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[rebel-builders] Rebel engines

Converted from Wildcat! database. (read only)
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Bob Patterson

[rebel-builders] Rebel engines

Post by Bob Patterson » Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:22 pm

Hi Ben !

I only know of ONE Rebel that has flown for several years with
an EA-81 - it was completely stock, except for the re-drive.
It seems to me that the most one could reasonably <believe>
from the EA-81 would be about 95 - 100 hp. ....

Personally, I wouldn't bother with the EA-81 - it's very little
lighter than the EJ-22, which has a much better record of
successful use in aircraft. You wouldn't have to worry about
pushing the EJ-22 to stay in the air ..... :-)
Have flown several EJ-22 Rebels - I like them, as they are
smooth & quiet, and burn about 60 % of the fuel a comparable
Lycoming does in the same flight profile. Without any tweaking,
you'll get equivalent to about 135 + hp.
-- all this is just my experience. YMMD ;-)

Nice, and cheap (debateable...), as the Subarus are, realistically,
you will add 6 months to a year to your build-to-happy-flying time !
Usually figure 6 months for every major mod - and here, you are changing
mounts, cowling, positioning radiators.... etc. .... soooooooo..... :-(

I still say - spend a few dollars and get a Rotax 912, or 912S - a proven,
certified (if you want) aircraft engine that gives good performance and
outstanding fuel economy ! It just can't be beaten for the Rebel !!

Old aviation rule-of-thumb - - 100 lb. of airplane = 10 hp.

Given that the Rotax installed weight is less than half the weight
of the Subaru ..... = better performance and increased safety !
The safety comes in when you run into something - you have less
mass, so less kinetic energy to dissipate -- and the Rebel airframe
is great at absorbing and spreading energy, to protect the occupants !

--
......bobp
bobp@prosumers.ca
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com
http://apatterson2.ordermygift.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Wednesday 30 January 2008 17:09, bransom@dcsol.com wrote:
Ken's article nudged me to check in again over at ramengines.com. Anyone
know of any experiences with their products? Looks and reads pretty good,
although easy to wonder if they're trying to squeeze too much out of an
EA-81. My own personal counter to that is that the Sube engines
themselves are extremely robust and the devil is just in the details.
-Ben


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steve whitenect

[rebel-builders] Rebel engines

Post by steve whitenect » Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:22 pm

Did he have an incident before u went with an engine out resulting in some damage? I can't remember (old age creaping in) if thats the town but does sound familiar. I just remember kicking the can around one day at the pond with the usual guys and someone (from the same community) was remarking about all the money and trouble the conversion had cost the guy. I do remember that he was more than several years trying to get it right who ever it was. Wish I was back there scaring the fish too!

Steve W 637R > From: bobp@prosumers.ca> To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com> Subject: [rebel-builders] Rebel engines> Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 03:53:43 +0000> > > Hi Steve !> > If that person was out in Musgrave Harbour, I went down there> in early 1996, I think ..., with a wizard from Crossflow Engineering.> We did a bit of testing at Gander, and he tweaked the engine computer -> ran like a dream after 2 days, so we sent him home.> > I did some test flying & minor adjusting, and then checked him > out on the Rebel - he'd only ever flown a Cherokee before ...> By the end of the week, he was doing great - so I came home.> > He has been flying that 180 hp. Subaru Rebel on Murphy 1800 amphibs> ever since - many hundreds of happy hours, out 'terrifying the trout'> on many a bog .... :-) Burning 6 gallons/hour of mogas ....> > So it all worked out just fine !> > -- > ......bobp> bobp@prosumers.ca> http://www.prosumers.ca> http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com> http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com> http:
//apatterson2.ordermygi
f
t.com> > -------------------------------orig.------------------------- > On Wednesday 30 January 2008 23:30, steve whitenect wrote:> > Just my 2 cents worth.> > When I was still living on the Rock (Newfoundland) in the mid 90's, I> > remember a person of interest that had built a Rebel and had installed a> > Subaru conversion. I understand that he was into to engine way beyond> > (thousands) what a new Lycoming would have cost at the time. When I left,> > he still couldn't get it to run right. The wheel has been around for some> > time, why try and re-invent it.> >> > Steve W 637R> > _________________________________________________________________> >> > > > > -----------------------------------------------------------------> List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login> username "rebel" password "builder"> Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com> List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com> -----------------------------------------------------------------> > >
_________________________________________________________________





