[rebel-builders] Jabiru engines

[Keith Leitch]

Ron,

Hurry up and get yours done!! I want a report before they go off sale. :)

Seriously though, I still have it as a possiblity for my Rebel. I'm just not as brave as you being one of the first to do it.

Keith

Ron Shannon <rshannon@cruzcom.com> wrote:
FYI / FWIW - I don't want to re-open a Jabiru debate but in case anyone may
be interested, I thought it worth mentioning that today Jabiru put them on
sale, reportedly their first sale in 7 years. The 3300 6 cyl. 120 HP is
$2000 off, down to USD $16K+ -- which is about what they were two years ago.

Ron
254R




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[Ron Shannon]

Just finished! Works great! ;-)

Seriously, I'm hurrying as fast as I can. Judging by the number of redo's,
it's _too_ fast.

More seriously, just finished the last sub-panel cutout a few minutes ago,
and the last behind-panel gadget shelf. Finally ready to put the radio stack
cage in there for good (probably tonight) and start stringing some serious
spaghetti. The cowl mock-up has been done and is now off for various other
measurements, etc.

Happening.


On 3/7/08, Keith Leitch <im_planecrazy@yahoo.com> wrote:

Hurry up and get yours done!! I want a report before they go off
sale. :)

Seriously though, I still have it as a possiblity for my Rebel. I'm just
not as brave as you being one of the first to do it.

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[Ian Donaldson]

G'day Keith

It has been done before!

Here in Australia there is at least one flying with a Jabiru engine and
another one or two under construction that will use the Jab. Unfortunately I
have not seen the Jab engined one flying, but from what I have heard it
performs OK.

The person that owns this Rebel couldn't handle it as a taildragger, so he
turned the main gear around and put on a self centering nose wheel. It looks
a little unusual, but works.

If I can get some idea as to it's performance I will let you know.

regards

Ian Donaldson

:
: Seriously though, I still have it as a possibility for my Rebel. I'm just
not as brave as you being one of the first to do it.
:
: Keith
:
: Ron Shannon <rshannon@cruzcom.com> wrote:
: FYI / FWIW - I don't want to re-open a Jabiru debate but in case anyone
may
: be interested, I thought it worth mentioning that today Jabiru put them on
: sale, reportedly their first sale in 7 years. The 3300 6 cyl. 120 HP is
: $2000 off, down to USD $16K+ -- which is about what they were two years
ago.
:
: Ron
: 254R
:
:
:
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[Keith Leitch]

Ian,

Thanks for the heads up on a Rebel all ready flying with a Jabiru. I would really like some more info on it if possible. I am mostly concerned with T/O distance and such as I will be operating out of a 1000 ft. strip with trees on each end. Oh yeah, I think I also told you earlier that I have this funny white stuff called snow to deal with in the winter time. :)

Keith

Ian Donaldson <allsure@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
G'day Keith

It has been done before!

Here in Australia there is at least one flying with a Jabiru engine and
another one or two under construction that will use the Jab. Unfortunately I
have not seen the Jab engined one flying, but from what I have heard it
performs OK.

The person that owns this Rebel couldn't handle it as a taildragger, so he
turned the main gear around and put on a self centering nose wheel. It looks
a little unusual, but works.

If I can get some idea as to it's performance I will let you know.

regards

Ian Donaldson

:
: Seriously though, I still have it as a possibility for my Rebel. I'm just
not as brave as you being one of the first to do it.
:
: Keith
:
: Ron Shannon wrote:
: FYI / FWIW - I don't want to re-open a Jabiru debate but in case anyone
may
: be interested, I thought it worth mentioning that today Jabiru put them on
: sale, reportedly their first sale in 7 years. The 3300 6 cyl. 120 HP is
: $2000 off, down to USD $16K+ -- which is about what they were two years
ago.
:
: Ron
: 254R
:
:
:
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[Richard Wampach]

I have a friend that installed the 6 cyl Jab engine in his Sonex. It
was a great combination, did about 195 mph, good take off performance.
You might want to check out the Sonex builders web site for information
on the 4 & 6 cyl engines.

