Cabin Torque Tube Hanger Bracket

[Wayne G. O'Shea]

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Your following message has been delivered to the 167 members of
the list murphy-rebel@dcsol.com at 13:23:29 on 22 Sep 2000.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------


Hello All!

Just thought I would drop a quick note/hint as to the installation of the
torque tube hanger bracket and channel on the cabin roof (inner).

Each "new" Rebel I bring into my shop for Refurb seems to have the same
problem! The channel holding the torque tube hanger bracket will be buckled
either in front, or as is the case with the one I'm doing now, right behind
where the bracket bolts/rivets to the channel. The .020 channel is not
strong enough and gets beat up from leaving the control surfaces blowing in
the wind with no control locks in place. One good gust on a flaperon will
bottom out the cabin area push pull linkages and then in turn cause the
channel to buckle as the torque tube wants to twist some more. I have been
replacing the .020 channels with .032 and this seems to really help stiffen
things up. Also, do not rivet the hanger bracket as shown in the manuals
with 6 - RV1613 rivets, but bolt with AN3-6A bolts and the necessary
AN960-10 washers and AN365-1032 nuts. This is for two reasons. First the
simplicity to take it apart if you need to work on the system or replace the
channel and second, I have seen at least 2 Rebels that had all the RV1613
rivets sheared by a good wind gust!

Keep at it, you <will> find that it is worth it in the end!

Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca


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[Charles Skorupa]

Are there any flight or taxi conditions that could also cause this?
(turbulence, gust on ground while taxiing, etc..). Or is it just occur
during tie down?

Chuck Skorupa
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2000 3:34 PM
Subject: Re: Cabin Torque Tube Hanger Bracket

Your more than welcome Drew! I just wanted everyone to know about this,
especially if you install the MAM headliner as you will NOT notice the
damage with the headliner in place! On #068R, the channel ( that cracked

and

buckled from one gust, Bob P. told me) was not done with the normal
"channel" piece as the manual shows, but with another cabin roof "rib" the
same as the one that goes down the centre of the cabin roof. This "rib"

was

riveted on for the full length with 1" spacing and that didn't keep it

from

being damaged.

Blue skies,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew and Jan" <drewjan@execulink.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2000 3:04 PM
Subject: Re: Cabin Torque Tube Hanger Bracket

Thanks for the tip Wayne I stiffened my bracket by rivetting it to the

roof

with short peices of ST40 to follow the curve no problems yet in 90+hrs.
but I will replace rivets with bolts. My rebel is tied down outside and

I

use gust locks ALL thev time. I made my locks by folding a peice of
aluminum to fit over the flaperons and glueing some closed cell foam on

the

inside. Idrilled a hole top and bottom and tied a lenghth of brick

layers

twine to the bottom ran it through the top hole over the wing and tie

back

at the bottom hole 2 locks per side the string going up the center keeps
the locks from moving. I can can take them off or put them on a lot

faster

than I wrote this.
Drew

At 01:22 PM 9/22/00 -0400, you wrote:

Hello All!

Just thought I would drop a quick note/hint as to the installation of

the

torque tube hanger bracket and channel on the cabin roof (inner).

Each "new" Rebel I bring into my shop for Refurb seems to have the same
problem! The channel holding the torque tube hanger bracket will be

buckled

either in front, or as is the case with the one I'm doing now, right

behind

where the bracket bolts/rivets to the channel. The .020 channel is not
strong enough and gets beat up from leaving the control surfaces

blowing

in

the wind with no control locks in place. One good gust on a flaperon

will

bottom out the cabin area push pull linkages and then in turn cause the
channel to buckle as the torque tube wants to twist some more. I have

been

replacing the .020 channels with .032 and this seems to really help

stiffen

things up. Also, do not rivet the hanger bracket as shown in the

manuals

with 6 - RV1613 rivets, but bolt with AN3-6A bolts and the necessary
AN960-10 washers and AN365-1032 nuts. This is for two reasons. First

the

simplicity to take it apart if you need to work on the system or

replace

the

channel and second, I have seen at least 2 Rebels that had all the

RV1613

rivets sheared by a good wind gust!

