[rebel-builders] 360 Prop

[ray.mason]

Totally redesigned by an Aeronautical enginneer. Lance Wheeler and his BS
have been long gone for a couple years now.

Ray

On 10/7/2007 9:13 AM, beep@sympatico.ca wrote to rebel-builders:

->
-> Hi Ray !
->
-> This looks like the old NSI C.A.P. prop - avoid it !!!!
->
-> There are at least 2 aircraft in Canada that were destroyed
-> by the NSI prop coming apart !! Transport Canada investigators
-> identified design & manufacturing defects .... and, of course,
-> there were the NSI business ethics ...... ;-(
->
-> --
-> ......bobp
-> http://www.prosumers.ca
-> http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
-> http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com
-> http://apatterson2.ordermygift.com
->
-> -------------------------------orig.-------------------------
-> On Sunday 07 October 2007 18:59, ray.mason@dcsol.com wrote:
-> > Some composite props do not have a nickel leading edge and with out
this
-> > water operations will chew the heck out of it. Walter you might want to
try
-> > the new MPS cockpit adjustable prop. 74" with a nickel leading edge 23
LBS.
-> > http://www.maxwellpropulsion.com/
-> >
-> > On 10/7/2007 4:54 AM, walter.klatt@shaw.ca wrote to rebel-builders:
-> >
-> > -> I expect a little more than 180 hp with my new XP360 as well. It is
-> > using -> mostly Superior components, but will have the ECI cylinders.
-> > Supposedly -> these flow a little more as well, and with EI on one side.
-> > ->
-> > -> As for the solid crank 360, Sensenich clearly specifies that there are
-> > no -> rpm restrictions, so that is what I was going by with my
statement.
-> > -> http://www2.sensenich.com/direct/murphy.htm
-> > ->
-> > -> I agree that the Sensenich props are heavy, at 40 pounds, and if I
can
-> > find
-> > -> a lighter one that will hold up to water operations, and perform as
-> > well, -> I'm definitely interested.
-> > ->
-> > -> I have heard you guys talk about the Prince, but I need more
numbers to
-> > help
-> > -> with my assessment. Again, what I need to know first is take-off or
-> > static -> rpm, climb rpm, and then WOT straight and level rpm. And it
has
-> > to be a -> Rebel or Elite floatplane.
-> > ->
-> > -> Walter
-> > ->
-> > -> -----Original Message-----
-> > -> From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On
Behalf
-> > Of Bob
-> > -> Patterson
-> > -> Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 9:25 PM
-> > -> To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
-> > -> Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] 360 Prop
-> > ->
-> > ->
-> > -> Gee Walter !!
-> > ->
-> > -> If you're going for a 360, why not pop for a Prince prop ??
-> > -> It'll save you over 20 lb. on the nose - a very good thing !!!
-> > -> (It will be an odd number - like maybe 76 x 46 .... )
-> > ->
-> > -> I'm not sure about the solid crank helping with the
-> > -> harmonic ranges - those are strong power pulses ....
-> > -> but the Prince should be a lot better at avoiding problems.
-> > -> Pierre used an XP-360 that was polished, ported, and,
-> > -> most importantly, balanced - it dyno'd at 196 hp !!
-> > -> Showed over 2,200 fpm climb with the Prince ..... :-))
-> > ->
-> > -> --
-> > -> ......bobp
-> > -> http://www.prosumers.ca
-> > -> http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
-> > -> http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com
-> > -> http://apatterson2.ordermygift.com
-> > ->
-> > -> -------------------------------orig.-------------------------
-> > -> On Saturday 06 October 2007 14:25, Walter Klatt wrote:
-> > -> > Is there anyone on the list using the Sensenich 2 blade metal 76
inch
-> > -> > diameter prop? I would be interested in your static or take-off
rpm,
-> > climb
-> > -> > rpm and wot straight and level rpm. Specify which pitch you are
using.
-> > I
-> > -> am
-> > -> > looking at possibly using the 76 X 56 in my new 360. It will have
the
-> > -> solid
-> > -> > crank, so no rpm restrictions.
-> > -> >
-> > -> >
-> > -> >
-> > -> > Walter
-> > -> >
->
->




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[Rick Harper]

G'day Everyone ! ...

