[rebel-builders] 360 Prop

Wayne G. O'Shea · Post by **Wayne G. O'Shea** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:57 pm

I can't remember what is on Bob's Elite with his 180hp O-360. I'll fire him
an email and ask. He had it re-pitched a bit finer at Hope this spring...and
it really performs well now.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
To: "Rebel-Builders" <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 10:25 AM
Subject: [rebel-builders] 360 Prop

Is there anyone on the list using the Sensenich 2 blade metal 76 inch
diameter prop? I would be interested in your static or take-off rpm, climb
rpm and wot straight and level rpm. Specify which pitch you are using. I
am
looking at possibly using the 76 X 56 in my new 360. It will have the
solid
crank, so no rpm restrictions.

Walter

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Drew Dalgleish · Post by **Drew Dalgleish** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:57 pm

Hey Walter I might have a line on an MT electric 3 blade prop with beta if
you're interested I'll find out more.

At 06:37 PM 10/6/2007 -0400, you wrote:

I can't remember what is on Bob's Elite with his 180hp O-360. I'll fire him
an email and ask. He had it re-pitched a bit finer at Hope this spring...and
it really performs well now.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
To: "Rebel-Builders" <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 10:25 AM
Subject: [rebel-builders] 360 Prop

Is there anyone on the list using the Sensenich 2 blade metal 76 inch
diameter prop? I would be interested in your static or take-off rpm, climb
rpm and wot straight and level rpm. Specify which pitch you are using. I
am
looking at possibly using the 76 X 56 in my new 360. It will have the
solid
crank, so no rpm restrictions.

Walter

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Drew

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Bob Patterson · Post by **Bob Patterson** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:57 pm

Gee Walter !!

If you're going for a 360, why not pop for a Prince prop ??
It'll save you over 20 lb. on the nose - a very good thing !!!
(It will be an odd number - like maybe 76 x 46 .... )

I'm not sure about the solid crank helping with the
harmonic ranges - those are strong power pulses ....
but the Prince should be a lot better at avoiding problems.
Pierre used an XP-360 that was polished, ported, and,
most importantly, balanced - it dyno'd at 196 hp !!
Showed over 2,200 fpm climb with the Prince ..... :-))

--
......bobp
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com
http://apatterson2.ordermygift.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Saturday 06 October 2007 14:25, Walter Klatt wrote:

Is there anyone on the list using the Sensenich 2 blade metal 76 inch
diameter prop? I would be interested in your static or take-off rpm, climb
rpm and wot straight and level rpm. Specify which pitch you are using. I am
looking at possibly using the 76 X 56 in my new 360. It will have the solid
crank, so no rpm restrictions.

Walter

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Walter Klatt · Post by **Walter Klatt** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:57 pm

While these might be good props, I don't think I want an inflight adjustable
on my floatplane Rebel. With my last Sensenich on my 150 hp 320, I could
turn 2500 on take-off which means that I was only losing 10 hp from max. Yet
it would not over rev on WOT straight and level.

If I can find a prop that turns 2500 on take-off for the 360, that would be
even better. According to the Lyc power charts this engine only loses 5 hp
from max at this rpm.

That means that with my engine upgrade, I will be going from 140 to 175 hp
on take-off.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Drew
Dalgleish
Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 8:22 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] 360 Prop

Hey Walter I might have a line on an MT electric 3 blade prop with beta if
you're interested I'll find out more.

At 06:37 PM 10/6/2007 -0400, you wrote:

I can't remember what is on Bob's Elite with his 180hp O-360. I'll fire him

an email and ask. He had it re-pitched a bit finer at Hope this

spring...and

it really performs well now.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
To: "Rebel-Builders" <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 10:25 AM
Subject: [rebel-builders] 360 Prop

Is there anyone on the list using the Sensenich 2 blade metal 76 inch
diameter prop? I would be interested in your static or take-off rpm,

climb

rpm and wot straight and level rpm. Specify which pitch you are using. I
am
looking at possibly using the 76 X 56 in my new 360. It will have the
solid
crank, so no rpm restrictions.

Walter

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Drew

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Walter Klatt · Post by **Walter Klatt** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:57 pm

I expect a little more than 180 hp with my new XP360 as well. It is using
mostly Superior components, but will have the ECI cylinders. Supposedly
these flow a little more as well, and with EI on one side.