Dick SR-108

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Keith Leitch
Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 6:12 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Jabiru engines

Ian,

Thanks for the heads up on a Rebel all ready flying with a Jabiru. I
would really like some more info on it if possible. I am mostly
concerned with T/O distance and such as I will be operating out of a
1000 ft. strip with trees on each end. Oh yeah, I think I also told you
earlier that I have this funny white stuff called snow to deal with in
the winter time. :)

Keith

Ian Donaldson <allsure@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
G'day Keith

It has been done before!

Here in Australia there is at least one flying with a Jabiru engine and
another one or two under construction that will use the Jab.
Unfortunately I
have not seen the Jab engined one flying, but from what I have heard it
performs OK.

The person that owns this Rebel couldn't handle it as a taildragger, so
he
turned the main gear around and put on a self centering nose wheel. It
looks
a little unusual, but works.

If I can get some idea as to it's performance I will let you know.

regards

Ian Donaldson

:
: Seriously though, I still have it as a possibility for my Rebel. I'm
just
not as brave as you being one of the first to do it.
:
: Keith
:
: Ron Shannon wrote:
: FYI / FWIW - I don't want to re-open a Jabiru debate but in case
anyone
may
: be interested, I thought it worth mentioning that today Jabiru put
them on
: sale, reportedly their first sale in 7 years. The 3300 6 cyl. 120 HP
is
: $2000 off, down to USD $16K+ -- which is about what they were two
years
ago.
:
: Ron
: 254R
:
:
:
:
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[Jim Cole]

I saw a Rebel with spring gear and a Jabiru at Collingwood a couple of years
ago - but I don't remember the gentleman's name. Maybe Bob does???
I'll have a few pictures to share at the meeting tomorrow of some ski flying
that Tom and I have been doing also some back issues of Canadian Aviator
Magazine for those who would like one. The current issue has a Rotax 912 on
the cover. By the way Bob they've asked me for a map of our route to go
along with the article that will appear in the May/June issue - do you have
the one you included in the Ramble PDF?

Cheers
Jim R333



On 3/8/2008 9:12 AM, "Keith Leitch" <im_planecrazy@yahoo.com> wrote:

Ian,

Thanks for the heads up on a Rebel all ready flying with a Jabiru. I would
really like some more info on it if possible. I am mostly concerned with T/O
distance and such as I will be operating out of a 1000 ft. strip with trees on
each end. Oh yeah, I think I also told you earlier that I have this funny
white stuff called snow to deal with in the winter time. :)

Keith

Ian Donaldson <allsure@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
G'day Keith

It has been done before!

Here in Australia there is at least one flying with a Jabiru engine and
another one or two under construction that will use the Jab. Unfortunately I
have not seen the Jab engined one flying, but from what I have heard it
performs OK.

The person that owns this Rebel couldn't handle it as a taildragger, so he
turned the main gear around and put on a self centering nose wheel. It looks
a little unusual, but works.

If I can get some idea as to it's performance I will let you know.

regards

Ian Donaldson

:
: Seriously though, I still have it as a possibility for my Rebel. I'm just
not as brave as you being one of the first to do it.
:
: Keith
:
: Ron Shannon wrote:
: FYI / FWIW - I don't want to re-open a Jabiru debate but in case anyone
may
: be interested, I thought it worth mentioning that today Jabiru put them on
: sale, reportedly their first sale in 7 years. The 3300 6 cyl. 120 HP is
: $2000 off, down to USD $16K+ -- which is about what they were two years
ago.
:
: Ron
: 254R
:
:
:
:
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[Bob Patterson]

Sorry - don't know of ANY flying Rebels in Canada with Jabirus.

Only know of one Zenair 601 with a Jabiru - performance was
disappointing for the Kitchener flying school .... on hot days, everyone
wanted the other 601's, with the Rotax 912's.

