[rebel-builders] fiber vs. metal lock nuts

[Jim Cole]

Hi Ron, that was one of the things that I had to change for my inspector. I
had to use metal locking nuts any where around the muffler or muffler
brackets. Any where that heat might damage the fiber nut.

Cheers
Jim 333


On 12/11/2007 1:38 PM, "Ronald Shannon" <rshannon@cruzcom.com> wrote:

Assuming equal or better strength, is there any application where a metal
self-locking nut (ex. MS21042) should not be used instead of a fiber nut?
The MS21042's have a smaller wrench bearing area, but are lighter. It has
been suggested the metal grip may be harder on bolt threads, affecting bolt
re-use, but other than those that...what advantage does a fiber nut have
over a metal self-locking nut, if any?

Ron




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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

Yes Metal nuts only firewall forward. I think what Ron is asking thou... can
he use metal nuts everywhere else to save some weight and the answer is
yes...but you're right Ron.. they are a little harder on hardware that you
plan to disassemble and reassemble.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Cole" <jcole@rangroup.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 3:42 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] fiber vs. metal lock nuts

Hi Ron, that was one of the things that I had to change for my inspector.
I
had to use metal locking nuts any where around the muffler or muffler
brackets. Any where that heat might damage the fiber nut.

Cheers
Jim 333


On 12/11/2007 1:38 PM, "Ronald Shannon" <rshannon@cruzcom.com> wrote:

Assuming equal or better strength, is there any application where a metal
self-locking nut (ex. MS21042) should not be used instead of a fiber nut?
The MS21042's have a smaller wrench bearing area, but are lighter. It has
been suggested the metal grip may be harder on bolt threads, affecting
bolt
re-use, but other than those that...what advantage does a fiber nut have
over a metal self-locking nut, if any?

Ron




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[Ronald Shannon]

Thanks guys. As I thought. I wouldn't use fiber nuts in the FWF and, due to
weight, prefer not to use them anywhere. However, MAM specifies them all
over the place aft the FW. Perhaps the metal stop nuts weren't common when
the manual was written or something.

BTW --I think it bears repeating -- I've been using Click Bond nutplates in
all not-too-hot places I can (torque tube ends, stabilizer forward attach,
etc.) They're super -- only one hole needed instead of three and a lot less
work than riveted nuplates. Sometimes they're in short supply though. From
the Interesting Rumor Dept.: a reliable source mentioned Click Bond is
(supposed to be) supplying parts to the 787 but is one of the suppliers with
their own production problems, contributing to delays on the 787.



On 12/11/07, Wayne G. O'Shea <oifa@irishfield.on.ca> wrote:

Yes Metal nuts only firewall forward. I think what Ron is asking thou...
can
he use metal nuts everywhere else to save some weight and the answer is
yes...but you're right Ron.. they are a little harder on hardware that you
plan to disassemble and reassemble.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Cole" <jcole@rangroup.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 3:42 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] fiber vs. metal lock nuts

Hi Ron, that was one of the things that I had to change for my

inspector.

I
had to use metal locking nuts any where around the muffler or muffler
brackets. Any where that heat might damage the fiber nut.

Cheers
Jim 333

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[Drew Dalgleish]

At 02:33 PM 12/11/2007 -0800, you wrote:

Thanks guys. As I thought. I wouldn't use fiber nuts in the FWF and, due to
weight, prefer not to use them anywhere. However, MAM specifies them all
over the place aft the FW. Perhaps the metal stop nuts weren't common when
the manual was written or something.

Fibre lock nuts have been the industry standard for many years so it's hard
to blame MAM for specifying them. I don't think that the metal ones would
cause any harm but if you're doing it just to save weight I think emptying
your pocket change before flying would save a lot more. Is there any price
difference? Even a penny a nut would add up to a lot of money for MAM.
Drew



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[Michael Kraus]

FYI - Van's uses fiber lock nuts exclusively in all their kits too. I would have to believe it was for cost reasons.

For me, every critical item gets all metal nuts (control rod bolts, flap/aileron attachments, etc) and other non-critical items get the fiber nuts. Of course FWF is almost exclusively all metal nuts.
-Mike Kraus
RV-4 flying
RV-10 electrical
SR289 boxed awaiting assembly....

-----Original Message-----
From: "Drew Dalgleish" <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Sent: 12/11/07 6:09 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] fiber vs. metal lock nuts

At 02:33 PM 12/11/2007 -0800, you wrote:

Thanks guys. As I thought. I wouldn't use fiber nuts in the FWF and, due to
weight, prefer not to use them anywhere. However, MAM specifies them all
over the place aft the FW. Perhaps the metal stop nuts weren't common when
the manual was written or something.

Fibre lock nuts have been the industry standard for many years so it's hard
to blame MAM for specifying them. I don't think that the metal ones would
cause any harm but if you're doing it just to save weight I think emptying
your pocket change before flying would save a lot more. Is there any price
difference? Even a penny a nut would add up to a lot of money for MAM.
Drew



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[Rick Muller]

I think the only place that metal ones are suggested are in high temp areas
where the fiber would melt, i.e. engine compartment.

Rick Muller
SR70

On Dec 11, 2007 8:50 PM, Michael Kraus <n223rv@wolflakeairport.net> wrote:

FYI - Van's uses fiber lock nuts exclusively in all their kits too. I
would have to believe it was for cost reasons.

For me, every critical item gets all metal nuts (control rod bolts,
flap/aileron attachments, etc) and other non-critical items get the fiber
nuts. Of course FWF is almost exclusively all metal nuts.
-Mike Kraus
RV-4 flying
RV-10 electrical
SR289 boxed awaiting assembly....

-----Original Message-----
From: "Drew Dalgleish" <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Sent: 12/11/07 6:09 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] fiber vs. metal lock nuts

At 02:33 PM 12/11/2007 -0800, you wrote:

Thanks guys. As I thought. I wouldn't use fiber nuts in the FWF and, due

to

weight, prefer not to use them anywhere. However, MAM specifies them all
over the place aft the FW. Perhaps the metal stop nuts weren't common

when

the manual was written or something.

Fibre lock nuts have been the industry standard for many years so it's
hard
to blame MAM for specifying them. I don't think that the metal ones would
cause any harm but if you're doing it just to save weight I think
emptying
your pocket change before flying would save a lot more. Is there any price
difference? Even a penny a nut would add up to a lot of money for MAM.
Drew



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--
Rick Muller
Rick.H.Muller@gmail.com
303 641 6623




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