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[rebel-builders] Low compression questions

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Ken

[rebel-builders] Low compression questions

Post by Ken » Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:56 pm

I use a cheap Milton automotive leakage gauge and any time the leakage
is more than 10 to 15% you can bet there is a burnt valve or broken ring
which can be confirmed audibly during the test. If you are using an
aircraft testor, it would have a larger orifice which I would think
should indicate less leakage readings not more. Consistant 50's and 60's
wouldn't bother me but one low one is a problem. I do have to be careful
about leakage at the spark plug hole with my gauge and crankshaft
positioning is tricky. If you rotate the crank even a tiny bit past TDC
- the ring leakage skyrockets as the ring lifts off the lower side of
the piston groove!!! Be careful about that. I drop a stiff wire in each
cylinder as I come to it, rotate to TDC and mark it, back off a few
degrees, then rotate forward to just BEFORE TDC. Sounds like you've
already checked valve adjustment/clearance. If you can hear more leakage
from the low cylinder then you've already confirmed a problem I mostly
play with 4 cylinder liquid cooled engines. I don't use anything but
stock parts and simply don't see the break in phenomenon of improving
compression that air cooled engines have. So as a rule, I only use the
leakage testor to confirm and locate a suspected problem on an engine
that idles poorly or has indicated a problem with a compression check.
It is usually audibly obvious during a leakage test if you have one
cylinder leaking more than the others.

I'd suggest confirming the leakage with a compression gauge if you don't
trust the leakage gauge. The old trick of adding a squirt of oil and
retesting will still raise the compression reading substantially if the
rings are worn or not seated.

If you have a bad cylinder you need to find out why. The same assembly
or part defect may well affect all the cylinders in time. The good news
is - if you are not already certain there is a problem then there is a
good chance it is simply operator error or test equipment defects such
as a leaking hose.

Ken

Mike Kimball wrote:
I started my first annual inspection recently. I performed a differential
compression check on all cylinders and found an interesting thing and a
worrisome thing.

Interesting thing: On 7 cylinders I was getting only high 50s to low 60s
(over 80). It is my believe (for various reasons, not the least of which is
how well the engine is running) that these cylinders are all fine. I can't
figure out why the readings are so low. I can hear leaking air which I
believe is leaking into the case, not the intake or exhaust, i.e., past the
rings. As I'm sure everyone is aware, we like to see numbers above 70 and
all cylinders fairly close in readings. There is only about a dozen hours
of run time since it was rebuilt so far but I would have thought the rings
would have been set in by that amount of time. There's a little less than 6
hours in flight so the engine has seen continuous high power settings as
well.

Cylinder number 8 is only giving me about 32/80 and there's noticable
leaking air sounds through the exhaust pipe. Damn. Apparently, the exhaust
valve is not sealing. I wiggled the rocker and it's loose at TDC for the
measurement. I don't know enough about the characteristics of breaking in a
new engine so I thought I'd ping you guys on the list that do know. Is
there any chance that #8 will simply improve with more run time? Am I
looking at pulling that head so the valve can be lapped in or replaced?
(Man, I hope not.) The engine is running so well, it's tempting to just
call it a 7 cylinder engine and take the horsepower loss. My patience with
drawbacks is getting very thin.

Mike
044SR





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Rick Muller

[rebel-builders] Low compression questions

Post by Rick Muller » Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:56 pm

With such low time are you sure the cylinders have seated completely? It's
been 10 years, but I recall that engine people telling me it takes 10+ to
seat the cylinders (rings) completely. I might be wrong there. One of the
few advantages to a air cooled engine is you can monitor the cylinder head
temp on each cylinder. Not the case with a water cooled engine, which I
prefer while I'm on the point. You might contact the shop that rebuilt the
engine or some other engine shops and get their input.

Rick Muller
SR70
-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Mike
Kimball
Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 8:20 PM
To: Rebel Builder's List
Subject: [rebel-builders] Low compression questions

I started my first annual inspection recently. I performed a differential
compression check on all cylinders and found an interesting thing and a
worrisome thing.

