[rebel-builders] Engine miss?

Rick Harper · Post by **Rick Harper** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:11 pm

G'day from OZ, Mike !

Not sure if this is going to help - but it's easy to test for anyway ....

We had "a weird miss" in our Rebel with the old sooped up 0-235 (making around 140 HP at the time) ..... but it only did it at certain throttle settings

When you get this "miss" happening - just try pulling on carby heat - you'll obviously get a slight drop in RPM ..... but just see if it stops the miss ......
(this will only take a few seconds to test for - so give it a try)

We had a "SUPER POSA" - (early throttle body type carby) ..... we found that it formed little chunks of ice "sometimes / under certain loads & conditions" - which fell off & got ingested fairly regularly ..... causing what we originally thought was an electrical miss every now & then

Just another item to cross off your checklist !

Rick "Biggus" Harper
541R

----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Betti
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 2:45 AM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?

I removed the primer today and capped off both lines, same problem :(
The prop is cautioned for use at 2150-2350. 2400 and 2500 is my problem
area. My smoothest operation has been in the cautioned area. I can cruise at
2400 but I still get that little hickup every once in the while. It's not
enough to shake the plane but I can detect it with through my feet more than
anything, you have to pay attention to notice it. Feels electrical like one
plug missing a beat once in the while, but it does it on both mags. Not sure
if I want to pull the carb or try another set of plugs.
Mike Betti

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 2:17 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?

Sounds similar to a problem Walter had. Are your primer lines flared and
do
you have a male and female cap...that you can take the line off the primer
outlet and cap both it and the line...then go play again.

People told me I was nuts with that diagnosis on Walters bird...but Walter
didn't !

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@hughes.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 3:08 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?

It does it at pattern here, 2000 msl as it does at any other altitude,
when
I stop my climb and power back is the main factor. About a 200 rpm
window.
Get out of that range and all fine. I haven't tried running it there
continuously to see if it persist, less than a minute and I am adjusting
throttle. This is a simiular thing I might experience when leaning too.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 9:41 AM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?

When you say "at altittude"..how high we talkin? Bob P found out that
his/my
freshly overhauled, by Leavens, engine/mags had cracked coils that only
misfired when he was way up there.

----- Original Message -----
From: "michael betti" <mbetti@hughes.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 10:31 AM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?

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Bob Patterson · Post by **Bob Patterson** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:11 pm

Hi Mike !

You might try an optical tach - could be your tach is off a bit, and you
are still in a harmonic range ... Or it may be a harmonic standing wave
in the induction system - you could try one run with the air filter foam
removed ....

All of the factory Elite pilots agreed - the O-360 needs to be cruised
at 2,550 or higher - - it just doesn't like to run smoothly under 2,500 ....
and Lycoming, for the most part, agrees it's best to stay out of the
2100 - 2450 range.

--
......bobp
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Sunday 17 June 2007 12:45, Mike Betti wrote:

I removed the primer today and capped off both lines, same problem :(
The prop is cautioned for use at 2150-2350. 2400 and 2500 is my problem
area. My smoothest operation has been in the cautioned area. I can cruise
at 2400 but I still get that little hickup every once in the while. It's
not enough to shake the plane but I can detect it with through my feet more
than anything, you have to pay attention to notice it. Feels electrical
like one plug missing a beat once in the while, but it does it on both
mags. Not sure if I want to pull the carb or try another set of plugs.
Mike Betti

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 2:17 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?

Sounds similar to a problem Walter had. Are your primer lines flared and
do
you have a male and female cap...that you can take the line off the
primer outlet and cap both it and the line...then go play again.

People told me I was nuts with that diagnosis on Walters bird...but
Walter didn't !

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@hughes.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 3:08 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?

It does it at pattern here, 2000 msl as it does at any other altitude,
when
I stop my climb and power back is the main factor. About a 200 rpm
window.
Get out of that range and all fine. I haven't tried running it there
continuously to see if it persist, less than a minute and I am adjusting
throttle. This is a simiular thing I might experience when leaning too.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 9:41 AM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?

