[rebel-builders] RE: ramengines.com ?

[John Kramer]

James,

I for one would like to hear all of your reasons for changing over. 200
hours experience lend weight to your observations.

Thanks,

John...369R

james.smith@dcsol.com wrote:

I ran the Sube EJ-22 on my Rebel for about 200 hours and am now converting
to a Lyc 0-320 (for a lot of different reasons the least of which was the
reliability of the Sube engine itself). That being said, I have spent a lot of
time on the Sube yahoo chat groups and everything I read about Ram
engines has been positive up until a friend of mine had the EA-81 on his Kitfox
rebuilt by RAM. He now has a total of about 3 hours on a total of 3 rebuilds.
Something is fundamentally wrong with his engine now and his issues start
with the rebuild done by RAM (they forgot to torque the heads which resulted
in overheating/blown head gaskets).

I've never dealt with RAM so I don't have any personal experience but I do
think there is a point at which they are trying to get too much HP out of the
EA-81.

James Smith

On 1/30/2008 8:09 AM, bransom wrote to rebel-builders:

-> Ken's article nudged me to check in again over at ramengines.com. Anyone
-> know of any experiences with their products? Looks and reads pretty
good,
-> although easy to wonder if they're trying to squeeze too much out of an
-> EA-81. My own personal counter to that is that the Sube engines
themselves
-> are extremely robust and the devil is just in the details.
-> -Ben




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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

I've watched MANY Subarus go onto Rebels over the last 15 years.....and have
watched almost as many come off in due time.... including the one I just
pulled in October/November. If you aren't willing, or knowledgable enough,
to do all your own work on it.... to be certain you are getting something
reliable, as Ken Lehman has set a VERY fine example of, and that you can get
into the air when away from home (on your own) then stick with a proven
Aircraft engine installation and save yourself a lot of heartache and money.

The last one I pulled off..... the owner had forked out over $20,000 in
parts/labour AFTER buying a FLYING Subaru powered Rebel. The last time
around Crossflow tore it apart on him and then told him they'd had decided
they weren't in the maintenance business anymore...only new engines...and
handed it back to him in a box... along with a big bill. He was then forced
to take the engine elsewhere and pay to have it all re-assembled..new
computer etc and then decided it was in his best interest and safety (and
the fact he couldn't get it to run!) that it was time to make a decission.
The airplane spent 6 year sitting while all this went on. I re-engined it
for him and re-did his panel/controls etc to go with the lycoming over a
month or so period in the fall. Installed a complete low time SMOH O-320
firewall forward package, engine/exhaust/intake box/mount/prop/spinner and
all to put it in the air, for under 18 grand.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Kramer" <369r@kramers.org>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 1:18 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] RE: ramengines.com ?

James,

I for one would like to hear all of your reasons for changing over. 200
hours experience lend weight to your observations.

Thanks,

John...369R

james.smith@dcsol.com wrote:

I ran the Sube EJ-22 on my Rebel for about 200 hours and am now
converting
to a Lyc 0-320 (for a lot of different reasons the least of which was the
reliability of the Sube engine itself). That being said, I have spent a
lot of
time on the Sube yahoo chat groups and everything I read about Ram
engines has been positive up until a friend of mine had the EA-81 on his
Kitfox
rebuilt by RAM. He now has a total of about 3 hours on a total of 3
rebuilds.
Something is fundamentally wrong with his engine now and his issues start
with the rebuild done by RAM (they forgot to torque the heads which
resulted
in overheating/blown head gaskets).

I've never dealt with RAM so I don't have any personal experience but I
do
think there is a point at which they are trying to get too much HP out of
the
EA-81.

James Smith

On 1/30/2008 8:09 AM, bransom wrote to rebel-builders:

-> Ken's article nudged me to check in again over at ramengines.com.
Anyone
-> know of any experiences with their products? Looks and reads pretty
good,
-> although easy to wonder if they're trying to squeeze too much out of
an
-> EA-81. My own personal counter to that is that the Sube engines
themselves
-> are extremely robust and the devil is just in the details.
-> -Ben




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[Mike Kimball]

I find it amazing that "reliability" is specifically referred to here and
from others since that is exactly what Subarus (the cars) are known for. My
daughter's 1990 Legacy with an EJ-22 has 195,000 miles on it and the engine
is still running fine, although I did just have to replace the clutch.
(Probably something to do with my daughter's tendency to attempt a 5 second
quarter mile at every stop light.)

Also, in response to someone's comment about RamEngines. "Forgot to torque
the heads"!?!?! Yeah. I'd stay far, far away from that company.