Interesting thing: On 7 cylinders I was getting only high 50s to low 60s
(over 80). It is my believe (for various reasons, not the least of which is
how well the engine is running) that these cylinders are all fine. I can't
figure out why the readings are so low. I can hear leaking air which I
believe is leaking into the case, not the intake or exhaust, i.e., past the
rings. As I'm sure everyone is aware, we like to see numbers above 70 and
all cylinders fairly close in readings. There is only about a dozen hours
of run time since it was rebuilt so far but I would have thought the rings
would have been set in by that amount of time. There's a little less than 6
hours in flight so the engine has seen continuous high power settings as
well.

Cylinder number 8 is only giving me about 32/80 and there's noticable
leaking air sounds through the exhaust pipe. Damn. Apparently, the exhaust
valve is not sealing. I wiggled the rocker and it's loose at TDC for the
measurement. I don't know enough about the characteristics of breaking in a
new engine so I thought I'd ping you guys on the list that do know. Is
there any chance that #8 will simply improve with more run time? Am I
looking at pulling that head so the valve can be lapped in or replaced?
(Man, I hope not.) The engine is running so well, it's tempting to just
call it a 7 cylinder engine and take the horsepower loss. My patience with
drawbacks is getting very thin.

Mike
044SR




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Richard Wampach

[rebel-builders] Low compression questions

Post by Richard Wampach » Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:56 pm

Mike; I assume you have an M-14?

The FAA in its wisdom says no leakage past the valves. That is usually
detected by listening at an exhaust stack or at the induction inlet
(throttle open).

Ring leakage is usually detected at the oil cap, a breather port or
other type of access to the crankcase. The standard of 60/80 or better
is the standard of acceptance. However I usually consider it good that
all cylinders are of a similar reading. Before I tear into an engine I
take into consideration other things as well. Such as is the oil dark
after only a short time 5-10 hours. How was the oil consumption? Does
the engine develop power at book settings, i.e. rpm, map, fuel burn, &
air speed? This is a good means of determining horse power, and the over
all condition of the engine.

Years back I had access to a Comanche 250, it flew at 140 mph and used a
lot of fuel to do that. The owners, in denial, said you know the
performance books are written by the sales people to sell
airplanes---After the overhaul it flew at 180 mph at the same power
settings. A shocking difference and testament to the engineers that
wrote the book.

I suppose this information is not known on a very low time installation,
but maybe some of the other fellows with similar installations can offer
that type of performance information.

Good luck, hope this helps.

Dick Wampach SR-108

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Mike Kimball
Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 8:20 PM
To: Rebel Builder's List
Subject: [rebel-builders] Low compression questions

I started my first annual inspection recently. I performed a
differential
compression check on all cylinders and found an interesting thing and a
worrisome thing.

Interesting thing: On 7 cylinders I was getting only high 50s to low
60s
(over 80). It is my believe (for various reasons, not the least of
which is
how well the engine is running) that these cylinders are all fine. I
can't
figure out why the readings are so low. I can hear leaking air which I
believe is leaking into the case, not the intake or exhaust, i.e., past
the
rings. As I'm sure everyone is aware, we like to see numbers above 70
and
all cylinders fairly close in readings. There is only about a dozen
hours
of run time since it was rebuilt so far but I would have thought the
rings
would have been set in by that amount of time. There's a little less
than 6
hours in flight so the engine has seen continuous high power settings as
well.

Cylinder number 8 is only giving me about 32/80 and there's noticable
leaking air sounds through the exhaust pipe. Damn. Apparently, the
exhaust
valve is not sealing. I wiggled the rocker and it's loose at TDC for
the
measurement. I don't know enough about the characteristics of breaking
in a
new engine so I thought I'd ping you guys on the list that do know. Is
there any chance that #8 will simply improve with more run time? Am I
looking at pulling that head so the valve can be lapped in or replaced?
(Man, I hope not.) The engine is running so well, it's tempting to just
call it a 7 cylinder engine and take the horsepower loss. My patience
with
drawbacks is getting very thin.

