[rebel-builders] 1800 amphib die springs

[Bob Fisher]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken" <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 9:42 AM
Subject: [rebel-builders] 1800 amphib die springs

Hi Bob
Can you tell us where you purchased the springs
or a part number or any further specs for them ??
thanks
Ken

Bob Fisher wrote:

hi guys die springs are working great noooo sag 2 yrs in use
bob
fisher

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[Bob Fisher]

hi guys i bought them from bowan tool in brantford ontario 756 2560 i
think? i believe they are danly die springs 3.5" by 1.5" green extra
hd i will try and find the correct size in my notes buried!

bob fisher
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken" <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 9:42 AM
Subject: [rebel-builders] 1800 amphib die springs

Hi Bob
Can you tell us where you purchased the springs
or a part number or any further specs for them ??
thanks
Ken

Bob Fisher wrote:

hi guys die springs are working great noooo sag 2 yrs in use
bob
fisher

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[Ken]

Bob

I think that pretty much fingers PN 344-2414 as the specs seem about right.
http://www.toolanddie.com/catalogs/SDS_ ... _GREEN.htm

A quick look has me estimating 570 lb load per spring at 1700 lb. gross
weight with no weight on the nosewheels.
A 5/8" id spring would fit the mechanism better but those springs are
not strong enough so the 3/4" id spring is chosen and probably some
washers are necessary at the ends. The mechanism allows for 3.8" max
spring length (That could easilly be increased but lets not go there
right now) so that leaves room for a couple of washers if we use a 3.5"
long free length spring with no preload. So a 570 lb load will compress
the spring almost 0.3 inches. That would leave an additional 0.5" of
travel available for bumps or say the ability to handle about a 2.75 g
hard landing if both mains hit together. That is the number that
concerns me most as the pucks wouldn't bottom out hard and guarantee
damage like a spring will tend to do but I'd bet that 2.75 g would
damage something else anyway so my concern fades away...

Sounds like a a great choice Bob. Thank you for sharing. Comments from
one and all encouraged...

Ken

Bob Fisher wrote:

hi guys i bought them from bowan tool in brantford ontario 756 2560 i
think? i believe they are danly die springs 3.5" by 1.5" green extra
hd i will try and find the correct size in my notes buried!

bob fisher

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[Bob Fisher]

hi ken there is to be .2
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken" <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 10:28 AM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] 1800 amphib die springs

Bob

I think that pretty much fingers PN 344-2414 as the specs seem about
right.
http://www.toolanddie.com/catalogs/SDS_ ... _GREEN.htm

A quick look has me estimating 570 lb load per spring at 1700 lb. gross
weight with no weight on the nosewheels.
A 5/8" id spring would fit the mechanism better but those springs are
not strong enough so the 3/4" id spring is chosen and probably some
washers are necessary at the ends. The mechanism allows for 3.8" max
spring length (That could easilly be increased but lets not go there
right now) so that leaves room for a couple of washers if we use a 3.5"
long free length spring with no preload. So a 570 lb load will compress
the spring almost 0.3 inches. That would leave an additional 0.5" of
travel available for bumps or say the ability to handle about a 2.75 g
hard landing if both mains hit together. That is the number that
concerns me most as the pucks wouldn't bottom out hard and guarantee
damage like a spring will tend to do but I'd bet that 2.75 g would
damage something else anyway so my concern fades away...

Sounds like a a great choice Bob. Thank you for sharing. Comments from
one and all encouraged...

Ken

Bob Fisher wrote:

hi guys i bought them from bowan tool in brantford ontario 756 2560 i
think? i believe they are danly die springs 3.5" by 1.5" green
extra
hd i will try and find the correct size in my notes buried!

bob fisher

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[Bob Fisher]

hi ken there is to be .2 in of preload as installed , the springs are
actually 3.7 in long ,the existing alloy washers can be machined down to
approx .75 for about .25 in so that the springs are centered and do not
touch the shafts

the nose wheel weight is about 300 lbs total

when I had the pucks , I basically had no suspension. you could jump up and
down on the floats and the wheel wouldn`t hardly move Now the wheel moves
visably , mayby an inch when you land it really cushions

you will not regret it !bob fisher

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken" <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 10:28 AM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] 1800 amphib die springs

Bob

I think that pretty much fingers PN 344-2414 as the specs seem about
right.
http://www.toolanddie.com/catalogs/SDS_ ... _GREEN.htm

A quick look has me estimating 570 lb load per spring at 1700 lb. gross
weight with no weight on the nosewheels.
A 5/8" id spring would fit the mechanism better but those springs are
not strong enough so the 3/4" id spring is chosen and probably some
washers are necessary at the ends. The mechanism allows for 3.8" max
spring length (That could easilly be increased but lets not go there
right now) so that leaves room for a couple of washers if we use a 3.5"
long free length spring with no preload. So a 570 lb load will compress
the spring almost 0.3 inches. That would leave an additional 0.5" of
travel available for bumps or say the ability to handle about a 2.75 g
hard landing if both mains hit together. That is the number that
concerns me most as the pucks wouldn't bottom out hard and guarantee
damage like a spring will tend to do but I'd bet that 2.75 g would
damage something else anyway so my concern fades away...

