Jesse,
I am not sure what is occuring on your installation. There should not be a sag in the tip. The tip if installed as I state in instruction has always worked. The main goal is to first slide the tip on the required amount on the top. Locate the front of tip and install small screw to hold leading edge in place. Next, lay a straight edge on the top of tip. (I used a 4' level). Raise the tip using the outer edge until you have a perfect gap between the straight edge and the top of wing. ( Top of spar is a good area for straight edge). On top of wing, attach with one screw (in a spot that you would be installing a permanate attachment). This will hold the tip on. With this done, the tip should be in perfect trail with cord of wing. Put a screw in the bottom to hold in place.
From this point you align the aleiron to the tip. If the wing is on the plane, rig cables to this point. Note me back if there is something I am missing.
Dave Fife
Jesse Jenks <jessejenks@hotmail.com> wrote:
Starting to install tips. If I line up the upper surface of the tip with the
top of the wing (top of tip horizontal spanwise) then the trailing edge
angles down if you sight along trailing edge of flaperon and tip. Fife's
instructions say to use a straightedge along the top of the wing and tip. I
like the look of a straight trailing edge, and think it will look funny if
the tips sag at the trailing edge. Has anyone else had this issue?
Thanks.
Jesse
_________________________________________________________________
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David K. Fife
3D Composite Aircraft Parts Inc.
428 N. Linwood Beach Rd
Linwood, MI. 48634
989-697-3277
Long EZ in progress.
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[rebel-builders] Installing Fife hoerner tips
-
Ron Shannon
[rebel-builders] Installing Fife hoerner tips
Dave,
I'll be installing your tips soon as well. I was having a hard time
visualizing the procedure though, in particular the use/orientation of a
straight edge on top of the tip surface. Until a few minutes ago, I had
been assuming the straight edge should be perpendicular to the spar,
even though it obviously wouldn't lay down flat on the top of the tip or
wing. Not!
I just now figured out (duh) that (if I've got this right) the straight
edge should be laid across the top of the wing tip on a line _parallel_
to the wing spar and _perpendicular_ to the fuselage. The straight edge
(such as a 4' level) should then extend inboard _past_ the the top fore
and aft edge of the tip toward the fuselage a ways, hanging over the
wing spar, so to speak. The "perfect gap" we're looking for might be
better called a "constant gap", essentially the thickness of the tip
material, all along and between the extended, hanging straight edge and
the top of the wing. In other words, the vertical gap between the
extended, inboard end of the straight edge (hanging over the wing) and
the top of the wing, roughly two feet inboard from the tip edge, should
be the same as the gap between the straight edge and the wing skin right
at the inboard edge of the tip, where the gap will, of course, be equal
to the approx. 5/32"-3/16" thickness of the tip material.
The object of the procedure (once the leading edge has been pinned down)
is to align the top surface of the tip, looking at it perpendicular to
the wing, so it is at the same dihedral angle as the top of the wing
itself. In other words, it should be aligned in the horizontal plane so
there is no droop along a line from the fuse to the outboard end of the
wing tip -- creating a continuous dihedral angle.
This degree of candor is painful <g> but nevertheless, in a weak attempt
to defend my prior confusion (yes, there IS a defense or, that's my
story and I'm stickin' to it!)) there's an implication to this that is
counterintuitive, perhaps. When the tip is properly aligned, the fore
and aft edge of the tip, on top of the wing, may not describe a line
over the top of the wing that is always _exactly_ straight and
perpendicular to the fuse, or at least, we shouldn't worry about it so
long as both wing tips start out having the same wing overlap at the
leading edge. Instead, if we make sure the tip is set at the correct
dihedral angle, this means for all we care the line along the fore and
aft edge of the tip material on top of the wing _might_ actually even
have a small curve in it as it sits on the wing. This also means that at
least initially, we're not concerned with measuring/avoiding any
relative fore and aft "droop" from the leading edge to the trailing
edge, simply because with this procedure there shouldn't be (Dave says
won't be) any droop in the tip itself along the wing chord anyway. Correct?
Sorry for the lengthy verbiage, but I'm trying to be extra clear on
this, describing it several ways so I, and maybe others "get it". I
wonder how many other people also start out trying to visualize the
installation requiring a straight line lying perpendicular to the wing,
parallel to the fuselage. After my mental light bulb turned on, I
realized the "dihedral explanation" is so obvious maybe only a few of us
(or just one, ouch!) are this, uh, dense. :-) I think I got confused by
thinking the top edge of the tip, as it lies over the wing, _must_ be a
uniform distance in from the outer edge of the wing, and/or
perpendicular to the wing, and was trying to visualize how to make the
edge of the tip be on or parallel to such a line. Instead, the important
thing in this procedure is just the matching up the dihedral angle, or
uniform "levelness" of the wing tip and the wing. Right?