Mike
044SR

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
james.smith@dcsol.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 8:59 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] RE: ramengines.com ?

I ran the Sube EJ-22 on my Rebel for about 200 hours and am now converting
to a Lyc 0-320 (for a lot of different reasons the least of which was the
reliability of the Sube engine itself). That being said, I have spent a lot
of
time on the Sube yahoo chat groups and everything I read about Ram
engines has been positive up until a friend of mine had the EA-81 on his
Kitfox
rebuilt by RAM. He now has a total of about 3 hours on a total of 3
rebuilds.
Something is fundamentally wrong with his engine now and his issues start
with the rebuild done by RAM (they forgot to torque the heads which resulted

in overheating/blown head gaskets).

I've never dealt with RAM so I don't have any personal experience but I do
think there is a point at which they are trying to get too much HP out of
the
EA-81.

James Smith

On 1/30/2008 8:09 AM, bransom wrote to rebel-builders:

-> Ken's article nudged me to check in again over at ramengines.com. Anyone
-> know of any experiences with their products? Looks and reads pretty
good,
-> although easy to wonder if they're trying to squeeze too much out of an
-> EA-81. My own personal counter to that is that the Sube engines
themselves
-> are extremely robust and the devil is just in the details.
-> -Ben




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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

You've got to remember there's a big difference between coasting along on a
highway using at most times, at posted speeds, maybe 20 to 25% of rated
Horsepower vs installed in an airplane running at 65 to 100 % power at all
times...then add a gear box or belt drive on top of it.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Kimball" <mkimball@gci.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 2:56 PM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] RE: ramengines.com ?

I find it amazing that "reliability" is specifically referred to here and
from others since that is exactly what Subarus (the cars) are known for.
My
daughter's 1990 Legacy with an EJ-22 has 195,000 miles on it and the
engine
is still running fine, although I did just have to replace the clutch.
(Probably something to do with my daughter's tendency to attempt a 5
second
quarter mile at every stop light.)

Also, in response to someone's comment about RamEngines. "Forgot to
torque
the heads"!?!?! Yeah. I'd stay far, far away from that company.

Mike
044SR

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
james.smith@dcsol.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 8:59 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] RE: ramengines.com ?

I ran the Sube EJ-22 on my Rebel for about 200 hours and am now converting
to a Lyc 0-320 (for a lot of different reasons the least of which was the
reliability of the Sube engine itself). That being said, I have spent a
lot
of
time on the Sube yahoo chat groups and everything I read about Ram
engines has been positive up until a friend of mine had the EA-81 on his
Kitfox
rebuilt by RAM. He now has a total of about 3 hours on a total of 3
rebuilds.
Something is fundamentally wrong with his engine now and his issues start
with the rebuild done by RAM (they forgot to torque the heads which
resulted

in overheating/blown head gaskets).

I've never dealt with RAM so I don't have any personal experience but I do
think there is a point at which they are trying to get too much HP out of
the
EA-81.

James Smith

On 1/30/2008 8:09 AM, bransom wrote to rebel-builders:

-> Ken's article nudged me to check in again over at ramengines.com.
Anyone
-> know of any experiences with their products? Looks and reads pretty
good,
-> although easy to wonder if they're trying to squeeze too much out of an
-> EA-81. My own personal counter to that is that the Sube engines
themselves
-> are extremely robust and the devil is just in the details.
-> -Ben




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[Mike Kimball]

Coasting along? Poasted speeds? Remember how I described my daughter's
driving habits? :-)

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Wayne
G. O'Shea
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 11:04 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] RE: ramengines.com ?

You've got to remember there's a big difference between coasting along on a
highway using at most times, at posted speeds, maybe 20 to 25% of rated
Horsepower vs installed in an airplane running at 65 to 100 % power at all
times...then add a gear box or belt drive on top of it.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Kimball" <mkimball@gci.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 2:56 PM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] RE: ramengines.com ?

I find it amazing that "reliability" is specifically referred to here and
from others since that is exactly what Subarus (the cars) are known for.
My
daughter's 1990 Legacy with an EJ-22 has 195,000 miles on it and the
engine
is still running fine, although I did just have to replace the clutch.
(Probably something to do with my daughter's tendency to attempt a 5
second
quarter mile at every stop light.)

Also, in response to someone's comment about RamEngines. "Forgot to
torque
the heads"!?!?! Yeah. I'd stay far, far away from that company.

Mike
044SR

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
james.smith@dcsol.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 8:59 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] RE: ramengines.com ?