Keep at it, you <will> find that it is worth it in the end!

Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

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[Drew and Jan]

Thanks for the tip Wayne I stiffened my bracket by rivetting it to the roof
with short peices of ST40 to follow the curve no problems yet in 90+hrs.
but I will replace rivets with bolts. My rebel is tied down outside and I
use gust locks ALL thev time. I made my locks by folding a peice of
aluminum to fit over the flaperons and glueing some closed cell foam on the
inside. Idrilled a hole top and bottom and tied a lenghth of brick layers
twine to the bottom ran it through the top hole over the wing and tie back
at the bottom hole 2 locks per side the string going up the center keeps
the locks from moving. I can can take them off or put them on a lot faster
than I wrote this.
Drew

At 01:22 PM 9/22/00 -0400, you wrote:

Hello All!

Just thought I would drop a quick note/hint as to the installation of the
torque tube hanger bracket and channel on the cabin roof (inner).

Each "new" Rebel I bring into my shop for Refurb seems to have the same
problem! The channel holding the torque tube hanger bracket will be buckled
either in front, or as is the case with the one I'm doing now, right behind
where the bracket bolts/rivets to the channel. The .020 channel is not
strong enough and gets beat up from leaving the control surfaces blowing in
the wind with no control locks in place. One good gust on a flaperon will
bottom out the cabin area push pull linkages and then in turn cause the
channel to buckle as the torque tube wants to twist some more. I have been
replacing the .020 channels with .032 and this seems to really help stiffen
things up. Also, do not rivet the hanger bracket as shown in the manuals
with 6 - RV1613 rivets, but bolt with AN3-6A bolts and the necessary
AN960-10 washers and AN365-1032 nuts. This is for two reasons. First the
simplicity to take it apart if you need to work on the system or replace the
channel and second, I have seen at least 2 Rebels that had all the RV1613
rivets sheared by a good wind gust!

Keep at it, you <will> find that it is worth it in the end!

Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca


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[Aurele Lavigne]

Wayne, I had this problem as I was not faithfully locking my flaps,
especially when on floats as harder to get around. Not only did I bend that
channel, but I even bent the control horn and the rod end bearing on the end
of one of the push pull tubes. Needless to say, I now use locks and will
stiffen the channel and use bolts as suggested. Thanks for the tip.

Aurele 063R

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: "Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2000 1:22 PM
Subject: Cabin Torque Tube Hanger Bracket

Hello All!

Just thought I would drop a quick note/hint as to the installation of the
torque tube hanger bracket and channel on the cabin roof (inner).

Each "new" Rebel I bring into my shop for Refurb seems to have the same
problem! The channel holding the torque tube hanger bracket will be

buckled

either in front, or as is the case with the one I'm doing now, right

behind

where the bracket bolts/rivets to the channel. The .020 channel is not
strong enough and gets beat up from leaving the control surfaces blowing

in

the wind with no control locks in place. One good gust on a flaperon will
bottom out the cabin area push pull linkages and then in turn cause the
channel to buckle as the torque tube wants to twist some more. I have been
replacing the .020 channels with .032 and this seems to really help

stiffen

things up. Also, do not rivet the hanger bracket as shown in the manuals
with 6 - RV1613 rivets, but bolt with AN3-6A bolts and the necessary
AN960-10 washers and AN365-1032 nuts. This is for two reasons. First the
simplicity to take it apart if you need to work on the system or replace

the

channel and second, I have seen at least 2 Rebels that had all the RV1613
rivets sheared by a good wind gust!

Keep at it, you <will> find that it is worth it in the end!

Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

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Your following message has been delivered to the 167 members of
the list murphy-rebel@dcsol.com at 18:35:51 on 22 Sep 2000.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------


Your more than welcome Drew! I just wanted everyone to know about this,
especially if you install the MAM headliner as you will NOT notice the
damage with the headliner in place! On #068R, the channel ( that cracked and
buckled from one gust, Bob P. told me) was not done with the normal
"channel" piece as the manual shows, but with another cabin roof "rib" the
same as the one that goes down the centre of the cabin roof. This "rib" was
riveted on for the full length with 1" spacing and that didn't keep it from
being damaged.

Blue skies,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew and Jan" <drewjan@execulink.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2000 3:04 PM
Subject: Re: Cabin Torque Tube Hanger Bracket

Thanks for the tip Wayne I stiffened my bracket by rivetting it to the

roof

with short peices of ST40 to follow the curve no problems yet in 90+hrs.
but I will replace rivets with bolts. My rebel is tied down outside and I
use gust locks ALL thev time. I made my locks by folding a peice of
aluminum to fit over the flaperons and glueing some closed cell foam on

the

inside. Idrilled a hole top and bottom and tied a lenghth of brick layers
twine to the bottom ran it through the top hole over the wing and tie back
at the bottom hole 2 locks per side the string going up the center keeps
the locks from moving. I can can take them off or put them on a lot faster
than I wrote this.
Drew

At 01:22 PM 9/22/00 -0400, you wrote:

Hello All!

Just thought I would drop a quick note/hint as to the installation of the
torque tube hanger bracket and channel on the cabin roof (inner).

Each "new" Rebel I bring into my shop for Refurb seems to have the same
problem! The channel holding the torque tube hanger bracket will be

buckled

either in front, or as is the case with the one I'm doing now, right

behind

where the bracket bolts/rivets to the channel. The .020 channel is not
strong enough and gets beat up from leaving the control surfaces blowing

in

the wind with no control locks in place. One good gust on a flaperon will
bottom out the cabin area push pull linkages and then in turn cause the
channel to buckle as the torque tube wants to twist some more. I have

been

replacing the .020 channels with .032 and this seems to really help

stiffen

things up. Also, do not rivet the hanger bracket as shown in the manuals
with 6 - RV1613 rivets, but bolt with AN3-6A bolts and the necessary
AN960-10 washers and AN365-1032 nuts. This is for two reasons. First the
simplicity to take it apart if you need to work on the system or replace

the

channel and second, I have seen at least 2 Rebels that had all the RV1613
rivets sheared by a good wind gust!

Keep at it, you <will> find that it is worth it in the end!

Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

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Archives located at:
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[Walter Klatt]

There's a guy out here on the west coast in B.C. that had this problem, and says it
happened during severe turbulence while mountain flying. His fix was to sandwich the
hanger between a couple of extra cabin roof ribs. I found this hard to believe when he
told me, but after reading about others today, I may want to beef mine up, too.

Charles Skorupa wrote:

Are there any flight or taxi conditions that could also cause this?
(turbulence, gust on ground while taxiing, etc..). Or is it just occur
during tie down?

Chuck Skorupa
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2000 3:34 PM
Subject: Re: Cabin Torque Tube Hanger Bracket

Your more than welcome Drew! I just wanted everyone to know about this,
especially if you install the MAM headliner as you will NOT notice the
damage with the headliner in place! On #068R, the channel ( that cracked

and

buckled from one gust, Bob P. told me) was not done with the normal
"channel" piece as the manual shows, but with another cabin roof "rib" the
same as the one that goes down the centre of the cabin roof. This "rib"

was

riveted on for the full length with 1" spacing and that didn't keep it

from

being damaged.