I just took a look at the "Maxwell site" .... (engine / propulsion systems) .....

I gotta say - it looks j....u....s.....t.... like the OLD N.S.I. setup ... that went belly up & took a lot of people's money with them

NSI still owes a good friend of mine a complete firewall fwd package .... and he's STILL waiting for it ..... years later ... and he's out of pocket $20,000 U.S. PLUS ... :o(

Biggus
541R
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Patterson
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 4:09 AM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] 360 Prop



Hi Walter !

My concern with RPM & harmonic problems was not with just
the prop - Sensenich may be very happy, but I've seen videos of
the crankshaft in a 360 at rpm between 1900 & 2450 .....
It can really flex !!! I'm also surprised that they say 2500 rpm
gives almost full power -- they are rated at 180 hp @ 2,700 rpm.
We've been towing gliders with 360's in Super Cubs for many
years - one of the challenges is proper cooling on descent -
you need to keep the power up so it cools slowly. The problem
is - you can't come back gradually on the power - only a few
seconds allowed between 2450 and 1900 .... run it there
continuously, and you'll break the crank !

Robin & I both found that the 360's ran noticeably rougher
at & below 2500 - I usually used 2550 as minimum cruise -
Robin preferred 2650+ !!

The previous owner of the Rebel Garry is talking about
wrote several observations - they should be in the archives.
I recall he said something to the effect that the Prince
gave him 2500 on takeoff, 2500 on climb, and 2550 wot,
straight & level ... The whole idea is that it twists with
load, giving "almost constant speed". The one I test flew
certainly did that, although it was too fine overall for
the 196 hp !! It would happily buzz through 3,000 rpm
if the speed went over about 85 in climb !!! Pierre then
went up 4" in pitch - a bit too much the other way, unfortunately ....

The Prince weighs only 9 lb..... !!!! :-)

There are over 30 Rebels flying with them - surely
somebody will jump in ...

--
......bobp
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com
http://apatterson2.ordermygift.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Sunday 07 October 2007 13:54, Walter Klatt wrote:

I expect a little more than 180 hp with my new XP360 as well. It is using
mostly Superior components, but will have the ECI cylinders. Supposedly
these flow a little more as well, and with EI on one side.

As for the solid crank 360, Sensenich clearly specifies that there are no
rpm restrictions, so that is what I was going by with my statement.
http://www2.sensenich.com/direct/murphy.htm

I agree that the Sensenich props are heavy, at 40 pounds, and if I can find
a lighter one that will hold up to water operations, and perform as well,
I'm definitely interested.

I have heard you guys talk about the Prince, but I need more numbers to
help with my assessment. Again, what I need to know first is take-off or
static rpm, climb rpm, and then WOT straight and level rpm. And it has to
be a Rebel or Elite floatplane.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Bob
Patterson
Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 9:25 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] 360 Prop


Gee Walter !!

If you're going for a 360, why not pop for a Prince prop ??
It'll save you over 20 lb. on the nose - a very good thing !!!
(It will be an odd number - like maybe 76 x 46 .... )

I'm not sure about the solid crank helping with the
harmonic ranges - those are strong power pulses ....
but the Prince should be a lot better at avoiding problems.
Pierre used an XP-360 that was polished, ported, and,
most importantly, balanced - it dyno'd at 196 hp !!
Showed over 2,200 fpm climb with the Prince ..... :-))

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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

Yes it's the same place Rick...look at the "Firesale" item page. All the CAP
120/140 parts are there. Can never understand why someone would buy someone
elses mess instead of starting a clean page.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Harper" <rjwh@optusnet.com.au>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 6:39 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] 360 Prop

G'day Everyone ! ...

I just took a look at the "Maxwell site" .... (engine / propulsion
systems) .....

I gotta say - it looks j....u....s.....t.... like the OLD N.S.I. setup
... that went belly up & took a lot of people's money with them

NSI still owes a good friend of mine a complete firewall fwd package ....
and he's STILL waiting for it ..... years later ... and he's out of
pocket $20,000 U.S. PLUS ... :o(

Biggus
541R
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Patterson
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 4:09 AM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] 360 Prop



Hi Walter !