As for the solid crank 360, Sensenich clearly specifies that there are no
rpm restrictions, so that is what I was going by with my statement.
http://www2.sensenich.com/direct/murphy.htm

I agree that the Sensenich props are heavy, at 40 pounds, and if I can find
a lighter one that will hold up to water operations, and perform as well,
I'm definitely interested.

I have heard you guys talk about the Prince, but I need more numbers to help
with my assessment. Again, what I need to know first is take-off or static
rpm, climb rpm, and then WOT straight and level rpm. And it has to be a
Rebel or Elite floatplane.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Bob
Patterson
Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 9:25 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] 360 Prop

Gee Walter !!

If you're going for a 360, why not pop for a Prince prop ??
It'll save you over 20 lb. on the nose - a very good thing !!!
(It will be an odd number - like maybe 76 x 46 .... )

I'm not sure about the solid crank helping with the
harmonic ranges - those are strong power pulses ....
but the Prince should be a lot better at avoiding problems.
Pierre used an XP-360 that was polished, ported, and,
most importantly, balanced - it dyno'd at 196 hp !!
Showed over 2,200 fpm climb with the Prince ..... :-))

--
......bobp
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com
http://apatterson2.ordermygift.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Saturday 06 October 2007 14:25, Walter Klatt wrote:

Is there anyone on the list using the Sensenich 2 blade metal 76 inch
diameter prop? I would be interested in your static or take-off rpm, climb
rpm and wot straight and level rpm. Specify which pitch you are using. I

am

looking at possibly using the 76 X 56 in my new 360. It will have the

solid

crank, so no rpm restrictions.

Walter

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Garry Wright · Post by **Garry Wright** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:57 pm

Hi Walter,

There is a Rebel amphib in my hangar which has a Prince prop on it. The
prop/engine combo is very smooth - no vibrations at all. It has a 160HP
O320 - was registered as N295RT, currently awaiting Canadian
registration. The aircraft is about 100# heavier than FOKM for a variety
of reasons. Headliner, painted floats, more avionics, vacuum pump, full
six pack and whatever. It seemed to climb fairly well but when I was in
it, the wind was 25G35 on the ground, so it was a bit hard to tell about
climb performance. That aircraft has about 700 hours on it and some use
on the water. I don't know how long the prop has been on it but there is
no sign of water erosion on the prop at all. It does not have a leading
edge protector either. The owner is John Peterson and he might chime in
here with the info about when the prop went on and how much water time
the plane has had, if he can figure it out from the logs.

I am hoping to have it here until we can do climb comparisons loaded to
the same #/hp, but that won't be until spring if ever. My floats are in
the hangar being leak tested right now. Hope to have them on in April.

Garry

Walter Klatt wrote:

I expect a little more than 180 hp with my new XP360 as well. It is using
mostly Superior components, but will have the ECI cylinders. Supposedly
these flow a little more as well, and with EI on one side.

As for the solid crank 360, Sensenich clearly specifies that there are no
rpm restrictions, so that is what I was going by with my statement.
http://www2.sensenich.com/direct/murphy.htm

I agree that the Sensenich props are heavy, at 40 pounds, and if I can find
a lighter one that will hold up to water operations, and perform as well,
I'm definitely interested.

I have heard you guys talk about the Prince, but I need more numbers to help
with my assessment. Again, what I need to know first is take-off or static
rpm, climb rpm, and then WOT straight and level rpm. And it has to be a
Rebel or Elite floatplane.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Bob
Patterson
Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 9:25 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] 360 Prop

Gee Walter !!

If you're going for a 360, why not pop for a Prince prop ??
It'll save you over 20 lb. on the nose - a very good thing !!!
(It will be an odd number - like maybe 76 x 46 .... )

I'm not sure about the solid crank helping with the
harmonic ranges - those are strong power pulses ....
but the Prince should be a lot better at avoiding problems.
Pierre used an XP-360 that was polished, ported, and,
most importantly, balanced - it dyno'd at 196 hp !!
Showed over 2,200 fpm climb with the Prince ..... :-))

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ray.mason · Post by **ray.mason** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:57 pm

Some composite props do not have a nickel leading edge and with out this
water operations will chew the heck out of it. Walter you might want to try
the new MPS cockpit adjustable prop. 74" with a nickel leading edge 23 LBS.
http://www.maxwellpropulsion.com/