Blue skies,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew and Jan" <drewjan@execulink.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2000 3:04 PM
Subject: Re: Cabin Torque Tube Hanger Bracket

Thanks for the tip Wayne I stiffened my bracket by rivetting it to the

roof

with short peices of ST40 to follow the curve no problems yet in 90+hrs.
but I will replace rivets with bolts. My rebel is tied down outside and

I

use gust locks ALL thev time. I made my locks by folding a peice of
aluminum to fit over the flaperons and glueing some closed cell foam on

the

inside. Idrilled a hole top and bottom and tied a lenghth of brick

layers

twine to the bottom ran it through the top hole over the wing and tie

back

at the bottom hole 2 locks per side the string going up the center keeps
the locks from moving. I can can take them off or put them on a lot

faster

than I wrote this.
Drew

At 01:22 PM 9/22/00 -0400, you wrote:

the

buckled

behind

blowing

in

will

been

stiffen

manuals

the

replace

the

RV1613

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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

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Your following message has been delivered to the 166 members of
the list murphy-rebel@dcsol.com at 21:16:50 on 22 Sep 2000.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------


As far as I know Chuck, all damage so far has been done when controls are
unattended and a gust flips the flaperons full travel etc. Like just after
pushing a hangered aircraft outside and some wind shear whips around the
hanger and gives the controls a good "flutter"! Damage could (possibly) be
caused, also, by a good tail wind gust during taxi with the flaperons fully
deflected into a cross wind. I don't think it is from flying with full flaps
down, as the torsional loads would be a twist in the opposite direction and
cause the hanger bracket channel to buckle downward. All I have found have
been buckled upwards. One was buckled up enough, that it caused the flaps to
be down about 5 degrees, due to the change in pivot location.

I have not had a problem with my personal Rebel and I only put a (snug)
bungee cord from the instrument panel edge, around both sticks and then back
to the panel when it is sitting outside (for the short times it is not
hangered). This seems to be enough to keep the controls from slamming side
to side on most days during a quick stop etc. I also leave it on in the
hanger, as when the doors are open I can get one -ell of a wind tunnel going
though the hanger (especially when I open the 40' x 16' doors at both ends).
We pulled the headliner back in Howard's this summer, to check his, and it
is fine after 3 summers of being on the lake 6 months out of the year and he
only ties off the stick with his seat belts (no external flaperon locks).
Howard locks his rudder (as no tail wheel chains to keep it from swinging
around) by putting a long plastic tube through the two centre rudder pedal
tubes. The tube is long enough to come up into the seat area, so it is not
forgotten before flight! When I actually put my Rebel outside in a tie down
(rained in somewhere other than home) I put control locks on the flaperons,
between the flaperons and the tip. Float equipped Rebels could put them at
the root end between the flaperon and the cabin fuselage gap filler (unless
of course you have the split flaps, then they have to go at the tips!)

Wayne



----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Skorupa" <c_skorupa@hotmail.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2000 8:28 PM
Subject: Re: Cabin Torque Tube Hanger Bracket

Are there any flight or taxi conditions that could also cause this?
(turbulence, gust on ground while taxiing, etc..). Or is it just occur
during tie down?

Chuck Skorupa
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2000 3:34 PM
Subject: Re: Cabin Torque Tube Hanger Bracket

Your more than welcome Drew! I just wanted everyone to know about this,
especially if you install the MAM headliner as you will NOT notice the
damage with the headliner in place! On #068R, the channel ( that cracked

and

buckled from one gust, Bob P. told me) was not done with the normal
"channel" piece as the manual shows, but with another cabin roof "rib"

the

same as the one that goes down the centre of the cabin roof. This "rib"

was

riveted on for the full length with 1" spacing and that didn't keep it

from

being damaged.

Blue skies,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew and Jan" <drewjan@execulink.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2000 3:04 PM
Subject: Re: Cabin Torque Tube Hanger Bracket

Thanks for the tip Wayne I stiffened my bracket by rivetting it to the

roof

with short peices of ST40 to follow the curve no problems yet in

90+hrs.

but I will replace rivets with bolts. My rebel is tied down outside

and

I

use gust locks ALL thev time. I made my locks by folding a peice of
aluminum to fit over the flaperons and glueing some closed cell foam

on

the

inside. Idrilled a hole top and bottom and tied a lenghth of brick

layers

twine to the bottom ran it through the top hole over the wing and tie

back

at the bottom hole 2 locks per side the string going up the center

keeps

the locks from moving. I can can take them off or put them on a lot

faster

than I wrote this.
Drew

At 01:22 PM 9/22/00 -0400, you wrote:

the

same

buckled

behind

not

blowing

in

will

the

been

stiffen

manuals

the

replace

the

RV1613

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[Bob Patterson]

I have had a very strong gust from the back grab the ailerons
and yank the stick right out of my hand, while taxiing !! This gives
you quite a shock - and can be strong enough to cause some damage !

