[rebel-builders] Taxi test

Charlie Starr · Post by **Charlie Starr** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:42 am

Mike,

Most new brakes need a "wear-in" period to become effective, and are not
real effective at first. I taxied with brakes partially applied for first
few (slow) taxi tests on my SR. I also had back-filled the reservoir
(single reservoir for both brakes) and lines; no soft pedal and excellent
brakes. Taxi and ground steering is very easy and smooth with rudder alone,
and tail wheel kicks out with only slight brake application. My tail wheel
chains have practically no slack, with steering loads dampened by springs.
Don't know how much difference there might be between Elite brakes and SR
brakes, however.

Charlie Starr - SR N96CS
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@hughes.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 3:24 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Taxi test

Hi all,
Still waiting for my DAR to do inspection of N771ME Elite. He is coming
next saturday now. FAA dragged their feet with my paper work last couple
weeks, but all is a go now. Today only -10F but warmed up to 15F. I took
out my airplane to do some run ups and taxi testing for the first time to
get the feel of it. Good temps in this weather, 140 max oil with plugged
off cooler, and 300 max CHT no matter what I did on the ground.
Raised the tail at about 30mph down the runway, the airplane is a little
squirrelly but manageable, that is until I ground loop it. There was a 6
knot cross wind, which I really dodn't need at this stage of the game, but
ok.
I uploaded a picture in the files section, Elite, finished.....
Everything is checking out good except for the brakes. They are very poor
for some reason. The pedals are solid with not much movement of the
masters when applying them, so I don't think air is an issue. I did
pressure fill them from the bottom up through the bleeder. I tried
dragging them around the ramp, they got warm, but not much improvement.
During a run up I have a hard time holding the brakes over 1400 rpm. I did
manage a static full throttle, with 76X58 Sensenich prop, I got 2300. I
also don't have enough brake to kick out the tailwheel. I also run the
8.50 tires if that is any handicap.
Any thought?
Mike Betti

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Robert Johnson · Post by **Robert Johnson** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:42 am

Nice looking Elite Mike - As they say down under "she's a beauty mate" and
that's fair dinkam. I had no problem with the new brakes on a Rebel and I
dragged them for a bit to seat them as recommended by Bob P. In fact I had
to watch the run up or I could put it on her nose - sometimes they held to
good. Best regards Bob J - Looking forward to that stage again.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@hughes.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 4:24 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Taxi test

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Wayne G. O'Shea · Post by **Wayne G. O'Shea** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:42 am

Sorry to hear of your "GL" Mike. Both Bob P. and myself try to tell everyone
DO NOT do high speed taxi tests in an airplane that will fly at 30 or less
in ground effect. Slow speed to get a feel and go flying. nothing in
between.

New brakes need to be taxied at about 1500 RPM dragging the brakes to keep
the speed slow.... for a few thousand feet. Let cool and do it again 'till
they hold well.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@hughes.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 4:24 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Taxi test

Hi all,
Still waiting for my DAR to do inspection of N771ME Elite. He is coming
next saturday now. FAA dragged their feet with my paper work last couple
weeks, but all is a go now. Today only -10F but warmed up to 15F. I took
out my airplane to do some run ups and taxi testing for the first time to
get the feel of it. Good temps in this weather, 140 max oil with plugged
off cooler, and 300 max CHT no matter what I did on the ground.
Raised the tail at about 30mph down the runway, the airplane is a little
squirrelly but manageable, that is until I ground loop it. There was a 6
knot cross wind, which I really dodn't need at this stage of the game, but
ok.
I uploaded a picture in the files section, Elite, finished.....
Everything is checking out good except for the brakes. They are very poor
for some reason. The pedals are solid with not much movement of the
masters when applying them, so I don't think air is an issue. I did
pressure fill them from the bottom up through the bleeder. I tried
dragging them around the ramp, they got warm, but not much improvement.
During a run up I have a hard time holding the brakes over 1400 rpm. I did
manage a static full throttle, with 76X58 Sensenich prop, I got 2300. I
also don't have enough brake to kick out the tailwheel. I also run the
8.50 tires if that is any handicap.
Any thought?
Mike Betti

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Rich Dodson · Post by **Rich Dodson** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:42 am

Mike,

First off, congrats!