On 10/7/2007 4:54 AM, walter.klatt@shaw.ca wrote to rebel-builders:

-> I expect a little more than 180 hp with my new XP360 as well. It is using
-> mostly Superior components, but will have the ECI cylinders. Supposedly
-> these flow a little more as well, and with EI on one side.
->
-> As for the solid crank 360, Sensenich clearly specifies that there are no
-> rpm restrictions, so that is what I was going by with my statement.
-> http://www2.sensenich.com/direct/murphy.htm
->
-> I agree that the Sensenich props are heavy, at 40 pounds, and if I can
find
-> a lighter one that will hold up to water operations, and perform as well,
-> I'm definitely interested.
->
-> I have heard you guys talk about the Prince, but I need more numbers to
help
-> with my assessment. Again, what I need to know first is take-off or static
-> rpm, climb rpm, and then WOT straight and level rpm. And it has to be a
-> Rebel or Elite floatplane.
->
-> Walter
->
-> -----Original Message-----
-> From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf
Of Bob
-> Patterson
-> Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 9:25 PM
-> To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
-> Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] 360 Prop
->
->
-> Gee Walter !!
->
-> If you're going for a 360, why not pop for a Prince prop ??
-> It'll save you over 20 lb. on the nose - a very good thing !!!
-> (It will be an odd number - like maybe 76 x 46 .... )
->
-> I'm not sure about the solid crank helping with the
-> harmonic ranges - those are strong power pulses ....
-> but the Prince should be a lot better at avoiding problems.
-> Pierre used an XP-360 that was polished, ported, and,
-> most importantly, balanced - it dyno'd at 196 hp !!
-> Showed over 2,200 fpm climb with the Prince ..... :-))
->
-> --
-> ......bobp
-> http://www.prosumers.ca
-> http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
-> http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com
-> http://apatterson2.ordermygift.com
->
-> -------------------------------orig.-------------------------
-> On Saturday 06 October 2007 14:25, Walter Klatt wrote:
-> > Is there anyone on the list using the Sensenich 2 blade metal 76 inch
-> > diameter prop? I would be interested in your static or take-off rpm,
climb
-> > rpm and wot straight and level rpm. Specify which pitch you are using.
I
-> am
-> > looking at possibly using the 76 X 56 in my new 360. It will have the
-> solid
-> > crank, so no rpm restrictions.
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > Walter
-> >
->
->
->
->
->
-> -----------------------------------------------------------------
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-> username "rebel" password "builder"
-> Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
-> List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> -----------------------------------------------------------------
->
->
->

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Bob Patterson · Post by **Bob Patterson** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:00 pm

Hi Walter !

My concern with RPM & harmonic problems was not with just
the prop - Sensenich may be very happy, but I've seen videos of
the crankshaft in a 360 at rpm between 1900 & 2450 .....
It can really flex !!! I'm also surprised that they say 2500 rpm
gives almost full power -- they are rated at 180 hp @ 2,700 rpm.
We've been towing gliders with 360's in Super Cubs for many
years - one of the challenges is proper cooling on descent -
you need to keep the power up so it cools slowly. The problem
is - you can't come back gradually on the power - only a few
seconds allowed between 2450 and 1900 .... run it there
continuously, and you'll break the crank !

Robin & I both found that the 360's ran noticeably rougher
at & below 2500 - I usually used 2550 as minimum cruise -
Robin preferred 2650+ !!

The previous owner of the Rebel Garry is talking about
wrote several observations - they should be in the archives.
I recall he said something to the effect that the Prince
gave him 2500 on takeoff, 2500 on climb, and 2550 wot,
straight & level ... The whole idea is that it twists with
load, giving "almost constant speed". The one I test flew
certainly did that, although it was too fine overall for
the 196 hp !! It would happily buzz through 3,000 rpm
if the speed went over about 85 in climb !!! Pierre then
went up 4" in pitch - a bit too much the other way, unfortunately ....

The Prince weighs only 9 lb..... !!!! :-)

There are over 30 Rebels flying with them - surely
somebody will jump in ...

--
......bobp
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com
http://apatterson2.ordermygift.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Sunday 07 October 2007 13:54, Walter Klatt wrote:

I expect a little more than 180 hp with my new XP360 as well. It is using
mostly Superior components, but will have the ECI cylinders. Supposedly
these flow a little more as well, and with EI on one side.