My concern with RPM & harmonic problems was not with just
the prop - Sensenich may be very happy, but I've seen videos of
the crankshaft in a 360 at rpm between 1900 & 2450 .....
It can really flex !!! I'm also surprised that they say 2500 rpm
gives almost full power -- they are rated at 180 hp @ 2,700 rpm.
We've been towing gliders with 360's in Super Cubs for many
years - one of the challenges is proper cooling on descent -
you need to keep the power up so it cools slowly. The problem
is - you can't come back gradually on the power - only a few
seconds allowed between 2450 and 1900 .... run it there
continuously, and you'll break the crank !

Robin & I both found that the 360's ran noticeably rougher
at & below 2500 - I usually used 2550 as minimum cruise -
Robin preferred 2650+ !!

The previous owner of the Rebel Garry is talking about
wrote several observations - they should be in the archives.
I recall he said something to the effect that the Prince
gave him 2500 on takeoff, 2500 on climb, and 2550 wot,
straight & level ... The whole idea is that it twists with
load, giving "almost constant speed". The one I test flew
certainly did that, although it was too fine overall for
the 196 hp !! It would happily buzz through 3,000 rpm
if the speed went over about 85 in climb !!! Pierre then
went up 4" in pitch - a bit too much the other way, unfortunately ....

The Prince weighs only 9 lb..... !!!! :-)

There are over 30 Rebels flying with them - surely
somebody will jump in ...

--
......bobp
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com
http://apatterson2.ordermygift.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Sunday 07 October 2007 13:54, Walter Klatt wrote:

I expect a little more than 180 hp with my new XP360 as well. It is

using

mostly Superior components, but will have the ECI cylinders. Supposedly
these flow a little more as well, and with EI on one side.

As for the solid crank 360, Sensenich clearly specifies that there are

no

rpm restrictions, so that is what I was going by with my statement.
http://www2.sensenich.com/direct/murphy.htm

I agree that the Sensenich props are heavy, at 40 pounds, and if I can

find

a lighter one that will hold up to water operations, and perform as

well,

I'm definitely interested.

I have heard you guys talk about the Prince, but I need more numbers to
help with my assessment. Again, what I need to know first is take-off

or

static rpm, climb rpm, and then WOT straight and level rpm. And it has

to

be a Rebel or Elite floatplane.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of

Bob

Patterson
Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 9:25 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] 360 Prop


Gee Walter !!

If you're going for a 360, why not pop for a Prince prop ??
It'll save you over 20 lb. on the nose - a very good thing !!!
(It will be an odd number - like maybe 76 x 46 .... )

I'm not sure about the solid crank helping with the
harmonic ranges - those are strong power pulses ....
but the Prince should be a lot better at avoiding problems.
Pierre used an XP-360 that was polished, ported, and,
most importantly, balanced - it dyno'd at 196 hp !!
Showed over 2,200 fpm climb with the Prince ..... :-))

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[Bob Patterson]

Hi Garry !

I meant the "former - former owner" - the fellow from Louisiana (?)
who installed the Prince originally ! And it DOES have leading edge
protection ...... Unless the prop was changed later ...

It might well be a tach problem, because the symptoms you describe
indicate a high weight, OR a lack of power .... The 80 hp. Rotax Rebel
would not pull ANY reflex flapperon if it was heavily loaded, on a hot day.
Generally, over 115 hp or so will pull 2 notches of negative in standard
conditions... A quick check with an optical tach should help there.

That engine could be getting tired - the one that Bob Johnson had
on his Rebel was quite zippy.... made it one of the fastest Rebels around,
with a full 160 hp ! Might be worth doing a compression test - good
idea anyway for importing - 'annual inspection' ...

--
......bobp
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com
http://apatterson2.ordermygift.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Sunday 07 October 2007 18:48, Garry Wright wrote:

Whoa there big fella. That Prince prop in N295RT will easily overspeed
that engine in any flight regime in this area. It may be that the tach
is not calibrated properly or the prop performs differently from what I
saw at higher altitudes. He was based at Flagstaff so density altitudes
of 7500' on summer days would be the norm. That suggests the engine
would not be making the HP I experienced between 3000' and 4500'.