Looking forward to seeing the pics & the mag. - unfortunately,
it will have to wait until NEXT Saturday, March 15th - - the
blizzard is so bad, we've decided to postpone the Builders
Meeting.....

You could d/l the route map from the Ramble site,
http://prosumers.ca/Ramble07 in the Pictures section.
The direct url is:
http://prosumers.ca/tftg/albums/Ramble07/rrwest07-1.jpg

If that is a problem, let me know, and I'll email it to
you directly --- sorry, don't have any with higher res. ...
it's been re-used a few years now ...

--
......bobp
bobp@prosumers.ca
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com
http://apatterson2.ordermygift.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Saturday 08 March 2008 14:34, Jim Cole wrote:

I saw a Rebel with spring gear and a Jabiru at Collingwood a couple of
years ago - but I don't remember the gentleman's name. Maybe Bob does???
I'll have a few pictures to share at the meeting tomorrow of some ski
flying that Tom and I have been doing also some back issues of Canadian
Aviator Magazine for those who would like one. The current issue has a
Rotax 912 on the cover. By the way Bob they've asked me for a map of our
route to go along with the article that will appear in the May/June issue
- do you have the one you included in the Ramble PDF?

Cheers
Jim R333

On 3/8/2008 9:12 AM, "Keith Leitch" <im_planecrazy@yahoo.com> wrote:

Ian,

Thanks for the heads up on a Rebel all ready flying with a Jabiru. I
would really like some more info on it if possible. I am mostly
concerned with T/O distance and such as I will be operating out of a
1000 ft. strip with trees on each end. Oh yeah, I think I also told you
earlier that I have this funny white stuff called snow to deal with in
the winter time. :)

Keith

Ian Donaldson <allsure@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
G'day Keith

It has been done before!

Here in Australia there is at least one flying with a Jabiru engine and
another one or two under construction that will use the Jab.
Unfortunately I have not seen the Jab engined one flying, but from what
I have heard it performs OK.

The person that owns this Rebel couldn't handle it as a taildragger, so
he turned the main gear around and put on a self centering nose wheel.
It looks a little unusual, but works.

If I can get some idea as to it's performance I will let you know.

regards

Ian Donaldson

: Seriously though, I still have it as a possibility for my Rebel. I'm
: just

not as brave as you being one of the first to do it.

: Keith
:
: Ron Shannon wrote:
: FYI / FWIW - I don't want to re-open a Jabiru debate but in case
: anyone

may

: be interested, I thought it worth mentioning that today Jabiru put
: them on sale, reportedly their first sale in 7 years. The 3300 6 cyl.
: 120 HP is $2000 off, down to USD $16K+ -- which is about what they
: were two years

ago.

: Ron
: 254R

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[John Kramer]

Our local EAA chapter #91 has two members currently flying 6 cyl
Jabirus. One is in a 601HD that Fred seems very happy with. The other
is in a Sonex. The Sonex is the second Gus has built the first had the
80hp Jabiru which he was fairly satisfied with and flew from MO to CA &
back, someone liked it so much they bought it which forced him to build
another with the 6 cyl. Gus seems real happy with the Sonex performance
with a Jabiru and has made another trip to the left coast and back.

Of course both designs present a lot less front than a Rebel.

John...369R

Bob Patterson wrote:

Sorry - don't know of ANY flying Rebels in Canada with Jabirus.

Only know of one Zenair 601 with a Jabiru - performance was
disappointing for the Kitchener flying school .... on hot days, everyone
wanted the other 601's, with the Rotax 912's.

Looking forward to seeing the pics & the mag. - unfortunately,
it will have to wait until NEXT Saturday, March 15th - - the
blizzard is so bad, we've decided to postpone the Builders
Meeting.....

You could d/l the route map from the Ramble site,
http://prosumers.ca/Ramble07 in the Pictures section.
The direct url is:
http://prosumers.ca/tftg/albums/Ramble07/rrwest07-1.jpg

If that is a problem, let me know, and I'll email it to
you directly --- sorry, don't have any with higher res. ...
it's been re-used a few years now ...