As for the solid crank 360, Sensenich clearly specifies that there are no
rpm restrictions, so that is what I was going by with my statement.
http://www2.sensenich.com/direct/murphy.htm

I agree that the Sensenich props are heavy, at 40 pounds, and if I can find
a lighter one that will hold up to water operations, and perform as well,
I'm definitely interested.

I have heard you guys talk about the Prince, but I need more numbers to
help with my assessment. Again, what I need to know first is take-off or
static rpm, climb rpm, and then WOT straight and level rpm. And it has to
be a Rebel or Elite floatplane.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Bob
Patterson
Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 9:25 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] 360 Prop

Gee Walter !!

If you're going for a 360, why not pop for a Prince prop ??
It'll save you over 20 lb. on the nose - a very good thing !!!
(It will be an odd number - like maybe 76 x 46 .... )

I'm not sure about the solid crank helping with the
harmonic ranges - those are strong power pulses ....
but the Prince should be a lot better at avoiding problems.
Pierre used an XP-360 that was polished, ported, and,
most importantly, balanced - it dyno'd at 196 hp !!
Showed over 2,200 fpm climb with the Prince ..... :-))

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Bob Patterson · Post by **Bob Patterson** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:00 pm

Hi Ray !

This looks like the old NSI C.A.P. prop - avoid it !!!!

There are at least 2 aircraft in Canada that were destroyed
by the NSI prop coming apart !! Transport Canada investigators
identified design & manufacturing defects .... and, of course,
there were the NSI business ethics ...... ;-(

--
......bobp
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com
http://apatterson2.ordermygift.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Sunday 07 October 2007 18:59, ray.mason@dcsol.com wrote:

Some composite props do not have a nickel leading edge and with out this
water operations will chew the heck out of it. Walter you might want to try
the new MPS cockpit adjustable prop. 74" with a nickel leading edge 23 LBS.
http://www.maxwellpropulsion.com/

On 10/7/2007 4:54 AM, walter.klatt@shaw.ca wrote to rebel-builders:

-> I expect a little more than 180 hp with my new XP360 as well. It is
using -> mostly Superior components, but will have the ECI cylinders.
Supposedly -> these flow a little more as well, and with EI on one side.
->
-> As for the solid crank 360, Sensenich clearly specifies that there are
no -> rpm restrictions, so that is what I was going by with my statement.
-> http://www2.sensenich.com/direct/murphy.htm
->
-> I agree that the Sensenich props are heavy, at 40 pounds, and if I can
find
-> a lighter one that will hold up to water operations, and perform as
well, -> I'm definitely interested.
->
-> I have heard you guys talk about the Prince, but I need more numbers to
help
-> with my assessment. Again, what I need to know first is take-off or
static -> rpm, climb rpm, and then WOT straight and level rpm. And it has
to be a -> Rebel or Elite floatplane.
->
-> Walter
->
-> -----Original Message-----
-> From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf
Of Bob
-> Patterson
-> Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 9:25 PM
-> To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
-> Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] 360 Prop
->
->
-> Gee Walter !!
->
-> If you're going for a 360, why not pop for a Prince prop ??
-> It'll save you over 20 lb. on the nose - a very good thing !!!
-> (It will be an odd number - like maybe 76 x 46 .... )
->
-> I'm not sure about the solid crank helping with the
-> harmonic ranges - those are strong power pulses ....
-> but the Prince should be a lot better at avoiding problems.
-> Pierre used an XP-360 that was polished, ported, and,
-> most importantly, balanced - it dyno'd at 196 hp !!
-> Showed over 2,200 fpm climb with the Prince ..... :-))
->
-> --
-> ......bobp
-> http://www.prosumers.ca
-> http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
-> http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com
-> http://apatterson2.ordermygift.com
->
-> -------------------------------orig.-------------------------
-> On Saturday 06 October 2007 14:25, Walter Klatt wrote:
-> > Is there anyone on the list using the Sensenich 2 blade metal 76 inch
-> > diameter prop? I would be interested in your static or take-off rpm,
climb
-> > rpm and wot straight and level rpm. Specify which pitch you are using.
I
-> am
-> > looking at possibly using the 76 X 56 in my new 360. It will have the
-> solid
-> > crank, so no rpm restrictions.
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > Walter
-> >

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Garry Wright · Post by **Garry Wright** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:00 pm

Whoa there big fella. That Prince prop in N295RT will easily overspeed
that engine in any flight regime in this area. It may be that the tach
is not calibrated properly or the prop performs differently from what I
saw at higher altitudes. He was based at Flagstaff so density altitudes
of 7500' on summer days would be the norm. That suggests the engine
would not be making the HP I experienced between 3000' and 4500'.