Forever seeking more "Aha!" moments,
Ron
PS - All the "normal" people can stop laughing now. :-)
Dave Fife wrote:
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I'll be installing your tips soon as well. I was having a hard time
visualizing the procedure though, in particular the use/orientation of a
straight edge on top of the tip surface. Until a few minutes ago, I had
been assuming the straight edge should be perpendicular to the spar,
even though it obviously wouldn't lay down flat on the top of the tip or
wing. Not!
I just now figured out (duh) that (if I've got this right) the straight
edge should be laid across the top of the wing tip on a line _parallel_
to the wing spar and _perpendicular_ to the fuselage. The straight edge
(such as a 4' level) should then extend inboard _past_ the the top fore
and aft edge of the tip toward the fuselage a ways, hanging over the
wing spar, so to speak. The "perfect gap" we're looking for might be
better called a "constant gap", essentially the thickness of the tip
material, all along and between the extended, hanging straight edge and
the top of the wing. In other words, the vertical gap between the
extended, inboard end of the straight edge (hanging over the wing) and
the top of the wing, roughly two feet inboard from the tip edge, should
be the same as the gap between the straight edge and the wing skin right
at the inboard edge of the tip, where the gap will, of course, be equal
to the approx. 5/32"-3/16" thickness of the tip material.
The object of the procedure (once the leading edge has been pinned down)
is to align the top surface of the tip, looking at it perpendicular to
the wing, so it is at the same dihedral angle as the top of the wing
itself. In other words, it should be aligned in the horizontal plane so
there is no droop along a line from the fuse to the outboard end of the
wing tip -- creating a continuous dihedral angle.
This degree of candor is painful <g> but nevertheless, in a weak attempt
to defend my prior confusion (yes, there IS a defense or, that's my
story and I'm stickin' to it!)) there's an implication to this that is
counterintuitive, perhaps. When the tip is properly aligned, the fore
and aft edge of the tip, on top of the wing, may not describe a line
over the top of the wing that is always _exactly_ straight and
perpendicular to the fuse, or at least, we shouldn't worry about it so
long as both wing tips start out having the same wing overlap at the
leading edge. Instead, if we make sure the tip is set at the correct
dihedral angle, this means for all we care the line along the fore and
aft edge of the tip material on top of the wing _might_ actually even
have a small curve in it as it sits on the wing. This also means that at
least initially, we're not concerned with measuring/avoiding any
relative fore and aft "droop" from the leading edge to the trailing
edge, simply because with this procedure there shouldn't be (Dave says
won't be) any droop in the tip itself along the wing chord anyway. Correct?
Sorry for the lengthy verbiage, but I'm trying to be extra clear on
this, describing it several ways so I, and maybe others "get it". I
wonder how many other people also start out trying to visualize the
installation requiring a straight line lying perpendicular to the wing,
parallel to the fuselage. After my mental light bulb turned on, I
realized the "dihedral explanation" is so obvious maybe only a few of us
(or just one, ouch!) are this, uh, dense. :-) I think I got confused by
thinking the top edge of the tip, as it lies over the wing, _must_ be a
uniform distance in from the outer edge of the wing, and/or
perpendicular to the wing, and was trying to visualize how to make the
edge of the tip be on or parallel to such a line. Instead, the important
thing in this procedure is just the matching up the dihedral angle, or
uniform "levelness" of the wing tip and the wing. Right?
Forever seeking more "Aha!" moments,
Ron
PS - All the "normal" people can stop laughing now. :-)
Dave Fife wrote:
Jesse,
I am not sure what is occuring on your installation. There should not be a sag in the tip. The tip if installed as I state in instruction has always worked. The main goal is to first slide the tip on the required amount on the top. Locate the front of tip and install small screw to hold leading edge in place. Next, lay a straight edge on the top of tip. (I used a 4' level). Raise the tip using the outer edge until you have a perfect gap between the straight edge and the top of wing. ( Top of spar is a good area for straight edge). On top of wing, attach with one screw (in a spot that you would be installing a permanate attachment). This will hold the tip on. With this done, the tip should be in perfect trail with cord of wing. Put a screw in the bottom to hold in place.
From this point you align the aleiron to the tip. If the wing is on the plane, rig cables to this point. Note me back if there is something I am missing.