Mike
044SR




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Mike Kimball

[rebel-builders] Low compression questions

Post by Mike Kimball » Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:56 pm

Thanks for the replies all. I should have mentioned that I am one of the
screwballs that decided to use a Chevy V8. Also, I don't think my cylinder
#8 problem has anything to do with ring seating because of the leakage
sounds I hear from the exhaust. I believe the problem is with the exhaust
valve.

Mike
044SR

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Richard Wampach
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 9:05 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Low compression questions

Mike; I assume you have an M-14?

The FAA in its wisdom says no leakage past the valves. That is usually
detected by listening at an exhaust stack or at the induction inlet
(throttle open).

Ring leakage is usually detected at the oil cap, a breather port or
other type of access to the crankcase. The standard of 60/80 or better
is the standard of acceptance. However I usually consider it good that
all cylinders are of a similar reading. Before I tear into an engine I
take into consideration other things as well. Such as is the oil dark
after only a short time 5-10 hours. How was the oil consumption? Does
the engine develop power at book settings, i.e. rpm, map, fuel burn, &
air speed? This is a good means of determining horse power, and the over
all condition of the engine.

Years back I had access to a Comanche 250, it flew at 140 mph and used a
lot of fuel to do that. The owners, in denial, said you know the
performance books are written by the sales people to sell
airplanes---After the overhaul it flew at 180 mph at the same power
settings. A shocking difference and testament to the engineers that
wrote the book.

I suppose this information is not known on a very low time installation,
but maybe some of the other fellows with similar installations can offer
that type of performance information.

Good luck, hope this helps.

Dick Wampach SR-108

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Mike Kimball
Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 8:20 PM
To: Rebel Builder's List
Subject: [rebel-builders] Low compression questions

I started my first annual inspection recently. I performed a
differential
compression check on all cylinders and found an interesting thing and a
worrisome thing.

Interesting thing: On 7 cylinders I was getting only high 50s to low
60s
(over 80). It is my believe (for various reasons, not the least of
which is
how well the engine is running) that these cylinders are all fine. I
can't
figure out why the readings are so low. I can hear leaking air which I
believe is leaking into the case, not the intake or exhaust, i.e., past
the
rings. As I'm sure everyone is aware, we like to see numbers above 70
and
all cylinders fairly close in readings. There is only about a dozen
hours
of run time since it was rebuilt so far but I would have thought the
rings
would have been set in by that amount of time. There's a little less
than 6
hours in flight so the engine has seen continuous high power settings as
well.

Cylinder number 8 is only giving me about 32/80 and there's noticable
leaking air sounds through the exhaust pipe. Damn. Apparently, the
exhaust
valve is not sealing. I wiggled the rocker and it's loose at TDC for
the
measurement. I don't know enough about the characteristics of breaking
in a
new engine so I thought I'd ping you guys on the list that do know. Is
there any chance that #8 will simply improve with more run time? Am I
looking at pulling that head so the valve can be lapped in or replaced?
(Man, I hope not.) The engine is running so well, it's tempting to just
call it a 7 cylinder engine and take the horsepower loss. My patience
with
drawbacks is getting very thin.

Mike
044SR




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Schmucker, Del

[rebel-builders] Low compression questions

Post by Schmucker, Del » Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:56 pm

Mike:

I had something similar happen once with my Subaru. I had just removed
the spark plug and was doing compression tests, and one cylinder was
significantly lower. Mine also had been running very well. After
fretting about it for a while I was asked by a friend (aircraft
mechanic) whether I had warmed the engine to operating temperatures
before testing compression. He also mentioned that he had see similar
problem one on a Lycoming, but it was rectified once the engine was
warmed up. His theory was that when he removed the spark plug he may
have knocked some carbon or lead deposit off and it lodged on the valve
seat holding the valve open. I then restarted the engine brought it up
to operating temperatures and retested and everything was fine and has
stayed fine ever since.