On net, I would say that I cannot witness that there was any constant
speed effect because it was a very windy day. The thing that puzzled me
about the flight was that the aircraft seemed to want more HP to fly in
reflex than with zero flaps. It will be interesting when John gets that
plane to lower altitudes and see what happens then.

Garry

Bob Patterson wrote:

Hi Walter !

The previous owner of the Rebel Garry is talking about

wrote several observations - they should be in the archives.
I recall he said something to the effect that the Prince
gave him 2500 on takeoff, 2500 on climb, and 2550 wot,
straight & level ... The whole idea is that it twists with
load, giving "almost constant speed".

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Richard Wampach · Post by **Richard Wampach** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:00 pm

Now it sounds like we need to add the Precise Flight Spoiler system in
order to keep it cool and get the plane down again! It is stock on some
of the Mooney's & is available for many other planes, but it does add a
few more pounds, very effective!

OK so if I do understand the Lycoming harmonic problem, it is only for
non-dampened crankshafts (-A1A, -C1C etc) with constant speed
propellers. I do not think any restrictions exist for fix-pitch props,
or engines with dampened shafts such as -A1A6, -C1C6. I have no
experience with the "adjustable" props. I do know it can ruin your
whole day if 6" if a prop blade, or part of the tail comes off due to a
harmonic vibration.

Dick Wampach

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Bob Patterson
Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 11:09 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] 360 Prop

Hi Walter !

My concern with RPM & harmonic problems was not with just
the prop - Sensenich may be very happy, but I've seen videos of
the crankshaft in a 360 at rpm between 1900 & 2450 .....
It can really flex !!! I'm also surprised that they say 2500 rpm
gives almost full power -- they are rated at 180 hp @ 2,700 rpm.
We've been towing gliders with 360's in Super Cubs for many
years - one of the challenges is proper cooling on descent -
you need to keep the power up so it cools slowly. The problem
is - you can't come back gradually on the power - only a few
seconds allowed between 2450 and 1900 .... run it there
continuously, and you'll break the crank !

Robin & I both found that the 360's ran noticeably rougher
at & below 2500 - I usually used 2550 as minimum cruise -
Robin preferred 2650+ !!

The previous owner of the Rebel Garry is talking about
wrote several observations - they should be in the archives.
I recall he said something to the effect that the Prince
gave him 2500 on takeoff, 2500 on climb, and 2550 wot,
straight & level ... The whole idea is that it twists with
load, giving "almost constant speed". The one I test flew
certainly did that, although it was too fine overall for
the 196 hp !! It would happily buzz through 3,000 rpm
if the speed went over about 85 in climb !!! Pierre then
went up 4" in pitch - a bit too much the other way, unfortunately ....

The Prince weighs only 9 lb..... !!!! :-)

There are over 30 Rebels flying with them - surely
somebody will jump in ...

--
......bobp
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com
http://apatterson2.ordermygift.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Sunday 07 October 2007 13:54, Walter Klatt wrote:

I expect a little more than 180 hp with my new XP360 as well. It is

using

mostly Superior components, but will have the ECI cylinders.

Supposedly

these flow a little more as well, and with EI on one side.

As for the solid crank 360, Sensenich clearly specifies that there are

no

rpm restrictions, so that is what I was going by with my statement.
http://www2.sensenich.com/direct/murphy.htm

I agree that the Sensenich props are heavy, at 40 pounds, and if I can

find

a lighter one that will hold up to water operations, and perform as

well,

I'm definitely interested.

I have heard you guys talk about the Prince, but I need more numbers

to

help with my assessment. Again, what I need to know first is take-off

or

static rpm, climb rpm, and then WOT straight and level rpm. And it has

to

be a Rebel or Elite floatplane.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of

Bob

Patterson
Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 9:25 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] 360 Prop

Gee Walter !!