Second, on the brakes issue, Charlie is right. Most brakes that are new, or used very seldom, hold poorly. Think of a new bike's brakes (at least that is how I remember it). There is a Cleveland bulletin, which probably applies across the board, which describes how to "break in" the brakes. Essentially it involves taxi-ing slowly with brakes applied for several minutes, followed by a cool down, then repeat.

You can probably find the bulletin on the Internet.

Best Wishes,
Rich

----- Original Message ----
From: Mike Betti <mbetti@hughes.net>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 4:24:48 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Taxi test

Hi all,
Still waiting for my DAR to do inspection of N771ME Elite. He is coming next saturday now. FAA dragged their feet with my paper work last couple weeks, but all is a go now. Today only -10F but warmed up to 15F. I took out my airplane to do some run ups and taxi testing for the first time to get the feel of it. Good temps in this weather, 140 max oil with plugged off cooler, and 300 max CHT no matter what I did on the ground.
Raised the tail at about 30mph down the runway, the airplane is a little squirrelly but manageable, that is until I ground loop it. There was a 6 knot cross wind, which I really dodn't need at this stage of the game, but ok.
I uploaded a picture in the files section, Elite, finished.....
Everything is checking out good except for the brakes. They are very poor for some reason. The pedals are solid with not much movement of the masters when applying them, so I don't think air is an issue. I did pressure fill them from the bottom up through the bleeder. I tried dragging them around the ramp, they got warm, but not much improvement. During a run up I have a hard time holding the brakes over 1400 rpm. I did manage a static full throttle, with 76X58 Sensenich prop, I got 2300. I also don't have enough brake to kick out the tailwheel. I also run the 8.50 tires if that is any handicap.
Any thought?
Mike Betti

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Mike Betti · Post by **Mike Betti** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:42 am

No GL here yet Wayne. But it is easy for me to say that I can handle the
airplane on the ground that is until the day I GL it, then I won't be saying
much.:(
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 4:40 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Taxi test

Sorry to hear of your "GL" Mike. Both Bob P. and myself try to tell
everyone
DO NOT do high speed taxi tests in an airplane that will fly at 30 or less
in ground effect. Slow speed to get a feel and go flying. nothing in
between.

New brakes need to be taxied at about 1500 RPM dragging the brakes to keep
the speed slow.... for a few thousand feet. Let cool and do it again 'till
they hold well.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@hughes.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 4:24 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Taxi test

Hi all,
Still waiting for my DAR to do inspection of N771ME Elite. He is coming
next saturday now. FAA dragged their feet with my paper work last couple
weeks, but all is a go now. Today only -10F but warmed up to 15F. I took
out my airplane to do some run ups and taxi testing for the first time to
get the feel of it. Good temps in this weather, 140 max oil with plugged
off cooler, and 300 max CHT no matter what I did on the ground.
Raised the tail at about 30mph down the runway, the airplane is a little
squirrelly but manageable, that is until I ground loop it. There was a 6
knot cross wind, which I really dodn't need at this stage of the game,
but
ok.
I uploaded a picture in the files section, Elite, finished.....
Everything is checking out good except for the brakes. They are very poor
for some reason. The pedals are solid with not much movement of the
masters when applying them, so I don't think air is an issue. I did
pressure fill them from the bottom up through the bleeder. I tried
dragging them around the ramp, they got warm, but not much improvement.
During a run up I have a hard time holding the brakes over 1400 rpm. I
did
manage a static full throttle, with 76X58 Sensenich prop, I got 2300. I
also don't have enough brake to kick out the tailwheel. I also run the
8.50 tires if that is any handicap.
Any thought?
Mike Betti

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Wayne G. O'Shea · Post by **Wayne G. O'Shea** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:42 am

Guess I added a 'ed to loop while I read it. The sentence structure works
perfect for that! LOL

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@hughes.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 9:07 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Taxi test

No GL here yet Wayne. But it is easy for me to say that I can handle the
airplane on the ground that is until the day I GL it, then I won't be
saying
much.:(
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 4:40 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Taxi test

Sorry to hear of your "GL" Mike. Both Bob P. and myself try to tell
everyone
DO NOT do high speed taxi tests in an airplane that will fly at 30 or
less
in ground effect. Slow speed to get a feel and go flying. nothing in
between.