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[Jim Cole]

Probably a good call - although we only have about 10 cm so far here in
Cookstown but I understand it's a lot worse towards Toronto.

Unfortunately I won't be able to make it next Saturday.

Cheers
Jim R333


On 3/8/2008 11:15 AM, "Bob Patterson" <bobp@prosumers.ca> wrote:

Sorry - don't know of ANY flying Rebels in Canada with Jabirus.

Only know of one Zenair 601 with a Jabiru - performance was
disappointing for the Kitchener flying school .... on hot days, everyone
wanted the other 601's, with the Rotax 912's.

Looking forward to seeing the pics & the mag. - unfortunately,
it will have to wait until NEXT Saturday, March 15th - - the
blizzard is so bad, we've decided to postpone the Builders
Meeting.....

You could d/l the route map from the Ramble site,
http://prosumers.ca/Ramble07 in the Pictures section.
The direct url is:
http://prosumers.ca/tftg/albums/Ramble07/rrwest07-1.jpg

If that is a problem, let me know, and I'll email it to
you directly --- sorry, don't have any with higher res. ...
it's been re-used a few years now ...

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[C&P Kucera]

If the 6-cyl Jabiru really puts out the 108 HP at 2750 RPM and weighs 180 lb
installed then it will perform similarly to the Rotax 912S, i.e. should work
fine in lighter built Rebels, even a straight float Rebel might fly with it
provided it can swing a big 2-blade prop. Anyone know what max dia 2-blade
prop it can swing?

paul

453R



----- Original Message -----
From: "John Kramer" <369r@kramers.org>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 12:28 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Jabiru engines

Our local EAA chapter #91 has two members currently flying 6 cyl
Jabirus. One is in a 601HD that Fred seems very happy with. The other
is in a Sonex. The Sonex is the second Gus has built the first had the
80hp Jabiru which he was fairly satisfied with and flew from MO to CA &
back, someone liked it so much they bought it which forced him to build
another with the 6 cyl. Gus seems real happy with the Sonex performance
with a Jabiru and has made another trip to the left coast and back.

Of course both designs present a lot less front than a Rebel.

John...369R

Bob Patterson wrote:

Sorry - don't know of ANY flying Rebels in Canada with Jabirus.

Only know of one Zenair 601 with a Jabiru - performance was
disappointing for the Kitchener flying school .... on hot days, everyone
wanted the other 601's, with the Rotax 912's.

Looking forward to seeing the pics & the mag. - unfortunately,
it will have to wait until NEXT Saturday, March 15th - - the
blizzard is so bad, we've decided to postpone the Builders
Meeting.....

You could d/l the route map from the Ramble site,
http://prosumers.ca/Ramble07 in the Pictures section.
The direct url is:
http://prosumers.ca/tftg/albums/Ramble07/rrwest07-1.jpg

If that is a problem, let me know, and I'll email it to
you directly --- sorry, don't have any with higher res. ...
it's been re-used a few years now ...

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[jean.poirier]

Hum

How much torque ? This is permit the 912 to perform, reduction give it torque. A buddy who had a 0-200 in a KitFox on floats, change for
a 914. Just 15 hp over the 0-200 but the torque! It outperform the Continental in all aspect except cost! The Jabiru is a very nice engine
but like the volks is more efficient in sleek, fast airplane. Small prop running at high rpm. If you are looking for a bargain, buy a Great Plain
VOlks with a reduction unit. 100 hp with torque. Half the Jabiru price for a new engine.

Jean
Rebel 747r


On Sat Mar 8 14:44 , 'C&P Kucera' <cpkucera@idirect.com> sent:

If the 6-cyl Jabiru really puts out the 108 HP at 2750 RPM and weighs 180 lb
installed then it will perform similarly to the Rotax 912S, i.e. should work
fine in lighter built Rebels, even a straight float Rebel might fly with it
provided it can swing a big 2-blade prop. Anyone know what max dia 2-blade
prop it can swing?

paul

453R



----- Original Message -----
From: "John Kramer" 369r@kramers.org>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 12:28 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Jabiru engines

Our local EAA chapter #91 has two members currently flying 6 cyl
Jabirus. One is in a 601HD that Fred seems very happy with. The other
is in a Sonex. The Sonex is the second Gus has built the first had the
80hp Jabiru which he was fairly satisfied with and flew from MO to CA &
back, someone liked it so much they bought it which forced him to build
another with the 6 cyl. Gus seems real happy with the Sonex performance
with a Jabiru and has made another trip to the left coast and back.

