Windshield Installation

[Drew and Jan]

On my plane I used the metal retainers on the top and sides without
drilling the windshield. So far I've got no leaks and the windshield hasn't
started to bow out at the sides like some rebels with fiberglass retainers.
You didn't say which windshield you're using. I bought the formed window
upgrade that probably comes with the new kits. Hope this helps.
Drew Dalgleish

At 04:07 PM 10/14/00 -0230, you wrote:

I actually began preparing (trimming, drilling holes and cutting
retainer strips) for my windshield a couple of years ago. Since then,
as we all know, Murphy has revised their windshield installation
procedure which advises against drilling holes into the windshield and
making fiberglass retainer strips all around. Well, now I've completed
the lower fiberglass trim piece and have drilled out the lower flange
for 1/8 rivets but I thought not to drill any more holes into the
windshield and upper flange of the trim piece. I wonder if this would
now cause more stress on windshield since I've already drilled the top
and sides. Perhaps I should continue on with the old procedure and drill
all of the holes. I don't enjoy working with fiberglass and the thought
of making up three more fiberglass retainers is 'stomach turning'. Glad
I'm building a metal airplane!
Thanks.
Clay


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[Clay Smith]

I actually began preparing (trimming, drilling holes and cutting
retainer strips) for my windshield a couple of years ago. Since then,
as we all know, Murphy has revised their windshield installation
procedure which advises against drilling holes into the windshield and
making fiberglass retainer strips all around. Well, now I've completed
the lower fiberglass trim piece and have drilled out the lower flange
for 1/8 rivets but I thought not to drill any more holes into the
windshield and upper flange of the trim piece. I wonder if this would
now cause more stress on windshield since I've already drilled the top
and sides. Perhaps I should continue on with the old procedure and drill
all of the holes. I don't enjoy working with fiberglass and the thought
of making up three more fiberglass retainers is 'stomach turning'. Glad
I'm building a metal airplane!
Thanks.
Clay


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between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
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[Clay Smith]

Any advice on sealing the windshield to the fuselage ? I have the thin
self adhesive strip (about 1"wide) from MAM but I'm considering using
some extra sealant.
Thanks,

Clay



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[Scott Aldrich]

The Dow Corning RTV 732 (black, white or clear)using a caulk gun works well.

Scott
Moose 174

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Clay
Smith
Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2004 12:51 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Windshield Installation

Any advice on sealing the windshield to the fuselage ? I have the thin
self adhesive strip (about 1"wide) from MAM but I'm considering using
some extra sealant.
Thanks,

Clay



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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

I prefer the tape Clay to anything else! Full one inch..keeping it down
about 1/8" below the retainer edge..for the bottom retainer and if using the
bolt on alum edges and top I cut the strip in half lengthwise for these
areas. Much cleaner to work with and once installed face the airplane into
the sun for the day..get inside and push put against the bottom edge of the
windshield for a good bond and to squeeze the tape and it will expand to
fill that gap you left. Over time you will even need to peel bits off that
the sun has oozed out.

If you do chose to use the caulking gun...be careful not to drag it along
the window while trying to fill between the retainer and the windshield. The
metal edge of the gun will leave a nasty mark about 2" up from the retainer
in the acyrlic and boy it don't come out. I should say don't ask how I know,
but I have a customer that got a second new windshield in his 701 thanks to
that!(and unfortunately you have to pull the wings a second time to do that
as well!! :o( ....and there's no profit in that! )

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Clay Smith" <cbsmith@nf.sympatico.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2004 2:50 PM
Subject: Windshield Installation

Any advice on sealing the windshield to the fuselage ? I have the thin
self adhesive strip (about 1"wide) from MAM but I'm considering using
some extra sealant.
Thanks,

Clay



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[Murray & Carol Cherkas]

I used a polyurethane caulking. No problem so far. Almost as bad as using
pro-seal. Keep things clean and you'll be alright.

Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Clay Smith
Sent: September 5, 2004 12:51 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Windshield Installation


Any advice on sealing the windshield to the fuselage ? I have the thin
self adhesive strip (about 1"wide) from MAM but I'm considering using
some extra sealant.
Thanks,

Clay



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[Ken]

I once mentioned that a representative of LP plastics who make the
windshield wouldn't endorse the use of butyl rubber based strip caulk in
a one on one conversation which seemed odd to me. Since that time I've
observed a fair bit of what looks similar to stress cracking in acrylic
skylight panels under (and only under) butyl caulk that was in place 10
to 15 years. No similar cracking in panels that were sealed with
silicone caulk (the +/- 50% flexing stuff that does not smell like
vinegar) for a similar period. And sure enough, the last batch of
acrylic panels that I purchased from CYRO have a warning on them to not
use butyl caulk.but does recommend some specific silicones. So FWIW I
guess I hope to avoid using any black butyl sealant on my windshield.
Silicone adheres much more strongly, is harder to remove, and may stress
a windshield more as the fuselage flexes so it may not be a better
solution - I'm just passing on an observation.... Unless I get a better
idea I will try it though but use as little as possible. I have no
experience with polyurethanes on acrylic.
Ken

Murray & Carol Cherkas wrote:

I used a polyurethane caulking. No problem so far. Almost as bad as using
pro-seal. Keep things clean and you'll be alright.

Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Clay Smith
Sent: September 5, 2004 12:51 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Windshield Installation


Any advice on sealing the windshield to the fuselage ? I have the thin
self adhesive strip (about 1"wide) from MAM but I'm considering using
some extra sealant.
Thanks,

Clay

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[Bob Patterson]

Hi Ken !

I visited with LP at Oshkosh - they still sell, and recommend,
Bostick 1100 adhesive, in caulking-gun tubes, for windshield
installations. I've had good luck with it - it has a low tack, and
stays flexible for years .... and it comes in black, white, and
gray, (and possibly other colours). Readily available from
hardware suppliers.

They mentioned a possible width change of over 1/4" for
a windshield - summer to winter !!

......bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Thursday 09 September 2004 11:08 am, Ken wrote:

I once mentioned that a representative of LP plastics who make the
windshield wouldn't endorse the use of butyl rubber based strip caulk in
a one on one conversation which seemed odd to me. Since that time I've
observed a fair bit of what looks similar to stress cracking in acrylic
skylight panels under (and only under) butyl caulk that was in place 10
to 15 years. No similar cracking in panels that were sealed with
silicone caulk (the +/- 50% flexing stuff that does not smell like
vinegar) for a similar period. And sure enough, the last batch of
acrylic panels that I purchased from CYRO have a warning on them to not
use butyl caulk.but does recommend some specific silicones. So FWIW I
guess I hope to avoid using any black butyl sealant on my windshield.
Silicone adheres much more strongly, is harder to remove, and may stress
a windshield more as the fuselage flexes so it may not be a better
solution - I'm just passing on an observation.... Unless I get a better
idea I will try it though but use as little as possible. I have no
experience with polyurethanes on acrylic.
Ken

Murray & Carol Cherkas wrote:

I used a polyurethane caulking. No problem so far. Almost as bad as using
pro-seal. Keep things clean and you'll be alright.

Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Clay Smith
Sent: September 5, 2004 12:51 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Windshield Installation


Any advice on sealing the windshield to the fuselage ? I have the thin
self adhesive strip (about 1"wide) from MAM but I'm considering using
some extra sealant.
Thanks,

Clay

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[Drew Dalgleish]

That makes good sense Ken. I think the butyl strips continue moving forever
so eventually there's nothing left in places allowing direct contact with
the aluminum and possible stress risers where cracks could form. I used the
strips along the sides and top of my windsheild and I'm not pleased with
the way it's oozed out along the roof under the windsheild where I can't
clean it up. On the bottom I used a urethane caulking that's for car
windsheids it's available at any parts supplier and if I remember correctly
it was reccommended on a brief instruction sheet that came in the box with
the windsheild. If I ever need to reinstal mine I'll use that stuff all the
way around.


At 11:08 AM 9/9/2004 -0400, you wrote:

I once mentioned that a representative of LP plastics who make the
windshield wouldn't endorse the use of butyl rubber based strip caulk in
a one on one conversation which seemed odd to me. Since that time I've
observed a fair bit of what looks similar to stress cracking in acrylic
skylight panels under (and only under) butyl caulk that was in place 10
to 15 years. No similar cracking in panels that were sealed with
silicone caulk (the +/- 50% flexing stuff that does not smell like
vinegar) for a similar period. And sure enough, the last batch of
acrylic panels that I purchased from CYRO have a warning on them to not
use butyl caulk.but does recommend some specific silicones. So FWIW I
guess I hope to avoid using any black butyl sealant on my windshield.
Silicone adheres much more strongly, is harder to remove, and may stress
a windshield more as the fuselage flexes so it may not be a better
solution - I'm just passing on an observation.... Unless I get a better
idea I will try it though but use as little as possible. I have no
experience with polyurethanes on acrylic.
Ken

Murray & Carol Cherkas wrote:

I used a polyurethane caulking. No problem so far. Almost as bad as using
pro-seal. Keep things clean and you'll be alright.

Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Clay Smith
Sent: September 5, 2004 12:51 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Windshield Installation


Any advice on sealing the windshield to the fuselage ? I have the thin
self adhesive strip (about 1"wide) from MAM but I'm considering using
some extra sealant.
Thanks,

Clay

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Drew





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[Ken]

Yup 1/16 inch per foot expansion is the number I use and the windshield
is about 4 feet wide. Acrylic (and lexan) expands several times more
than glass (or aluminum) for the same temperature change.

I'm amazed at how little info I can find on bostick 1100 on the web but
I did find two references that indicated that it is indeed a
polyurethane. Anything that has no info on the web is usually difficult
to obtain but I'll look around.

Ken

Bob Patterson wrote:

Hi Ken !

I visited with LP at Oshkosh - they still sell, and recommend,
Bostick 1100 adhesive, in caulking-gun tubes, for windshield
installations. I've had good luck with it - it has a low tack, and
stays flexible for years .... and it comes in black, white, and
gray, (and possibly other colours). Readily available from
hardware suppliers.

They mentioned a possible width change of over 1/4" for
a windshield - summer to winter !!

......bobp

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