I'm now extra careful to hang on tight in gusty winds ...

.....bobp

-----------------------------orig.-----------------------------------------
At 05:28 PM 9/22/00 -0700, you wrote:

Are there any flight or taxi conditions that could also cause this?
(turbulence, gust on ground while taxiing, etc..). Or is it just occur
during tie down?

Chuck Skorupa
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2000 3:34 PM
Subject: Re: Cabin Torque Tube Hanger Bracket

Your more than welcome Drew! I just wanted everyone to know about this,
especially if you install the MAM headliner as you will NOT notice the
damage with the headliner in place! On #068R, the channel ( that cracked

and

buckled from one gust, Bob P. told me) was not done with the normal
"channel" piece as the manual shows, but with another cabin roof "rib" the
same as the one that goes down the centre of the cabin roof. This "rib"

was

riveted on for the full length with 1" spacing and that didn't keep it

from

being damaged.

Blue skies,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew and Jan" <drewjan@execulink.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2000 3:04 PM
Subject: Re: Cabin Torque Tube Hanger Bracket

Thanks for the tip Wayne I stiffened my bracket by rivetting it to the

roof

with short peices of ST40 to follow the curve no problems yet in 90+hrs.
but I will replace rivets with bolts. My rebel is tied down outside and

I

use gust locks ALL thev time. I made my locks by folding a peice of
aluminum to fit over the flaperons and glueing some closed cell foam on

the

inside. Idrilled a hole top and bottom and tied a lenghth of brick

layers

twine to the bottom ran it through the top hole over the wing and tie

back

at the bottom hole 2 locks per side the string going up the center keeps
the locks from moving. I can can take them off or put them on a lot

faster

than I wrote this.
Drew

At 01:22 PM 9/22/00 -0400, you wrote:

the

buckled

behind

blowing

in

will

been

stiffen

manuals

the

replace

the

RV1613

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[Legeorgen]

To all,

If you have ever done a wing over and don't kick in rudder before the plane
makes its break (i.e., wait to long) and your bird starts to fall back while
your still vertical, the elevator can jerk that stick out of your hand quick
enough to REALLY get you attention.
I'd hate to see that torque tube after that experience.

Bruce G 357R






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[Charles Skorupa]

Wayne,
I wonder if this may be more pronounced with flaperon planes, as opposed to
split flap aileron setup. The large and effective flaperon surface might be
creating powerful forces for both good and "evil"! I suspect those with
split aileron/flaps, especially those who have used entirely different
support and load paths for each, might see reduced loads and lower stick
forces during severe turbulence as well.

From some of the other replies in this thread, it appears there is a

potential for some pretty good loads being introduced into the flight
control system. Though rare, damage seems to be showing up in various parts
and pieces in addition to the ones your mentioned. Perhaps engineering
paranoia here, but beefing up the area you suggest does seem to solve the
problem there, but will the loads then search for the next weakest link?
That's not bad because all parts in a good design will help absorb and
distribute the loads. The bent parts are even nice to see since they
represent a good example of a fail safe design. I guess we have to be on
guard about what is a problem and what is a symptom. For now, it appears
that it would be prudent to keep an extra cautious eye on the brackets,
hangers, control elements, etc during preflight and annual inspection in the
event a new weak link shows up. Also, I wonder if using soft stops might
reduce the g-loads associated with slamming at the end of the travel limits.
Maybe a rubber bumper or spring stop at the stick control stops to help
when the control locks are not in place?? Your bungee stick restraint should
help a lot during tie down

