is crucial. If you do it right

with

the speed cowling, you can achieve this. Obviously, yours was not done
right.

The cowl installation does take a fair bit of work to bring it to this

point

but the results to me are well worth it. The forward/downward visibility
are the best on any aircraft I've ever flown.

Bob, are you thinking of getting rid of the speed cowling when you change
your prop out to a Warp Drive or whatever? Obviously that would be the
ideal time.

BTW, my exhaust system cost the same as Ron Barber's who has the standard
cowling. He had to buy 3 exhaust systems. I only had to buy one and it

fit

properly right off the bat. The spacer cost $190 I think but I don't know
the difference in cost from the small spinner to the 13" one used for the
speed cowling. Ron also bought 2 spinners as the first one departed the
aircraft in flight.

Bob, are you saying that the new Sensenich prop on your 0320 aircraft has

a

1/4" gouge in it now? If that is true, you have great reason to be upset.
Sorry to hear that. Can this be cleaned up by a prop guy?

Anything I can do to help?

Regards

Brian #328R

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patterson [mailto:bob.patterson@canrem.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2000 9:30 PM
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List
Subject: 0 320 engine mounts / cowling



You've REALLY hit a sore spot for me !! I <REALLY> don't
like the "speed cowl" (which does NOTHING for speed !) - it's a
REAL pig for maintenance, especially on floats !! Where do you
put this huge sail that will sink if you drop it ???!!!

I'm particularly burned, because the cowl wires (that were
even bent around the lip of the cowl !) came forward and chewed
great huge chunks (1/4" square !) out of my prop !!!!! The shape
of the speed cowl forces them forward if vibrated.... And that
was a brand-new $3,000 prop !!! Not to mention the mess I'd have
been in if it hadn't happened on short final !!

NEVER had a problem with the wires on any of our other 3
Rebels ! Or ANY Rebel I've ever flown with the 'standard' cowl.
Of course, this <could> be avoided <IF> I came up with a sure-fire
solid, guaranteed way to hold those wires in place that would
still let me get them out easily !

Also, you can't really do a proper preflight with the ^%$^%$%^
thing - just peer in through the oil filler flap !

In terms of cost - add about $2,000 for that sexy cowl !!
Add it up - cowl, special prop spacer, special spinner, special
exhaust .... $$$$ !!!!

If you do the 'standard' cowl, you can put the side braces
on horizontally, add piano hinges top & bottom, and .... just pull
2 pins and swing open the top & bottom of the cowling !!

If you're concerned about looks - a Rebel builder in Australia
used a Thorp T-18 nose bowl from Aircraft Spruce (about $85), and
it looked pretty sexy ....

I was SO mad at this cowling, I'd have traded ANYBODY for
2 cents !! I just wanted to put a little tape over the oil cooler
inlet to raise my temps a bit (it's getting cold here !) - Only
takes an HOUR !! Pull the pins (bending carefully), undo a bunch
of screws, lift and place SOMEWHERE .... GGGRRRRRRRRRR !!!

I'm still threatening to take a hacksaw to it, and carve
out some decent side panels, with piano hinges !! You can KEEP
'sexy' - give me MAINTAINABILITY !!!!!

Sorry for the tirade, but I'm still peeved with the thing !!

....bobp

-----------------------------orig.---------------------------------------
At 08:22 PM 11/2/00 EST, you wrote:

OK, old cowling verse new cowling for those of us who have still to

decide

and order a cowling. Which cowling do you prefer, and why? I've heard

ease

of

maintenance, and know the prop spacer and C of G for the old cowling. The

new

cowling gets marks for looks and better visibility (well, on second

thought,

looks might be a personal preference). Lets not forget cost. Is it worth

it?

Bruce G 357R

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[David Ricker]

Wayne, group

All this discussion on wires & cowlings has me curious about doing it differently as
Wayne has referred to, presumably with 1/4 turn fasteners. What are the options and what
are the issues when using 1/4 turn fasteners (like reinforcing the cowl for the "point
loading" of the fasteners etc).

Wayne, you mention camlocks, by the way you speak they are not the captive sort like the
DZUS I have seen in some applications, why not? I presume the camlocks you are speaking
of are the spring loaded 1/4 turns built into a sort of barrel.

Dave R.



Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:

GEE, THANKS BRIAN! Is this beat up Wayne week or what?

Bob's P's cowling <CAN> be removed in less than 10 minutes unless he is a
really slow screw'er. (although that <CAN> sometimes be a good thing!) Bob's
cowling is quicker to remove than Howard's (with his requested camlocks to
keep in order when removed on each side, instead of the piano wire) and I
can take Howard's off (top and bottom) in less than 10 minutes. I think
maybe Bob was just having one of those "bad days" and got carried away while
typing his "tirade"!