Of course both designs present a lot less front than a Rebel.

John...369R

Bob Patterson wrote:

Sorry - don't know of ANY flying Rebels in Canada with Jabirus.

Only know of one Zenair 601 with a Jabiru - performance was
disappointing for the Kitchener flying school .... on hot days, everyone
wanted the other 601's, with the Rotax 912's.

Looking forward to seeing the pics & the mag. - unfortunately,
it will have to wait until NEXT Saturday, March 15th - - the
blizzard is so bad, we've decided to postpone the Builders
Meeting.....

You could d/l the route map from the Ramble site,
http://prosumers.ca/Ramble07 in the Pictures section.
The direct url is:
http://prosumers.ca/tftg/albums/Ramble07/rrwest07-1.jpg

If that is a problem, let me know, and I'll email it to
you directly --- sorry, don't have any with higher res. ...
it's been re-used a few years now ...

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[Ron Shannon]

Paul,

The Jabiru 3300 manual specifies a max. 70" diameter with between 30-50 of
pitch. As you probably know, prop selection is a complex matter, including
consideration of the desired performance profile (climb vs. cruise, etc.)
and in this case, whether the standard constant depression Bing carb is
used, along with other issues. The object of the exercise with this engine
is to get the right combination of static RPM and desired cruise
RPM-to-leaning profile, i.e., the optimal combination of prop loading across
all stages of flight. FWIW, I have a Sensenich 68x38, as recommended by
Sensenich and Jabiru Pacific. Of course, depending on how it turns out, I
may try something else.

My 3300 weighs 172 lbs. "all up" including starter, alternator, baffle
ducts, exhaust & muffler, etc.

Any mention of Jabiru on the list always seems to lead to a debate over its
merits, a debate which has been amply presented before. There is no shortage
of earnestly held opinions and anecdotal hearsay expressed in the list
archives. I don't know why the mere FYI mention of a rare Jabiru sale makes
Rotax partisans think they must not miss another opportunity to knock the
Jabiru. Whatever, personally I lack the energy to extend that debate. When
254R flies, I'll let you know how it works.

Ron
254R


On 3/8/08, C&P Kucera <cpkucera@idirect.com> wrote:

If the 6-cyl Jabiru really puts out the 108 HP at 2750 RPM and weighs 180
lb
installed then it will perform similarly to the Rotax 912S, i.e. should
work
fine in lighter built Rebels, even a straight float Rebel might fly with
it
provided it can swing a big 2-blade prop. Anyone know what max dia 2-blade
prop it can swing?

paul

453R

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[Ian Donaldson]

G'day Keith


I am busily chasing up that Rebel and if I have some success I will post the
details to the group.

Snow! Don't know what you are talking about! Never seen the stuff here, but
we would welcome some just now. We have had a week of 105f temperatures and
no rain for the last 35 days and a drought for the last 8 years!

regards

Ian



: Thanks for the heads up on a Rebel all ready flying with a Jabiru. I
would really like some more info on it if possible. I am mostly concerned
with T/O distance and such as I will be operating out of a 1000 ft. strip
with trees on each end. Oh yeah, I think I also told you earlier that I have
this funny white stuff called snow to deal with in the winter time. :)
:
: Keith
:




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[C&P Kucera]

Thanks Ron,

this engine is on my list of options. Im going on straight floats, 70" prop
with the Jabiru under the speed cowl may work. Im building my plane as light
as possible, hope to be around 925 lbs with empty fuse, engine and floats.

