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[rebel-builders] FLAPERONS

Converted from Wildcat! database. (read only)
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Wayne G. O'Shea

[rebel-builders] FLAPERONS

Post by Wayne G. O'Shea » Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:01 pm

Get rid of the Caps Lock and many will help you.

What is your definition of "do not work"?

Yes some, like myself, have done a full mechanical set up to actuate flaps
and/or an electric actuator to get rid of the teleflex cable. You still lose
some flaps down at speed due to horn flexiing....but really there is no need
for flaps in a Rebel above 50 MPH.

----- Original Message -----
From: "LeRoy Taylor" <leroytaylor@charter.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 6:14 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] FLAPERONS

THE FLAPERONS WORK GREAT ON THE GROUND, BUT WHEN YOU GET OVER 50 MPH.
THEY DO NOT WORK. I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE FULL FLAPERONS THAT WORK WHEN YOU
NEED THEM. DOES ANYBODY HAVE A SOLID TYPE OF SYSTEM THAT WORKS WELL? I
CANNOT GET THE FLEX CABLE TO WORK LIKE IT SHOULD. LOOKING FOR ALTERNATIVES
ON THIS. LEROY



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Bob Patterson

[rebel-builders] FLAPERONS

Post by Bob Patterson » Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:01 pm

They DO work as they should ! If you pick up too much speed, the
flex in the cable allows them to retract to reduce the load on the
system. ...... 80 mph is MAX. flap speed. Similarly, as you
slow down, the flapperons come down further - on floats,
this is like "auto-land".... ;-)


This IS NOT A CESSNA !! DO NOT EXPECT IT TO WORK OR
FLY LIKE ONE !!! It's much better !!!! :-)

I have crossed the end of our home runway at 1,000 ft.,
fulled full flapperon, and made the first turnoff - used to do that
regularly. It's a matter of speed control ....

--
......bobp
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com
http://apatterson2.ordermygift.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Thursday 18 October 2007 22:14, LeRoy Taylor wrote:
THE FLAPERONS WORK GREAT ON THE GROUND, BUT WHEN YOU GET OVER 50 MPH.
THEY DO NOT WORK. I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE FULL FLAPERONS THAT WORK WHEN YOU
NEED THEM. DOES ANYBODY HAVE A SOLID TYPE OF SYSTEM THAT WORKS WELL? I
CANNOT GET THE FLEX CABLE TO WORK LIKE IT SHOULD. LOOKING FOR ALTERNATIVES
ON THIS. LEROY

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Drew Dalgleish

[rebel-builders] FLAPERONS

Post by Drew Dalgleish » Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:01 pm

At 05:14 PM 10/18/2007 -0500, you wrote:
THE FLAPERONS WORK GREAT ON THE GROUND, BUT WHEN YOU GET OVER 50 MPH.
THEY DO NOT WORK. I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE FULL FLAPERONS THAT WORK WHEN YOU
NEED THEM. DOES ANYBODY HAVE A SOLID TYPE OF SYSTEM THAT WORKS WELL? I
CANNOT GET THE FLEX CABLE TO WORK LIKE IT SHOULD. LOOKING FOR ALTERNATIVES
ON THIS. LEROY
Mine don't work very well either but the plane slips so easily it doesn't
matter. What do you need them for over 50mph? I was looking at a new rebel
nearing completion that has the cable running just in front of the torque
tube with extra clamps to support it along the way. The builder believes
that the more direct routing and extra support will give him less slop in
the system.
Drew



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Ken

[rebel-builders] FLAPERONS

Post by Ken » Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:01 pm

Drew Dalgleish wrote:
At 05:14 PM 10/18/2007 -0500, you wrote:

THE FLAPERONS WORK GREAT ON THE GROUND, BUT WHEN YOU GET OVER 50 MPH.
THEY DO NOT WORK. I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE FULL FLAPERONS THAT WORK WHEN YOU
NEED THEM. DOES ANYBODY HAVE A SOLID TYPE OF SYSTEM THAT WORKS WELL? I
CANNOT GET THE FLEX CABLE TO WORK LIKE IT SHOULD. LOOKING FOR ALTERNATIVES
ON THIS. LEROY

Mine don't work very well either but the plane slips so easily it doesn't
matter. What do you need them for over 50mph? I was looking at a new rebel
nearing completion that has the cable running just in front of the torque
tube with extra clamps to support it along the way. The builder believes
that the more direct routing and extra support will give him less slop in
the system.
Drew


My cable goes above the torque tube and it does have an Adel clamp up
there to minimize movement. That does seem to help and I'm happy with
the system. As it happens though I'm currently set up so that with full
flaperon, the bellcrank arm bottoms against the stop and it tends to
stay there as far as I know. It is a fairly firm pull to get that last
notch of movement which is set for 18degrees. I still like to sideslip
anyway though because its fun ;)

Did a couple of passes over Niagra Falls on the weekend for a guest.
Rebels see some awesome scenery!

Ken




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bransom

[rebel-builders] FLAPERONS

Post by bransom » Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:01 pm

Walter, Can you please remind us who you got the VGs from? IMO, $100 there
goes a long way toward some of the squawks on flaperon lever, etc.

My impression (from notes in the archive) is that there are flaperon
improvements by better tethering the control cable such as Ken mentioned,
maybe improving the lever so it won't pop out, and not deploying till
slowing on final. ??
-Ben
THE FLAPERONS WORK GREAT ON THE GROUND, BUT WHEN YOU GET OVER 50 MPH.
THEY DO NOT WORK. I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE FULL FLAPERONS THAT WORK WHEN YOU
NEED THEM. DOES ANYBODY HAVE A SOLID TYPE OF SYSTEM THAT WORKS WELL? I
CANNOT GET THE FLEX CABLE TO WORK LIKE IT SHOULD. LOOKING FOR ALTERNATIVES
ON THIS. LEROY

Mine don't work very well either but the plane slips so easily it doesn't
matter. What do you need them for over 50mph? I was looking at a new rebel
nearing completion that has the cable running just in front of the torque
tube with extra clamps to support it along the way. The builder believes
that the more direct routing and extra support will give him less slop in
the system.
Drew


My cable goes above the torque tube and it does have an Adel clamp up
there to minimize movement. That does seem to help and I'm happy with
the system. As it happens though I'm currently set up so that with full
flaperon, the bellcrank arm bottoms against the stop and it tends to
stay there as far as I know. It is a fairly firm pull to get that last
notch of movement which is set for 18degrees. I still like to sideslip
anyway though because its fun ;)

Did a couple of passes over Niagra Falls on the weekend for a guest.
Rebels see some awesome scenery!

Ken


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Walter Klatt

[rebel-builders] FLAPERONS

Post by Walter Klatt » Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:01 pm

I have mine set up that way too, so that on full flap, it is tight against
the bottom. I think that reduces slack when in that position.

Despite the slop/slack, I have more than enough available for take-off or
landing. On landing, I actually only use 1/2 flap, because I don't ever need
to go any slower, even when fully loaded. Back when I was on wheels, I
sometimes used full flap on landing, only when I wanted a real short one and
was dragging it into an ultralight field.

As for slips, very rarely do I need to do that, especially with the floats.
If I need to lose altitude quickly, all I do is slow it to about 60, and she
is dropping like a rock.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Ken
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 5:02 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] FLAPERONS

Drew Dalgleish wrote:
At 05:14 PM 10/18/2007 -0500, you wrote:

THE FLAPERONS WORK GREAT ON THE GROUND, BUT WHEN YOU GET OVER 50 MPH.
THEY DO NOT WORK. I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE FULL FLAPERONS THAT WORK WHEN YOU
NEED THEM. DOES ANYBODY HAVE A SOLID TYPE OF SYSTEM THAT WORKS WELL? I
CANNOT GET THE FLEX CABLE TO WORK LIKE IT SHOULD. LOOKING FOR ALTERNATIVES
ON THIS. LEROY