New brakes need to be taxied at about 1500 RPM dragging the brakes to
keep
the speed slow.... for a few thousand feet. Let cool and do it again
'till
they hold well.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@hughes.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 4:24 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Taxi test

Hi all,
Still waiting for my DAR to do inspection of N771ME Elite. He is coming
next saturday now. FAA dragged their feet with my paper work last couple
weeks, but all is a go now. Today only -10F but warmed up to 15F. I took
out my airplane to do some run ups and taxi testing for the first time
to
get the feel of it. Good temps in this weather, 140 max oil with plugged
off cooler, and 300 max CHT no matter what I did on the ground.
Raised the tail at about 30mph down the runway, the airplane is a little
squirrelly but manageable, that is until I ground loop it. There was a 6
knot cross wind, which I really dodn't need at this stage of the game,
but
ok.
I uploaded a picture in the files section, Elite, finished.....
Everything is checking out good except for the brakes. They are very
poor
for some reason. The pedals are solid with not much movement of the
masters when applying them, so I don't think air is an issue. I did
pressure fill them from the bottom up through the bleeder. I tried
dragging them around the ramp, they got warm, but not much improvement.
During a run up I have a hard time holding the brakes over 1400 rpm. I
did
manage a static full throttle, with 76X58 Sensenich prop, I got 2300. I
also don't have enough brake to kick out the tailwheel. I also run the
8.50 tires if that is any handicap.
Any thought?
Mike Betti

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Mike Betti · Post by **Mike Betti** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:42 am

Wayne or Bob,
I know it's been mentioned before about this high speed taxi stuff from you
guys. An older pilot I fly with a lot and also I have learned much from,
wants me to get comfortable with doing this kind of taxi, but me on the
other hand want to get this engine in the air under full throttle before I
glaze it up.
What is it that you don't like about doing this kind of manuver? Maybe I can
change my buddys reasoning on this.
I know I have read books on taildragging and the author mentions don't taxi
on the mains for practice. But I do it anyway in a C140 from time to time.
Its good practice but can get you in trouble pretty fast.
Mike Betti

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 8:36 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Taxi test

Guess I added a 'ed to loop while I read it. The sentence structure works
perfect for that! LOL

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@hughes.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 9:07 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Taxi test

No GL here yet Wayne. But it is easy for me to say that I can handle the
airplane on the ground that is until the day I GL it, then I won't be
saying
much.:(
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 4:40 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Taxi test

Sorry to hear of your "GL" Mike. Both Bob P. and myself try to tell
everyone
DO NOT do high speed taxi tests in an airplane that will fly at 30 or
less
in ground effect. Slow speed to get a feel and go flying. nothing in
between.

New brakes need to be taxied at about 1500 RPM dragging the brakes to
keep
the speed slow.... for a few thousand feet. Let cool and do it again
'till
they hold well.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@hughes.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 4:24 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Taxi test

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Ken · Post by **Ken** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:42 am

Exactly trouble comes quickly.
Closing the throttle and putting the tail down is way more squirrelly
than just landing with the throttle closed or almost closed. The
throttle closing adds yaw components (removing P factor) that you are
not used to and it happens at lower airspeed than on a landing with less
rudder control/
Ken

Mike Betti wrote:

Wayne or Bob,
I know it's been mentioned before about this high speed taxi stuff from you
guys. An older pilot I fly with a lot and also I have learned much from,
wants me to get comfortable with doing this kind of taxi, but me on the
other hand want to get this engine in the air under full throttle before I
glaze it up.
What is it that you don't like about doing this kind of manuver? Maybe I can
change my buddys reasoning on this.
I know I have read books on taildragging and the author mentions don't taxi
on the mains for practice. But I do it anyway in a C140 from time to time.
Its good practice but can get you in trouble pretty fast.