By the way, I feel that I speak for many when I express great appreciation
for your contributions to this forum This latest design/safety alert from
the field that you provided is just one of many examples of something that
might save much grief, or worse. Both you, Bob and others seem to be very
busy, but always seem to take the time to share your wisdom and be patient
with those with another viewpoint. Not only may the information be a
usefull tip, it could be plane saving or life saving. And it makes us think
beyond steps 1-2-3 in a manual. Your friendly manner sets a good example
for others and draw them out to hopefully help make them share their
thoughts and ideas as well. Thanks.


- Chuck Skorupa -

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2000 6:15 PM
Subject: Re: Cabin Torque Tube Hanger Bracket

As far as I know Chuck, all damage so far has been done when controls are
unattended and a gust flips the flaperons full travel etc. Like just after
pushing a hangered aircraft outside and some wind shear whips around the
hanger and gives the controls a good "flutter"! Damage could (possibly) be
caused, also, by a good tail wind gust during taxi with the flaperons

fully

deflected into a cross wind. I don't think it is from flying with full

flaps

down, as the torsional loads would be a twist in the opposite direction

and

cause the hanger bracket channel to buckle downward. All I have found have
been buckled upwards. One was buckled up enough, that it caused the flaps

to

be down about 5 degrees, due to the change in pivot location.

I have not had a problem with my personal Rebel and I only put a (snug)
bungee cord from the instrument panel edge, around both sticks and then

back

to the panel when it is sitting outside (for the short times it is not
hangered). This seems to be enough to keep the controls from slamming side
to side on most days during a quick stop etc. I also leave it on in the
hanger, as when the doors are open I can get one -ell of a wind tunnel

going

though the hanger (especially when I open the 40' x 16' doors at both

ends).

We pulled the headliner back in Howard's this summer, to check his, and it
is fine after 3 summers of being on the lake 6 months out of the year and

he

only ties off the stick with his seat belts (no external flaperon locks).
Howard locks his rudder (as no tail wheel chains to keep it from swinging
around) by putting a long plastic tube through the two centre rudder pedal
tubes. The tube is long enough to come up into the seat area, so it is not
forgotten before flight! When I actually put my Rebel outside in a tie

down

(rained in somewhere other than home) I put control locks on the

flaperons,

between the flaperons and the tip. Float equipped Rebels could put them at
the root end between the flaperon and the cabin fuselage gap filler

(unless

of course you have the split flaps, then they have to go at the tips!)

Wayne



----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Skorupa" <c_skorupa@hotmail.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2000 8:28 PM
Subject: Re: Cabin Torque Tube Hanger Bracket

Are there any flight or taxi conditions that could also cause this?
(turbulence, gust on ground while taxiing, etc..). Or is it just occur
during tie down?

Chuck Skorupa
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2000 3:34 PM
Subject: Re: Cabin Torque Tube Hanger Bracket

Your more than welcome Drew! I just wanted everyone to know about

this,

especially if you install the MAM headliner as you will NOT notice the
damage with the headliner in place! On #068R, the channel ( that

cracked

and

buckled from one gust, Bob P. told me) was not done with the normal
"channel" piece as the manual shows, but with another cabin roof "rib"

the

same as the one that goes down the centre of the cabin roof. This

"rib"

was

riveted on for the full length with 1" spacing and that didn't keep it

from

being damaged.

Blue skies,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew and Jan" <drewjan@execulink.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2000 3:04 PM
Subject: Re: Cabin Torque Tube Hanger Bracket

the

roof

90+hrs.

and

I

on

the

layers

tie

back

keeps

faster

of

the

same

buckled

right

behind

not

blowing

in

flaperon

will

the

have

been stiffen

manuals

necessary

First

the

replace

the

RV1613

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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Your following message has been delivered to the 166 members of
the list murphy-rebel@dcsol.com at 23:05:45 on 24 Sep 2000.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chuck and All, Definitely more load from 12 feet of flaperon wanting to flap
around, than 6 feet of aileron!