If you're going for a 360, why not pop for a Prince prop ??
It'll save you over 20 lb. on the nose - a very good thing !!!
(It will be an odd number - like maybe 76 x 46 .... )

I'm not sure about the solid crank helping with the
harmonic ranges - those are strong power pulses ....
but the Prince should be a lot better at avoiding problems.
Pierre used an XP-360 that was polished, ported, and,
most importantly, balanced - it dyno'd at 196 hp !!
Showed over 2,200 fpm climb with the Prince ..... :-))

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Walter Klatt · Post by **Walter Klatt** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:00 pm

Yes, the full throttle curve on the 360 is a little flatter than the 320.
Even at 2400 and full throttle, it is still putting out 170 hp.

I do remember that Murphy had one 360 Elite that was a real shaker for some
reason. Julius told me that he flew with Robin, can't remember if it was to
Osh or Lakeland, but he said it was so bad that it would wear out the carb
heat boxes with the vibration.

I know there are a number of RVs here locally that run smaller diameter
Senenich metal props, and they say they are smooth. That's why I would like
to get some first hand experience from someone that is using the 76 diameter
Sensenich on a 360.

The engine that is being built for me is supposed to be balanced and
detailed. It also has the Superior tuned induction sump, so hopefully it
will come out nice and smooth.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Bob
Patterson
Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 11:09 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] 360 Prop

Hi Walter !

My concern with RPM & harmonic problems was not with just
the prop - Sensenich may be very happy, but I've seen videos of
the crankshaft in a 360 at rpm between 1900 & 2450 .....
It can really flex !!! I'm also surprised that they say 2500 rpm
gives almost full power -- they are rated at 180 hp @ 2,700 rpm.
We've been towing gliders with 360's in Super Cubs for many
years - one of the challenges is proper cooling on descent -
you need to keep the power up so it cools slowly. The problem
is - you can't come back gradually on the power - only a few
seconds allowed between 2450 and 1900 .... run it there
continuously, and you'll break the crank !

Robin & I both found that the 360's ran noticeably rougher
at & below 2500 - I usually used 2550 as minimum cruise -
Robin preferred 2650+ !!

The previous owner of the Rebel Garry is talking about
wrote several observations - they should be in the archives.
I recall he said something to the effect that the Prince
gave him 2500 on takeoff, 2500 on climb, and 2550 wot,
straight & level ... The whole idea is that it twists with
load, giving "almost constant speed". The one I test flew
certainly did that, although it was too fine overall for
the 196 hp !! It would happily buzz through 3,000 rpm
if the speed went over about 85 in climb !!! Pierre then
went up 4" in pitch - a bit too much the other way, unfortunately ....

The Prince weighs only 9 lb..... !!!! :-)

There are over 30 Rebels flying with them - surely
somebody will jump in ...

--
......bobp
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com
http://apatterson2.ordermygift.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Sunday 07 October 2007 13:54, Walter Klatt wrote:

I expect a little more than 180 hp with my new XP360 as well. It is using
mostly Superior components, but will have the ECI cylinders. Supposedly
these flow a little more as well, and with EI on one side.

As for the solid crank 360, Sensenich clearly specifies that there are no
rpm restrictions, so that is what I was going by with my statement.
http://www2.sensenich.com/direct/murphy.htm

I agree that the Sensenich props are heavy, at 40 pounds, and if I can

find

a lighter one that will hold up to water operations, and perform as well,
I'm definitely interested.

I have heard you guys talk about the Prince, but I need more numbers to
help with my assessment. Again, what I need to know first is take-off or
static rpm, climb rpm, and then WOT straight and level rpm. And it has to
be a Rebel or Elite floatplane.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Bob
Patterson
Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 9:25 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] 360 Prop

Gee Walter !!

If you're going for a 360, why not pop for a Prince prop ??
It'll save you over 20 lb. on the nose - a very good thing !!!
(It will be an odd number - like maybe 76 x 46 .... )

I'm not sure about the solid crank helping with the
harmonic ranges - those are strong power pulses ....
but the Prince should be a lot better at avoiding problems.
Pierre used an XP-360 that was polished, ported, and,
most importantly, balanced - it dyno'd at 196 hp !!
Showed over 2,200 fpm climb with the Prince ..... :-))

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Drew Dalgleish · Post by **Drew Dalgleish** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:00 pm

Hi Walter My prince prop gives 25-2600 for take off and climb on both
wheels and floats. WOT on floats is about 2750 and on wheels it will go
over 2800 ( I backed off at that point ) I'm very pleased with the
performance of it. I paid for leading edge protection and whatever prince
uses it's not stainless steel and it's not visible but it works for me.
I've put almost 100hrs on it including some rough water experiences and
flying in heavy rain and it still looks brand new. I'd definately recommend
using as light a prop as possible with that heavy engine. I'd also suggest
giving Lonnie Prince a call he's very nice to talk to and can probably put
you in touch with someone using the same combination. BTW why only one EI?

