[rebel-builders] LS1 in a Moose on behalf of Steve Bowley

Chris Hodgson · Post by **Chris Hodgson** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:26 pm

Steve,
Somehow your posting was sent to my junk box which is ironic since I am
thinking of putting an LS2 in my moose. As I don't want to bore everyone
with my questions, could I ask you about some details "off blog"? Thanks
Chris Hodgson chrishodgson@shaw.ca

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Mike
Kimball
Sent: February 15, 2008 1:51 PM
To: Rebel Builder's List
Subject: [rebel-builders] LS1 in a Moose on behalf of Steve Bowley

I have noticed some discussion regarding the LS engine in a Cessna. I saw
that when it first came out several years ago while I was building my Moose
with a LS 1. I was hoping that when my project was finished that I could
have a reliable aircraft with a cost effective, high performance engine that
would perform as well as a Moose with a M-14. I don't have many hours on
the plane yet to claim reliable, but I have enough hours to claim that the
climb performance is similar to the M14 and the cruise is 125 kts at 21
inches of manifold and 2100rpm at the prop [engine rpm 3800] burning 10-11
gal/hr of auto fuel. I only have 50 hours of flight time on the plane and
hope to get a lot more.

My firewall forward [ engine, mount, cowl, exhaust, all accesories, psru,
computer, radiator] cost $26000 plus shipping. I purchased a 3 blade MT
electric prop for $12500 because it allowed me to use the psru without a
governor and only weighed 55 pounds. The prop was pitched at the factory to
require 350HP to turn at 2500 prop rpm and 4500 engine rpm. The engine at
full throttle turns the prop at 2500rpm which means I am getting 350 HP at
take-off.

I haven't been able to measure my ground roll, but with me and 60 gal of
fuel I estimate it to be in the 350- 450 foot area. I am not too sure of
this at present, but will try to get a better measurement in the future.

My plane weighs 1906 empty. In looking at the M14 empty weights they seem
to come in at any where from 2100-2300. The empty weights for the 300HP Lyc
come in at 1850-1950. So, the concept of auto engines in the MOOSE being
too heavy don't appear to apply. No doubt this engine in a smaller airframe
may not work. At my FAA inspection, my CG came out to be exactly at the
forward limit and with any load addition, it will stay within the CG.

The cooling did present a problem intially, but with ongoing R&D I have the
temps under control. When I was flying in September with OAT of 110F, the
water temp was 200F and the oil was 210F. Now with OAT of 50-70F, the water
runs at 180F and the oil at 160. In the first 50 hours of operation I have
added 2 quarts of oil and I changed the oil at
25 hours. The first quart of oil was added because of a leak of the front
seal which was replaced at the cost of $3.00 and labor.

Presently, the plane will be VFR on wheels and no plans to use floats even
though I installed the float attach points. All the published mods have
been done to the airframe and a Dale Fultz tail spring was used. I have to
say if anybody has a opportunity to use this tail spring, I wholeheartedly
endorse it because it works great in absorbing my not so perfect landings.

I agree that if I had purchased a Lyc or Cont engine, my build time may have
been shorter and I certainly have had some unique problems while getting to
this point in this project. The problems have not been insurmountable, all
you need to continue is time and money. In spite of my problems, the use of
the LS1 and the expense of the MT prop cost me less than a new or factory
reman 300 HP Lyc or Cont engine without the accessories, mount, cowl,
governor, and prop.

I have been flying at every free moment and have modified the cowl during
the test flights, so I haven't been able to paint the cowl. Some rainy day
in Phoenix, I might have time to finish prepping and painting the cowl. I am
waiting until I get the cowl painted to send pics to the Moose website to
document that it is done.

Obviously, I don't have that magic number to prove it is reliable and would
suggest that anyone considering the same type of endeavor do their homework
thoroughly. This has been a huge project and I have made every effort to
ensure that it will be successful. Most of the joy has come with flying and
has made the many thousand of hours working evenings, weekends, and
vacations seem to be worth the time. This plane, like any plane will be
subject to continous inspections and modifications in order to keep it
airworthy. I hope that I can give the readers of this server an update in
the future, hopefully with continued success.

Steve
Moose/SR #99

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Mike Davis · Post by **Mike Davis** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:26 pm

Please... ask away. You're not the only one considering an LS2.

Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Hodgson" <chrishodgson@shaw.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 4:53 PM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] LS1 in a Moose on behalf of Steve Bowley

Steve,
Somehow your posting was sent to my junk box which is ironic since I am
thinking of putting an LS2 in my moose. As I don't want to bore everyone
with my questions, could I ask you about some details "off blog"? Thanks
Chris Hodgson chrishodgson@shaw.ca

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Mike
Kimball
Sent: February 15, 2008 1:51 PM
To: Rebel Builder's List
Subject: [rebel-builders] LS1 in a Moose on behalf of Steve Bowley

I have noticed some discussion regarding the LS engine in a Cessna. I saw
that when it first came out several years ago while I was building my
Moose
with a LS 1. I was hoping that when my project was finished that I could
have a reliable aircraft with a cost effective, high performance engine
that
would perform as well as a Moose with a M-14. I don't have many hours on
the plane yet to claim reliable, but I have enough hours to claim that the
climb performance is similar to the M14 and the cruise is 125 kts at 21
inches of manifold and 2100rpm at the prop [engine rpm 3800] burning 10-11
gal/hr of auto fuel. I only have 50 hours of flight time on the plane and
hope to get a lot more.