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Mike Betti · Post by **Mike Betti** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:11 pm

Thanks for the ideas, carb heat I'll try and tach check. The air filter
would be no easy thing to try, it's a K&N in a Vans airbox. Have to pull
both cowls, etc.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <beep@sympatico.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 5:16 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?

Hi Mike !

You might try an optical tach - could be your tach is off a bit, and
you
are still in a harmonic range ... Or it may be a harmonic standing wave
in the induction system - you could try one run with the air filter foam
removed ....

All of the factory Elite pilots agreed - the O-360 needs to be cruised
at 2,550 or higher - - it just doesn't like to run smoothly under 2,500
....
and Lycoming, for the most part, agrees it's best to stay out of the
2100 - 2450 range.

--
......bobp
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Sunday 17 June 2007 12:45, Mike Betti wrote:
I removed the primer today and capped off both lines, same problem :(
The prop is cautioned for use at 2150-2350. 2400 and 2500 is my problem
area. My smoothest operation has been in the cautioned area. I can cruise
at 2400 but I still get that little hickup every once in the while. It's
not enough to shake the plane but I can detect it with through my feet
more
than anything, you have to pay attention to notice it. Feels electrical
like one plug missing a beat once in the while, but it does it on both
mags. Not sure if I want to pull the carb or try another set of plugs.
Mike Betti

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 2:17 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?

Sounds similar to a problem Walter had. Are your primer lines flared
and
do
you have a male and female cap...that you can take the line off the
primer outlet and cap both it and the line...then go play again.

People told me I was nuts with that diagnosis on Walters bird...but
Walter didn't !

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@hughes.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 3:08 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?

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Mike Betti · Post by **Mike Betti** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:12 pm

Update on problem. I flew it tonight and noticed that the problem goes away
above 5000' msl. I can't say for sure about this but it makes sense so far.
I need to test another night to see if there is a pattern. So what does it
mean. The problem is from about 2400 to 2600. Full throttle ok and anything
less than that ok. Engine just gives a little jerk you feel in the pedals or
firewall that happens say every 3-5 seconds. In the beginning I noticed this
problem only after climbing out and leveling off or when doing a low pass,
climbing out, and then leveling off. I may of noticed it more pronounced on
a heavy, rainy kind of day also.
Mike Betti
771E

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Harper" <rjwh@optusnet.com.au>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 4:38 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?

G'day from OZ, Mike !

Not sure if this is going to help - but it's easy to test for anyway
....

We had "a weird miss" in our Rebel with the old sooped up 0-235 (making
around 140 HP at the time) ..... but it only did it at certain throttle
settings

When you get this "miss" happening - just try pulling on carby heat -
you'll obviously get a slight drop in RPM ..... but just see if it stops
the miss ......
(this will only take a few seconds to test for - so give it a try)

We had a "SUPER POSA" - (early throttle body type carby) ..... we found
that it formed little chunks of ice "sometimes / under certain loads &
conditions" - which fell off & got ingested fairly regularly .....
causing what we originally thought was an electrical miss every now & then

Just another item to cross off your checklist !

Rick "Biggus" Harper
541R

----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Betti
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 2:45 AM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?

I removed the primer today and capped off both lines, same problem :(
The prop is cautioned for use at 2150-2350. 2400 and 2500 is my problem
area. My smoothest operation has been in the cautioned area. I can cruise
at
2400 but I still get that little hickup every once in the while. It's not
enough to shake the plane but I can detect it with through my feet more
than
anything, you have to pay attention to notice it. Feels electrical like
one
plug missing a beat once in the while, but it does it on both mags. Not
sure
if I want to pull the carb or try another set of plugs.
Mike Betti

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 2:17 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?

Sounds similar to a problem Walter had. Are your primer lines flared
and
do
you have a male and female cap...that you can take the line off the
primer
outlet and cap both it and the line...then go play again.

People told me I was nuts with that diagnosis on Walters bird...but
Walter
didn't !

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@hughes.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 3:08 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?

