[rebel-builders] Rebel Questions: engine fit , W&B

[Rick Johnson]

Hey Bob, whatever happened to the moose with the LS-6?

Rick
sr277

From: Bob Patterson <beep@sympatico.ca>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Rebel Questions: engine fit , W&B
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 03:51:33 +0000

Hi Charlie !

I think you'll love flying the 912-S ! Like you, I had flown a lot
of
different engines over the years, and was quite sceptical of this
new, high-revving geared engine. I flew the Rebel, and was very
impressed with the safety of the airplane - I knew I would be safe,
no matter what happened ! Just point it into wind, put down full
flapperons, and I'll walk away for sure, even if I have to put it into the
trees (heck, impact would only be 25 mph tops ... ;-) )

Knowing that, I wasn't too worried about engine failure -
and, for the first while, it wasn't MY airplane, and it WAS
fully insured ..... so, we went flying !! We flew that 912 Rebel
to Florida, from Oshkosh to Toronto, across Canada, to Quebec,
and all over North America !! After about 160 hours, I began
to think maybe this engine might last .... Fifteen years and about
1,000 hours later, it's still ticking - and has only needed regular
oil changes and spark plugs. It did get new carb floats, and finally,
new exhaust pipes & mufflers ... This is absolutely THE lowest
maintenance engine i've ever flown behind !!

We flew on floats and wheels, winter and summer - it has been
up to 16,000 feet, on mogas and 100 LL ..... and at times, the
fuel burn was as low as 2 1/2 gph ... and it carries a heck of a load !
I have videos of the 912 Rebel taking off in 129 feet, and landing in
about 138 feet on wheels... pretty impressive ! And - Solo, light,
6 seconds off the water, on Murphy 1500 straight floats !

That was the 80 hp. 912 -- the extra ponies should make the 912-S
an even better performer, even with a slightly heavier stock 1,650
Rebel.

By 'new standard', I meant - that's the way most folks will build
the Rebel. I wouldn't be surprised if the factory offered a mount
like that, and a cowl. For now, there is a source, and 4 door metal
cowls are pretty well documented here. As always, we all benefit
from the sharing of experience that Mike makes possible with this
site !! Thanks again, Mike !!

Guess the only thing you have to watch, is not ever to register at
a gross weight over 1320 lb ...... you can't go down, ever, and be
LSA legal !

You're going to have FUN !!!! :-)

--
......bobp
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Sunday 28 January 2007 22:54, Charlie Eubanks wrote:

Bob Patterson

I live in Missouri so am not planning on putting my Rebel on floats but

I

will install the float fittings. As was previously suggested I will

only

have two fuel bays per side (30+ Gals.). The aircraft will be certified

as

Experimental Armature Built. I plan to build it light enough to fly it

under

the LSA Pilot Rules if necessary. Right now the Engine of choice is the

100

HP Rotax. I have never flown behind one so I will be very interested in
hearing how Jim's Rebel works out. By "new standard" Do you mean Murphy

will

make the extended engine mount available? What about the prop and the

engine

cowl or are we on I own there?

Charlie E. 802R

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <beep@sympatico.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 12:59 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Rebel Questions: engine fit , W&B

Hi Paul !

The floats shouldn't change the C of G tooooo much, maybe
1" one way or the other ... for several, it has moved back.

If the firewall is moved back, I think this definitely rules out
the possibility of using the 912, or any of the lighter engines.
I wouldn't be too wild about having to extend the engine
mount 6" or more forward - that's a big cantilever !!!

I guess "too far back" is relative .... it can still be within

limits,

but too far aft to allow much baggage. We flew the original 80 hp.
912 Rebel on Murphy 1500 straight floats with full fuel (small tanks)
& 2 pilots, with no problems, but you couldn't put more than
maybe 10 lb. of baggage in without going out the aft limit....

Even on wheels, we had to put heavier baggage - like the
tent for Oshkosh - up front, often vertically, between the seats,
or on the floor, to keep the weight forward.

If Jim's Rebel with the 912-S works out, with the 3" longer
engine mount, I'm pretty sure that will become the "new standard"
setup for 912 Rebels ! ;-) :-) By moving the engine forward
and using the heavier "S" intake & exhaust, plus a larger Odyssey
battery on the firewall, and the ELT mounted on the front sidewall,
the 912 Rebel should be more easily able to carry the full 1,650 lb.
with a normal distribution of baggage, while staying within limits.
The slightly longer cowl should look very sleek too. With that setup,
even with a very light pilot, solo, and low fuel, it should be a
looong way from the forward limit.

Of course, those who choose to register it as an LSA-compliant
Experimental in the USA will be legally limited to 1,320 lb gross.
And they will have the safety & security of knowing that it <could>
carry 1,650 ..... not that anyone would ever do that ! ;-)

:-)

If one is planning on using the 912, or similar engines, it is
a good idea to reduce the size of the fuel tanks to 2 bays per side,
still leaving over 30 gallons of fuel -- there's NO point in carrying
an extra 100 lb or so of fuel ! And larger, partially-filled tanks

can

invite condensation and sloshing fuel - potential flow problems !
Reducing the tanks will save you a pound or two of weight too.
There are other ways to extend the range with extra fuel if
necessary .... although 32 gallons should give about 6 hours range

!!!

(The 912 fuel pump is quite capable of pulling fuel from a
plastic gas can (or 2 !) in the baggage area ....) ;-)

--
......bobp
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Saturday 27 January 2007 05:49, C&P Kucera wrote:

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