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Bob Patterson

[rebel-builders] Rebel engines

Post by Bob Patterson » Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:22 pm

Nope ! The engine had not run in the Rebel before .... He bought
it from Formula Power, for a lot of cash, and it wouldn't run ! He sent
it to Crossflow for a week, and they fixed all the problems, & he took
it home to bolt on. Jorge, from Crossflow, had to come down to do
the final tuning, and offered to stay as long as it took ... wasn't too
long ;-) . I had him lengthen the throttle arm before Jorge worked on
it, as it was very touchy, with only about 1" of total travel !

There was a flat spot in the power curve around 3,500 rpm,
and Jorge had me run it up & down a few times with his laptop
hooked up, then typed in some program changes. When I started
it up again, it was like a completely different engine - smooth
all the way up & down !! It flew great, with top speed about 135 mph,
at about 5,800 rpm, and great climb.

He did spend a lot of money, between the 2 shops, but today
there is more knowledge available .... You DO have to be very
careful choosing a supplier ..... none out there that excite me !
The only problem I have heard of was a couple of years later,
when he had the engine light come on, and stuffed her down in a bog
(no damage) - to find that the iron exhaust pipes, that he had wrapped
in heat-shield fabric, had rusted completely through, and were blowing
flaming exhaust onto the gascolator !!!! Fortunately, no fire, and
a buddy flew him out & back in with a new stainless exhaust,
.... and no problems since ! :-)

Sounds like it might have been a different guy, maybe ....

--
......bobp
bobp@prosumers.ca
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com
http://apatterson2.ordermygift.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Friday 01 February 2008 17:19, steve whitenect wrote:
Did he have an incident before u went with an engine out resulting in some
damage? I can't remember (old age creaping in) if thats the town but does
sound familiar. I just remember kicking the can around one day at the pond
with the usual guys and someone (from the same community) was remarking
about all the money and trouble the conversion had cost the guy. I do
remember that he was more than several years trying to get it right who
ever it was. Wish I was back there scaring the fish too!

Steve W 637R > From: bobp@prosumers.ca> To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: [rebel-builders] Rebel engines> Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 03:53:43
+0000> > > Hi Steve !> > If that person was out in Musgrave Harbour, I
went down there> in early 1996, I think ..., with a wizard from Crossflow
Engineering.> We did a bit of testing at Gander, and he tweaked the engine
computer -> ran like a dream after 2 days, so we sent him home.> > I did
some test flying & minor adjusting, and then checked him > out on the
Rebel - he'd only ever flown a Cherokee before ...> By the end of the
week, he was doing great - so I came home.> > He has been flying that 180
hp. Subaru Rebel on Murphy 1800 amphibs> ever since - many hundreds of
happy hours, out 'terrifying the trout'> on many a bog .... :-) Burning 6
gallons/hour of mogas ....> > So it all worked out just fine !> > -- >
......bobp> bobp@prosumers.ca> http://www.prosumers.ca>
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com> http://apatterson2.qhealthzone! .c
om> http://apatterson2.ordermygi
f
t.com> > -------------------------------orig.------------------------- >
On Wednesday 30 January 2008 23:30, steve whitenect wrote:> > Just my 2
cents worth.> > When I was still living on the Rock (Newfoundland) in the
mid 90's, I> > remember a person of interest that had built a Rebel and
had installed a> > Subaru conversion. I understand that he was into to
engine way beyond> > (thousands) what a new Lycoming would have cost at
the time. When I left,> > he still couldn't get it to run right. The wheel
has been around for some> > time, why try and re-invent it.> >> > Steve W
637R> > _________________________________________________________________>


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steve whitenect

[rebel-builders] Rebel engines

Post by steve whitenect » Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:22 pm

The guy had alot of trouble with all the automotive sensors that was used in his application, I do remember that. They had to use them because tha computor wouldn't run without them. Like u say, alot more knowledge out there now.