My firewall forward [ engine, mount, cowl, exhaust, all accesories, psru,
computer, radiator] cost $26000 plus shipping. I purchased a 3 blade MT
electric prop for $12500 because it allowed me to use the psru without a
governor and only weighed 55 pounds. The prop was pitched at the factory
to
require 350HP to turn at 2500 prop rpm and 4500 engine rpm. The engine at
full throttle turns the prop at 2500rpm which means I am getting 350 HP at
take-off.

I haven't been able to measure my ground roll, but with me and 60 gal of
fuel I estimate it to be in the 350- 450 foot area. I am not too sure of
this at present, but will try to get a better measurement in the future.

My plane weighs 1906 empty. In looking at the M14 empty weights they seem
to come in at any where from 2100-2300. The empty weights for the 300HP
Lyc
come in at 1850-1950. So, the concept of auto engines in the MOOSE being
too heavy don't appear to apply. No doubt this engine in a smaller
airframe
may not work. At my FAA inspection, my CG came out to be exactly at the
forward limit and with any load addition, it will stay within the CG.

The cooling did present a problem intially, but with ongoing R&D I have
the
temps under control. When I was flying in September with OAT of 110F, the
water temp was 200F and the oil was 210F. Now with OAT of 50-70F, the
water
runs at 180F and the oil at 160. In the first 50 hours of operation I
have
added 2 quarts of oil and I changed the oil at
25 hours. The first quart of oil was added because of a leak of the front
seal which was replaced at the cost of $3.00 and labor.

Presently, the plane will be VFR on wheels and no plans to use floats even
though I installed the float attach points. All the published mods have
been done to the airframe and a Dale Fultz tail spring was used. I have
to
say if anybody has a opportunity to use this tail spring, I wholeheartedly
endorse it because it works great in absorbing my not so perfect landings.

I agree that if I had purchased a Lyc or Cont engine, my build time may
have
been shorter and I certainly have had some unique problems while getting
to
this point in this project. The problems have not been insurmountable,
all
you need to continue is time and money. In spite of my problems, the use
of
the LS1 and the expense of the MT prop cost me less than a new or factory
reman 300 HP Lyc or Cont engine without the accessories, mount, cowl,
governor, and prop.

I have been flying at every free moment and have modified the cowl during
the test flights, so I haven't been able to paint the cowl. Some rainy
day
in Phoenix, I might have time to finish prepping and painting the cowl. I
am
waiting until I get the cowl painted to send pics to the Moose website to
document that it is done.

Obviously, I don't have that magic number to prove it is reliable and
would
suggest that anyone considering the same type of endeavor do their
homework
thoroughly. This has been a huge project and I have made every effort to
ensure that it will be successful. Most of the joy has come with flying
and
has made the many thousand of hours working evenings, weekends, and
vacations seem to be worth the time. This plane, like any plane will be
subject to continous inspections and modifications in order to keep it
airworthy. I hope that I can give the readers of this server an update in
the future, hopefully with continued success.

Steve
Moose/SR #99

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Brian · Post by **Brian** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:26 pm

I'm very interested in the LS1 information in a Moose. Please keep this
discussion on the blog.

Thanks.

Brian

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Chris
Hodgson
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 8:53 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] LS1 in a Moose on behalf of Steve Bowley

Steve,
Somehow your posting was sent to my junk box which is ironic since I am
thinking of putting an LS2 in my moose. As I don't want to bore everyone
with my questions, could I ask you about some details "off blog"? Thanks
Chris Hodgson chrishodgson@shaw.ca

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Mike
Kimball
Sent: February 15, 2008 1:51 PM
To: Rebel Builder's List
Subject: [rebel-builders] LS1 in a Moose on behalf of Steve Bowley

I have noticed some discussion regarding the LS engine in a Cessna. I saw
that when it first came out several years ago while I was building my Moose
with a LS 1. I was hoping that when my project was finished that I could
have a reliable aircraft with a cost effective, high performance engine that
would perform as well as a Moose with a M-14. I don't have many hours on
the plane yet to claim reliable, but I have enough hours to claim that the
climb performance is similar to the M14 and the cruise is 125 kts at 21
inches of manifold and 2100rpm at the prop [engine rpm 3800] burning 10-11
gal/hr of auto fuel. I only have 50 hours of flight time on the plane and
hope to get a lot more.

My firewall forward [ engine, mount, cowl, exhaust, all accesories, psru,
computer, radiator] cost $26000 plus shipping. I purchased a 3 blade MT
electric prop for $12500 because it allowed me to use the psru without a
governor and only weighed 55 pounds. The prop was pitched at the factory to
require 350HP to turn at 2500 prop rpm and 4500 engine rpm. The engine at
full throttle turns the prop at 2500rpm which means I am getting 350 HP at
take-off.

I haven't been able to measure my ground roll, but with me and 60 gal of
fuel I estimate it to be in the 350- 450 foot area. I am not too sure of
this at present, but will try to get a better measurement in the future.

My plane weighs 1906 empty. In looking at the M14 empty weights they seem
to come in at any where from 2100-2300. The empty weights for the 300HP Lyc
come in at 1850-1950. So, the concept of auto engines in the MOOSE being
too heavy don't appear to apply. No doubt this engine in a smaller airframe
may not work. At my FAA inspection, my CG came out to be exactly at the
forward limit and with any load addition, it will stay within the CG.

The cooling did present a problem intially, but with ongoing R&D I have the
temps under control. When I was flying in September with OAT of 110F, the
water temp was 200F and the oil was 210F. Now with OAT of 50-70F, the water
runs at 180F and the oil at 160. In the first 50 hours of operation I have
added 2 quarts of oil and I changed the oil at
25 hours. The first quart of oil was added because of a leak of the front
seal which was replaced at the cost of $3.00 and labor.