Mine don't work very well either but the plane slips so easily it doesn't
matter. What do you need them for over 50mph? I was looking at a new rebel
nearing completion that has the cable running just in front of the torque
tube with extra clamps to support it along the way. The builder believes
that the more direct routing and extra support will give him less slop in
the system.
Drew


My cable goes above the torque tube and it does have an Adel clamp up
there to minimize movement. That does seem to help and I'm happy with
the system. As it happens though I'm currently set up so that with full
flaperon, the bellcrank arm bottoms against the stop and it tends to
stay there as far as I know. It is a fairly firm pull to get that last
notch of movement which is set for 18degrees. I still like to sideslip
anyway though because its fun ;)

Did a couple of passes over Niagra Falls on the weekend for a guest.
Rebels see some awesome scenery!

Ken




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Walter Klatt

[rebel-builders] FLAPERONS

Post by Walter Klatt » Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:01 pm

Mine were the Harrison Design ones from Landshorter.com.
http://www.landshorter.com/

I initially bought them for another plane, but since you can temporarily
stick them on with double sided tape, I thought I would first try them on
the Rebel. I couldn't believe it the first time I went to stall it, and
after testing them in every situation I could think of, decided to keep them
and buy a second set.

What is really ironic though, is that on the other airplane, they don't do
much, and only lower the stall by about 3 or 4 mph. But on the Rebel, they
made a huge difference.

I think Garry W. has them on his now, too.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
bransom@dcsol.com
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 6:34 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] FLAPERONS

Walter, Can you please remind us who you got the VGs from? IMO, $100 there
goes a long way toward some of the squawks on flaperon lever, etc.

My impression (from notes in the archive) is that there are flaperon
improvements by better tethering the control cable such as Ken mentioned,
maybe improving the lever so it won't pop out, and not deploying till
slowing on final. ??
-Ben
THE FLAPERONS WORK GREAT ON THE GROUND, BUT WHEN YOU GET OVER 50 MPH.
THEY DO NOT WORK. I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE FULL FLAPERONS THAT WORK WHEN YOU
NEED THEM. DOES ANYBODY HAVE A SOLID TYPE OF SYSTEM THAT WORKS WELL? I
CANNOT GET THE FLEX CABLE TO WORK LIKE IT SHOULD. LOOKING FOR
ALTERNATIVES
ON THIS. LEROY

Mine don't work very well either but the plane slips so easily it doesn't
matter. What do you need them for over 50mph? I was looking at a new
rebel
nearing completion that has the cable running just in front of the torque
tube with extra clamps to support it along the way. The builder believes
that the more direct routing and extra support will give him less slop in
the system.
Drew


My cable goes above the torque tube and it does have an Adel clamp up
there to minimize movement. That does seem to help and I'm happy with
the system. As it happens though I'm currently set up so that with full
flaperon, the bellcrank arm bottoms against the stop and it tends to
stay there as far as I know. It is a fairly firm pull to get that last
notch of movement which is set for 18degrees. I still like to sideslip
anyway though because its fun ;)

Did a couple of passes over Niagra Falls on the weekend for a guest.
Rebels see some awesome scenery!

Ken


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Ron Shannon

[rebel-builders] FLAPERONS

Post by Ron Shannon » Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:01 pm

Walter,

What position on the wing (chord) did you install your Harrison VG's?

Ron


Walter Klatt wrote:
Mine were the Harrison Design ones from Landshorter.com.
http://www.landshorter.com/

I initially bought them for another plane, but since you can temporarily
stick them on with double sided tape, I thought I would first try them on
the Rebel. I couldn't believe it the first time I went to stall it, and
after testing them in every situation I could think of, decided to keep them
and buy a second set.

