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[rebel-builders] Rebel - Speed cowl exit air

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Bob Patterson

[rebel-builders] Rebel - Speed cowl exit air

Post by Bob Patterson » Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:34 am

Hi Gary !

I think you are on the right track - increase the outlet ! There are
also some folks who have had results from enlarging & smoothing
the inlets ....
My questions are:
1) Does anyone know where to get ready made "shark" gills? It
would make increasing the exhaust flow a lot easier without making a big
exhaust plenum hanging down underneath the cowling as I have seen in some
pictures.
I'm with Wayne - probably not too helpful with heat ....
2) Did Howard's configuration provide sufficient cooling for his flying?
3) Has anyone had any over temp problems with about 100 sq in of exhaust
area?
Yes ! My oil was up to 240+, and CHT's were way up too - with the
original cut out hole at the bottom ! I would definitely NOT recommend
that !!!! If you can make stand-offs to lower the whole bottom rear of
the cowling by at least a couple of inches, that will look & work better.
The key is to be sure that the rear of the cowling is AT LEAST an inch or 2
or more BEHIND the firewall - otherwise, the air flows UP & INTO the cowl,
greatly increasing temps ! Putting aluminum over the bottom firewall
lip to round it and smooth exit air flow will also help greatly ... just
fasten to belly & wrap up to 4 or 6" above the bottom of the firewall.
(Aluminum body repair tape will do, if it's too late for alum. sheet.)
4) Is it necessary to have an external carb heat dump pipe or am I
misreading the quote?
That would be the vertical tube that extends downward from the
carb air box on most engines .... (approx. 1 1/2" diameter)

--
......bobp
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Tuesday 16 January 2007 22:23, Gary Gustafson wrote:
I am currently working on my speed cowl and modifying it to increase
the amount of exhaust air. I have an O320 (160 HP) and it will be on wheels,
but would like to plan for eventual floats. In that regard, back in July
2002, Wayne O'Shea wrote the following in an email:

"Rule of thumb!? Cut 'till the temps are right! But yes I have read in many
places one and a half times the inlet. Didn't do any calcs when we did
Howard's. We just slit the MAM scoop down the sides and kept putting in
larger pieces of aluminum until the temps dropped to an acceptable limit. It
was then glassed in at this size and the aluminum removed."

"Howard's main outlet is 4 1/4 x 14 1/2 = ~62 sq inches and then there is
about 12 square inches around each exhaust pipe, plus he added the two 1
1/2" x 5" shark gills for another 15 sq inches for a total of ~ 101 square
inches. Don't have a speed cowling here to measure the inlet size, but I'll
guess at about 5" x 7" each side for a total of 70 sq inches. 101/70 = 1.44
ratio. If you have the measurements, what is the actual inlet square inch
number and the out/in ratio." (I measured and it is about 68 sq in.)

"On Bob's I just cut it out from one exhaust pipe to the other and forward
to about an inch behind the carb heat dump pipe. This is most likely a good
200 square inches of outlet and seems to do the trick overly well.."

My questions are:
1) Does anyone know where to get ready made "shark" gills? It
would make increasing the exhaust flow a lot easier without making a big
exhaust plenum hanging down underneath the cowling as I have seen in some
pictures.
2) Did Howard's configuration provide sufficient cooling for his flying?
3) Has anyone had any over temp problems with about 100 sq in of exhaust
area?
4) Is it necessary to have an external carb heat dump pipe or am I
misreading the quote?

Thanking any and all for your assistance.


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Wayne G. O'Shea

[rebel-builders] Rebel - Speed cowl exit air

Post by Wayne G. O'Shea » Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:34 am

I missed the heat dump. It depends on your set up. If you are using forced
air into a sealed shroud then YES you need a dump pipe for when carb heat is
selected to the off postion to keep air flowing thru the shroud so the pipes
don't overheat in the shroud location. If you are just using a screened
inlet beside a hot pipe.... to draw air when carb heat is selected ON then
you don't really need a dump pipe...but probably a good idea to negate any
possiblity of sucking hot air....robbing power for take off.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <beep@sympatico.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 8:43 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Rebel - Speed cowl exit air

Hi Gary !