At 06:54 AM 10/7/2007 -0700, you wrote:

I expect a little more than 180 hp with my new XP360 as well. It is using
mostly Superior components, but will have the ECI cylinders. Supposedly
these flow a little more as well, and with EI on one side.

As for the solid crank 360, Sensenich clearly specifies that there are no
rpm restrictions, so that is what I was going by with my statement.
http://www2.sensenich.com/direct/murphy.htm

I agree that the Sensenich props are heavy, at 40 pounds, and if I can find
a lighter one that will hold up to water operations, and perform as well,
I'm definitely interested.

I have heard you guys talk about the Prince, but I need more numbers to help
with my assessment. Again, what I need to know first is take-off or static
rpm, climb rpm, and then WOT straight and level rpm. And it has to be a
Rebel or Elite floatplane.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Bob
Patterson
Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 9:25 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] 360 Prop

Gee Walter !!

If you're going for a 360, why not pop for a Prince prop ??
It'll save you over 20 lb. on the nose - a very good thing !!!
(It will be an odd number - like maybe 76 x 46 .... )

I'm not sure about the solid crank helping with the
harmonic ranges - those are strong power pulses ....
but the Prince should be a lot better at avoiding problems.
Pierre used an XP-360 that was polished, ported, and,
most importantly, balanced - it dyno'd at 196 hp !!
Showed over 2,200 fpm climb with the Prince ..... :-))

--
......bobp
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com
http://apatterson2.ordermygift.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Saturday 06 October 2007 14:25, Walter Klatt wrote:
Is there anyone on the list using the Sensenich 2 blade metal 76 inch
diameter prop? I would be interested in your static or take-off rpm, climb
rpm and wot straight and level rpm. Specify which pitch you are using. I
am
looking at possibly using the 76 X 56 in my new 360. It will have the
solid
crank, so no rpm restrictions.

Walter

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Drew

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Garry Wright · Post by **Garry Wright** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:00 pm

If leading edge protection is not visible on a Prince then John's N295RT
may have it because there is no visible damage and no visible protector.

Garry

Drew Dalgleish wrote:

Hi Walter My prince prop gives 25-2600 for take off and climb on both
wheels and floats. WOT on floats is about 2750 and on wheels it will go
over 2800 ( I backed off at that point ) I'm very pleased with the
performance of it. I paid for leading edge protection and whatever prince
uses it's not stainless steel and it's not visible but it works for me.
I've put almost 100hrs on it including some rough water experiences and
flying in heavy rain and it still looks brand new. I'd definately recommend
using as light a prop as possible with that heavy engine. I'd also suggest
giving Lonnie Prince a call he's very nice to talk to and can probably put
you in touch with someone using the same combination. BTW why only one EI?

At 06:54 AM 10/7/2007 -0700, you wrote:
I expect a little more than 180 hp with my new XP360 as well. It is using
mostly Superior components, but will have the ECI cylinders. Supposedly
these flow a little more as well, and with EI on one side.

As for the solid crank 360, Sensenich clearly specifies that there are no
rpm restrictions, so that is what I was going by with my statement.
http://www2.sensenich.com/direct/murphy.htm

I agree that the Sensenich props are heavy, at 40 pounds, and if I can find
a lighter one that will hold up to water operations, and perform as well,
I'm definitely interested.

I have heard you guys talk about the Prince, but I need more numbers to help
with my assessment. Again, what I need to know first is take-off or static
rpm, climb rpm, and then WOT straight and level rpm. And it has to be a
Rebel or Elite floatplane.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Bob
Patterson
Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 9:25 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] 360 Prop

Gee Walter !!