On net, I would say that I cannot witness that there was any constant
speed effect because it was a very windy day. The thing that puzzled me
about the flight was that the aircraft seemed to want more HP to fly in
reflex than with zero flaps. It will be interesting when John gets that
plane to lower altitudes and see what happens then.

Garry

Bob Patterson wrote:

Hi Walter !

The previous owner of the Rebel Garry is talking about

wrote several observations - they should be in the archives.
I recall he said something to the effect that the Prince
gave him 2500 on takeoff, 2500 on climb, and 2550 wot,
straight & level ... The whole idea is that it twists with
load, giving "almost constant speed".

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[Drew Dalgleish]

At 01:37 PM 10/7/2007 -0700, you wrote:

Thanks, Drew, that is the kind of information I am looking for. Sounds like
it is a very good match then for you. That's the kind of take off and WOT
rpms I am looking for too, on the 360. Did you have a Sensenich before the
Prince, or is this the only prop you tried with your new engine? What
diameter and pitch is your Prince prop? And what do they cost? What kind of
spinners are available for them?

Hi Walter I went with the prince prop right from the start with the new
engine. Prop is 74"/46" cost just over $2000 there's a good price
calculator at their website and I got a spinner from Wayne O'shea

When your plane is lightly loaded, let's say at 1650 pounds on the floats,
can you remember the exact climb rate? Also the exact altitude and
temperature at the time. I know that is asking for a lot, but if you can
give me any climb rate with whatever associated numbers you can remember,
that at least would help me compare it to my old engine and prop combo.

I rarely use best rate of climb cuz I'm too short to see over the nose.
With light loading and taking off at under 1000'Asl I would expect to see
about 1500fpm

I went with the LS Plasma III and a mag, just for reliability and
simplicity. With 2 EI, you should have 2 batteries, and ideally two
alternators. Apparently these EI's have been known to fail, usually due to
some electrical problem, like over voltage (alternator problem). And both
can get knocked out at once, if you don't have them separated.

Walter

I used a P Mag and an E Mag on mine the p mag has it's own alternator and
will self power if I lose ships power.
Drew



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[Walter Klatt]

That 1500 fpm, is that on floats or wheels? Have you had a chance to fly
with some other Rebel floatplanes and compare performance?

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Drew
Dalgleish
Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 6:32 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] 360 Prop

At 01:37 PM 10/7/2007 -0700, you wrote:

Thanks, Drew, that is the kind of information I am looking for. Sounds like
it is a very good match then for you. That's the kind of take off and WOT
rpms I am looking for too, on the 360. Did you have a Sensenich before the
Prince, or is this the only prop you tried with your new engine? What
diameter and pitch is your Prince prop? And what do they cost? What kind of
spinners are available for them?

Hi Walter I went with the prince prop right from the start with the new
engine. Prop is 74"/46" cost just over $2000 there's a good price
calculator at their website and I got a spinner from Wayne O'shea

When your plane is lightly loaded, let's say at 1650 pounds on the floats,
can you remember the exact climb rate? Also the exact altitude and
temperature at the time. I know that is asking for a lot, but if you can
give me any climb rate with whatever associated numbers you can remember,
that at least would help me compare it to my old engine and prop combo.

I rarely use best rate of climb cuz I'm too short to see over the nose.
With light loading and taking off at under 1000'Asl I would expect to see
about 1500fpm

I went with the LS Plasma III and a mag, just for reliability and
simplicity. With 2 EI, you should have 2 batteries, and ideally two
alternators. Apparently these EI's have been known to fail, usually due to
some electrical problem, like over voltage (alternator problem). And both
can get knocked out at once, if you don't have them separated.

Walter

I used a P Mag and an E Mag on mine the p mag has it's own alternator and
will self power if I lose ships power.
Drew



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[Drew Dalgleish]

At 06:54 PM 10/7/2007 -0700, you wrote:

That 1500 fpm, is that on floats or wheels? Have you had a chance to fly
with some other Rebel floatplanes and compare performance?

Walter

That's on float's. No.

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Drew
Dalgleish
Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 6:32 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] 360 Prop

At 01:37 PM 10/7/2007 -0700, you wrote:

Thanks, Drew, that is the kind of information I am looking for. Sounds like
it is a very good match then for you. That's the kind of take off and WOT
rpms I am looking for too, on the 360. Did you have a Sensenich before the
Prince, or is this the only prop you tried with your new engine? What
diameter and pitch is your Prince prop? And what do they cost? What kind of
spinners are available for them?