Thank you,

Del Schmucker
Information Systems Manager
Keewatin-Patricia District School Board
807-223-1254
807-221-8769 Cell
807-223-4703 Fax
del.schmucker@kpdsb.on.ca
www.kpdsb.on.ca

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Mike Kimball
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 1:55 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Low compression questions

Thanks for the replies all. I should have mentioned that I am one of
the
screwballs that decided to use a Chevy V8. Also, I don't think my
cylinder
#8 problem has anything to do with ring seating because of the leakage
sounds I hear from the exhaust. I believe the problem is with the
exhaust
valve.

Mike
044SR

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Richard Wampach
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 9:05 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Low compression questions

Mike; I assume you have an M-14?

The FAA in its wisdom says no leakage past the valves. That is usually
detected by listening at an exhaust stack or at the induction inlet
(throttle open).

Ring leakage is usually detected at the oil cap, a breather port or
other type of access to the crankcase. The standard of 60/80 or better
is the standard of acceptance. However I usually consider it good that
all cylinders are of a similar reading. Before I tear into an engine I
take into consideration other things as well. Such as is the oil dark
after only a short time 5-10 hours. How was the oil consumption? Does
the engine develop power at book settings, i.e. rpm, map, fuel burn, &
air speed? This is a good means of determining horse power, and the over
all condition of the engine.

Years back I had access to a Comanche 250, it flew at 140 mph and used a
lot of fuel to do that. The owners, in denial, said you know the
performance books are written by the sales people to sell
airplanes---After the overhaul it flew at 180 mph at the same power
settings. A shocking difference and testament to the engineers that
wrote the book.

I suppose this information is not known on a very low time installation,
but maybe some of the other fellows with similar installations can offer
that type of performance information.

Good luck, hope this helps.

Dick Wampach SR-108

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Mike Kimball
Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 8:20 PM
To: Rebel Builder's List
Subject: [rebel-builders] Low compression questions

I started my first annual inspection recently. I performed a
differential
compression check on all cylinders and found an interesting thing and a
worrisome thing.

Interesting thing: On 7 cylinders I was getting only high 50s to low
60s
(over 80). It is my believe (for various reasons, not the least of
which is
how well the engine is running) that these cylinders are all fine. I
can't
figure out why the readings are so low. I can hear leaking air which I
believe is leaking into the case, not the intake or exhaust, i.e., past
the
rings. As I'm sure everyone is aware, we like to see numbers above 70
and
all cylinders fairly close in readings. There is only about a dozen
hours
of run time since it was rebuilt so far but I would have thought the
rings
would have been set in by that amount of time. There's a little less
than 6
hours in flight so the engine has seen continuous high power settings as
well.

Cylinder number 8 is only giving me about 32/80 and there's noticable
leaking air sounds through the exhaust pipe. Damn. Apparently, the
exhaust
valve is not sealing. I wiggled the rocker and it's loose at TDC for
the
measurement. I don't know enough about the characteristics of breaking
in a
new engine so I thought I'd ping you guys on the list that do know. Is
there any chance that #8 will simply improve with more run time? Am I
looking at pulling that head so the valve can be lapped in or replaced?
(Man, I hope not.) The engine is running so well, it's tempting to just
call it a 7 cylinder engine and take the horsepower loss. My patience
with
drawbacks is getting very thin.

Mike
044SR




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Dale Fultz

[rebel-builders] Low compression questions

Post by Dale Fultz » Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:56 pm

Mike ,, When we do a leak down test on my race car I warm it up to operating
temps and then remove rockers and do the test to get an accurate reading
since that is the conditions at which it is being used... Hope this helps,,,
Dale




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Jesse Jenks

[rebel-builders] Low compression questions

Post by Jesse Jenks » Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:57 pm

Mike,
I don't know cr@p about engines, but I have heard and read stories about "staking" a valve in a case like you have. In other words hitting the valve to dislodge carbon deposits, thus sealing the valve.
Jesse
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 10:55:06 -0800
From: mkimball@gci.net
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Low compression questions
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com

Thanks for the replies all. I should have mentioned that I am one of the
screwballs that decided to use a Chevy V8. Also, I don't think my cylinder
#8 problem has anything to do with ring seating because of the leakage
sounds I hear from the exhaust. I believe the problem is with the exhaust
valve.

