[rebel-builders]First test flights - Elite

Wayne G. O'Shea · Post by **Wayne G. O'Shea** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:38 am

I have no real time in the Elite....but split flapped Rebel I used them down
full at 20 degrees (based on the fact you only get half the drag compared to
full flaperons at 20 degrees).

For the first while if I was you I'd use about 1/2 flap. Remember everything
also depends on where the wind is from. On the nose full flaps are
fine...but any cross wind I never use more than 2/3rds..usually one notch if
it's gusty. I'll also clearly state.. I AM NOT A CFI !

Al Hepburn is probably the highest time Elite driver around here, although I
don't remember if any was on wheels. Same with Rob's Elite I have in the
hangar on Amphibs. He did very little time on wheels before he was glad to
park it till I did the float install.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@hughes.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] CG for Elite

Wayne, how about flaps? Should I just leave them alone for a while? I will
be using a 5,000' asphalt runway.
Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 5:17 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] CG for Elite

Mike you want BOTH tanks on at ALL times. The only time I'd ever use a
single tank is when trying to run it down for service or a fuel type
change
over...or to ease refueling at a seaplane dock to fill a single
tank..instead of getting to both sides.

For your maiden flights, I would be putting a well strapped down 50lb bag
of
......... (what ever you can get..plastic pellets/sand/concrete) in the
baggage area. Either that or a 5 gallon camping jug full of water with
the
straps thru the handle to hold it in place.

For landing...65MPH on final slowing to 60 over the fence until you get
used
to the sink rate of the wing below that speed. Fly to within a few feet
of
the ground and then hold it off with minimal power on and let it slowly
settle while bringing the stick back SLOWLY. If it ballons on you go FULL
power NOW...drop the nose so it flies again and go around. Do not try to
salvage the landing until you get really use to the airplane....I have
too
many repair pictures I could show...for those that have tried too salvage
a
balloon too early after first flights. The Rebel/Elite does not float
like
a
C172 does!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@hughes.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 5:55 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] CG for Elite

I now have my Elite assembled at the airport, just waiting on the
inspection. My tech counsler wears that hat too so I should have no
problem.
Recent weight and balance for my maiden flight, 3/4 tanks shows me at
1472# and CG at 13.42" aft. Limits are 7.7 to 19.7. With the recent talk
of this subject I thought I would throw it our there. Is this a good
spot
to be in with out adding ballast. Also, when it comes to flying it, is a
full flair to 3 point the most conservative landing.
I have 2 fuel shutoffs, do I want to use both in the on position for
most
situations, take-off, cruise?
Thanks,
Mike Betti
771E

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eric.r · Post by **eric.r** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:38 am

Wayne, CFI is just a bunch of letters, so don't sell yourself short. Experience
in type is the key, and experience in variations of type is golden. IMHO, all
tialdraggers fly differently and should be approached with an open mind and
recent experience in a few different aircraft ... and always pick a calm day
for testing. Three point landings (usually) mean the "flying part" is over, and a
wheel landing must become a three point sooner or later. "Flaps" are a landing
aid (and take-off aid on a float plane), and bring up a whole new set of
training parameters.
1. Taildragger control is an art and some never master that art.
2.CG affects taildraggers more in the ground handling modes, and aft is
usually preferred for learning.
3.Wheel landings should not be attempted without the watchfull eye of an
experienced pilot or CFI until you are proficient in: one wheel landings and
take-offs (for extreme x-wind), forward and aft cg loadings (at the designed
limits!), all done WITHOUT the use of any airspeed or altimeter as reference.
4. See #1 above.
5. Keep the touch light, the eyes outside, and the mind clear. Concentrating
on engine temps, recording climb and speed data, etc., on initial test flights is
a recipe for dings.
I do have the appropriate letters on my certificate, and I follow the above
rules religously. ... Now test flying a helicopter is a whole new pucker-factor!

On 1/31/2007 3:13 PM, oifa@irishfield.on.ca wrote to rebel-builders:

-> I have no real time in the Elite....but split flapped Rebel I used them down
-> full at 20 degrees (based on the fact you only get half the drag compared
to
-> full flaperons at 20 degrees).
->
-> For the first while if I was you I'd use about 1/2 flap. Remember
everything
-> also depends on where the wind is from. On the nose full flaps are
-> fine...but any cross wind I never use more than 2/3rds..usually one notch
if
-> it's gusty. I'll also clearly state.. I AM NOT A CFI !
->
-> Al Hepburn is probably the highest time Elite driver around here, although I
-> don't remember if any was on wheels. Same with Rob's Elite I have in the
-> hangar on Amphibs. He did very little time on wheels before he was glad to
-> park it till I did the float install.
->
-> Wayne
->
->
-> ----- Original Message -----
-> From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@hughes.net>
-> To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
-> Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 6:36 PM
-> Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] CG for Elite
->
->
-> > Wayne, how about flaps? Should I just leave them alone for a while? I
will
-> > be using a 5,000' asphalt runway.
-> > Mike
-> >
-> > ----- Original Message -----
-> > From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
-> > To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
-> > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 5:17 PM
-> > Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] CG for Elite
-> >
-> >
-> >> Mike you want BOTH tanks on at ALL times. The only time I'd ever use
a
-> >> single tank is when trying to run it down for service or a fuel type
-> >> change
-> >> over...or to ease refueling at a seaplane dock to fill a single
-> >> tank..instead of getting to both sides.
-> >>
-> >> For your maiden flights, I would be putting a well strapped down 50lb
bag
-> >> of
-> >> ......... (what ever you can get..plastic pellets/sand/concrete) in the
-> >> baggage area. Either that or a 5 gallon camping jug full of water with
-> >> the
-> >> straps thru the handle to hold it in place.
-> >>
-> >> For landing...65MPH on final slowing to 60 over the fence until you get
-> >> used
-> >> to the sink rate of the wing below that speed. Fly to within a few feet
-> >> of
-> >> the ground and then hold it off with minimal power on and let it slowly
-> >> settle while bringing the stick back SLOWLY. If it ballons on you go
FULL
-> >> power NOW...drop the nose so it flies again and go around. Do not try
to
-> >> salvage the landing until you get really use to the airplane....I have
-> >> too
-> >> many repair pictures I could show...for those that have tried too
salvage
-> >> a
-> >> balloon too early after first flights. The Rebel/Elite does not float
-> >> like
-> >> a
-> >> C172 does!
-> >>
-> >> Wayne
-> >>
-> >>
-> >>
-> >> ----- Original Message -----
-> >> From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@hughes.net>
-> >> To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
-> >> Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 5:55 PM
-> >> Subject: [rebel-builders] CG for Elite
-> >>
-> >>
-> >>>I now have my Elite assembled at the airport, just waiting on the
-> >>>inspection. My tech counsler wears that hat too so I should have no
-> >>>problem.
-> >>> Recent weight and balance for my maiden flight, 3/4 tanks shows me
at
-> >>> 1472# and CG at 13.42" aft. Limits are 7.7 to 19.7. With the recent
talk
-> >>> of this subject I thought I would throw it our there. Is this a good
-> >>> spot
-> >>> to be in with out adding ballast. Also, when it comes to flying it, is a
-> >>> full flair to 3 point the most conservative landing.
-> >>> I have 2 fuel shutoffs, do I want to use both in the on position for
-> >>> most
-> >>> situations, take-off, cruise?
-> >>> Thanks,
-> >>> Mike Betti
-> >>> 771E
-> >>>
-> >>>
-> >>>
-> >>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> >>> List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
-> >>> username "rebel" password "builder"
-> >>> Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
-> >>> List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> >>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> >>>
-> >>>
-> >>
-> >>
-> >>
-> >>
-> >> -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> >> List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
-> >> username "rebel" password "builder"
-> >> Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
-> >> List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> >> -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> >>
-> >>
-> >>
-> >>
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
-> > username "rebel" password "builder"
-> > Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
-> > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> >
-> >
->

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Mike Betti · Post by **Mike Betti** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:38 am

I was thinking the same thing Eric.............
Mike Betti

----- Original Message -----
From: <eric.r@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 9:22 AM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders]First test flights - Elite

Wayne, CFI is just a bunch of letters, so don't sell yourself short.
Experience
in type is the key, and experience in variations of type is golden. IMHO,
all
tialdraggers fly differently and should be approached with an open mind
and
recent experience in a few different aircraft ... and always pick a calm
day
for testing. Three point landings (usually) mean the "flying part" is
over, and a
wheel landing must become a three point sooner or later. "Flaps" are a
landing
aid (and take-off aid on a float plane), and bring up a whole new set of
training parameters.
1. Taildragger control is an art and some never master that art.
2.CG affects taildraggers more in the ground handling modes, and aft is
usually preferred for learning.
3.Wheel landings should not be attempted without the watchfull eye of an
experienced pilot or CFI until you are proficient in: one wheel landings
and
take-offs (for extreme x-wind), forward and aft cg loadings (at the
designed
limits!), all done WITHOUT the use of any airspeed or altimeter as
reference.
4. See #1 above.
5. Keep the touch light, the eyes outside, and the mind clear.
Concentrating
on engine temps, recording climb and speed data, etc., on initial test
flights is
a recipe for dings.
I do have the appropriate letters on my certificate, and I follow the
above
rules religously. ... Now test flying a helicopter is a whole new
pucker-factor!