The speed cowling is <DEFINITELY> not as easy to do quick maintenance checks
though, especially over the water, as no matter how you attach the cowl
there will be screws (or clips, or camlocks) to drop into the lake (unless
as Bob says, you cut some large doors in the fiberglass cowl halves instead,
besides the OPTIONAL oil access door I installed on his). The bottom,
firewall area, screws are the worst and the ones that are most likely to go
"plunk" in the lake! Howard slings a tarp between the floats to work at the
dock! Maybe that is why he didn't bother pulling his cowling to find that
his carburetor was falling apart!!!!!! Personally, I will <NEVER, NEVER,
NEVER> install another Speed Cowling on a Rebel, unless specifically
requested by the customer, as I don't have any cheese left for any more
whine!

Regards,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

----- Original Message -----
From: "rebelair" <rebelair@idirect.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2000 11:27 AM
Subject: RE: 0 320 engine mounts / cowling

Bob

It sounds like somebody did a substandard job of your cowl installation.

I

can well understand why you are so upset. I would not be happy either.

If properly done, the cowl can be removed & replaced in under 10 minutes
revealing the entire engine. (I did not use the piano hinge technique as
you know because I thought it would lead to difficulties in removing the
cowling, and, therefore, it probably would not get done too often. The
hinge pin I'm sure would be just fine if it goes straight in and out, but

on

the speed cowling, the pin has to curve substantially at the nose, and,

that

looked like trouble). Maintainability is crucial. If you do it right

with

the speed cowling, you can achieve this. Obviously, yours was not done
right.

The cowl installation does take a fair bit of work to bring it to this

point

but the results to me are well worth it. The forward/downward visibility
are the best on any aircraft I've ever flown.

Bob, are you thinking of getting rid of the speed cowling when you change
your prop out to a Warp Drive or whatever? Obviously that would be the
ideal time.

BTW, my exhaust system cost the same as Ron Barber's who has the standard
cowling. He had to buy 3 exhaust systems. I only had to buy one and it

fit

properly right off the bat. The spacer cost $190 I think but I don't know
the difference in cost from the small spinner to the 13" one used for the
speed cowling. Ron also bought 2 spinners as the first one departed the
aircraft in flight.

Bob, are you saying that the new Sensenich prop on your 0320 aircraft has

a

1/4" gouge in it now? If that is true, you have great reason to be upset.
Sorry to hear that. Can this be cleaned up by a prop guy?

Anything I can do to help?

Regards

Brian #328R

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patterson [mailto:bob.patterson@canrem.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2000 9:30 PM
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List
Subject: 0 320 engine mounts / cowling



You've REALLY hit a sore spot for me !! I <REALLY> don't
like the "speed cowl" (which does NOTHING for speed !) - it's a
REAL pig for maintenance, especially on floats !! Where do you
put this huge sail that will sink if you drop it ???!!!

I'm particularly burned, because the cowl wires (that were
even bent around the lip of the cowl !) came forward and chewed
great huge chunks (1/4" square !) out of my prop !!!!! The shape
of the speed cowl forces them forward if vibrated.... And that
was a brand-new $3,000 prop !!! Not to mention the mess I'd have
been in if it hadn't happened on short final !!

NEVER had a problem with the wires on any of our other 3
Rebels ! Or ANY Rebel I've ever flown with the 'standard' cowl.
Of course, this <could> be avoided <IF> I came up with a sure-fire
solid, guaranteed way to hold those wires in place that would
still let me get them out easily !

Also, you can't really do a proper preflight with the ^%$^%$%^
thing - just peer in through the oil filler flap !

In terms of cost - add about $2,000 for that sexy cowl !!
Add it up - cowl, special prop spacer, special spinner, special
exhaust .... $$$$ !!!!

If you do the 'standard' cowl, you can put the side braces
on horizontally, add piano hinges top & bottom, and .... just pull
2 pins and swing open the top & bottom of the cowling !!

If you're concerned about looks - a Rebel builder in Australia
used a Thorp T-18 nose bowl from Aircraft Spruce (about $85), and
it looked pretty sexy ....

I was SO mad at this cowling, I'd have traded ANYBODY for
2 cents !! I just wanted to put a little tape over the oil cooler
inlet to raise my temps a bit (it's getting cold here !) - Only
takes an HOUR !! Pull the pins (bending carefully), undo a bunch
of screws, lift and place SOMEWHERE .... GGGRRRRRRRRRR !!!