What is really ironic though, is that on the other airplane, they don't do
much, and only lower the stall by about 3 or 4 mph. But on the Rebel, they
made a huge difference.

I think Garry W. has them on his now, too.

Walter

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Walter Klatt

[rebel-builders] FLAPERONS

Post by Walter Klatt » Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:01 pm

I centered mine exactly on the 10 % chord position, as they first suggested,
and seemed to be perfect. With the other plane, I started at 10, but it did
hardly anything, and so he suggested 6 or 7, and that's where I ended up
with that one. But the Rebel seemed to work fine at 10%.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Ron
Shannon
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 6:36 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] FLAPERONS

Walter,

What position on the wing (chord) did you install your Harrison VG's?

Ron


Walter Klatt wrote:
Mine were the Harrison Design ones from Landshorter.com.
http://www.landshorter.com/

I initially bought them for another plane, but since you can temporarily
stick them on with double sided tape, I thought I would first try them on
the Rebel. I couldn't believe it the first time I went to stall it, and
after testing them in every situation I could think of, decided to keep
them
and buy a second set.

What is really ironic though, is that on the other airplane, they don't do
much, and only lower the stall by about 3 or 4 mph. But on the Rebel, they
made a huge difference.

I think Garry W. has them on his now, too.

Walter

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Rick Harper

[rebel-builders] FLAPERONS

Post by Rick Harper » Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:01 pm

Same with ours !!!

10 % works a treat - ( we used Harrisons VG's too)

Problem is .... now we "touch down" - tailwheel first EVERY time ! ...

(can get exciting ! :o(

Rick "Biggus" Harper
541R
----- Original Message -----
From: Walter Klatt
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 11:44 AM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] FLAPERONS


I centered mine exactly on the 10 % chord position, as they first suggested,
and seemed to be perfect. With the other plane, I started at 10, but it did
hardly anything, and so he suggested 6 or 7, and that's where I ended up
with that one. But the Rebel seemed to work fine at 10%.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Ron
Shannon
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 6:36 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] FLAPERONS

Walter,

What position on the wing (chord) did you install your Harrison VG's?

Ron


Walter Klatt wrote:
Mine were the Harrison Design ones from Landshorter.com.
http://www.landshorter.com/

I initially bought them for another plane, but since you can temporarily
stick them on with double sided tape, I thought I would first try them on
the Rebel. I couldn't believe it the first time I went to stall it, and
after testing them in every situation I could think of, decided to keep
them
and buy a second set.

What is really ironic though, is that on the other airplane, they don't do
much, and only lower the stall by about 3 or 4 mph. But on the Rebel, they
made a huge difference.

I think Garry W. has them on his now, too.

Walter

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Ken

[rebel-builders] FLAPERONS

Post by Ken » Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:01 pm

What about the stabilizer? In between every rivet on the rear spar or
does it need that many? Did it help much?
I purchased the VG's for the stab but haven't tried them yet.
Occasionally a bit more elevator up authority might be nice.
With this leading edge cuff it seems tailwheel first are my best
landings, otherwise it just doesn't want to stay down.

Sounds like wing VG's are well worth it in places that don't have much
snow...

Ken

Rick Harper wrote:
Same with ours !!!

10 % works a treat - ( we used Harrisons VG's too)

Problem is .... now we "touch down" - tailwheel first EVERY time ! ...

(can get exciting ! :o(

Rick "Biggus" Harper
541R
----- Original Message -----
From: Walter Klatt
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 11:44 AM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] FLAPERONS


I centered mine exactly on the 10 % chord position, as they first suggested,
and seemed to be perfect. With the other plane, I started at 10, but it did
hardly anything, and so he suggested 6 or 7, and that's where I ended up
with that one. But the Rebel seemed to work fine at 10%.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Ron
Shannon
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 6:36 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] FLAPERONS

Walter,

What position on the wing (chord) did you install your Harrison VG's?

Ron




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