I think you are on the right track - increase the outlet ! There are
also some folks who have had results from enlarging & smoothing
the inlets ....
My questions are:
1) Does anyone know where to get ready made "shark" gills? It
would make increasing the exhaust flow a lot easier without making a big
exhaust plenum hanging down underneath the cowling as I have seen in some
pictures.
I'm with Wayne - probably not too helpful with heat ....
2) Did Howard's configuration provide sufficient cooling for his flying?
3) Has anyone had any over temp problems with about 100 sq in of exhaust
area?
Yes ! My oil was up to 240+, and CHT's were way up too - with
the
original cut out hole at the bottom ! I would definitely NOT recommend
that !!!! If you can make stand-offs to lower the whole bottom rear of
the cowling by at least a couple of inches, that will look & work better.
The key is to be sure that the rear of the cowling is AT LEAST an inch or
2
or more BEHIND the firewall - otherwise, the air flows UP & INTO the cowl,
greatly increasing temps ! Putting aluminum over the bottom firewall
lip to round it and smooth exit air flow will also help greatly ... just
fasten to belly & wrap up to 4 or 6" above the bottom of the firewall.
(Aluminum body repair tape will do, if it's too late for alum. sheet.)
4) Is it necessary to have an external carb heat dump pipe or am I
misreading the quote?
That would be the vertical tube that extends downward from the
carb air box on most engines .... (approx. 1 1/2" diameter)

--
......bobp
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Tuesday 16 January 2007 22:23, Gary Gustafson wrote:
I am currently working on my speed cowl and modifying it to increase
the amount of exhaust air. I have an O320 (160 HP) and it will be on
wheels,
but would like to plan for eventual floats. In that regard, back in July
2002, Wayne O'Shea wrote the following in an email:

"Rule of thumb!? Cut 'till the temps are right! But yes I have read in
many
places one and a half times the inlet. Didn't do any calcs when we did
Howard's. We just slit the MAM scoop down the sides and kept putting in
larger pieces of aluminum until the temps dropped to an acceptable limit.
It
was then glassed in at this size and the aluminum removed."

"Howard's main outlet is 4 1/4 x 14 1/2 = ~62 sq inches and then there is
about 12 square inches around each exhaust pipe, plus he added the two 1
1/2" x 5" shark gills for another 15 sq inches for a total of ~ 101
square
inches. Don't have a speed cowling here to measure the inlet size, but
I'll
guess at about 5" x 7" each side for a total of 70 sq inches. 101/70 =
1.44
ratio. If you have the measurements, what is the actual inlet square inch
number and the out/in ratio." (I measured and it is about 68 sq in.)

"On Bob's I just cut it out from one exhaust pipe to the other and
forward
to about an inch behind the carb heat dump pipe. This is most likely a
good
200 square inches of outlet and seems to do the trick overly well.."

My questions are:
1) Does anyone know where to get ready made "shark" gills? It
would make increasing the exhaust flow a lot easier without making a big
exhaust plenum hanging down underneath the cowling as I have seen in some
pictures.
2) Did Howard's configuration provide sufficient cooling for his flying?
3) Has anyone had any over temp problems with about 100 sq in of exhaust
area?
4) Is it necessary to have an external carb heat dump pipe or am I
misreading the quote?

Thanking any and all for your assistance.


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Rick Harper

[rebel-builders] Rebel - Speed cowl exit air

Post by Rick Harper » Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:34 am

G'day Gaz & Bob .....

(sorry for the late reply - been sleeping at the hangar for the last 2 days - workin' on our Rebel)

Gaz ! ... If you extend the bottom of the cowl a little bit PAST the firewall - it creates a venturi effect & it SUCKS the air through BIG TIME !!!