It does it at pattern here, 2000 msl as it does at any other altitude,
when
I stop my climb and power back is the main factor. About a 200 rpm
window.
Get out of that range and all fine. I haven't tried running it there
continuously to see if it persist, less than a minute and I am
adjusting
throttle. This is a simiular thing I might experience when leaning
too.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 9:41 AM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?

only
if
back
go
either,
are
about
can't

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Bob Patterson · Post by **Bob Patterson** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:12 pm

Hi Mike !

Hmmmm ... You have the opposite of the problem I had ! Mine started
missing above 8,000 ft ...

If it goes away with altitude, your mixture might be just a bit rich -
have you tried leaning a bit when it's rough ?? Lean until you get
an rpm drop, then push in just enough to get back to peak, plus
enough so it just starts to drop again....

Being a bit rich would explain why Rick's suggestion of carb
heat wouldn't help ... it might make it worse....

--
......bobp
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Tuesday 19 June 2007 21:47, Mike Betti wrote:

Update on problem. I flew it tonight and noticed that the problem goes away
above 5000' msl. I can't say for sure about this but it makes sense so far.
I need to test another night to see if there is a pattern. So what does it
mean. The problem is from about 2400 to 2600. Full throttle ok and anything
less than that ok. Engine just gives a little jerk you feel in the pedals
or firewall that happens say every 3-5 seconds. In the beginning I noticed
this problem only after climbing out and leveling off or when doing a low
pass, climbing out, and then leveling off. I may of noticed it more
pronounced on a heavy, rainy kind of day also.
Mike Betti
771E

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Harper" <rjwh@optusnet.com.au>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 4:38 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?

G'day from OZ, Mike !

Not sure if this is going to help - but it's easy to test for anyway
....

We had "a weird miss" in our Rebel with the old sooped up 0-235 (making
around 140 HP at the time) ..... but it only did it at certain throttle
settings

When you get this "miss" happening - just try pulling on carby heat -
you'll obviously get a slight drop in RPM ..... but just see if it stops
the miss ......
(this will only take a few seconds to test for - so give it a try)

We had a "SUPER POSA" - (early throttle body type carby) ..... we found
that it formed little chunks of ice "sometimes / under certain loads &
conditions" - which fell off & got ingested fairly regularly .....
causing what we originally thought was an electrical miss every now &
then

Just another item to cross off your checklist !

Rick "Biggus" Harper
541R

----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Betti
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 2:45 AM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?

I removed the primer today and capped off both lines, same problem :(
The prop is cautioned for use at 2150-2350. 2400 and 2500 is my problem
area. My smoothest operation has been in the cautioned area. I can
cruise at
2400 but I still get that little hickup every once in the while. It's
not enough to shake the plane but I can detect it with through my feet
more than
anything, you have to pay attention to notice it. Feels electrical like
one
plug missing a beat once in the while, but it does it on both mags. Not
sure
if I want to pull the carb or try another set of plugs.
Mike Betti

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 2:17 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?

Sounds similar to a problem Walter had. Are your primer lines flared
and

do
you have a male and female cap...that you can take the line off the
primer

outlet and cap both it and the line...then go play again.

People told me I was nuts with that diagnosis on Walters bird...but
Walter

didn't !

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@hughes.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 3:08 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?

adjusting

too.

only

if

back

go

either,

are

about

can't

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Rick Muller · Post by **Rick Muller** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:12 pm

A thought, as you advance the throttle in the cabin, is the advancement of
the throttle on the engine and is the increase of gas flow linear? Is an
increase of the throttle in the cabin of say 1/2" a constant angular
increase of the throttle arm on the carburetor and is the gas flow increase
for such an increase a set number of GPH. If the answer is yes, never mind.
If the answer is yes it might be worth looking into.

Rick Muller
SR70
-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Mike
Betti
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 6:47 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?

