vortex generators

[Garry Wright]

Following up on the earlier thread, I now have the Harrison Design VG's
on FOKM - main wing only. FOKM is on wheels so results apply slightly
differently from what Walter found but ..

Stall - clean without 39 mph IAS
- clean with vg's 29 mph IAS

I really don't have much idea what the TAS is but there is a very real
difference in stall speed - weight was about 1400#. DA at the time was
approx 7500' ASL.

Slow flight stability is noticeably better than without the vg's. Less
of the sloppiness in aileron response that one gets just above the
stall.

The real proof of the pudding comes on landing slow and short. When I
touched down I used all of the lift available from the vg's and my
touchdown speed was noticeably slower than without vg's. The tires
hardly squealed at all and the rollout was so short I felt a little
silly taxiing down the rest of the runway to clear via the taxiway at
the other end. It felt like a bicycle could easily keep up with the
plane at touchdown. I also had light gusting crosswinds (10 knots) which
were much easier to handle than formerly.

My setup is 48 per side, 3 inch spacing, centered 7" back of leading
edge which is virtually identical to Walter's arrangement I think. My 7"
back is with the tails of the vg's butting against the 3rd rivit line.

The only disadvantage is cleaning the wing in the winter. I don't plan
on much of that so would do this again on any other Rebel.

Garry

BTW - thanks for the tip Walter.




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[skytrucks]

Hi Everyone;
????????? 2 or 3 years ago I bought 2 sets of VG's each from a different company so I could compare them. I put one set on my Super Rebel, they recomended putting them back about 5.5 inches from leading edge. This is between the second and third row of rivets. ?Now I am going to put the other set on my Moose before we paint the wings. This company said put them between the first and second row of rivets, that would be about 3 inches back. What do you guys suggest for the placement for the best performance.
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Thanks;
?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Larry Luckinbill
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Super Rebel 013
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Moose 117







-----Original Message-----
From: rebel-builders-d digest <rebel-builders-d@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders-d@dcsol.com
Sent: Thu, 1 May 2008 6:00 pm
Subject: [rebel-builders-d] DIGEST - rebel-builders-d



Digest of list: rebel-builders-d Total messages in digest: 2

1 Date : Wed, 30 Apr 2008 20:42:58 -0800
From : snowyrvr@mtaonline.net
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Rebel Builders

2 Date : Thu, 01 May 2008 06:29:43 -0700
From : walter.klatt@shaw.ca
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Rebel Builders


---------- Digest Message #1 ----------
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 20:42:58 -0800
From: snowyrvr@mtaonline.net
To: rebel-builders
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Rebel Builders

Walter,

We have planned our trip and we will arrive in Vancouver August 4th at 5 pm
and leave August 7th at 6 pm. We're staying at a Best Western in Chiliwack.

I hope it works out so we can meet up. We'd love to meet you and see your
plane. Craig


-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Walter
Klatt
Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 5:14 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Rebel Builders

Craig, I live in the area, and keep my plane at Langley. When you get closer
to July let me know. Depending on when in July, I may not be around, though.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Craig
Walls
Sent: April 25, 2008 8:54 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] Rebel Builders

Are there any rebel builders/flyers in the Chiliwack area? We are thinking
about going through there on our way to San Fran Freako in July. I'd like
to get a ride in a rebel at the factory. Craig





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---------- Digest Message #2 ----------
Date: Thu, 01 May 2008 06:29:43 -0700
From: walter.klatt@shaw.ca
To: rebel-builders
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Rebel Builders

I think I will be around then so that should work out. Keep in touch.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Craig
Walls
Sent: April 30, 2008 9:43 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Rebel Builders

Walter,

We have planned our trip and we will arrive in Vancouver August 4th at 5 pm
and leave August 7th at 6 pm. We're staying at a Best Western in Chiliwack.

I hope it works out so we can meet up. We'd love to meet you and see your
plane. Craig


-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Walter
Klatt
Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 5:14 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Rebel Builders

Craig, I live in the area, and keep my plane at Langley. When you get closer
to July let me know. Depending on when in July, I may not be around, though.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Craig
Walls
Sent: April 25, 2008 8:54 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] Rebel Builders

Are there any rebel builders/flyers in the Chiliwack area? We are thinking
about going through there on our way to San Fran Freako in July. I'd like
to get a ride in a rebel at the factory. Craig





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[John Peterson]

Okay, after all the info on these things, I think I am going to put them on my amphib.
Anyone know the best one for the best price - Canadian thing, always want a deal eh!!
Thanks
Also for anyone with the Prince Prop - works great on my amphib but I would suggest after talking to Lonnie Prince that a leading edge protector is a good idea. Got one from ACS for about $60 - seems to do the trick.


John Peterson



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[Dale Kilbey]

----- HI
Does anyone remember what %cord that the vg's are at? The reason I am asking
is that someone mentioned conflict with rivets on an elite wing. I laid out
the pattern for the system I am using and found no conflict with rivets.
Dale




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[Mike Davis]

For you new folks out there, please address your list posts to rebel-builders@dcsol.com... not to mike.davis@dcsol.com.


I installed VG,s on wings and tail planes but not on the vertical. I am not sure how much difference it made . Im an 0-320 160 H.P. rebel on 1800 amphibs . with an 80 inch '''' McCulley prop currently 42 pitch. but next week Im going to make it a 44 inch trying to get alittle more speed. But the airplane performs beautifly the way it is wally.



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[craig]

Someone please refresh my memory....which brand of VG's are we using on the rebel? Source? Thanks, Craig



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[Charlie Starr]

I think I posted this info some time ago - but maybe not. I put VG's on my SR-2500 (wings & horizontal stab) some months ago and found they made a remarkable difference. Prior to install, I found that I could run out of elevator during 3 point landings unless there was an aft cg. Power off stalls are practically a non-event. It simply will finally show a 500-700 fpm descent with no fall off on a wing. With power or flaps there is a break, but little fall off of a wing. Ailerons are actually somewhat effective even in a full stall. Seems to make ailerons more effective during normal flight, also.

I used the Hall Brothers VG's (double posted verticals) which are considerably less expensive than some others. They (on wings) are installed in the 10% - 12% of chord range (actually behind a stringer rivet line at about 11.2%). I experimented with several different placements and found that it is not as critical as some have stated. Very easy to install with the supplied epoxy or with the type used for granite counter tops. I believe it would take dynamite to get one off.

Only adverse effect (if you want to call it that) is that unless on speed for landings, it really tends to float - won't stall!

Charlie Starr - N96CS



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