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Mike Kimball · Post by **Mike Kimball** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:42 am

I'll add my two cents worth on high speed taxi. I did it twice in my Super
Rebel before first flight. After having done three takeoffs and landings in
the Super Rebel now I can easily attest to the fact that I was in the most
danger of bending my airplane during the high speed taxi tests. Getting the
tail up and not flying was hard. Constantly balancing just enough power to
get the tail up with speed increasing, yet not taking flight. And the
runway wasn't all that long. About the time I got the tail up dancing on
all the controls trying to stay in control it was time to get the tail back
down and apply brakes before I ran out of runway. I was probably in the
most danger of groundlooping right after I finished accellerating and
reached my maximum speed, without taking flight, then powered off and
lowered the tail. It would be a much worse ground loop than a low speed
ground loop during the decellerating ground roll after landing. I agree
with Ken about the forces changing rapidly. Left turning tendencies are
there and increased by raising the tail, then you remove power and lower the
tail reducing and reversing those tendencies. You don't encounter those
rapid changes during a normal takeoff or landing. I would not recommend
high speed taxiing. Much safer to go fly and get the feel of the airplane,
then bring it in for your first landing on a nice long stabilized final
approach for a three pointer.

Mike
044SR

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Mike
Betti
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 6:17 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Taxi test

Wayne or Bob,
I know it's been mentioned before about this high speed taxi stuff from you
guys. An older pilot I fly with a lot and also I have learned much from,
wants me to get comfortable with doing this kind of taxi, but me on the
other hand want to get this engine in the air under full throttle before I
glaze it up.
What is it that you don't like about doing this kind of manuver? Maybe I can

change my buddys reasoning on this.
I know I have read books on taildragging and the author mentions don't taxi
on the mains for practice. But I do it anyway in a C140 from time to time.
Its good practice but can get you in trouble pretty fast.
Mike Betti

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 8:36 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Taxi test

Guess I added a 'ed to loop while I read it. The sentence structure works
perfect for that! LOL

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@hughes.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 9:07 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Taxi test

No GL here yet Wayne. But it is easy for me to say that I can handle the
airplane on the ground that is until the day I GL it, then I won't be
saying
much.:(
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 4:40 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Taxi test

Sorry to hear of your "GL" Mike. Both Bob P. and myself try to tell
everyone
DO NOT do high speed taxi tests in an airplane that will fly at 30 or
less
in ground effect. Slow speed to get a feel and go flying. nothing in
between.

New brakes need to be taxied at about 1500 RPM dragging the brakes to
keep
the speed slow.... for a few thousand feet. Let cool and do it again
'till
they hold well.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@hughes.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 4:24 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Taxi test

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Mike Betti · Post by **Mike Betti** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:42 am

Thanks to all for the replies. I will try dragging them.............
Mike Betti

----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie Starr" <cws1932@cox.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 3:50 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Taxi test

Mike,

Most new brakes need a "wear-in" period to become effective, and are not
real effective at first. I taxied with brakes partially applied for first
few (slow) taxi tests on my SR. I also had back-filled the reservoir
(single reservoir for both brakes) and lines; no soft pedal and excellent
brakes. Taxi and ground steering is very easy and smooth with rudder
alone,
and tail wheel kicks out with only slight brake application. My tail
wheel
chains have practically no slack, with steering loads dampened by springs.
Don't know how much difference there might be between Elite brakes and SR
brakes, however.