Steve> From: bobp@prosumers.ca> To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com> Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Rebel engines> Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 18:08:18 +0000> > > Nope ! The engine had not run in the Rebel before .... He bought> it from Formula Power, for a lot of cash, and it wouldn't run ! He sent> it to Crossflow for a week, and they fixed all the problems, & he took> it home to bolt on. Jorge, from Crossflow, had to come down to do> the final tuning, and offered to stay as long as it took ... wasn't too> long ;-) . I had him lengthen the throttle arm before Jorge worked on> it, as it was very touchy, with only about 1" of total travel !> > There was a flat spot in the power curve around 3,500 rpm,> and Jorge had me run it up & down a few times with his laptop> hooked up, then typed in some program changes. When I started> it up again, it was like a completely different engine - smooth> all the way up & down !! It flew great, with top speed about 135 mph,> at about 5,800 rpm, and great climb.> >
He did spend a lot of m
o
ney, between the 2 shops, but today> there is more knowledge available .... You DO have to be very> careful choosing a supplier ..... none out there that excite me !> The only problem I have heard of was a couple of years later, > when he had the engine light come on, and stuffed her down in a bog > (no damage) - to find that the iron exhaust pipes, that he had wrapped > in heat-shield fabric, had rusted completely through, and were blowing> flaming exhaust onto the gascolator !!!! Fortunately, no fire, and > a buddy flew him out & back in with a new stainless exhaust, > .... and no problems since ! :-)> > Sounds like it might have been a different guy, maybe ....> > -- > ......bobp> bobp@prosumers.ca> http://www.prosumers.ca> http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com> http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com> http://apatterson2.ordermygift.com> > -------------------------------orig.------------------------- > On Friday 01 February 2008 17:19, steve whitenect wrote:> > Did he have an incident befo
re u went with an engin
e
out resulting in some> > damage? I can't remember (old age creaping in) if thats the town but does> > sound familiar. I just remember kicking the can around one day at the pond> > with the usual guys and someone (from the same community) was remarking> > about all the money and trouble the conversion had cost the guy. I do> > remember that he was more than several years trying to get it right who> > ever it was. Wish I was back there scaring the fish too!> >> > Steve W 637R > From: bobp@prosumers.ca> To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com>> > Subject: [rebel-builders] Rebel engines> Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 03:53:43> > +0000> > > Hi Steve !> > If that person was out in Musgrave Harbour, I> > went down there> in early 1996, I think ..., with a wizard from Crossflow> > Engineering.> We did a bit of testing at Gander, and he tweaked the engine> > computer -> ran like a dream after 2 days, so we sent him home.> > I did> > some test flying & minor adjusting, and then checked him > out on the> > Rebel -
he'd only ever flown a

Cherokee before ...> By the end of the> > week, he was doing great - so I came home.> > He has been flying that 180> > hp. Subaru Rebel on Murphy 1800 amphibs> ever since - many hundreds of> > happy hours, out 'terrifying the trout'> on many a bog .... :-) Burning 6> > gallons/hour of mogas ....> > So it all worked out just fine !> > -- >> > ......bobp> bobp@prosumers.ca> http://www.prosumers.ca>> > http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com> http://apatterson2.qhealthzone! .c> > om> http://apatterson2.ordermygi> > f> > t.com> > -------------------------------orig.------------------------- >> > On Wednesday 30 January 2008 23:30, steve whitenect wrote:> > Just my 2> > cents worth.> > When I was still living on the Rock (Newfoundland) in the> > mid 90's, I> > remember a person of interest that had built a Rebel and> > had installed a> > Subaru conversion. I understand that he was into to> > engine way beyond> > (thousands) what a new Lycoming would have cost at> > the time. When I left,> > he
still couldn't get it t
o
run right. The wheel> > has been around for some> > time, why try and re-invent it.> >> > Steve W> > 637R> > _________________________________________________________________>> > >> > > > >> > > > > -----------------------------------------------------------------> List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login> username "rebel" password "builder"> Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com> List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com> -----------------------------------------------------------------> > >
_________________________________________________________________





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