Presently, the plane will be VFR on wheels and no plans to use floats even
though I installed the float attach points. All the published mods have
been done to the airframe and a Dale Fultz tail spring was used. I have to
say if anybody has a opportunity to use this tail spring, I wholeheartedly
endorse it because it works great in absorbing my not so perfect landings.

I agree that if I had purchased a Lyc or Cont engine, my build time may have
been shorter and I certainly have had some unique problems while getting to
this point in this project. The problems have not been insurmountable, all
you need to continue is time and money. In spite of my problems, the use of
the LS1 and the expense of the MT prop cost me less than a new or factory
reman 300 HP Lyc or Cont engine without the accessories, mount, cowl,
governor, and prop.

I have been flying at every free moment and have modified the cowl during
the test flights, so I haven't been able to paint the cowl. Some rainy day
in Phoenix, I might have time to finish prepping and painting the cowl. I am
waiting until I get the cowl painted to send pics to the Moose website to
document that it is done.

Obviously, I don't have that magic number to prove it is reliable and would
suggest that anyone considering the same type of endeavor do their homework
thoroughly. This has been a huge project and I have made every effort to
ensure that it will be successful. Most of the joy has come with flying and
has made the many thousand of hours working evenings, weekends, and
vacations seem to be worth the time. This plane, like any plane will be
subject to continous inspections and modifications in order to keep it
airworthy. I hope that I can give the readers of this server an update in
the future, hopefully with continued success.

Steve
Moose/SR #99

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Chris Hodgson · Post by **Chris Hodgson** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:26 pm

Steve,
OK. Since there is some interest - as a background I recently purchased a partially completed Moose. I had looked at them for a number of years and had always considered using an LS series engine for all the reasons we know - high power to weight ratio, relatively inexpensive engine components, fuel flexibility etc. I had also been apprehensive for the usual reasons - unproven technology (mostly the PSRU), time and expense in doing a one off, etc. For these reasons I had planned to put in an IO540 and the consider doing a firewall forward LS while flying the plane. By chance a firewall foward LS2 came up recently on ebay (as everyone may remember) and I bought it for a good price (I hope). The PSRU is a helical geared unit and was flying in a plane for 15 hours. The project was scrapped because the airframe of the aerocomp it was in was apparently over-built by more than 1000lbs making it un-flyable.

So now I have a firewall foreward LS2 and you Steve are the first person I have been able to talk to who is flying what I think I want. I probably have a million questions but I will start with a few so I don't put you off.

How did you choose your PSRU? I looked into the chain drives by Vesta and Robinson but I have to say I was put off by Vesta when they refused to give me the names of anyone using their system.
How did you set up your cooling system? Did you set up a hot water cabin heat system with the coolant?
How did you engineer the engine mount - line of thrust etc?
Did you put in any spark plug /magneto redundancy or rely on the LS dedicated coil per cylinder? (I think I am going to stay with the LS system. I have never had a car die suddenly for ignition reasons but I once had a magneto rotor break on takeoff.)
Thanks in advance for the help,
Chris

----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Davis <mike.davis@dcsol.com>
Date: Friday, March 7, 2008 7:02 pm
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] LS1 in a Moose on behalf of Steve Bowley
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com

Please... ask away. You're not the only one considering an LS2.

Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Hodgson" <chrishodgson@shaw.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 4:53 PM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] LS1 in a Moose on behalf of Steve Bowley

Steve,
Somehow your posting was sent to my junk box which is ironic
since I am
thinking of putting an LS2 in my moose. As I don't want
to bore everyone
with my questions, could I ask you about some details "off
blog"? Thanks
Chris Hodgson chrishodgson@shaw.ca

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On
Behalf Of Mike
Kimball
Sent: February 15, 2008 1:51 PM
To: Rebel Builder's List
Subject: [rebel-builders] LS1 in a Moose on behalf of Steve Bowley

I have noticed some discussion regarding the LS engine in a
Cessna. I saw
that when it first came out several years ago while I was
building my
Moose
with a LS 1. I was hoping that when my project was
finished that I could
have a reliable aircraft with a cost effective, high
performance engine
that
would perform as well as a Moose with a M-14. I don't
have many hours on
the plane yet to claim reliable, but I have enough hours to
claim that the
climb performance is similar to the M14 and the cruise is 125
kts at 21
inches of manifold and 2100rpm at the prop [engine rpm 3800]
burning 10-11
gal/hr of auto fuel. I only have 50 hours of flight time
on the plane and
hope to get a lot more.

My firewall forward [ engine, mount, cowl, exhaust, all
accesories, psru,
computer, radiator] cost $26000 plus shipping. I
purchased a 3 blade MT
electric prop for $12500 because it allowed me to use
the psru without a
governor and only weighed 55 pounds. The prop was
pitched at the factory
to
require 350HP to turn at 2500 prop rpm and 4500 engine
rpm. The engine at
full throttle turns the prop at 2500rpm which means I am
getting 350 HP at
take-off.

I haven't been able to measure my ground roll, but with me and
60 gal of
fuel I estimate it to be in the 350- 450 foot area. I am
not too sure of
this at present, but will try to get a better measurement in
the future.
My plane weighs 1906 empty. In looking at the M14 empty
weights they seem
to come in at any where from 2100-2300. The empty
weights for the 300HP
Lyc
come in at 1850-1950. So, the concept of auto engines in
the MOOSE being
too heavy don't appear to apply. No doubt this engine in
a smaller
airframe
may not work. At my FAA inspection, my CG came out to be
exactly at the
forward limit and with any load addition, it will stay within
the CG.
The cooling did present a problem intially, but with ongoing
R&D I have
the
temps under control. When I was flying in September with
OAT of 110F, the
water temp was 200F and the oil was 210F. Now with OAT
of 50-70F, the
water
runs at 180F and the oil at 160. In the first 50 hours
of operation I
have
added 2 quarts of oil and I changed the oil at
25 hours. The first quart of oil was added because of a
leak of the front
seal which was replaced at the cost of $3.00 and labor.