On 1/31/2007 3:13 PM, oifa@irishfield.on.ca wrote to rebel-builders:

-> I have no real time in the Elite....but split flapped Rebel I used them
down
-> full at 20 degrees (based on the fact you only get half the drag
compared
to
-> full flaperons at 20 degrees).
->
-> For the first while if I was you I'd use about 1/2 flap. Remember
everything
-> also depends on where the wind is from. On the nose full flaps are
-> fine...but any cross wind I never use more than 2/3rds..usually one
notch
if
-> it's gusty. I'll also clearly state.. I AM NOT A CFI !
->
-> Al Hepburn is probably the highest time Elite driver around here,
although I
-> don't remember if any was on wheels. Same with Rob's Elite I have in
the
-> hangar on Amphibs. He did very little time on wheels before he was glad
to
-> park it till I did the float install.
->
-> Wayne
->
->
-> ----- Original Message -----
-> From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@hughes.net>
-> To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
-> Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 6:36 PM
-> Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] CG for Elite
->
->
-> > Wayne, how about flaps? Should I just leave them alone for a while? I
will
-> > be using a 5,000' asphalt runway.
-> > Mike
-> >
-> > ----- Original Message -----
-> > From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
-> > To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
-> > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 5:17 PM
-> > Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] CG for Elite
-> >
-> >
-> >> Mike you want BOTH tanks on at ALL times. The only time I'd ever use
a
-> >> single tank is when trying to run it down for service or a fuel type
-> >> change
-> >> over...or to ease refueling at a seaplane dock to fill a single
-> >> tank..instead of getting to both sides.
-> >>
-> >> For your maiden flights, I would be putting a well strapped down
50lb
bag
-> >> of
-> >> ......... (what ever you can get..plastic pellets/sand/concrete) in
the
-> >> baggage area. Either that or a 5 gallon camping jug full of water
with
-> >> the
-> >> straps thru the handle to hold it in place.
-> >>
-> >> For landing...65MPH on final slowing to 60 over the fence until you
get
-> >> used
-> >> to the sink rate of the wing below that speed. Fly to within a few
feet
-> >> of
-> >> the ground and then hold it off with minimal power on and let it
slowly
-> >> settle while bringing the stick back SLOWLY. If it ballons on you go
FULL
-> >> power NOW...drop the nose so it flies again and go around. Do not
try
to
-> >> salvage the landing until you get really use to the airplane....I
have
-> >> too
-> >> many repair pictures I could show...for those that have tried too
salvage
-> >> a
-> >> balloon too early after first flights. The Rebel/Elite does not
float
-> >> like
-> >> a
-> >> C172 does!
-> >>
-> >> Wayne
-> >>
-> >>
-> >>
-> >> ----- Original Message -----
-> >> From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@hughes.net>
-> >> To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
-> >> Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 5:55 PM
-> >> Subject: [rebel-builders] CG for Elite
-> >>
-> >>
-> >>>I now have my Elite assembled at the airport, just waiting on the
-> >>>inspection. My tech counsler wears that hat too so I should have no
-> >>>problem.
-> >>> Recent weight and balance for my maiden flight, 3/4 tanks shows me
at
-> >>> 1472# and CG at 13.42" aft. Limits are 7.7 to 19.7. With the recent
talk
-> >>> of this subject I thought I would throw it our there. Is this a
good
-> >>> spot
-> >>> to be in with out adding ballast. Also, when it comes to flying it,
is a
-> >>> full flair to 3 point the most conservative landing.
-> >>> I have 2 fuel shutoffs, do I want to use both in the on position
for
-> >>> most
-> >>> situations, take-off, cruise?
-> >>> Thanks,
-> >>> Mike Betti
-> >>> 771E
-> >>>
-> >>>
-> >>>
-> >>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> >>> List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
-> >>> username "rebel" password "builder"
-> >>> Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
-> >>> List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> >>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> >>>
-> >>>
-> >>
-> >>
-> >>
-> >>
-> >> -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> >> List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
-> >> username "rebel" password "builder"
-> >> Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
-> >> List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> >> -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> >>
-> >>
-> >>
-> >>
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
-> > username "rebel" password "builder"
-> > Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
-> > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> >
-> >
->

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