paul


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Shannon" <rshannon@cruzcom.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 4:00 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Jabiru engines

Paul,

The Jabiru 3300 manual specifies a max. 70" diameter with between 30-50 of
pitch. As you probably know, prop selection is a complex matter, including
consideration of the desired performance profile (climb vs. cruise, etc.)
and in this case, whether the standard constant depression Bing carb is
used, along with other issues. The object of the exercise with this engine
is to get the right combination of static RPM and desired cruise
RPM-to-leaning profile, i.e., the optimal combination of prop loading
across
all stages of flight. FWIW, I have a Sensenich 68x38, as recommended by
Sensenich and Jabiru Pacific. Of course, depending on how it turns out, I
may try something else.

My 3300 weighs 172 lbs. "all up" including starter, alternator, baffle
ducts, exhaust & muffler, etc.

Any mention of Jabiru on the list always seems to lead to a debate over
its
merits, a debate which has been amply presented before. There is no
shortage
of earnestly held opinions and anecdotal hearsay expressed in the list
archives. I don't know why the mere FYI mention of a rare Jabiru sale
makes
Rotax partisans think they must not miss another opportunity to knock the
Jabiru. Whatever, personally I lack the energy to extend that debate. When
254R flies, I'll let you know how it works.

Ron
254R


On 3/8/08, C&P Kucera <cpkucera@idirect.com> wrote:

If the 6-cyl Jabiru really puts out the 108 HP at 2750 RPM and weighs 180
lb
installed then it will perform similarly to the Rotax 912S, i.e. should
work
fine in lighter built Rebels, even a straight float Rebel might fly with
it
provided it can swing a big 2-blade prop. Anyone know what max dia
2-blade
prop it can swing?

paul

453R

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[C&P Kucera]

Hi Jean,

I spoke with the guys at Great Plains about a year ago. They said not to put
their VW engine into the Rebel, apparently it would have to work extra hard
to keep the Rebel flying, engine would not last. I was disappointed because
their engine looks great. It is 2275 cc, 110 hp take-off, 73 hp continuous,
with 2:1 redrive, can swing up to 84" prop, weight with nikasil cylinders,
redrive and all accessories is 175lb, cost of the kit is $US 6000, or they
will assemble.

paul

453R

http://www.greatplainsas.com/

----- Original Message -----
From: <jean.poirier@oxyportneuf.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 3:45 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Jabiru engines

Hum

How much torque ? This is permit the 912 to perform, reduction give it
torque. A buddy who had a 0-200 in a KitFox on floats, change for
a 914. Just 15 hp over the 0-200 but the torque! It outperform the
Continental in all aspect except cost! The Jabiru is a very nice engine
but like the volks is more efficient in sleek, fast airplane. Small prop
running at high rpm. If you are looking for a bargain, buy a Great Plain
VOlks with a reduction unit. 100 hp with torque. Half the Jabiru price
for a new engine.

Jean
Rebel 747r


On Sat Mar 8 14:44 , 'C&P Kucera' <cpkucera@idirect.com> sent:

If the 6-cyl Jabiru really puts out the 108 HP at 2750 RPM and weighs 180
lb
installed then it will perform similarly to the Rotax 912S, i.e. should
work
fine in lighter built Rebels, even a straight float Rebel might fly with
it
provided it can swing a big 2-blade prop. Anyone know what max dia 2-blade
prop it can swing?

paul

453R



----- Original Message -----
From: "John Kramer" 369r@kramers.org>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 12:28 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Jabiru engines

Our local EAA chapter #91 has two members currently flying 6 cyl
Jabirus. One is in a 601HD that Fred seems very happy with. The other
is in a Sonex. The Sonex is the second Gus has built the first had the
80hp Jabiru which he was fairly satisfied with and flew from MO to CA &
back, someone liked it so much they bought it which forced him to build
another with the 6 cyl. Gus seems real happy with the Sonex performance
with a Jabiru and has made another trip to the left coast and back.

Of course both designs present a lot less front than a Rebel.

John...369R

Bob Patterson wrote:
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