Hi Walter I went with the prince prop right from the start with the new
engine. Prop is 74"/46" cost just over $2000 there's a good price
calculator at their website and I got a spinner from Wayne O'shea

When your plane is lightly loaded, let's say at 1650 pounds on the floats,
can you remember the exact climb rate? Also the exact altitude and
temperature at the time. I know that is asking for a lot, but if you can
give me any climb rate with whatever associated numbers you can remember,
that at least would help me compare it to my old engine and prop combo.

I rarely use best rate of climb cuz I'm too short to see over the nose.
With light loading and taking off at under 1000'Asl I would expect to see
about 1500fpm

I went with the LS Plasma III and a mag, just for reliability and
simplicity. With 2 EI, you should have 2 batteries, and ideally two
alternators. Apparently these EI's have been known to fail, usually due to
some electrical problem, like over voltage (alternator problem). And both
can get knocked out at once, if you don't have them separated.

Walter

I used a P Mag and an E Mag on mine the p mag has it's own alternator and
will self power if I lose ships power.
Drew



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Drew



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[Walter Klatt]

Well, that is definitely a good climb rate for floats with 160 hp, so that/s
promising. What about top speed. What do you top out at when you hit 2750
rpm?

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Drew
Dalgleish
Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 6:56 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] 360 Prop

At 06:54 PM 10/7/2007 -0700, you wrote:

That 1500 fpm, is that on floats or wheels? Have you had a chance to fly
with some other Rebel floatplanes and compare performance?

Walter

That's on float's. No.

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Drew
Dalgleish
Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 6:32 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] 360 Prop

At 01:37 PM 10/7/2007 -0700, you wrote:

Thanks, Drew, that is the kind of information I am looking for. Sounds

like

it is a very good match then for you. That's the kind of take off and WOT
rpms I am looking for too, on the 360. Did you have a Sensenich before the
Prince, or is this the only prop you tried with your new engine? What
diameter and pitch is your Prince prop? And what do they cost? What kind

of

spinners are available for them?

Hi Walter I went with the prince prop right from the start with the new
engine. Prop is 74"/46" cost just over $2000 there's a good price
calculator at their website and I got a spinner from Wayne O'shea

When your plane is lightly loaded, let's say at 1650 pounds on the floats,
can you remember the exact climb rate? Also the exact altitude and
temperature at the time. I know that is asking for a lot, but if you can
give me any climb rate with whatever associated numbers you can remember,
that at least would help me compare it to my old engine and prop combo.

I rarely use best rate of climb cuz I'm too short to see over the nose.
With light loading and taking off at under 1000'Asl I would expect to see
about 1500fpm

I went with the LS Plasma III and a mag, just for reliability and
simplicity. With 2 EI, you should have 2 batteries, and ideally two
alternators. Apparently these EI's have been known to fail, usually due to
some electrical problem, like over voltage (alternator problem). And both
can get knocked out at once, if you don't have them separated.

Walter

I used a P Mag and an E Mag on mine the p mag has it's own alternator and
will self power if I lose ships power.
Drew



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Drew



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[Drew Dalgleish]

At 07:35 PM 10/7/2007 -0700, you wrote:

Well, that is definitely a good climb rate for floats with 160 hp, so that/s
promising. What about top speed. What do you top out at when you hit 2750
rpm?

Walter

Well it's an 0-320 but it may make more than 160hp. I posted my top speed
for you a couple months ago 115mph @ 8000' sticks in my mind but check the
archives cuz my memory ain't always perfect.
Drew



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[Walter Klatt]

Thanks Drew, that's good information.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Drew
Dalgleish
Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 7:57 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] 360 Prop

At 07:35 PM 10/7/2007 -0700, you wrote:

Well, that is definitely a good climb rate for floats with 160 hp, so

that/s

promising. What about top speed. What do you top out at when you hit 2750
rpm?