Update on problem. I flew it tonight and noticed that the problem goes away
above 5000' msl. I can't say for sure about this but it makes sense so far.
I need to test another night to see if there is a pattern. So what does it
mean. The problem is from about 2400 to 2600. Full throttle ok and anything
less than that ok. Engine just gives a little jerk you feel in the pedals or
firewall that happens say every 3-5 seconds. In the beginning I noticed this
problem only after climbing out and leveling off or when doing a low pass,
climbing out, and then leveling off. I may of noticed it more pronounced on
a heavy, rainy kind of day also.
Mike Betti
771E

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Harper" <rjwh@optusnet.com.au>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 4:38 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?

G'day from OZ, Mike !

Not sure if this is going to help - but it's easy to test for anyway
....

We had "a weird miss" in our Rebel with the old sooped up 0-235 (making
around 140 HP at the time) ..... but it only did it at certain throttle
settings

When you get this "miss" happening - just try pulling on carby heat -
you'll obviously get a slight drop in RPM ..... but just see if it stops
the miss ......
(this will only take a few seconds to test for - so give it a try)

We had a "SUPER POSA" - (early throttle body type carby) ..... we found
that it formed little chunks of ice "sometimes / under certain loads &
conditions" - which fell off & got ingested fairly regularly .....
causing what we originally thought was an electrical miss every now & then

Just another item to cross off your checklist !

Rick "Biggus" Harper
541R

----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Betti
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 2:45 AM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?

I removed the primer today and capped off both lines, same problem :(
The prop is cautioned for use at 2150-2350. 2400 and 2500 is my problem
area. My smoothest operation has been in the cautioned area. I can cruise
at
2400 but I still get that little hickup every once in the while. It's not
enough to shake the plane but I can detect it with through my feet more
than
anything, you have to pay attention to notice it. Feels electrical like
one
plug missing a beat once in the while, but it does it on both mags. Not
sure
if I want to pull the carb or try another set of plugs.
Mike Betti

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 2:17 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?

Sounds similar to a problem Walter had. Are your primer lines flared
and
do
you have a male and female cap...that you can take the line off the
primer
outlet and cap both it and the line...then go play again.

People told me I was nuts with that diagnosis on Walters bird...but
Walter
didn't !

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@hughes.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 3:08 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?

It does it at pattern here, 2000 msl as it does at any other altitude,
when
I stop my climb and power back is the main factor. About a 200 rpm
window.
Get out of that range and all fine. I haven't tried running it there
continuously to see if it persist, less than a minute and I am
adjusting
throttle. This is a simiular thing I might experience when leaning
too.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 9:41 AM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?

only
if
back
go
either,
are
about
can't

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michael betti · Post by **michael betti** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:12 pm

That's the weird part. I try leaning when the engine is doing this and
nothing changes, other than it runs a little rougher because of being
lean. This problem I am having is pretty insignificant. You can cruise
all day long with it doing this and most people probably wouldn't
notice, but it is there. Just a slight jerk in the engine like the
ignition was interrupted for a split second.
Mike

----Original Message----
From: beep@sympatico.ca
Date: 06/19/2007 21:42
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subj: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?

Hi Mike !

Hmmmm ... You have the opposite of the problem I had ! Mine
started
missing above 8,000 ft ...

If it goes away with altitude, your mixture might be just a bit
rich -
have you tried leaning a bit when it's rough ?? Lean until you get
an rpm drop, then push in just enough to get back to peak, plus
enough so it just starts to drop again....

Being a bit rich would explain why Rick's suggestion of carb
heat wouldn't help ... it might make it worse....

--
......bobp
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Tuesday 19 June 2007 21:47, Mike Betti wrote:

Update on problem. I flew it tonight and noticed that the problem

goes away

above 5000' msl. I can't say for sure about this but it makes sense

so far.

I need to test another night to see if there is a pattern. So what

does it

mean. The problem is from about 2400 to 2600. Full throttle ok and

anything

less than that ok. Engine just gives a little jerk you feel in the

pedals

or firewall that happens say every 3-5 seconds. In the beginning I

noticed

this problem only after climbing out and leveling off or when doing

a low

pass, climbing out, and then leveling off. I may of noticed it more
pronounced on a heavy, rainy kind of day also.
Mike Betti
771E

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Harper" <rjwh@optusnet.com.au>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 4:38 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?