As for the "bigger Band-Aid" problem, I guess it is quite possible and I
figure you would see the rod ends get bent next PROVIDED you have used the
proper 8 Stainless Steel RR5604 or 5406 rivets at each control horn plug.
The "wheeled" Rebel I am getting geared up to Refurb next has the 8
everywhere except at the 2 horns where the torque tube hanger is. These were
joined using only 4 x RV1613 rivets. I am curious if the aeronautical design
engineer that built this thing did it on purpose for a failure spot that was
"in sight", or it was just ANOTHER spot on the rebel that he strayed
dangerously from the manual. This was a gentleman that a lot of people took
(and still take) suggestions and tips from as "gospel" due to his life time
career in the aircraft industry. SO far on this aircraft I have 2 full pages
of stuff that needs correcting from the 3/8 of an inch the control column
moves back and forth before the flaperons move, to the instrument panel
extension for throttle/mixture etc. that is still held in by CLECO's, half
finished wing root rib reinforcing for the 1650 mod (that's half the
stiffeners ie:1 instead of 2 and 1/2 the holes drilled have no rivets in
them!) and I have now found while investigating serious fuel tank leaks that
he cut the stringers so he didn't have to seal them going through the outer
tank ribs. I will have to open the wings up totally and splice the stringers
etc., before I will allow anyone to fly this aircraft again! And yes it
supposable had a final inspection and has been flying for 4 years! And yes
I'm getting off track, but that all said I figure the 4 rivets (instead of
eight) were just installed out of simplicity. This aircraft DOES have rubber
control stops (as you mentioned) on the control column and it still buckled
the channel!

I've rambled long enough! Thanks for the compliments in the last paragraph
etc. and like I've said before, I do it because I wouldn't sleep at night if
I thought someone might get hurt from something I knew about and didn't
share to the list!

Regards,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca



----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Skorupa" <c_skorupa@hotmail.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2000 12:34 PM
Subject: Re: Cabin Torque Tube Hanger Bracket

Wayne,
I wonder if this may be more pronounced with flaperon planes, as opposed

to

split flap aileron setup. The large and effective flaperon surface might

be

creating powerful forces for both good and "evil"! I suspect those with
split aileron/flaps, especially those who have used entirely different
support and load paths for each, might see reduced loads and lower stick
forces during severe turbulence as well.

From some of the other replies in this thread, it appears there is a

potential for some pretty good loads being introduced into the flight
control system. Though rare, damage seems to be showing up in various

parts

and pieces in addition to the ones your mentioned. Perhaps engineering
paranoia here, but beefing up the area you suggest does seem to solve the
problem there, but will the loads then search for the next weakest link?
That's not bad because all parts in a good design will help absorb and
distribute the loads. The bent parts are even nice to see since they
represent a good example of a fail safe design. I guess we have to be on
guard about what is a problem and what is a symptom. For now, it appears
that it would be prudent to keep an extra cautious eye on the brackets,
hangers, control elements, etc during preflight and annual inspection in

the

event a new weak link shows up. Also, I wonder if using soft stops might
reduce the g-loads associated with slamming at the end of the travel

limits.

Maybe a rubber bumper or spring stop at the stick control stops to help
when the control locks are not in place?? Your bungee stick restraint

should

help a lot during tie down

By the way, I feel that I speak for many when I express great appreciation
for your contributions to this forum This latest design/safety alert from
the field that you provided is just one of many examples of something that
might save much grief, or worse. Both you, Bob and others seem to be very
busy, but always seem to take the time to share your wisdom and be patient
with those with another viewpoint. Not only may the information be a
usefull tip, it could be plane saving or life saving. And it makes us

think

beyond steps 1-2-3 in a manual. Your friendly manner sets a good example
for others and draw them out to hopefully help make them share their
thoughts and ideas as well. Thanks.


- Chuck Skorupa -

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