Presently, the plane will be VFR on wheels and no plans to use
floats even
though I installed the float attach points. All the
published mods have
been done to the airframe and a Dale Fultz tail spring was
used. I have
to
say if anybody has a opportunity to use this tail spring, I
wholeheartedly> endorse it because it works great in absorbing
my not so perfect landings.
I agree that if I had purchased a Lyc or Cont engine, my build
time may
have
been shorter and I certainly have had some unique problems
while getting
to
this point in this project. The problems have not been
insurmountable,
all
you need to continue is time and money. In spite of my
problems, the use
of
the LS1 and the expense of the MT prop cost me less than a new
or factory
reman 300 HP Lyc or Cont engine without the accessories,
mount, cowl,
governor, and prop.

I have been flying at every free moment and have modified the
cowl during
the test flights, so I haven't been able to paint the
cowl. Some rainy
day
in Phoenix, I might have time to finish prepping and painting
the cowl. I
am
waiting until I get the cowl painted to send pics to the Moose
website to
document that it is done.

Obviously, I don't have that magic number to prove it is
reliable and
would
suggest that anyone considering the same type of endeavor do
their
homework
thoroughly. This has been a huge project and I have made
every effort to
ensure that it will be successful. Most of the joy has
come with flying
and
has made the many thousand of hours working evenings,
weekends, and
vacations seem to be worth the time. This plane, like
any plane will be
subject to continous inspections and modifications in order to
keep it
airworthy. I hope that I can give the readers of this
server an update in
the future, hopefully with continued success.

Steve
Moose/SR #99

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Mike Davis · Post by **Mike Davis** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:26 pm

If I'm think of the right motor, that PSRU was built by Rasakti... they make
turbine gear boxes, so it should be a good solid unit.

Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Hodgson" <chrishodgson@shaw.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 11:34 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] LS1 in a Moose on behalf of Steve Bowley

Steve,
OK. Since there is some interest - as a background I recently purchased a
partially completed Moose. I had looked at them for a number of years and
had always considered using an LS series engine for all the reasons we
know - high power to weight ratio, relatively inexpensive engine
components, fuel flexibility etc. I had also been apprehensive for the
usual reasons - unproven technology (mostly the PSRU), time and expense in
doing a one off, etc. For these reasons I had planned to put in an IO540
and the consider doing a firewall forward LS while flying the plane. By
chance a firewall foward LS2 came up recently on ebay (as everyone may
remember) and I bought it for a good price (I hope). The PSRU is a
helical geared unit and was flying in a plane for 15 hours. The project
was scrapped because the airframe of the aerocomp it was in was apparently
over-built by more than 1000lbs making it un-flyable.

So now I have a firewall foreward LS2 and you Steve are the first person I
have been able to talk to who is flying what I think I want. I probably
have a million questions but I will start with a few so I don't put you
off.

How did you choose your PSRU? I looked into the chain drives by Vesta and
Robinson but I have to say I was put off by Vesta when they refused to
give me the names of anyone using their system.
How did you set up your cooling system? Did you set up a hot water cabin
heat system with the coolant?
How did you engineer the engine mount - line of thrust etc?
Did you put in any spark plug /magneto redundancy or rely on the LS
dedicated coil per cylinder? (I think I am going to stay with the LS
system. I have never had a car die suddenly for ignition reasons but I
once had a magneto rotor break on takeoff.)
Thanks in advance for the help,
Chris

----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Davis <mike.davis@dcsol.com>
Date: Friday, March 7, 2008 7:02 pm
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] LS1 in a Moose on behalf of Steve Bowley
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com

Please... ask away. You're not the only one considering an LS2.

Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Hodgson" <chrishodgson@shaw.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 4:53 PM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] LS1 in a Moose on behalf of Steve Bowley

Steve,
Somehow your posting was sent to my junk box which is ironic
since I am
thinking of putting an LS2 in my moose. As I don't want
to bore everyone
with my questions, could I ask you about some details "off
blog"? Thanks
Chris Hodgson chrishodgson@shaw.ca

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On
Behalf Of Mike
Kimball
Sent: February 15, 2008 1:51 PM
To: Rebel Builder's List
Subject: [rebel-builders] LS1 in a Moose on behalf of Steve Bowley

I have noticed some discussion regarding the LS engine in a
Cessna. I saw
that when it first came out several years ago while I was
building my
Moose
with a LS 1. I was hoping that when my project was
finished that I could
have a reliable aircraft with a cost effective, high
performance engine
that
would perform as well as a Moose with a M-14. I don't
have many hours on
the plane yet to claim reliable, but I have enough hours to
claim that the
climb performance is similar to the M14 and the cruise is 125
kts at 21
inches of manifold and 2100rpm at the prop [engine rpm 3800]
burning 10-11
gal/hr of auto fuel. I only have 50 hours of flight time
on the plane and
hope to get a lot more.

My firewall forward [ engine, mount, cowl, exhaust, all
accesories, psru,
computer, radiator] cost $26000 plus shipping. I
purchased a 3 blade MT
electric prop for $12500 because it allowed me to use
the psru without a
governor and only weighed 55 pounds. The prop was
pitched at the factory
to
require 350HP to turn at 2500 prop rpm and 4500 engine
rpm. The engine at
full throttle turns the prop at 2500rpm which means I am
getting 350 HP at
take-off.