I ran the Sube EJ-22 on my Rebel for about 200 hours and am now converting
to a Lyc 0-320 (for a lot of different reasons the least of which was the
reliability of the Sube engine itself). That being said, I have spent a
lot
of
time on the Sube yahoo chat groups and everything I read about Ram
engines has been positive up until a friend of mine had the EA-81 on his
Kitfox
rebuilt by RAM. He now has a total of about 3 hours on a total of 3
rebuilds.
Something is fundamentally wrong with his engine now and his issues start
with the rebuild done by RAM (they forgot to torque the heads which
resulted

in overheating/blown head gaskets).

I've never dealt with RAM so I don't have any personal experience but I do
think there is a point at which they are trying to get too much HP out of
the
EA-81.

James Smith

On 1/30/2008 8:09 AM, bransom wrote to rebel-builders:

-> Ken's article nudged me to check in again over at ramengines.com.
Anyone
-> know of any experiences with their products? Looks and reads pretty
good,
-> although easy to wonder if they're trying to squeeze too much out of an
-> EA-81. My own personal counter to that is that the Sube engines
themselves
-> are extremely robust and the devil is just in the details.
-> -Ben




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[Jean Poirier]

I did remember a failure study the FAA done on 100 "incidents" that happen
with Subarus. 98 of those where with the work "around" the engine not the
engine itself. Stratus seems to have good record. The person who make
the firewall forward around the Sub look to be the key... of the success or
the nightmare...

Jean
Rebel 747R

Jean Poirier
Pr

[Wayne G. O'Shea]

Yah I hear you Mike...I've got three of those in the house..well maybe
Five.. I think they watched and learned from their parents. ;O)

That said... My '69 Bee still has it's original 383 magnum in it...never
touched since it came out of the factory. Starts everytime..never skips a
beat....hell still has the original distributor in it. It's been drag raced
on Sundays... radared on a long straight highway at 181 MPH... thanks to
it's 2:73 to 1 rear end... driven across the entire city of Toronto to make
it to my last exam with no water in the block.... thanks to a bottom frost
plug rusting out... and given that dependability I still don't think it
would last very long in an airplane.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Kimball" <mkimball@gci.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 3:08 PM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] RE: ramengines.com ?

Coasting along? Poasted speeds? Remember how I described my daughter's
driving habits? :-)

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Wayne
G. O'Shea
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 11:04 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] RE: ramengines.com ?

You've got to remember there's a big difference between coasting along on
a
highway using at most times, at posted speeds, maybe 20 to 25% of rated
Horsepower vs installed in an airplane running at 65 to 100 % power at all
times...then add a gear box or belt drive on top of it.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Kimball" <mkimball@gci.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 2:56 PM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] RE: ramengines.com ?

I find it amazing that "reliability" is specifically referred to here and
from others since that is exactly what Subarus (the cars) are known for.
My
daughter's 1990 Legacy with an EJ-22 has 195,000 miles on it and the
engine
is still running fine, although I did just have to replace the clutch.
(Probably something to do with my daughter's tendency to attempt a 5
second
quarter mile at every stop light.)

Also, in response to someone's comment about RamEngines. "Forgot to
torque
the heads"!?!?! Yeah. I'd stay far, far away from that company.

Mike
044SR

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
james.smith@dcsol.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 8:59 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] RE: ramengines.com ?

I ran the Sube EJ-22 on my Rebel for about 200 hours and am now
converting
to a Lyc 0-320 (for a lot of different reasons the least of which was the
reliability of the Sube engine itself). That being said, I have spent a
lot
of
time on the Sube yahoo chat groups and everything I read about Ram
engines has been positive up until a friend of mine had the EA-81 on his
Kitfox
rebuilt by RAM. He now has a total of about 3 hours on a total of 3
rebuilds.
Something is fundamentally wrong with his engine now and his issues start
with the rebuild done by RAM (they forgot to torque the heads which
resulted

in overheating/blown head gaskets).

I've never dealt with RAM so I don't have any personal experience but I
do
think there is a point at which they are trying to get too much HP out of
the
EA-81.