G'day from OZ, Mike !

Not sure if this is going to help - but it's easy to test for

anyway

....

We had "a weird miss" in our Rebel with the old sooped up 0-235

(making

around 140 HP at the time) ..... but it only did it at certain

throttle

settings

When you get this "miss" happening - just try pulling on carby

heat -

you'll obviously get a slight drop in RPM ..... but just see if it

stops

the miss ......
(this will only take a few seconds to test for - so give it a try)

We had a "SUPER POSA" - (early throttle body type carby) ..... we

found

that it formed little chunks of ice "sometimes / under certain

loads &

conditions" - which fell off & got ingested fairly regularly

.....

causing what we originally thought was an electrical miss every

now &

then

Just another item to cross off your checklist !

Rick "Biggus" Harper
541R

----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Betti
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 2:45 AM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?

I removed the primer today and capped off both lines, same

problem :(

The prop is cautioned for use at 2150-2350. 2400 and 2500 is my

problem

area. My smoothest operation has been in the cautioned area. I

can

cruise at
2400 but I still get that little hickup every once in the while.

It's

not enough to shake the plane but I can detect it with through my

feet

more than
anything, you have to pay attention to notice it. Feels

electrical like

one
plug missing a beat once in the while, but it does it on both

mags. Not

sure
if I want to pull the carb or try another set of plugs.
Mike Betti

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 2:17 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?

Sounds similar to a problem Walter had. Are your primer lines

flared

and

do
you have a male and female cap...that you can take the line off

the

primer

outlet and cap both it and the line...then go play again.

People told me I was nuts with that diagnosis on Walters bird...

but

Walter

didn't !

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@hughes.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 3:08 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?

rpm

there

adjusting

leaning

too.

out

that

only

not sure

if

around 10

I pull

back

couple

away. If I

go

consistent

either,

either

they

are

flight and

I get

about

K&N, I

can't

odd to

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Ken · Post by **Ken** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:12 pm

Mike

I am more familiar with car engines but since $9. won't buy a set of
Lyc. plugs, I'd at least buy two new ones and rotate them cylinder by
cylinder. Usually I'd expect a bad plug to act up most at full throttle
though and go away with that mag turned off. It doesnt' hurt to rule
out the easy stuff first though and I've been surprised more than once
by simply fixes.

Rain tends to lean an engine but the effect is small compared to pulling
back the mixture a little bit. Rain tends to increase ignition wiring
symptoms so the ignition might not be the problem. I'd still suspect a
mag but very unlikely since the symptoms are there with either one off.
So rain might be a red herring. The suggestion to pull the air cleaner
might be worth the effort though in case you really do have an intake
tuning issue.

After that I'd borrow a different prop to try. Even though your
symptoms are apparently minor, they would annoy me greatly until I had
it figured out. There is also the possibility that you have a resonance
in your exhaust system or alternator so keep an eye out for cracked
brackets, exhaust, and even the engine mount. Long distance diagnostics
are just guesses at best. True experts like possibly Sky Ranch
engineering might be worth consulting.

Ken

Mike Betti wrote:

Update on problem. I flew it tonight and noticed that the problem goes away
above 5000' msl. I can't say for sure about this but it makes sense so far.
I need to test another night to see if there is a pattern. So what does it
mean. The problem is from about 2400 to 2600. Full throttle ok and anything
less than that ok. Engine just gives a little jerk you feel in the pedals or
firewall that happens say every 3-5 seconds. In the beginning I noticed this
problem only after climbing out and leveling off or when doing a low pass,
climbing out, and then leveling off. I may of noticed it more pronounced on
a heavy, rainy kind of day also.
Mike Betti
771E

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michael betti · Post by **michael betti** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:12 pm

As always, I appreciate all advice,
I can't say for sure about turning mags off one at a time with my
problem. The engine runs ragged enough on 1 mag that I think it drowns
out the problem. I did a good 30 hour inspection on the engine mounts,
brackets, etc. All looking good so far. I may try a set of plugs before
this is over. It sure seems like a plug to me more than anything.
Thanks,
Mike Betti

----Original Message----
From: klehman@albedo.net
Date: 06/20/2007 9:06
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subj: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?