I haven't been able to measure my ground roll, but with me and
60 gal of
fuel I estimate it to be in the 350- 450 foot area. I am
not too sure of
this at present, but will try to get a better measurement in
the future.
My plane weighs 1906 empty. In looking at the M14 empty
weights they seem
to come in at any where from 2100-2300. The empty
weights for the 300HP
Lyc
come in at 1850-1950. So, the concept of auto engines in
the MOOSE being
too heavy don't appear to apply. No doubt this engine in
a smaller
airframe
may not work. At my FAA inspection, my CG came out to be
exactly at the
forward limit and with any load addition, it will stay within
the CG.
The cooling did present a problem intially, but with ongoing
R&D I have
the
temps under control. When I was flying in September with
OAT of 110F, the
water temp was 200F and the oil was 210F. Now with OAT
of 50-70F, the
water
runs at 180F and the oil at 160. In the first 50 hours
of operation I
have
added 2 quarts of oil and I changed the oil at
25 hours. The first quart of oil was added because of a
leak of the front
seal which was replaced at the cost of $3.00 and labor.

Presently, the plane will be VFR on wheels and no plans to use
floats even
though I installed the float attach points. All the
published mods have
been done to the airframe and a Dale Fultz tail spring was
used. I have
to
say if anybody has a opportunity to use this tail spring, I
wholeheartedly> endorse it because it works great in absorbing
my not so perfect landings.
I agree that if I had purchased a Lyc or Cont engine, my build
time may
have
been shorter and I certainly have had some unique problems
while getting
to
this point in this project. The problems have not been
insurmountable,
all
you need to continue is time and money. In spite of my
problems, the use
of
the LS1 and the expense of the MT prop cost me less than a new
or factory
reman 300 HP Lyc or Cont engine without the accessories,
mount, cowl,
governor, and prop.

I have been flying at every free moment and have modified the
cowl during
the test flights, so I haven't been able to paint the
cowl. Some rainy
day
in Phoenix, I might have time to finish prepping and painting
the cowl. I
am
waiting until I get the cowl painted to send pics to the Moose
website to
document that it is done.

Obviously, I don't have that magic number to prove it is
reliable and
would
suggest that anyone considering the same type of endeavor do
their
homework
thoroughly. This has been a huge project and I have made
every effort to
ensure that it will be successful. Most of the joy has
come with flying
and
has made the many thousand of hours working evenings,
weekends, and
vacations seem to be worth the time. This plane, like
any plane will be
subject to continous inspections and modifications in order to
keep it
airworthy. I hope that I can give the readers of this
server an update in
the future, hopefully with continued success.

Steve
Moose/SR #99

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Mike Kimball · Post by **Mike Kimball** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:31 pm

I can email you the information I got from MAM that gave me what I needed to
position the line of thrust properly. I'll scan it in tomorrow and upload
it to archives. I'll also email it separately to you to save you the
trouble of downloading it.

Mike
044SR

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Chris
Hodgson
Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 10:34 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] LS1 in a Moose on behalf of Steve Bowley

Steve,
OK. Since there is some interest - as a background I recently purchased a
partially completed Moose. I had looked at them for a number of years and
had always considered using an LS series engine for all the reasons we know
- high power to weight ratio, relatively inexpensive engine components, fuel
flexibility etc. I had also been apprehensive for the usual reasons -
unproven technology (mostly the PSRU), time and expense in doing a one off,
etc. For these reasons I had planned to put in an IO540 and the consider
doing a firewall forward LS while flying the plane. By chance a firewall
foward LS2 came up recently on ebay (as everyone may remember) and I bought
it for a good price (I hope). The PSRU is a helical geared unit and was
flying in a plane for 15 hours. The project was scrapped because the
airframe of the aerocomp it was in was apparently over-built by more than
1000lbs making it un-flyable.

So now I have a firewall foreward LS2 and you Steve are the first person I
have been able to talk to who is flying what I think I want. I probably
have a million questions but I will start with a few so I don't put you off.

How did you choose your PSRU? I looked into the chain drives by Vesta and
Robinson but I have to say I was put off by Vesta when they refused to give
me the names of anyone using their system.
How did you set up your cooling system? Did you set up a hot water cabin
heat system with the coolant?
How did you engineer the engine mount - line of thrust etc?
Did you put in any spark plug /magneto redundancy or rely on the LS
dedicated coil per cylinder? (I think I am going to stay with the LS system.
I have never had a car die suddenly for ignition reasons but I once had a
magneto rotor break on takeoff.)
Thanks in advance for the help,
Chris

----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Davis <mike.davis@dcsol.com>
Date: Friday, March 7, 2008 7:02 pm
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] LS1 in a Moose on behalf of Steve Bowley
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com

Please... ask away. You're not the only one considering an LS2.

Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Hodgson" <chrishodgson@shaw.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 4:53 PM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] LS1 in a Moose on behalf of Steve Bowley

Steve,
Somehow your posting was sent to my junk box which is ironic
since I am
thinking of putting an LS2 in my moose. As I don't want
to bore everyone
with my questions, could I ask you about some details "off
blog"? Thanks
Chris Hodgson chrishodgson@shaw.ca

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On
Behalf Of Mike
Kimball
Sent: February 15, 2008 1:51 PM
To: Rebel Builder's List
Subject: [rebel-builders] LS1 in a Moose on behalf of Steve Bowley

I have noticed some discussion regarding the LS engine in a
Cessna. I saw
that when it first came out several years ago while I was
building my
Moose
with a LS 1. I was hoping that when my project was
finished that I could
have a reliable aircraft with a cost effective, high
performance engine
that
would perform as well as a Moose with a M-14. I don't
have many hours on
the plane yet to claim reliable, but I have enough hours to
claim that the
climb performance is similar to the M14 and the cruise is 125
kts at 21
inches of manifold and 2100rpm at the prop [engine rpm 3800]
burning 10-11
gal/hr of auto fuel. I only have 50 hours of flight time
on the plane and
hope to get a lot more.