I'm still threatening to take a hacksaw to it, and carve
out some decent side panels, with piano hinges !! You can KEEP
'sexy' - give me MAINTAINABILITY !!!!!

Sorry for the tirade, but I'm still peeved with the thing !!

....bobp

-----------------------------orig.---------------------------------------
At 08:22 PM 11/2/00 EST, you wrote:

OK, old cowling verse new cowling for those of us who have still to

decide

and order a cowling. Which cowling do you prefer, and why? I've heard

ease

of

maintenance, and know the prop spacer and C of G for the old cowling. The

new

cowling gets marks for looks and better visibility (well, on second

thought,

looks might be a personal preference). Lets not forget cost. Is it worth

it?

Bruce G 357R

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--
David A. Ricker P. Eng.
DARTEC Engineering Inc.
3 Tamarac Drive
Fall River, Nova Scotia
Canada, B2T 1E8
ricker@dbis.ns.ca
Ph. 902-860-0256


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[Legeorgen]

WOW Bob! Sorry I brought it up. That was quit a colorful tirade. I just
wanted to get some opinions on the subject since I've never even seen a
cowling up close and personal.

I did see Dave Bangle remove his cowl at an EAA/MAM meeting but I remember
him setting it on the ground. I gather from you, that the old cowl opens on a
piano hinge and the speed cowl must be removed and laid down like on my
Kitfox. I would much prefer hinged. Ease of maintenance is also a big plus.

I need to find some Rebels to look at, open, view, play with and compare.
Thanks for the input Bob.

Bruce G 357R

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[Legeorgen]

Bob,

More on the cowling. I didn't realize the speed cowl needed special prop
spacers, exhausts and the like. Two grand? Was that Canadian or US?

Bruce G 357R
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[Legeorgen]

Hi Dave,

I've been hearing from builders about you're wing tips. Can you email me some
pictures with prices and things?

Bruce G 357R
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[Legeorgen]

Dave,

Those are the type of camlocks installed on a Kitfox. There is no reinforcing
of the fiberglass and they are self contained with no loose parts. You undo
the locks with a quarter turn, remove the cowling and set it down. They work
quit well but can snag and can be difficult to release some times. Myself...
I would prefer a hinge so the cowling stayed with the plane.

Bruce G 357R
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[rebelair]

Hi Wayne

I was not trying to hurl abuse your way! Bob seemed so unhappy with his
setup that I never thought for a moment that you had a hand in it. I guess
he wrote that on a bad day as you say!

My Rebel is on wheels as you know so I have not been concerned with the
issues you pointed out. Your points are good ones. I guess the question is
on cowlings whether or not you are on wheels or water. I would not trade
the forward visibility for of the speed cowling. Removing the cowling is a
non issue for me, and, yes, I like the look of the airplane with this cowl.
Again, that is the beauty of homebuilding, build it the way you like it.

Brian #328R

PS Now that I have really ticked you off, it is about time for me to buzz
your field!

-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne G. O'Shea [mailto:oifa@irishfield.on.ca]
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2000 12:36 PM
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List
Subject: Re: 0 320 engine mounts / cowling


GEE, THANKS BRIAN! Is this beat up Wayne week or what?

Bob's P's cowling <CAN> be removed in less than 10 minutes unless he is a
really slow screw'er. (although that <CAN> sometimes be a good thing!) Bob's
cowling is quicker to remove than Howard's (with his requested camlocks to
keep in order when removed on each side, instead of the piano wire) and I
can take Howard's off (top and bottom) in less than 10 minutes. I think
maybe Bob was just having one of those "bad days" and got carried away while
typing his "tirade"!

The speed cowling is <DEFINITELY> not as easy to do quick maintenance checks
though, especially over the water, as no matter how you attach the cowl
there will be screws (or clips, or camlocks) to drop into the lake (unless
as Bob says, you cut some large doors in the fiberglass cowl halves instead,
besides the OPTIONAL oil access door I installed on his). The bottom,
firewall area, screws are the worst and the ones that are most likely to go
"plunk" in the lake! Howard slings a tarp between the floats to work at the
dock! Maybe that is why he didn't bother pulling his cowling to find that
his carburetor was falling apart!!!!!! Personally, I will <NEVER, NEVER,
NEVER> install another Speed Cowling on a Rebel, unless specifically
requested by the customer, as I don't have any cheese left for any more
whine!

Regards,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

----- Original Message -----
From: "rebelair" <rebelair@idirect.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2000 11:27 AM
Subject: RE: 0 320 engine mounts / cowling

Bob

It sounds like somebody did a substandard job of your cowl installation.