Mike

I am more familiar with car engines but since $9. won't buy a set of
Lyc. plugs, I'd at least buy two new ones and rotate them cylinder by
cylinder. Usually I'd expect a bad plug to act up most at full
throttle
though and go away with that mag turned off. It doesnt' hurt to rule
out the easy stuff first though and I've been surprised more than
once
by simply fixes.

Rain tends to lean an engine but the effect is small compared to
pulling
back the mixture a little bit. Rain tends to increase ignition
wiring
symptoms so the ignition might not be the problem. I'd still suspect
a
mag but very unlikely since the symptoms are there with either one
off.
So rain might be a red herring. The suggestion to pull the air
cleaner
might be worth the effort though in case you really do have an intake
tuning issue.

After that I'd borrow a different prop to try. Even though your
symptoms are apparently minor, they would annoy me greatly until I
had
it figured out. There is also the possibility that you have a
resonance
in your exhaust system or alternator so keep an eye out for cracked
brackets, exhaust, and even the engine mount. Long distance
diagnostics
are just guesses at best. True experts like possibly Sky Ranch
engineering might be worth consulting.

Ken

Mike Betti wrote:

Update on problem. I flew it tonight and noticed that the problem

goes away

above 5000' msl. I can't say for sure about this but it makes sense

so far.

I need to test another night to see if there is a pattern. So what

does it

mean. The problem is from about 2400 to 2600. Full throttle ok and

anything

less than that ok. Engine just gives a little jerk you feel in the

pedals or

firewall that happens say every 3-5 seconds. In the beginning I

noticed this

problem only after climbing out and leveling off or when doing a low

pass,

climbing out, and then leveling off. I may of noticed it more

pronounced on

a heavy, rainy kind of day also.
Mike Betti
771E

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steve whitenect · Post by **steve whitenect** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:12 pm

Mike
Are you running two mags or electronic ingition?

Steve

From: michael betti <mbetti@hughes.net>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 13:07:12 +0000 (UTC)

That's the weird part. I try leaning when the engine is doing this and
nothing changes, other than it runs a little rougher because of being
lean. This problem I am having is pretty insignificant. You can cruise
all day long with it doing this and most people probably wouldn't
notice, but it is there. Just a slight jerk in the engine like the
ignition was interrupted for a split second.
Mike

----Original Message----
From: beep@sympatico.ca
Date: 06/19/2007 21:42
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subj: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?

Hi Mike !

Hmmmm ... You have the opposite of the problem I had ! Mine
started
missing above 8,000 ft ...

If it goes away with altitude, your mixture might be just a bit
rich -
have you tried leaning a bit when it's rough ?? Lean until you get
an rpm drop, then push in just enough to get back to peak, plus
enough so it just starts to drop again....

Being a bit rich would explain why Rick's suggestion of carb
heat wouldn't help ... it might make it worse....

--
......bobp
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Tuesday 19 June 2007 21:47, Mike Betti wrote:
Update on problem. I flew it tonight and noticed that the problem
goes away
above 5000' msl. I can't say for sure about this but it makes sense
so far.
I need to test another night to see if there is a pattern. So what
does it
mean. The problem is from about 2400 to 2600. Full throttle ok and
anything
less than that ok. Engine just gives a little jerk you feel in the
pedals
or firewall that happens say every 3-5 seconds. In the beginning I
noticed
this problem only after climbing out and leveling off or when doing
a low
pass, climbing out, and then leveling off. I may of noticed it more
pronounced on a heavy, rainy kind of day also.
Mike Betti
771E

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Harper" <rjwh@optusnet.com.au>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 4:38 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?

G'day from OZ, Mike !

Not sure if this is going to help - but it's easy to test for
anyway
....