Mike
044SR

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Richard Wampach
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 9:05 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Low compression questions

Mike; I assume you have an M-14?

The FAA in its wisdom says no leakage past the valves. That is usually
detected by listening at an exhaust stack or at the induction inlet
(throttle open).

Ring leakage is usually detected at the oil cap, a breather port or
other type of access to the crankcase. The standard of 60/80 or better
is the standard of acceptance. However I usually consider it good that
all cylinders are of a similar reading. Before I tear into an engine I
take into consideration other things as well. Such as is the oil dark
after only a short time 5-10 hours. How was the oil consumption? Does
the engine develop power at book settings, i.e. rpm, map, fuel burn, &
air speed? This is a good means of determining horse power, and the over
all condition of the engine.

Years back I had access to a Comanche 250, it flew at 140 mph and used a
lot of fuel to do that. The owners, in denial, said you know the
performance books are written by the sales people to sell
airplanes---After the overhaul it flew at 180 mph at the same power
settings. A shocking difference and testament to the engineers that
wrote the book.

I suppose this information is not known on a very low time installation,
but maybe some of the other fellows with similar installations can offer
that type of performance information.

Good luck, hope this helps.

Dick Wampach SR-108

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Mike Kimball
Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 8:20 PM
To: Rebel Builder's List
Subject: [rebel-builders] Low compression questions

I started my first annual inspection recently. I performed a
differential
compression check on all cylinders and found an interesting thing and a
worrisome thing.

Interesting thing: On 7 cylinders I was getting only high 50s to low
60s
(over 80). It is my believe (for various reasons, not the least of
which is
how well the engine is running) that these cylinders are all fine. I
can't
figure out why the readings are so low. I can hear leaking air which I
believe is leaking into the case, not the intake or exhaust, i.e., past
the
rings. As I'm sure everyone is aware, we like to see numbers above 70
and
all cylinders fairly close in readings. There is only about a dozen
hours
of run time since it was rebuilt so far but I would have thought the
rings
would have been set in by that amount of time. There's a little less
than 6
hours in flight so the engine has seen continuous high power settings as
well.

Cylinder number 8 is only giving me about 32/80 and there's noticable
leaking air sounds through the exhaust pipe. Damn. Apparently, the
exhaust
valve is not sealing. I wiggled the rocker and it's loose at TDC for
the
measurement. I don't know enough about the characteristics of breaking
in a
new engine so I thought I'd ping you guys on the list that do know. Is
there any chance that #8 will simply improve with more run time? Am I
looking at pulling that head so the valve can be lapped in or replaced?
(Man, I hope not.) The engine is running so well, it's tempting to just
call it a 7 cylinder engine and take the horsepower loss. My patience
with
drawbacks is getting very thin.

Mike
044SR




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_________________________________________________________________
Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Caf

Richard Wampach

[rebel-builders] Low compression questions

Post by Richard Wampach » Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:57 pm

Mike; is this the V-8 engine that we read about on this web which had a
problem a year or two ago?
Do you have a very small mirror? Or take a piece of shim stock, alum,
whatever--polish it to a mirror finish. Bend it to the necessary angle,
stick it in the spark plug hole. Bring the crank around till the valve
in question is open and try to see what the cause is. Otherwise can you
borrow a boroscope. You may see stuff on the valve, or an area of no
contact (warped valve),or erosion like a small grand canyon in the
valve.
If you can evaluate the problem and pinpoint the cause, then you will
easily figure out what to do about it rather than rip-and-tear guess
work.
Then fix the problem and then go after the cause. Could bee that this
cylinder is very lean, like a plugged injector or induction leak.

Dick Wampach

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Jesse Jenks
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 9:59 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Low compression questions



Mike,
I don't know cr@p about engines, but I have heard and read stories about
"staking" a valve in a case like you have. In other words hitting the
valve to dislodge carbon deposits, thus sealing the valve.
Jesse
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 10:55:06 -0800
From: mkimball@gci.net
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Low compression questions
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com

Thanks for the replies all. I should have mentioned that I am one of
the
screwballs that decided to use a Chevy V8. Also, I don't think my
cylinder
#8 problem has anything to do with ring seating because of the leakage
sounds I hear from the exhaust. I believe the problem is with the
exhaust
valve.