James Smith

On 1/30/2008 8:09 AM, bransom wrote to rebel-builders:

-> Ken's article nudged me to check in again over at ramengines.com.
Anyone
-> know of any experiences with their products? Looks and reads pretty
good,
-> although easy to wonder if they're trying to squeeze too much out of
an
-> EA-81. My own personal counter to that is that the Sube engines
themselves
-> are extremely robust and the devil is just in the details.
-> -Ben




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[Dale Fultz]

Just an observation here,, I have changed 5 subaru engines here in my shop
in the last year and there isn't that many subarus in this area. All the
engines didn't have alot of miles on 77,000 to 132,000 ,, either. Not saying
they don't last just saying I have changed out some here. To each his own,
but I am not sold on the idea.. Dale SR-033 N269DF
-----




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[steve whitenect]

Just my 2 cents worth.
When I was still living on the Rock (Newfoundland) in the mid 90's, I remember a person of interest that had built a Rebel and had installed a Subaru conversion. I understand that he was into to engine way beyond (thousands) what a new Lycoming would have cost at the time. When I left, he still couldn't get it to run right. The wheel has been around for some time, why try and re-invent it.

Steve W 637R
_________________________________________________________________





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[Ken]

The last spate of posts on Automobile engines is impressive. You guys
may have a better general understanding than some owners who purchased
them from a third party. As demonstrated by the gyrocopter group, the
soob remains one of the very best engines out there for running all day
at high power. But you still have to respect the details and carefully
consider any changes from stock.

The only chronic engine replacement problem I'm aware of in the car is
from overheating 2.5 engines after a coolant change due to entrapped
air. That is typically at the mileage mentioned and can occur locally in
cylinder heads without any high temperature indication to the driver as
I understand it.

I don't think it is the solution for this particular engine but a
continuous steam or vapor bleed from a high point of the coolant system
back to the reservoir is recommended on all conversions. Also from the
rad if it is located such that it can trap air.

Ken

Dale Fultz wrote:

Just an observation here,, I have changed 5 subaru engines here in my shop
in the last year and there isn't that many subarus in this area. All the
engines didn't have alot of miles on 77,000 to 132,000 ,, either. Not saying
they don't last just saying I have changed out some here. To each his own,
but I am not sold on the idea.. Dale SR-033 N269DF
-----

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[Dale Fultz]

In my opinion that is one of the major downfalls with our auto industry the
coolant sensor isn't sensitive to air temperature and therefore when it is
low on coolant or an air pocket the gauge doesn't register hot... I see a
lot of subarus for that and head gaskets leaking .... So easy to swap out
and inexpensive at some local salvage yards so I don't usually repair
cheaper to replace... Best of luck to those deciding to go the non typical
route....
I must agree with Bob,, any changes definately adds considerable time
to the build it may not seem like it at first but it is the old snow ball
effect it just keeps getting longer and longer to finish... I have first
hand experience with it ... But I can see the light at the paint shop is
on.... Dale SR-033 N269DF Will post photos when final assemble is
completed....




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[bransom]

Thanks for all the input on ramengines and Soobs in general. I gotta admit
I'm still a bit hot and bothered in spite of it all. It just seems that if
ramengines is for real, a lot of the sort of work Ken faced is already
done, and with spiffy components where appropriate. I started my Rebel
with Soob in mind but got over that after sitting on the Yahoo soob list
for a year (and realizing I'd never get one lighter than a Lyc.) And
actually reading about the air pockets was the last straw for me then. So,
there is hope ...I can also come back to my senses! But the info or hype
is compelling: professionally built 140hp with a 2.2:1 redrive, 187lbs(!)
including alt, starter, exhaust, $14k, great fuel economy once running.
-Ben



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[Jim Cole]

There is a list of engine manufacturers and PSRU manufacturers in this
months KitPlanes for those who want to do some research.

Cheers
Jim R333


On 1/30/2008 11:03 PM, "Ken" <klehman@albedo.net> wrote:

The last spate of posts on Automobile engines is impressive. You guys
may have a better general understanding than some owners who purchased
them from a third party. As demonstrated by the gyrocopter group, the
soob remains one of the very best engines out there for running all day
at high power. But you still have to respect the details and carefully
consider any changes from stock.

The only chronic engine replacement problem I'm aware of in the car is
from overheating 2.5 engines after a coolant change due to entrapped
air. That is typically at the mileage mentioned and can occur locally in
cylinder heads without any high temperature indication to the driver as
I understand it.

I don't think it is the solution for this particular engine but a
continuous steam or vapor bleed from a high point of the coolant system
back to the reservoir is recommended on all conversions. Also from the
rad if it is located such that it can trap air.

Ken

Dale Fultz wrote:

Just an observation here,, I have changed 5 subaru engines here in my shop
in the last year and there isn't that many subarus in this area. All the
engines didn't have alot of miles on 77,000 to 132,000 ,, either. Not saying
they don't last just saying I have changed out some here. To each his own,
but I am not sold on the idea.. Dale SR-033 N269DF
-----

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