Sounds like a a great choice Bob. Thank you for sharing. Comments from
one and all encouraged...

Ken

Bob Fisher wrote:

hi guys i bought them from bowan tool in brantford ontario 756 2560 i
think? i believe they are danly die springs 3.5" by 1.5" green
extra
hd i will try and find the correct size in my notes buried!

bob fisher

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[Ken]

This just keeps getting better!
thanks again Bob
Ken

Bob Fisher wrote:

hi ken there is to be .2 in of preload as installed , the springs are
actually 3.7 in long ,the existing alloy washers can be machined down to
approx .75 for about .25 in so that the springs are centered and do not
touch the shafts

the nose wheel weight is about 300 lbs total

when I had the pucks , I basically had no suspension. you could jump up and
down on the floats and the wheel wouldn`t hardly move Now the wheel moves
visably , mayby an inch when you land it really cushions

you will not regret it !bob fisher

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken" <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 10:28 AM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] 1800 amphib die springs

Bob

I think that pretty much fingers PN 344-2414 as the specs seem about
right.
http://www.toolanddie.com/catalogs/SDS_ ... _GREEN.htm

A quick look has me estimating 570 lb load per spring at 1700 lb. gross
weight with no weight on the nosewheels.
A 5/8" id spring would fit the mechanism better but those springs are
not strong enough so the 3/4" id spring is chosen and probably some
washers are necessary at the ends. The mechanism allows for 3.8" max
spring length (That could easilly be increased but lets not go there
right now) so that leaves room for a couple of washers if we use a 3.5"
long free length spring with no preload. So a 570 lb load will compress
the spring almost 0.3 inches. That would leave an additional 0.5" of
travel available for bumps or say the ability to handle about a 2.75 g
hard landing if both mains hit together. That is the number that
concerns me most as the pucks wouldn't bottom out hard and guarantee
damage like a spring will tend to do but I'd bet that 2.75 g would
damage something else anyway so my concern fades away...

Sounds like a a great choice Bob. Thank you for sharing. Comments from
one and all encouraged...

Ken

Bob Fisher wrote:

hi guys i bought them from bowan tool in brantford ontario 756 2560 i
think? i believe they are danly die springs 3.5" by 1.5" green
extra
hd i will try and find the correct size in my notes buried!

bob fisher

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[Ken]

I posted a small pic of the 1800 amphib main gear suspension struts.
amphib_die_springs.jpg

On the bottom is the steel FL226 and aluminum FL225 that make up each strut.

One row up from the bottom shows the AN960-1016 washers and the FL260
elastomeric washers that were to be stacked up as originally supplied
with kit 043-18A in 1998.

The center row shows the upgraded parts that MAM sent out in 1998. A
5/16" thick aluminum FL265 washer was supplied for the top and bottom of
the strut. FL266 stainless washers (with a smaller inside hole than the
older AN washers) were supplied for stacking in between the elastomeric
washers.

One row below the top shows the 1.5"o.d. x 0.75 i.d. x 3.5" long extra
heavy duty die springs and modified FL265 aluminum washers for above and
below the die spring. I machined the outside edge of the upper washers
to 0.25" thick while leaving the inside edge full thickness but only
0.8" o.d. to center the die spring. Same thing for the lower washer
except I machined the outside edge of those down to 0.2". That gave me
1/8" of spring preload as I wanted a little less than the 0.2" of
preload that Bob Fisher mentioned. The upper washer is a bit thicker
since it is more highly stressed.

The top row shows all the pieces fitted together.

All credit for this idea goes to Bob Fisher. Thanks again Bob for
sharing with us.

Ken




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[british thunder]

looks great Ken.
I would like to order one set of springs and washers, before the end of
April, I'll give them a test run for you.
thanks
Cecil
014R

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken" <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2007 11:08 AM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] 1800 amphib die springs

I posted a small pic of the 1800 amphib main gear suspension struts.
amphib_die_springs.jpg

On the bottom is the steel FL226 and aluminum FL225 that make up each

strut.

One row up from the bottom shows the AN960-1016 washers and the FL260
elastomeric washers that were to be stacked up as originally supplied
with kit 043-18A in 1998.