Mike
044SR

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Richard Wampach
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 9:05 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Low compression questions

Mike; I assume you have an M-14?

The FAA in its wisdom says no leakage past the valves. That is
usually
detected by listening at an exhaust stack or at the induction inlet
(throttle open).

Ring leakage is usually detected at the oil cap, a breather port or
other type of access to the crankcase. The standard of 60/80 or
better
is the standard of acceptance. However I usually consider it good
that
all cylinders are of a similar reading. Before I tear into an engine
I
take into consideration other things as well. Such as is the oil dark
after only a short time 5-10 hours. How was the oil consumption?
Does
the engine develop power at book settings, i.e. rpm, map, fuel burn, &
air speed? This is a good means of determining horse power, and the
over
all condition of the engine.

Years back I had access to a Comanche 250, it flew at 140 mph and used
a
lot of fuel to do that. The owners, in denial, said you know the
performance books are written by the sales people to sell
airplanes---After the overhaul it flew at 180 mph at the same power
settings. A shocking difference and testament to the engineers that
wrote the book.

I suppose this information is not known on a very low time
installation,
but maybe some of the other fellows with similar installations can
offer
that type of performance information.

Good luck, hope this helps.

Dick Wampach SR-108

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Mike Kimball
Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 8:20 PM
To: Rebel Builder's List
Subject: [rebel-builders] Low compression questions

I started my first annual inspection recently. I performed a
differential
compression check on all cylinders and found an interesting thing and
a
worrisome thing.

Interesting thing: On 7 cylinders I was getting only high 50s to low
60s
(over 80). It is my believe (for various reasons, not the least of
which is
how well the engine is running) that these cylinders are all fine. I
can't
figure out why the readings are so low. I can hear leaking air which
I
believe is leaking into the case, not the intake or exhaust, i.e.,
past
the
rings. As I'm sure everyone is aware, we like to see numbers above 70
and
all cylinders fairly close in readings. There is only about a dozen
hours
of run time since it was rebuilt so far but I would have thought the
rings
would have been set in by that amount of time. There's a little less
than 6
hours in flight so the engine has seen continuous high power settings
as
well.

Cylinder number 8 is only giving me about 32/80 and there's noticable
leaking air sounds through the exhaust pipe. Damn. Apparently, the
exhaust
valve is not sealing. I wiggled the rocker and it's loose at TDC for
the
measurement. I don't know enough about the characteristics of
breaking
in a
new engine so I thought I'd ping you guys on the list that do know.
Is
there any chance that #8 will simply improve with more run time? Am I
looking at pulling that head so the valve can be lapped in or
replaced?
(Man, I hope not.) The engine is running so well, it's tempting to
just
call it a 7 cylinder engine and take the horsepower loss. My patience
with
drawbacks is getting very thin.

Mike
044SR




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_________________________________________________________________
Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Caf

Dale Fultz

[rebel-builders] Low compression questions

Post by Dale Fultz » Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:57 pm

If you need to see the exhaust valve remove the exhaust header and look at
it on a small block chevy you can see in the exhaust port without any
problem...




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Mike Kimball

[rebel-builders] Low compression questions

Post by Mike Kimball » Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:57 pm

Many awesome responses to my problem. Thank you everyone. Unfortunately, I
have already tried most of the suggestions. I "staked" the valve
repeatedly. Smacked it with a plastic hammer a bunch of times. Ran the
engine and retried. Checked and rechecked the crank position and rechecked
seems like a hundred times. I practically forced a guy at the shop that
checked out my heads and ground and lapped in the the valves after the
burned piston problem to come out to the airport and check things out for
himself. The exhaust valve leaks. I have to remove the head.
Unbelievable. Too cold now to take care of until next summer.