Charlie Starr - SR N96CS
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@hughes.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 3:24 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Taxi test

Hi all,
Still waiting for my DAR to do inspection of N771ME Elite. He is coming
next saturday now. FAA dragged their feet with my paper work last couple
weeks, but all is a go now. Today only -10F but warmed up to 15F. I took
out my airplane to do some run ups and taxi testing for the first time to
get the feel of it. Good temps in this weather, 140 max oil with plugged
off cooler, and 300 max CHT no matter what I did on the ground.
Raised the tail at about 30mph down the runway, the airplane is a little
squirrelly but manageable, that is until I ground loop it. There was a 6
knot cross wind, which I really dodn't need at this stage of the game,
but
ok.
I uploaded a picture in the files section, Elite, finished.....
Everything is checking out good except for the brakes. They are very poor
for some reason. The pedals are solid with not much movement of the
masters when applying them, so I don't think air is an issue. I did
pressure fill them from the bottom up through the bleeder. I tried
dragging them around the ramp, they got warm, but not much improvement.
During a run up I have a hard time holding the brakes over 1400 rpm. I
did
manage a static full throttle, with 76X58 Sensenich prop, I got 2300. I
also don't have enough brake to kick out the tailwheel. I also run the
8.50 tires if that is any handicap.
Any thought?
Mike Betti

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Mike Betti · Post by **Mike Betti** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:42 am

Thanks for the description, I think you hit on the head. Next weekend after
the inspection, I am going to drag the brakes down the runway, go back for a
cool down, then blast off! I'm thinking one trip around the patch, land,
check over. Then take off for a 30 minute flight around the patch at 75%
power.
Mike Betti

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Kimball" <mkimball@gci.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 5:23 PM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Taxi test

I'll add my two cents worth on high speed taxi. I did it twice in my
Super
Rebel before first flight. After having done three takeoffs and landings
in
the Super Rebel now I can easily attest to the fact that I was in the most
danger of bending my airplane during the high speed taxi tests. Getting
the
tail up and not flying was hard. Constantly balancing just enough power
to
get the tail up with speed increasing, yet not taking flight. And the
runway wasn't all that long. About the time I got the tail up dancing on
all the controls trying to stay in control it was time to get the tail
back
down and apply brakes before I ran out of runway. I was probably in the
most danger of groundlooping right after I finished accellerating and
reached my maximum speed, without taking flight, then powered off and
lowered the tail. It would be a much worse ground loop than a low speed
ground loop during the decellerating ground roll after landing. I agree
with Ken about the forces changing rapidly. Left turning tendencies are
there and increased by raising the tail, then you remove power and lower
the
tail reducing and reversing those tendencies. You don't encounter those
rapid changes during a normal takeoff or landing. I would not recommend
high speed taxiing. Much safer to go fly and get the feel of the
airplane,
then bring it in for your first landing on a nice long stabilized final
approach for a three pointer.

Mike
044SR

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Mike
Betti
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 6:17 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Taxi test

Wayne or Bob,
I know it's been mentioned before about this high speed taxi stuff from
you
guys. An older pilot I fly with a lot and also I have learned much from,
wants me to get comfortable with doing this kind of taxi, but me on the
other hand want to get this engine in the air under full throttle before I
glaze it up.
What is it that you don't like about doing this kind of manuver? Maybe I
can

change my buddys reasoning on this.
I know I have read books on taildragging and the author mentions don't
taxi
on the mains for practice. But I do it anyway in a C140 from time to time.
Its good practice but can get you in trouble pretty fast.
Mike Betti

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 8:36 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Taxi test

Guess I added a 'ed to loop while I read it. The sentence structure works
perfect for that! LOL

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@hughes.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 9:07 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Taxi test

No GL here yet Wayne. But it is easy for me to say that I can handle the
airplane on the ground that is until the day I GL it, then I won't be
saying
much.:(
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 4:40 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Taxi test

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Mike Kimball · Post by **Mike Kimball** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:42 am

Sounds like a plan.