Dave Fife
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-
Ron Shannon
[rebel-builders] Installing Fife hoerner tips
Dave,
If I align the ailerons to the tips (for neutral) does it follow I
should install the tips before completing the control system adjustments
(current Ch. 20), which call for a neutral aileron setting during those
procedures? That's where I am at the moment -- torque tubes & hanger
complete, ready for the push pull tubes.
Also, if the ailerons are adjusted for neutral to the tips first, then
will they still match up with "straight back" inboard wing fairings too?
If there's no droop in the tips as compared with the wing chord, it
seems like they should match up on the inboard side too. I know there's
been quite a bit of discussion touching on aileron/fairing alignment in
the past, though perhaps not with specific reference to your suggested
tip installation procedure.
Ron
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If I align the ailerons to the tips (for neutral) does it follow I
should install the tips before completing the control system adjustments
(current Ch. 20), which call for a neutral aileron setting during those
procedures? That's where I am at the moment -- torque tubes & hanger
complete, ready for the push pull tubes.
Also, if the ailerons are adjusted for neutral to the tips first, then
will they still match up with "straight back" inboard wing fairings too?
If there's no droop in the tips as compared with the wing chord, it
seems like they should match up on the inboard side too. I know there's
been quite a bit of discussion touching on aileron/fairing alignment in
the past, though perhaps not with specific reference to your suggested
tip installation procedure.
Ron
...Dave Fife wrote:
From this point you align the aleiron to the tip.
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-
Jesse Jenks
[rebel-builders] Installing Fife hoerner tips
Thanks for the reply Dave,
I understand your installation instructions, but unfortunately that didn't
work for me (at least the left one, I haven't done the right side yet). My
left tip definitely has a compound curve in the top surface, you can see it.
If I use the straightedge method you describe at the main spar, then the
trailing edge droops. If I do the straightedge method at several locations
along the top surface, then I can see exactly where the twist starts. As I
said, I chose to have the trailing edge straight and let the mid section go
up a little. I wish it was not this way, but it is. I'm just hoping the
right side is the same, otherwise it probably won't fly straight.
Jesse
Picture this
I understand your installation instructions, but unfortunately that didn't
work for me (at least the left one, I haven't done the right side yet). My
left tip definitely has a compound curve in the top surface, you can see it.
If I use the straightedge method you describe at the main spar, then the
trailing edge droops. If I do the straightedge method at several locations
along the top surface, then I can see exactly where the twist starts. As I
said, I chose to have the trailing edge straight and let the mid section go
up a little. I wish it was not this way, but it is. I'm just hoping the
right side is the same, otherwise it probably won't fly straight.
Jesse
_________________________________________________________________From: Dave Fife <aircrafttips@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Installing Fife hoerner tips
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 07:09:05 -0700 (PDT)
Jesse,
I am not sure what is occuring on your installation. There should not
be a sag in the tip. The tip if installed as I state in instruction has
always worked. The main goal is to first slide the tip on the required
amount on the top. Locate the front of tip and install small screw to hold
leading edge in place. Next, lay a straight edge on the top of tip. (I
used a 4' level). Raise the tip using the outer edge until you have a
perfect gap between the straight edge and the top of wing. ( Top of spar
is a good area for straight edge). On top of wing, attach with one screw
(in a spot that you would be installing a permanate attachment). This will
hold the tip on. With this done, the tip should be in perfect trail
with cord of wing. Put a screw in the bottom to hold in place.
From this point you align the aleiron to the tip. If the wing is on the
plane, rig cables to this point. Note me back if there is something I am
missing.
Dave Fife
Jesse Jenks <jessejenks@hotmail.com> wrote:
Starting to install tips. If I line up the upper surface of the tip with
the
top of the wing (top of tip horizontal spanwise) then the trailing edge
angles down if you sight along trailing edge of flaperon and tip. Fife's
instructions say to use a straightedge along the top of the wing and tip. I
like the look of a straight trailing edge, and think it will look funny if
the tips sag at the trailing edge. Has anyone else had this issue?
Thanks.
Jesse
_________________________________________________________________
Get a preview of Live Earth, the hottest event this summer - only on MSN
http://liveearth.msn.com?source=msntaglineliveearthhm
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username "rebel" password "builder"
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David K. Fife
3D Composite Aircraft Parts Inc.
428 N. Linwood Beach Rd
Linwood, MI. 48634
989-697-3277
Long EZ in progress.
---------------------------------
Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.
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Picture this