Walter

Well it's an 0-320 but it may make more than 160hp. I posted my top speed
for you a couple months ago 115mph @ 8000' sticks in my mind but check the
archives cuz my memory ain't always perfect.
Drew



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[Garry Wright]

I think all that will have to be done for the import process. But it
doesn't make any sense that it would spin up above the target rpm with a
tired engine. I guess what puzzles me most is still the need for 0 flaps
- we were below gross, had plenty of available throttle but it still
wanted more power for reflex than zero flaps. Hmmm...

Garry

Bob Patterson wrote:

Hi Garry !

I meant the "former - former owner" - the fellow from Louisiana (?)
who installed the Prince originally ! And it DOES have leading edge
protection ...... Unless the prop was changed later ...

It might well be a tach problem, because the symptoms you describe
indicate a high weight, OR a lack of power .... The 80 hp. Rotax Rebel
would not pull ANY reflex flapperon if it was heavily loaded, on a hot day.
Generally, over 115 hp or so will pull 2 notches of negative in standard
conditions... A quick check with an optical tach should help there.

That engine could be getting tired - the one that Bob Johnson had
on his Rebel was quite zippy.... made it one of the fastest Rebels around,
with a full 160 hp ! Might be worth doing a compression test - good
idea anyway for importing - 'annual inspection' ...

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[Bob Patterson]

Then it sounds more like it might be a tach problem ... it wasn't
developing enough power to pull reflex without more throttle ......

Still comes down to too much weight OR not enough power !
Looking more like a lack of power ... How fast was the cruise ??

--
......bobp
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com
http://apatterson2.ordermygift.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Monday 08 October 2007 04:17, Garry Wright wrote:

I think all that will have to be done for the import process. But it
doesn't make any sense that it would spin up above the target rpm with a
tired engine. I guess what puzzles me most is still the need for 0 flaps
- we were below gross, had plenty of available throttle but it still
wanted more power for reflex than zero flaps. Hmmm...

Garry

Bob Patterson wrote:

Hi Garry !

I meant the "former - former owner" - the fellow from Louisiana (?)
who installed the Prince originally ! And it DOES have leading edge
protection ...... Unless the prop was changed later ...

It might well be a tach problem, because the symptoms you describe
indicate a high weight, OR a lack of power .... The 80 hp. Rotax Rebel
would not pull ANY reflex flapperon if it was heavily loaded, on a hot
day. Generally, over 115 hp or so will pull 2 notches of negative in
standard conditions... A quick check with an optical tach should
help there.

That engine could be getting tired - the one that Bob Johnson had
on his Rebel was quite zippy.... made it one of the fastest Rebels
around, with a full 160 hp ! Might be worth doing a compression test -
good idea anyway for importing - 'annual inspection' ...

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[Walter Klatt]

Just another question on the speed, Drew. Have you done a full power run at
low altitudes and what was the rpm and speed? At 8000, that would be your
max cruise speed, since your engine can't do more than 75% power at that
altitude.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Drew
Dalgleish
Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 7:57 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] 360 Prop

At 07:35 PM 10/7/2007 -0700, you wrote:

Well, that is definitely a good climb rate for floats with 160 hp, so

that/s

promising. What about top speed. What do you top out at when you hit 2750
rpm?

Walter

Well it's an 0-320 but it may make more than 160hp. I posted my top speed
for you a couple months ago 115mph @ 8000' sticks in my mind but check the
archives cuz my memory ain't always perfect.
Drew



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[Garry Wright]

Cruise was a bit tough to figure as we were bucking a 40 knot wind about
30* off the nose. ASI indicated about 100 but that means diddly. I'm
thinking tach as well. It needs a look.

G

Bob Patterson wrote:

Then it sounds more like it might be a tach problem ... it wasn't
developing enough power to pull reflex without more throttle ......

Still comes down to too much weight OR not enough power !
Looking more like a lack of power ... How fast was the cruise ??

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[Drew Dalgleish]

At 06:27 AM 10/8/2007 -0700, you wrote:

Just another question on the speed, Drew. Have you done a full power run at
low altitudes and what was the rpm and speed? At 8000, that would be your
max cruise speed, since your engine can't do more than 75% power at that
altitude.

Walter

Sorry Walter I haven't and I probably won't. To me running at full throttle
straight and level at low altitudes is too hard on the engine.
Drew



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