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Mike
Betti
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 3:08 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Taxi test

Thanks for the description, I think you hit on the head. Next weekend after
the inspection, I am going to drag the brakes down the runway, go back for a

cool down, then blast off! I'm thinking one trip around the patch, land,
check over. Then take off for a 30 minute flight around the patch at 75%
power.
Mike Betti

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Kimball" <mkimball@gci.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 5:23 PM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Taxi test

I'll add my two cents worth on high speed taxi. I did it twice in my
Super
Rebel before first flight. After having done three takeoffs and landings
in
the Super Rebel now I can easily attest to the fact that I was in the most
danger of bending my airplane during the high speed taxi tests. Getting
the
tail up and not flying was hard. Constantly balancing just enough power
to
get the tail up with speed increasing, yet not taking flight. And the
runway wasn't all that long. About the time I got the tail up dancing on
all the controls trying to stay in control it was time to get the tail
back
down and apply brakes before I ran out of runway. I was probably in the
most danger of groundlooping right after I finished accellerating and
reached my maximum speed, without taking flight, then powered off and
lowered the tail. It would be a much worse ground loop than a low speed
ground loop during the decellerating ground roll after landing. I agree
with Ken about the forces changing rapidly. Left turning tendencies are
there and increased by raising the tail, then you remove power and lower
the
tail reducing and reversing those tendencies. You don't encounter those
rapid changes during a normal takeoff or landing. I would not recommend
high speed taxiing. Much safer to go fly and get the feel of the
airplane,
then bring it in for your first landing on a nice long stabilized final
approach for a three pointer.

Mike
044SR

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Mike
Betti
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 6:17 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Taxi test

Wayne or Bob,
I know it's been mentioned before about this high speed taxi stuff from
you
guys. An older pilot I fly with a lot and also I have learned much from,
wants me to get comfortable with doing this kind of taxi, but me on the
other hand want to get this engine in the air under full throttle before I
glaze it up.
What is it that you don't like about doing this kind of manuver? Maybe I
can

change my buddys reasoning on this.
I know I have read books on taildragging and the author mentions don't
taxi
on the mains for practice. But I do it anyway in a C140 from time to time.
Its good practice but can get you in trouble pretty fast.
Mike Betti

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 8:36 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Taxi test

Guess I added a 'ed to loop while I read it. The sentence structure works
perfect for that! LOL

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@hughes.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 9:07 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Taxi test

No GL here yet Wayne. But it is easy for me to say that I can handle the
airplane on the ground that is until the day I GL it, then I won't be
saying
much.:(
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 4:40 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Taxi test

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Eddie Moran · Post by **Eddie Moran** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:42 am

Bottom line, filter what your hear both here on this forum and at your local airport.

Read the EAA information on testing the engine and aircraft.

I have tested both a new aircraft engine and a new airframe at the same time. I had to divide tasks and lived.

I would however, not advise taking off with a never flown engine and a never flown airframe on the same flight............................

Eddie

"Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca> wrote:
Guess I added a 'ed to loop while I read it. The sentence structure works
perfect for that! LOL

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti"
To:
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 9:07 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Taxi test

No GL here yet Wayne. But it is easy for me to say that I can handle the
airplane on the ground that is until the day I GL it, then I won't be
saying
much.:(
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea"
To:
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 4:40 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Taxi test

Sorry to hear of your "GL" Mike. Both Bob P. and myself try to tell
everyone
DO NOT do high speed taxi tests in an airplane that will fly at 30 or
less
in ground effect. Slow speed to get a feel and go flying. nothing in
between.

New brakes need to be taxied at about 1500 RPM dragging the brakes to
keep
the speed slow.... for a few thousand feet. Let cool and do it again
'till
they hold well.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti"
To:
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 4:24 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Taxi test