My firewall forward [ engine, mount, cowl, exhaust, all
accesories, psru,
computer, radiator] cost $26000 plus shipping. I
purchased a 3 blade MT
electric prop for $12500 because it allowed me to use
the psru without a
governor and only weighed 55 pounds. The prop was
pitched at the factory
to
require 350HP to turn at 2500 prop rpm and 4500 engine
rpm. The engine at
full throttle turns the prop at 2500rpm which means I am
getting 350 HP at
take-off.

I haven't been able to measure my ground roll, but with me and
60 gal of
fuel I estimate it to be in the 350- 450 foot area. I am
not too sure of
this at present, but will try to get a better measurement in
the future.
My plane weighs 1906 empty. In looking at the M14 empty
weights they seem
to come in at any where from 2100-2300. The empty
weights for the 300HP
Lyc
come in at 1850-1950. So, the concept of auto engines in
the MOOSE being
too heavy don't appear to apply. No doubt this engine in
a smaller
airframe
may not work. At my FAA inspection, my CG came out to be
exactly at the
forward limit and with any load addition, it will stay within
the CG.
The cooling did present a problem intially, but with ongoing
R&D I have
the
temps under control. When I was flying in September with
OAT of 110F, the
water temp was 200F and the oil was 210F. Now with OAT
of 50-70F, the
water
runs at 180F and the oil at 160. In the first 50 hours
of operation I
have
added 2 quarts of oil and I changed the oil at
25 hours. The first quart of oil was added because of a
leak of the front
seal which was replaced at the cost of $3.00 and labor.

Presently, the plane will be VFR on wheels and no plans to use
floats even
though I installed the float attach points. All the
published mods have
been done to the airframe and a Dale Fultz tail spring was
used. I have
to
say if anybody has a opportunity to use this tail spring, I
wholeheartedly> endorse it because it works great in absorbing
my not so perfect landings.
I agree that if I had purchased a Lyc or Cont engine, my build
time may
have
been shorter and I certainly have had some unique problems
while getting
to
this point in this project. The problems have not been
insurmountable,
all
you need to continue is time and money. In spite of my
problems, the use
of
the LS1 and the expense of the MT prop cost me less than a new
or factory
reman 300 HP Lyc or Cont engine without the accessories,
mount, cowl,
governor, and prop.

I have been flying at every free moment and have modified the
cowl during
the test flights, so I haven't been able to paint the
cowl. Some rainy
day
in Phoenix, I might have time to finish prepping and painting
the cowl. I
am
waiting until I get the cowl painted to send pics to the Moose
website to
document that it is done.

Obviously, I don't have that magic number to prove it is
reliable and
would
suggest that anyone considering the same type of endeavor do
their
homework
thoroughly. This has been a huge project and I have made
every effort to
ensure that it will be successful. Most of the joy has
come with flying
and
has made the many thousand of hours working evenings,
weekends, and
vacations seem to be worth the time. This plane, like
any plane will be
subject to continous inspections and modifications in order to
keep it
airworthy. I hope that I can give the readers of this
server an update in
the future, hopefully with continued success.

Steve
Moose/SR #99

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Chris Hodgson · Post by **Chris Hodgson** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:31 pm

Thanks Mike,
Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Mike
Kimball
Sent: March 11, 2008 6:57 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] LS1 in a Moose on behalf of Steve Bowley

I can email you the information I got from MAM that gave me what I needed to
position the line of thrust properly. I'll scan it in tomorrow and upload
it to archives. I'll also email it separately to you to save you the
trouble of downloading it.

Mike
044SR

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Chris
Hodgson
Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 10:34 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] LS1 in a Moose on behalf of Steve Bowley

Steve,
OK. Since there is some interest - as a background I recently purchased a
partially completed Moose. I had looked at them for a number of years and
had always considered using an LS series engine for all the reasons we know
- high power to weight ratio, relatively inexpensive engine components, fuel
flexibility etc. I had also been apprehensive for the usual reasons -
unproven technology (mostly the PSRU), time and expense in doing a one off,
etc. For these reasons I had planned to put in an IO540 and the consider
doing a firewall forward LS while flying the plane. By chance a firewall
foward LS2 came up recently on ebay (as everyone may remember) and I bought
it for a good price (I hope). The PSRU is a helical geared unit and was
flying in a plane for 15 hours. The project was scrapped because the
airframe of the aerocomp it was in was apparently over-built by more than
1000lbs making it un-flyable.

So now I have a firewall foreward LS2 and you Steve are the first person I
have been able to talk to who is flying what I think I want. I probably
have a million questions but I will start with a few so I don't put you off.

How did you choose your PSRU? I looked into the chain drives by Vesta and
Robinson but I have to say I was put off by Vesta when they refused to give
me the names of anyone using their system.
How did you set up your cooling system? Did you set up a hot water cabin
heat system with the coolant?
How did you engineer the engine mount - line of thrust etc?
Did you put in any spark plug /magneto redundancy or rely on the LS
dedicated coil per cylinder? (I think I am going to stay with the LS system.
I have never had a car die suddenly for ignition reasons but I once had a
magneto rotor break on takeoff.)
Thanks in advance for the help,
Chris

----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Davis <mike.davis@dcsol.com>
Date: Friday, March 7, 2008 7:02 pm
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] LS1 in a Moose on behalf of Steve Bowley
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com

Please... ask away. You're not the only one considering an LS2.

Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Hodgson" <chrishodgson@shaw.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 4:53 PM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] LS1 in a Moose on behalf of Steve Bowley

Steve,
Somehow your posting was sent to my junk box which is ironic
since I am
thinking of putting an LS2 in my moose. As I don't want
to bore everyone
with my questions, could I ask you about some details "off
blog"? Thanks
Chris Hodgson chrishodgson@shaw.ca

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On
Behalf Of Mike
Kimball
Sent: February 15, 2008 1:51 PM
To: Rebel Builder's List
Subject: [rebel-builders] LS1 in a Moose on behalf of Steve Bowley

I have noticed some discussion regarding the LS engine in a
Cessna. I saw
that when it first came out several years ago while I was
building my
Moose
with a LS 1. I was hoping that when my project was
finished that I could
have a reliable aircraft with a cost effective, high
performance engine
that
would perform as well as a Moose with a M-14. I don't
have many hours on
the plane yet to claim reliable, but I have enough hours to
claim that the
climb performance is similar to the M14 and the cruise is 125
kts at 21
inches of manifold and 2100rpm at the prop [engine rpm 3800]
burning 10-11
gal/hr of auto fuel. I only have 50 hours of flight time
on the plane and
hope to get a lot more.

My firewall forward [ engine, mount, cowl, exhaust, all
accesories, psru,
computer, radiator] cost $26000 plus shipping. I
purchased a 3 blade MT
electric prop for $12500 because it allowed me to use
the psru without a
governor and only weighed 55 pounds. The prop was
pitched at the factory
to
require 350HP to turn at 2500 prop rpm and 4500 engine
rpm. The engine at
full throttle turns the prop at 2500rpm which means I am
getting 350 HP at
take-off.

I haven't been able to measure my ground roll, but with me and
60 gal of
fuel I estimate it to be in the 350- 450 foot area. I am
not too sure of
this at present, but will try to get a better measurement in
the future.
My plane weighs 1906 empty. In looking at the M14 empty
weights they seem
to come in at any where from 2100-2300. The empty
weights for the 300HP
Lyc
come in at 1850-1950. So, the concept of auto engines in
the MOOSE being
too heavy don't appear to apply. No doubt this engine in
a smaller
airframe
may not work. At my FAA inspection, my CG came out to be
exactly at the
forward limit and with any load addition, it will stay within
the CG.
The cooling did present a problem intially, but with ongoing
R&D I have
the
temps under control. When I was flying in September with
OAT of 110F, the
water temp was 200F and the oil was 210F. Now with OAT
of 50-70F, the
water
runs at 180F and the oil at 160. In the first 50 hours
of operation I
have
added 2 quarts of oil and I changed the oil at
25 hours. The first quart of oil was added because of a
leak of the front
seal which was replaced at the cost of $3.00 and labor.

Presently, the plane will be VFR on wheels and no plans to use
floats even
though I installed the float attach points. All the
published mods have
been done to the airframe and a Dale Fultz tail spring was
used. I have
to
say if anybody has a opportunity to use this tail spring, I
wholeheartedly> endorse it because it works great in absorbing
my not so perfect landings.
I agree that if I had purchased a Lyc or Cont engine, my build
time may
have
been shorter and I certainly have had some unique problems
while getting
to
this point in this project. The problems have not been
insurmountable,
all
you need to continue is time and money. In spite of my
problems, the use
of
the LS1 and the expense of the MT prop cost me less than a new
or factory
reman 300 HP Lyc or Cont engine without the accessories,
mount, cowl,
governor, and prop.

I have been flying at every free moment and have modified the
cowl during
the test flights, so I haven't been able to paint the
cowl. Some rainy
day
in Phoenix, I might have time to finish prepping and painting
the cowl. I
am
waiting until I get the cowl painted to send pics to the Moose
website to
document that it is done.

Obviously, I don't have that magic number to prove it is
reliable and
would
suggest that anyone considering the same type of endeavor do
their
homework
thoroughly. This has been a huge project and I have made
every effort to
ensure that it will be successful. Most of the joy has
come with flying
and
has made the many thousand of hours working evenings,
weekends, and
vacations seem to be worth the time. This plane, like
any plane will be
subject to continous inspections and modifications in order to
keep it
airworthy. I hope that I can give the readers of this
server an update in
the future, hopefully with continued success.

Steve
Moose/SR #99

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Dionne, Jacques · Post by **Dionne, Jacques** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:31 pm

Chris,

Would you please include me in your e-mail as well please. Thanks!

Jacques Dionne
283SR

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Chris Hodgson
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 11:46 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] LS1 in a Moose on behalf of Steve Bowley

Thanks Mike,
Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Mike
Kimball
Sent: March 11, 2008 6:57 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] LS1 in a Moose on behalf of Steve Bowley

I can email you the information I got from MAM that gave me what I
needed to
position the line of thrust properly. I'll scan it in tomorrow and
upload
it to archives. I'll also email it separately to you to save you the
trouble of downloading it.

Mike
044SR

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Chris
Hodgson
Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 10:34 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] LS1 in a Moose on behalf of Steve Bowley

Steve,
OK. Since there is some interest - as a background I recently purchased
a
partially completed Moose. I had looked at them for a number of years
and
had always considered using an LS series engine for all the reasons we
know
- high power to weight ratio, relatively inexpensive engine components,
fuel
flexibility etc. I had also been apprehensive for the usual reasons -
unproven technology (mostly the PSRU), time and expense in doing a one
off,
etc. For these reasons I had planned to put in an IO540 and the consider
doing a firewall forward LS while flying the plane. By chance a firewall
foward LS2 came up recently on ebay (as everyone may remember) and I
bought
it for a good price (I hope). The PSRU is a helical geared unit and was
flying in a plane for 15 hours. The project was scrapped because the
airframe of the aerocomp it was in was apparently over-built by more
than
1000lbs making it un-flyable.