(Ours actually runs TOO cool now - and this is in bloody hot Australia !!! )

Rick "Biggus" Harper
541R

PS: Ran her up the other day :o) ..... went GREAT !! :o)
Hope to get her back in the air real soon - YIPEEEEE !!! :o)

PPS : If you look at the Rebel archives - I think there's some pic's of our cowl in there !
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Patterson
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 12:43 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Rebel - Speed cowl exit air



Hi Gary !

I think you are on the right track - increase the outlet ! There are
also some folks who have had results from enlarging & smoothing
the inlets ....
My questions are:
1) Does anyone know where to get ready made "shark" gills? It
would make increasing the exhaust flow a lot easier without making a big
exhaust plenum hanging down underneath the cowling as I have seen in some
pictures.
I'm with Wayne - probably not too helpful with heat ....
2) Did Howard's configuration provide sufficient cooling for his flying?
3) Has anyone had any over temp problems with about 100 sq in of exhaust
area?
Yes ! My oil was up to 240+, and CHT's were way up too - with the
original cut out hole at the bottom ! I would definitely NOT recommend
that !!!! If you can make stand-offs to lower the whole bottom rear of
the cowling by at least a couple of inches, that will look & work better.
The key is to be sure that the rear of the cowling is AT LEAST an inch or 2
or more BEHIND the firewall - otherwise, the air flows UP & INTO the cowl,
greatly increasing temps ! Putting aluminum over the bottom firewall
lip to round it and smooth exit air flow will also help greatly ... just
fasten to belly & wrap up to 4 or 6" above the bottom of the firewall.
(Aluminum body repair tape will do, if it's too late for alum. sheet.)
4) Is it necessary to have an external carb heat dump pipe or am I
misreading the quote?
That would be the vertical tube that extends downward from the
carb air box on most engines .... (approx. 1 1/2" diameter)

--
......bobp
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Tuesday 16 January 2007 22:23, Gary Gustafson wrote:
I am currently working on my speed cowl and modifying it to increase
the amount of exhaust air. I have an O320 (160 HP) and it will be on wheels,
but would like to plan for eventual floats. In that regard, back in July
2002, Wayne O'Shea wrote the following in an email:

"Rule of thumb!? Cut 'till the temps are right! But yes I have read in many
places one and a half times the inlet. Didn't do any calcs when we did
Howard's. We just slit the MAM scoop down the sides and kept putting in
larger pieces of aluminum until the temps dropped to an acceptable limit. It
was then glassed in at this size and the aluminum removed."

"Howard's main outlet is 4 1/4 x 14 1/2 = ~62 sq inches and then there is
about 12 square inches around each exhaust pipe, plus he added the two 1
1/2" x 5" shark gills for another 15 sq inches for a total of ~ 101 square
inches. Don't have a speed cowling here to measure the inlet size, but I'll
guess at about 5" x 7" each side for a total of 70 sq inches. 101/70 = 1.44
ratio. If you have the measurements, what is the actual inlet square inch
number and the out/in ratio." (I measured and it is about 68 sq in.)

"On Bob's I just cut it out from one exhaust pipe to the other and forward
to about an inch behind the carb heat dump pipe. This is most likely a good
200 square inches of outlet and seems to do the trick overly well.."

My questions are:
1) Does anyone know where to get ready made "shark" gills? It
would make increasing the exhaust flow a lot easier without making a big
exhaust plenum hanging down underneath the cowling as I have seen in some
pictures.
2) Did Howard's configuration provide sufficient cooling for his flying?
3) Has anyone had any over temp problems with about 100 sq in of exhaust
area?
4) Is it necessary to have an external carb heat dump pipe or am I
misreading the quote?

Thanking any and all for your assistance.


-----------------------------------------------------------------
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username "rebel" password "builder"
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