Hi all,
Still waiting for my DAR to do inspection of N771ME Elite. He is coming
next saturday now. FAA dragged their feet with my paper work last couple
weeks, but all is a go now. Today only -10F but warmed up to 15F. I took
out my airplane to do some run ups and taxi testing for the first time
to
get the feel of it. Good temps in this weather, 140 max oil with plugged
off cooler, and 300 max CHT no matter what I did on the ground.
Raised the tail at about 30mph down the runway, the airplane is a little
squirrelly but manageable, that is until I ground loop it. There was a 6
knot cross wind, which I really dodn't need at this stage of the game,
but
ok.
I uploaded a picture in the files section, Elite, finished.....
Everything is checking out good except for the brakes. They are very
poor
for some reason. The pedals are solid with not much movement of the
masters when applying them, so I don't think air is an issue. I did
pressure fill them from the bottom up through the bleeder. I tried
dragging them around the ramp, they got warm, but not much improvement.
During a run up I have a hard time holding the brakes over 1400 rpm. I
did
manage a static full throttle, with 76X58 Sensenich prop, I got 2300. I
also don't have enough brake to kick out the tailwheel. I also run the
8.50 tires if that is any handicap.
Any thought?
Mike Betti

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Wayne G. O'Shea · Post by **Wayne G. O'Shea** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:42 am

I'll trust a "never flown" engine, from either of my two overhaulers, over a
"as removed" that go into most homebuilts anyday!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Eddie Moran" <eddiemoranii@yahoo.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 8:40 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Taxi test

Bottom line, filter what your hear both here on this forum and at your
local airport.

Read the EAA information on testing the engine and aircraft.

I have tested both a new aircraft engine and a new airframe at the same
time. I had to divide tasks and lived.

I would however, not advise taking off with a never flown engine and a
never flown airframe on the same flight............................

Eddie

"Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca> wrote:
Guess I added a 'ed to loop while I read it. The sentence structure works
perfect for that! LOL

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti"
To:
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 9:07 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Taxi test

No GL here yet Wayne. But it is easy for me to say that I can handle the
airplane on the ground that is until the day I GL it, then I won't be
saying
much.:(
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea"
To:
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 4:40 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Taxi test

Sorry to hear of your "GL" Mike. Both Bob P. and myself try to tell
everyone
DO NOT do high speed taxi tests in an airplane that will fly at 30 or
less
in ground effect. Slow speed to get a feel and go flying. nothing in
between.

New brakes need to be taxied at about 1500 RPM dragging the brakes to
keep
the speed slow.... for a few thousand feet. Let cool and do it again
'till
they hold well.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti"
To:
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 4:24 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Taxi test

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Eddie Moran · Post by **Eddie Moran** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:42 am

Wayne, what is as removed engine?

Do you know what a "never flown" engine is?

How about an engine that has NEVER been flown. Or an engine that has NEVER been run under extreem pressures.

Let me know if you know what I am talking about. If you don't then that is ok too.

Let me know if you have ever ejected when an engine failed.

Eddie Moran

"Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca> wrote:
I'll trust a "never flown" engine, from either of my two overhaulers, over a
"as removed" that go into most homebuilts anyday!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Eddie Moran"
To:
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 8:40 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Taxi test

Bottom line, filter what your hear both here on this forum and at your
local airport.

Read the EAA information on testing the engine and aircraft.

I have tested both a new aircraft engine and a new airframe at the same
time. I had to divide tasks and lived.

I would however, not advise taking off with a never flown engine and a
never flown airframe on the same flight............................

Eddie

"Wayne G. O'Shea" wrote:
Guess I added a 'ed to loop while I read it. The sentence structure works
perfect for that! LOL

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti"
To:
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 9:07 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Taxi test

No GL here yet Wayne. But it is easy for me to say that I can handle the
airplane on the ground that is until the day I GL it, then I won't be
saying
much.:(
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea"
To:
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 4:40 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Taxi test

Sorry to hear of your "GL" Mike. Both Bob P. and myself try to tell
everyone
DO NOT do high speed taxi tests in an airplane that will fly at 30 or
less
in ground effect. Slow speed to get a feel and go flying. nothing in
between.

New brakes need to be taxied at about 1500 RPM dragging the brakes to
keep
the speed slow.... for a few thousand feet. Let cool and do it again
'till
they hold well.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti"
To:
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 4:24 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Taxi test

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