Mike
044SR



-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Schmucker, Del
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 5:48 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Low compression questions

Mike:

I had something similar happen once with my Subaru. I had just removed
the spark plug and was doing compression tests, and one cylinder was
significantly lower. Mine also had been running very well. After
fretting about it for a while I was asked by a friend (aircraft
mechanic) whether I had warmed the engine to operating temperatures
before testing compression. He also mentioned that he had see similar
problem one on a Lycoming, but it was rectified once the engine was
warmed up. His theory was that when he removed the spark plug he may
have knocked some carbon or lead deposit off and it lodged on the valve
seat holding the valve open. I then restarted the engine brought it up
to operating temperatures and retested and everything was fine and has
stayed fine ever since.


Thank you,

Del Schmucker
Information Systems Manager
Keewatin-Patricia District School Board
807-223-1254
807-221-8769 Cell
807-223-4703 Fax
del.schmucker@kpdsb.on.ca
www.kpdsb.on.ca

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Mike Kimball
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 1:55 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Low compression questions

Thanks for the replies all. I should have mentioned that I am one of
the
screwballs that decided to use a Chevy V8. Also, I don't think my
cylinder
#8 problem has anything to do with ring seating because of the leakage
sounds I hear from the exhaust. I believe the problem is with the
exhaust
valve.

Mike
044SR

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Richard Wampach
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 9:05 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Low compression questions

Mike; I assume you have an M-14?

The FAA in its wisdom says no leakage past the valves. That is usually
detected by listening at an exhaust stack or at the induction inlet
(throttle open).

Ring leakage is usually detected at the oil cap, a breather port or
other type of access to the crankcase. The standard of 60/80 or better
is the standard of acceptance. However I usually consider it good that
all cylinders are of a similar reading. Before I tear into an engine I
take into consideration other things as well. Such as is the oil dark
after only a short time 5-10 hours. How was the oil consumption? Does
the engine develop power at book settings, i.e. rpm, map, fuel burn, &
air speed? This is a good means of determining horse power, and the over
all condition of the engine.

Years back I had access to a Comanche 250, it flew at 140 mph and used a
lot of fuel to do that. The owners, in denial, said you know the
performance books are written by the sales people to sell
airplanes---After the overhaul it flew at 180 mph at the same power
settings. A shocking difference and testament to the engineers that
wrote the book.

I suppose this information is not known on a very low time installation,
but maybe some of the other fellows with similar installations can offer
that type of performance information.

Good luck, hope this helps.

Dick Wampach SR-108

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Mike Kimball
Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 8:20 PM
To: Rebel Builder's List
Subject: [rebel-builders] Low compression questions

I started my first annual inspection recently. I performed a
differential
compression check on all cylinders and found an interesting thing and a
worrisome thing.

Interesting thing: On 7 cylinders I was getting only high 50s to low
60s
(over 80). It is my believe (for various reasons, not the least of
which is
how well the engine is running) that these cylinders are all fine. I
can't
figure out why the readings are so low. I can hear leaking air which I
believe is leaking into the case, not the intake or exhaust, i.e., past
the
rings. As I'm sure everyone is aware, we like to see numbers above 70
and
all cylinders fairly close in readings. There is only about a dozen
hours
of run time since it was rebuilt so far but I would have thought the
rings
would have been set in by that amount of time. There's a little less
than 6
hours in flight so the engine has seen continuous high power settings as
well.

Cylinder number 8 is only giving me about 32/80 and there's noticable
leaking air sounds through the exhaust pipe. Damn. Apparently, the
exhaust
valve is not sealing. I wiggled the rocker and it's loose at TDC for
the
measurement. I don't know enough about the characteristics of breaking
in a
new engine so I thought I'd ping you guys on the list that do know. Is
there any chance that #8 will simply improve with more run time? Am I
looking at pulling that head so the valve can be lapped in or replaced?
(Man, I hope not.) The engine is running so well, it's tempting to just
call it a 7 cylinder engine and take the horsepower loss. My patience
with
drawbacks is getting very thin.

Mike
044SR




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