We had "a weird miss" in our Rebel with the old sooped up 0-235
(making
around 140 HP at the time) ..... but it only did it at certain
throttle
settings

When you get this "miss" happening - just try pulling on carby
heat -
you'll obviously get a slight drop in RPM ..... but just see if it
stops
the miss ......
(this will only take a few seconds to test for - so give it a try)

We had a "SUPER POSA" - (early throttle body type carby) ..... we
found
that it formed little chunks of ice "sometimes / under certain
loads &
conditions" - which fell off & got ingested fairly regularly
.....
causing what we originally thought was an electrical miss every
now &
then

Just another item to cross off your checklist !

Rick "Biggus" Harper
541R

----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Betti
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 2:45 AM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?

I removed the primer today and capped off both lines, same
problem :(
The prop is cautioned for use at 2150-2350. 2400 and 2500 is my
problem
area. My smoothest operation has been in the cautioned area. I
can
cruise at
2400 but I still get that little hickup every once in the while.
It's
not enough to shake the plane but I can detect it with through my
feet
more than
anything, you have to pay attention to notice it. Feels
electrical like
one
plug missing a beat once in the while, but it does it on both
mags. Not
sure
if I want to pull the carb or try another set of plugs.
Mike Betti

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 2:17 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?

flared
and

the
primer

but
Walter

rpm
there
adjusting

leaning
too.

out
that
only

not sure
if

around 10
I pull
back

couple
away. If I
go

consistent
either,

either
they
are

flight and
I get
about

K&N, I
can't

odd to

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Mike Betti · Post by **Mike Betti** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:12 pm

2 Slick mags

----- Original Message -----
From: "steve whitenect" <srwhitenect@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 1:41 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?

Mike
Are you running two mags or electronic ingition?

Steve

From: michael betti <mbetti@hughes.net>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 13:07:12 +0000 (UTC)

That's the weird part. I try leaning when the engine is doing this and
nothing changes, other than it runs a little rougher because of being
lean. This problem I am having is pretty insignificant. You can cruise
all day long with it doing this and most people probably wouldn't
notice, but it is there. Just a slight jerk in the engine like the
ignition was interrupted for a split second.
Mike

----Original Message----
From: beep@sympatico.ca
Date: 06/19/2007 21:42
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subj: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?

Hi Mike !

Hmmmm ... You have the opposite of the problem I had ! Mine
started
missing above 8,000 ft ...

If it goes away with altitude, your mixture might be just a bit
rich -
have you tried leaning a bit when it's rough ?? Lean until you get
an rpm drop, then push in just enough to get back to peak, plus
enough so it just starts to drop again....

Being a bit rich would explain why Rick's suggestion of carb
heat wouldn't help ... it might make it worse....

--
......bobp
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Tuesday 19 June 2007 21:47, Mike Betti wrote:
Update on problem. I flew it tonight and noticed that the problem
goes away
above 5000' msl. I can't say for sure about this but it makes sense
so far.
I need to test another night to see if there is a pattern. So what
does it
mean. The problem is from about 2400 to 2600. Full throttle ok and
anything
less than that ok. Engine just gives a little jerk you feel in the
pedals
or firewall that happens say every 3-5 seconds. In the beginning I
noticed
this problem only after climbing out and leveling off or when doing
a low
pass, climbing out, and then leveling off. I may of noticed it more
pronounced on a heavy, rainy kind of day also.
Mike Betti
771E

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Harper" <rjwh@optusnet.com.au>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 4:38 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?

anyway
(making
throttle
heat -
stops
found
loads &
.....
now &
problem :(
problem
can
It's
feet
electrical like
mags. Not
flared
the
but
rpm
there
leaning
out
that
not sure
around 10
I pull
couple
away. If I
consistent
either
they
flight and
I get
K&N, I
odd to

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steve whitenect · Post by **steve whitenect** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:12 pm

Mike
What is your manifold pressure with that 56" prop?

Steve

From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@hughes.net>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 18:11:08 -0500

2 Slick mags

----- Original Message -----
From: "steve whitenect" <srwhitenect@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 1:41 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?

Mike
Are you running two mags or electronic ingition?