The center row shows the upgraded parts that MAM sent out in 1998. A
5/16" thick aluminum FL265 washer was supplied for the top and bottom of
the strut. FL266 stainless washers (with a smaller inside hole than the
older AN washers) were supplied for stacking in between the elastomeric
washers.

One row below the top shows the 1.5"o.d. x 0.75 i.d. x 3.5" long extra
heavy duty die springs and modified FL265 aluminum washers for above and
below the die spring. I machined the outside edge of the upper washers
to 0.25" thick while leaving the inside edge full thickness but only
0.8" o.d. to center the die spring. Same thing for the lower washer
except I machined the outside edge of those down to 0.2". That gave me
1/8" of spring preload as I wanted a little less than the 0.2" of
preload that Bob Fisher mentioned. The upper washer is a bit thicker
since it is more highly stressed.

The top row shows all the pieces fitted together.

All credit for this idea goes to Bob Fisher. Thanks again Bob for
sharing with us.

Ken




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[Angus McKenzie]

Me too, Ken..........Angus


----- Original Message -----
From: "british thunder" <britishthunder@sympatico.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 9:49 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] 1800 amphib die springs

looks great Ken.
I would like to order one set of springs and washers, before the end of
April, I'll give them a test run for you.
thanks
Cecil
014R

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken" <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2007 11:08 AM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] 1800 amphib die springs

I posted a small pic of the 1800 amphib main gear suspension struts.
amphib_die_springs.jpg

On the bottom is the steel FL226 and aluminum FL225 that make up each

strut.

One row up from the bottom shows the AN960-1016 washers and the FL260
elastomeric washers that were to be stacked up as originally supplied
with kit 043-18A in 1998.

The center row shows the upgraded parts that MAM sent out in 1998. A
5/16" thick aluminum FL265 washer was supplied for the top and bottom of
the strut. FL266 stainless washers (with a smaller inside hole than the
older AN washers) were supplied for stacking in between the elastomeric
washers.

One row below the top shows the 1.5"o.d. x 0.75 i.d. x 3.5" long extra
heavy duty die springs and modified FL265 aluminum washers for above and
below the die spring. I machined the outside edge of the upper washers
to 0.25" thick while leaving the inside edge full thickness but only
0.8" o.d. to center the die spring. Same thing for the lower washer
except I machined the outside edge of those down to 0.2". That gave me
1/8" of spring preload as I wanted a little less than the 0.2" of
preload that Bob Fisher mentioned. The upper washer is a bit thicker
since it is more highly stressed.

The top row shows all the pieces fitted together.

All credit for this idea goes to Bob Fisher. Thanks again Bob for
sharing with us.

Ken




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[Ken]

I don't really need more things to do guys but maybe someone has a lathe
and a son or daughter that needs a hobby, a little income, and some
business experience? Perhaps someone looking for an excuse to buy one
of those small imported lathes?

The washers are simple but a bit time consuming to make manually
although much quicker if one purchased them from MAM to modify. I don't
think there is much discount for buying springs in quantity but there
are cheaper sources than the local supplier that I used. Or just supply
washers since the springs are a standard off the shelf part. The
washers are made from 1.5" diameter aluminum bar and they could all be
the same thickness (perhaps 0.225" under the spring) instead of using
two different thicknesses like I did.

Ken

Angus McKenzie wrote:

Me too, Ken..........Angus


----- Original Message -----
From: "british thunder" <britishthunder@sympatico.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 9:49 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] 1800 amphib die springs

looks great Ken.
I would like to order one set of springs and washers, before the end of
April, I'll give them a test run for you.
thanks
Cecil
014R

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken" <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2007 11:08 AM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] 1800 amphib die springs

I posted a small pic of the 1800 amphib main gear suspension struts.
amphib_die_springs.jpg

On the bottom is the steel FL226 and aluminum FL225 that make up each

strut.

One row up from the bottom shows the AN960-1016 washers and the FL260
elastomeric washers that were to be stacked up as originally supplied
with kit 043-18A in 1998.

The center row shows the upgraded parts that MAM sent out in 1998. A
5/16" thick aluminum FL265 washer was supplied for the top and bottom of
the strut. FL266 stainless washers (with a smaller inside hole than the
older AN washers) were supplied for stacking in between the elastomeric
washers.

One row below the top shows the 1.5"o.d. x 0.75 i.d. x 3.5" long extra
heavy duty die springs and modified FL265 aluminum washers for above and
below the die spring. I machined the outside edge of the upper washers
to 0.25" thick while leaving the inside edge full thickness but only
0.8" o.d. to center the die spring. Same thing for the lower washer
except I machined the outside edge of those down to 0.2". That gave me
1/8" of spring preload as I wanted a little less than the 0.2" of
preload that Bob Fisher mentioned. The upper washer is a bit thicker
since it is more highly stressed.

The top row shows all the pieces fitted together.