I

can well understand why you are so upset. I would not be happy either.

If properly done, the cowl can be removed & replaced in under 10 minutes
revealing the entire engine. (I did not use the piano hinge technique as
you know because I thought it would lead to difficulties in removing the
cowling, and, therefore, it probably would not get done too often. The
hinge pin I'm sure would be just fine if it goes straight in and out, but

on

the speed cowling, the pin has to curve substantially at the nose, and,

that

looked like trouble). Maintainability is crucial. If you do it right

with

the speed cowling, you can achieve this. Obviously, yours was not done
right.

The cowl installation does take a fair bit of work to bring it to this

point

but the results to me are well worth it. The forward/downward visibility
are the best on any aircraft I've ever flown.

Bob, are you thinking of getting rid of the speed cowling when you change
your prop out to a Warp Drive or whatever? Obviously that would be the
ideal time.

BTW, my exhaust system cost the same as Ron Barber's who has the standard
cowling. He had to buy 3 exhaust systems. I only had to buy one and it

fit

properly right off the bat. The spacer cost $190 I think but I don't know
the difference in cost from the small spinner to the 13" one used for the

speed cowling. Ron also bought 2 spinners as the first one departed the
aircraft in flight.

Bob, are you saying that the new Sensenich prop on your 0320 aircraft has

a

1/4" gouge in it now? If that is true, you have great reason to be upset.
Sorry to hear that. Can this be cleaned up by a prop guy?

Anything I can do to help?

Regards

Brian #328R

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patterson [mailto:bob.patterson@canrem.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2000 9:30 PM
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List
Subject: 0 320 engine mounts / cowling



You've REALLY hit a sore spot for me !! I <REALLY> don't
like the "speed cowl" (which does NOTHING for speed !) - it's a
REAL pig for maintenance, especially on floats !! Where do you
put this huge sail that will sink if you drop it ???!!!

I'm particularly burned, because the cowl wires (that were
even bent around the lip of the cowl !) came forward and chewed
great huge chunks (1/4" square !) out of my prop !!!!! The shape
of the speed cowl forces them forward if vibrated.... And that
was a brand-new $3,000 prop !!! Not to mention the mess I'd have
been in if it hadn't happened on short final !!

NEVER had a problem with the wires on any of our other 3
Rebels ! Or ANY Rebel I've ever flown with the 'standard' cowl.
Of course, this <could> be avoided <IF> I came up with a sure-fire
solid, guaranteed way to hold those wires in place that would
still let me get them out easily !

Also, you can't really do a proper preflight with the ^%$^%$%^
thing - just peer in through the oil filler flap !

In terms of cost - add about $2,000 for that sexy cowl !!
Add it up - cowl, special prop spacer, special spinner, special
exhaust .... $$$$ !!!!

If you do the 'standard' cowl, you can put the side braces
on horizontally, add piano hinges top & bottom, and .... just pull
2 pins and swing open the top & bottom of the cowling !!

If you're concerned about looks - a Rebel builder in Australia
used a Thorp T-18 nose bowl from Aircraft Spruce (about $85), and
it looked pretty sexy ....

I was SO mad at this cowling, I'd have traded ANYBODY for
2 cents !! I just wanted to put a little tape over the oil cooler
inlet to raise my temps a bit (it's getting cold here !) - Only
takes an HOUR !! Pull the pins (bending carefully), undo a bunch
of screws, lift and place SOMEWHERE .... GGGRRRRRRRRRR !!!

I'm still threatening to take a hacksaw to it, and carve
out some decent side panels, with piano hinges !! You can KEEP
'sexy' - give me MAINTAINABILITY !!!!!

Sorry for the tirade, but I'm still peeved with the thing !!

....bobp

-----------------------------orig.---------------------------------------
At 08:22 PM 11/2/00 EST, you wrote:

OK, old cowling verse new cowling for those of us who have still to

decide

and order a cowling. Which cowling do you prefer, and why? I've heard

ease

of

maintenance, and know the prop spacer and C of G for the old cowling. The

new

cowling gets marks for looks and better visibility (well, on second

thought,

looks might be a personal preference). Lets not forget cost. Is it worth

it?

Bruce G 357R

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[Bob Patterson]

Not sure of current figures, but it WAS about $2,000 CDN ...

....bobp

-------------------------------orig.----------------------------------
At 10:20 PM 11/3/00 EST, you wrote:

Bob,

More on the cowling. I didn't realize the speed cowl needed special prop
spacers, exhausts and the like. Two grand? Was that Canadian or US?

Bruce G 357R
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