If you're going for a 360, why not pop for a Prince prop ??
It'll save you over 20 lb. on the nose - a very good thing !!!
(It will be an odd number - like maybe 76 x 46 .... )

I'm not sure about the solid crank helping with the
harmonic ranges - those are strong power pulses ....
but the Prince should be a lot better at avoiding problems.
Pierre used an XP-360 that was polished, ported, and,
most importantly, balanced - it dyno'd at 196 hp !!
Showed over 2,200 fpm climb with the Prince ..... :-))

--
......bobp
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com
http://apatterson2.ordermygift.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Saturday 06 October 2007 14:25, Walter Klatt wrote:
Is there anyone on the list using the Sensenich 2 blade metal 76 inch
diameter prop? I would be interested in your static or take-off rpm, climb
rpm and wot straight and level rpm. Specify which pitch you are using. I
am
looking at possibly using the 76 X 56 in my new 360. It will have the
solid
crank, so no rpm restrictions.

Walter

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Walter Klatt · Post by **Walter Klatt** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:00 pm

Thanks, Drew, that is the kind of information I am looking for. Sounds like
it is a very good match then for you. That's the kind of take off and WOT
rpms I am looking for too, on the 360. Did you have a Sensenich before the
Prince, or is this the only prop you tried with your new engine? What
diameter and pitch is your Prince prop? And what do they cost? What kind of
spinners are available for them?

When your plane is lightly loaded, let's say at 1650 pounds on the floats,
can you remember the exact climb rate? Also the exact altitude and
temperature at the time. I know that is asking for a lot, but if you can
give me any climb rate with whatever associated numbers you can remember,
that at least would help me compare it to my old engine and prop combo.

I went with the LS Plasma III and a mag, just for reliability and
simplicity. With 2 EI, you should have 2 batteries, and ideally two
alternators. Apparently these EI's have been known to fail, usually due to
some electrical problem, like over voltage (alternator problem). And both
can get knocked out at once, if you don't have them separated.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Drew
Dalgleish
Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 12:27 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] 360 Prop

Hi Walter My prince prop gives 25-2600 for take off and climb on both
wheels and floats. WOT on floats is about 2750 and on wheels it will go
over 2800 ( I backed off at that point ) I'm very pleased with the
performance of it. I paid for leading edge protection and whatever prince
uses it's not stainless steel and it's not visible but it works for me.
I've put almost 100hrs on it including some rough water experiences and
flying in heavy rain and it still looks brand new. I'd definately recommend
using as light a prop as possible with that heavy engine. I'd also suggest
giving Lonnie Prince a call he's very nice to talk to and can probably put
you in touch with someone using the same combination. BTW why only one EI?

At 06:54 AM 10/7/2007 -0700, you wrote:

I expect a little more than 180 hp with my new XP360 as well. It is using
mostly Superior components, but will have the ECI cylinders. Supposedly
these flow a little more as well, and with EI on one side.

As for the solid crank 360, Sensenich clearly specifies that there are no
rpm restrictions, so that is what I was going by with my statement.
http://www2.sensenich.com/direct/murphy.htm

I agree that the Sensenich props are heavy, at 40 pounds, and if I can find
a lighter one that will hold up to water operations, and perform as well,
I'm definitely interested.

I have heard you guys talk about the Prince, but I need more numbers to

help

with my assessment. Again, what I need to know first is take-off or static
rpm, climb rpm, and then WOT straight and level rpm. And it has to be a
Rebel or Elite floatplane.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Bob
Patterson
Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 9:25 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] 360 Prop

Gee Walter !!

If you're going for a 360, why not pop for a Prince prop ??
It'll save you over 20 lb. on the nose - a very good thing !!!
(It will be an odd number - like maybe 76 x 46 .... )

I'm not sure about the solid crank helping with the
harmonic ranges - those are strong power pulses ....
but the Prince should be a lot better at avoiding problems.
Pierre used an XP-360 that was polished, ported, and,
most importantly, balanced - it dyno'd at 196 hp !!
Showed over 2,200 fpm climb with the Prince ..... :-))

--
......bobp
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com
http://apatterson2.ordermygift.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Saturday 06 October 2007 14:25, Walter Klatt wrote:
Is there anyone on the list using the Sensenich 2 blade metal 76 inch
diameter prop? I would be interested in your static or take-off rpm,

climb

rpm and wot straight and level rpm. Specify which pitch you are using. I
am
looking at possibly using the 76 X 56 in my new 360. It will have the
solid
crank, so no rpm restrictions.

Walter

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