All credit for this idea goes to Bob Fisher. Thanks again Bob for
sharing with us.

Ken

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[Clay Smith]

Hi Bob, what area code should I use for this Bowan Tool company where you
got your springs. I'm having problems locating these springs locally. (NL)
Thanks.

Clay

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Fisher" <rgfisher@zeuter.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 10:36 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] 1800 amphib die springs

hi guys i bought them from bowan tool in brantford ontario 756 2560 i
think? i believe they are danly die springs 3.5" by 1.5" green
extra
hd i will try and find the correct size in my notes buried!

bob fisher
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken" <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 9:42 AM
Subject: [rebel-builders] 1800 amphib die springs

Hi Bob
Can you tell us where you purchased the springs
or a part number or any further specs for them ??
thanks
Ken

Bob Fisher wrote:

hi guys die springs are working great noooo sag 2 yrs in use
bob
fisher

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[Bob Patterson]

Hi Clay !

Might be these guys .....

J.P. Bowman Ltd. 55 Sinclair Blvd. Brantford,. Ontario, Canada. N3S 7X6.
Phone: 519-752-6533. Fax: 519-752-0672. Email: info@jpbowmantool.com

--
......bobp
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Monday 13 August 2007 16:25, Clay Smith wrote:

Hi Bob, what area code should I use for this Bowan Tool company where you
got your springs. I'm having problems locating these springs locally. (NL)
Thanks.

Clay

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Fisher" <rgfisher@zeuter.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 10:36 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] 1800 amphib die springs

hi guys i bought them from bowan tool in brantford ontario 756 2560
i think? i believe they are danly die springs 3.5" by 1.5" green
extra
hd i will try and find the correct size in my notes buried!

bob fisher
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken" <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 9:42 AM
Subject: [rebel-builders] 1800 amphib die springs

Hi Bob
Can you tell us where you purchased the springs
or a part number or any further specs for them ??
thanks
Ken

Bob Fisher wrote:

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[Bob Fisher]

hi clay bob got it right as usual fish


----- Original Message -----
From: "Clay Smith" <cbsmith@nf.sympatico.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 12:25 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] 1800 amphib die springs

Hi Bob, what area code should I use for this Bowan Tool company where you
got your springs. I'm having problems locating these springs locally.
(NL)
Thanks.

Clay

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Fisher" <rgfisher@zeuter.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 10:36 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] 1800 amphib die springs

hi guys i bought them from bowan tool in brantford ontario 756 2560
i
think? i believe they are danly die springs 3.5" by 1.5" green
extra
hd i will try and find the correct size in my notes buried!

bob fisher
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken" <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 9:42 AM
Subject: [rebel-builders] 1800 amphib die springs

Hi Bob
Can you tell us where you purchased the springs
or a part number or any further specs for them ??
thanks
Ken

Bob Fisher wrote:



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[Drew Dalgleish]

Angus and I got our springs from windsor factory supply in london

At 06:19 PM 8/13/2007 -0400, you wrote:

hi clay bob got it right as usual fish


----- Original Message -----
From: "Clay Smith" <cbsmith@nf.sympatico.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 12:25 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] 1800 amphib die springs

Hi Bob, what area code should I use for this Bowan Tool company where you
got your springs. I'm having problems locating these springs locally.
(NL)
Thanks.

Clay

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Fisher" <rgfisher@zeuter.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 10:36 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] 1800 amphib die springs

hi guys i bought them from bowan tool in brantford ontario 756 2560
i
think? i believe they are danly die springs 3.5" by 1.5" green
extra
hd i will try and find the correct size in my notes buried!

bob fisher
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken" <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 9:42 AM
Subject: [rebel-builders] 1800 amphib die springs




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Drew



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[Clay Smith]

I found some springs at Anchor Machine in Cambridge Ont. (Bowan Tool didn't
have any in stock) The price surprises me at only $14.51 per (green)spring.
Does this sound about right?

Clay

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Fisher" <rgfisher@zeuter.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 7:49 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] 1800 amphib die springs

hi clay bob got it right as usual fish


----- Original Message -----
From: "Clay Smith" <cbsmith@nf.sympatico.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 12:25 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] 1800 amphib die springs

Hi Bob, what area code should I use for this Bowan Tool company where you
got your springs. I'm having problems locating these springs locally.
(NL)
Thanks.

Clay

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Fisher" <rgfisher@zeuter.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 10:36 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] 1800 amphib die springs

hi guys i bought them from bowan tool in brantford ontario 756 2560
i
think? i believe they are danly die springs 3.5" by 1.5" green
extra
hd i will try and find the correct size in my notes buried!

bob fisher
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken" <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 9:42 AM
Subject: [rebel-builders] 1800 amphib die springs




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