So now I have a firewall foreward LS2 and you Steve are the first person
I
have been able to talk to who is flying what I think I want. I probably
have a million questions but I will start with a few so I don't put you
off.

How did you choose your PSRU? I looked into the chain drives by Vesta
and
Robinson but I have to say I was put off by Vesta when they refused to
give
me the names of anyone using their system.
How did you set up your cooling system? Did you set up a hot water
cabin
heat system with the coolant?
How did you engineer the engine mount - line of thrust etc?
Did you put in any spark plug /magneto redundancy or rely on the LS
dedicated coil per cylinder? (I think I am going to stay with the LS
system.
I have never had a car die suddenly for ignition reasons but I once had
a
magneto rotor break on takeoff.)
Thanks in advance for the help,
Chris

----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Davis <mike.davis@dcsol.com>
Date: Friday, March 7, 2008 7:02 pm
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] LS1 in a Moose on behalf of Steve Bowley
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com

Please... ask away. You're not the only one considering an LS2.

Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Hodgson" <chrishodgson@shaw.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 4:53 PM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] LS1 in a Moose on behalf of Steve Bowley

Steve,
Somehow your posting was sent to my junk box which is ironic
since I am
thinking of putting an LS2 in my moose. As I don't want
to bore everyone
with my questions, could I ask you about some details "off
blog"? Thanks
Chris Hodgson chrishodgson@shaw.ca

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On
Behalf Of Mike
Kimball
Sent: February 15, 2008 1:51 PM
To: Rebel Builder's List
Subject: [rebel-builders] LS1 in a Moose on behalf of Steve Bowley

I have noticed some discussion regarding the LS engine in a
Cessna. I saw
that when it first came out several years ago while I was
building my
Moose
with a LS 1. I was hoping that when my project was
finished that I could
have a reliable aircraft with a cost effective, high
performance engine
that
would perform as well as a Moose with a M-14. I don't
have many hours on
the plane yet to claim reliable, but I have enough hours to
claim that the
climb performance is similar to the M14 and the cruise is 125
kts at 21
inches of manifold and 2100rpm at the prop [engine rpm 3800]
burning 10-11
gal/hr of auto fuel. I only have 50 hours of flight time
on the plane and
hope to get a lot more.

My firewall forward [ engine, mount, cowl, exhaust, all
accesories, psru,
computer, radiator] cost $26000 plus shipping. I
purchased a 3 blade MT
electric prop for $12500 because it allowed me to use
the psru without a
governor and only weighed 55 pounds. The prop was
pitched at the factory
to
require 350HP to turn at 2500 prop rpm and 4500 engine
rpm. The engine at
full throttle turns the prop at 2500rpm which means I am
getting 350 HP at
take-off.

I haven't been able to measure my ground roll, but with me and
60 gal of
fuel I estimate it to be in the 350- 450 foot area. I am
not too sure of
this at present, but will try to get a better measurement in
the future.
My plane weighs 1906 empty. In looking at the M14 empty
weights they seem
to come in at any where from 2100-2300. The empty
weights for the 300HP
Lyc
come in at 1850-1950. So, the concept of auto engines in
the MOOSE being
too heavy don't appear to apply. No doubt this engine in
a smaller
airframe
may not work. At my FAA inspection, my CG came out to be
exactly at the
forward limit and with any load addition, it will stay within
the CG.
The cooling did present a problem intially, but with ongoing
R&D I have
the
temps under control. When I was flying in September with
OAT of 110F, the
water temp was 200F and the oil was 210F. Now with OAT
of 50-70F, the
water
runs at 180F and the oil at 160. In the first 50 hours
of operation I
have
added 2 quarts of oil and I changed the oil at
25 hours. The first quart of oil was added because of a
leak of the front
seal which was replaced at the cost of $3.00 and labor.

Presently, the plane will be VFR on wheels and no plans to use
floats even
though I installed the float attach points. All the
published mods have
been done to the airframe and a Dale Fultz tail spring was
used. I have
to
say if anybody has a opportunity to use this tail spring, I
wholeheartedly> endorse it because it works great in absorbing
my not so perfect landings.
I agree that if I had purchased a Lyc or Cont engine, my build
time may
have
been shorter and I certainly have had some unique problems
while getting
to
this point in this project. The problems have not been
insurmountable,
all
you need to continue is time and money. In spite of my
problems, the use
of
the LS1 and the expense of the MT prop cost me less than a new
or factory
reman 300 HP Lyc or Cont engine without the accessories,
mount, cowl,
governor, and prop.

I have been flying at every free moment and have modified the
cowl during
the test flights, so I haven't been able to paint the
cowl. Some rainy
day
in Phoenix, I might have time to finish prepping and painting
the cowl. I
am
waiting until I get the cowl painted to send pics to the Moose
website to
document that it is done.

Obviously, I don't have that magic number to prove it is
reliable and
would
suggest that anyone considering the same type of endeavor do
their
homework
thoroughly. This has been a huge project and I have made
every effort to
ensure that it will be successful. Most of the joy has
come with flying
and
has made the many thousand of hours working evenings,
weekends, and
vacations seem to be worth the time. This plane, like
any plane will be
subject to continous inspections and modifications in order to
keep it
airworthy. I hope that I can give the readers of this
server an update in
the future, hopefully with continued success.

Steve
Moose/SR #99

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