Steve

From: michael betti <mbetti@hughes.net>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 13:07:12 +0000 (UTC)

That's the weird part. I try leaning when the engine is doing this and
nothing changes, other than it runs a little rougher because of being
lean. This problem I am having is pretty insignificant. You can cruise
all day long with it doing this and most people probably wouldn't
notice, but it is there. Just a slight jerk in the engine like the
ignition was interrupted for a split second.
Mike

----Original Message----
From: beep@sympatico.ca
Date: 06/19/2007 21:42
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subj: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?

Hi Mike !

Hmmmm ... You have the opposite of the problem I had ! Mine
started
missing above 8,000 ft ...

If it goes away with altitude, your mixture might be just a bit
rich -
have you tried leaning a bit when it's rough ?? Lean until you get
an rpm drop, then push in just enough to get back to peak, plus
enough so it just starts to drop again....

Being a bit rich would explain why Rick's suggestion of carb
heat wouldn't help ... it might make it worse....

--
......bobp
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Tuesday 19 June 2007 21:47, Mike Betti wrote: goes away so far. does it anything pedals noticed a low anyway (making throttle heat - stops found loads & ..... now & problem :( problem can It's feet electrical like mags. Not flared the but rpm there leaning out that not sure around 10 I pull couple away. If I consistent either they flight and I get K&N, I odd to

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Mike Betti · Post by **Mike Betti** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:12 pm

58" fixed pitch prop and I don't monitor manifold pressure. Isn't it just
vacuum on a natural aspirated engine?
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "steve whitenect" <srwhitenect@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 6:42 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?

Mike
What is your manifold pressure with that 56" prop?

Steve

From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@hughes.net>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 18:11:08 -0500

2 Slick mags

----- Original Message -----
From: "steve whitenect" <srwhitenect@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 1:41 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?

Mike
Are you running two mags or electronic ingition?

Steve

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steve whitenect · Post by **steve whitenect** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:12 pm

I don't know what the engine would behave like running continuously over
"square" if there was too much pitch. What is your static rpm and rpm when
on the roll. I'm running a 45" pitch with a 150 hp and need a bit more
pitch- mabe 47". I know that 56-58 inch would give me way too high numbers
on the manifold pressure which will eventually lead to overheating etc.

Steve

From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@hughes.net>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 18:56:51 -0500

58" fixed pitch prop and I don't monitor manifold pressure. Isn't it just
vacuum on a natural aspirated engine?
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "steve whitenect" <srwhitenect@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 6:42 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?

Mike
What is your manifold pressure with that 56" prop?

Steve

From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@hughes.net>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 18:11:08 -0500

2 Slick mags

----- Original Message -----
From: "steve whitenect" <srwhitenect@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 1:41 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?

and
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altitude

every

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position.

it

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Bob Patterson · Post by **Bob Patterson** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:12 pm

Hi Mike !

Steve's on the right track ! The Elite we flew back from
BC to Ottawa had an O-360 and a 76 x 58" prop - just like
yours .... It definitely was not smooth below 2,500 rpm.
ALL O-360's I have flown like to run fast - they are happiest
at 2,550 - 2,650 rpm for cruise. It's the design of the engine.

I would NOT run at 2,400 with an O-360 - especially
if there is a noticeable vibration. Just a matter of time
until something breaks !

Steve is on the right track - manifold pressure increases
with pitch --- it's like driving your car up a steep hill in
high gear ! The engine is working hard, and the load
most likely is causing the shake .... and it's in the known
harmonic rpm range for O-360's ...

Try climbing to a decent altitude, set up for cruise
at 2,400+, then push to get a steady 200 - 300+ fpm descent.
this will unload the prop, and the rpm should increase,
maybe past 2,500 ---- and the shake might be gone ! If it is,
then you know for sure it's best to cruise at 2,500++.
Unloading the prop should lower manifold pressure
a bit ....

--
......bobp
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Wednesday 20 June 2007 19:56, Mike Betti wrote:

58" fixed pitch prop and I don't monitor manifold pressure. Isn't it just
vacuum on a natural aspirated engine?
Mike

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