[rebel-builders] Engine Choices

[Gary Gustafson]

I was just reading the Hatz Bantam write-up in Sport Aviation
and he selected the Jabiru 3300 for his plane and lists his reasons
on his web page at:
http://www.hatzbantam.com/engine%20options.htm
Weight, HP, and useful load are the primary reasons for the Jabiru.
A friend of mine has one and so far has 117 hours of flawless
Operation. He is very happy with it.
Gary

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Charlie Eubanks
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 10:19 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] Engine Choices

Rebel Builders



One of the many reasons I chose to build the Rebel was to certify it as a
"Experimental Amateur Built Aircraft" yet build it light enough that I could

fly it under the LSA pilot rules if I have to. The choice of engines is of
course a major factor in that goal. I have looked at the obvious choices.
The 116 HP 0235 Lycoming, the 100 HP Continental 0-200 and the 100 HP Rotax
ULS.



I would like to hear comments from Rebel builders who are, or at one time
had considered installing a Rotec or a Jabiru 3300 in their Rebel.



Charlie E. 802R




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[Tim Hickey]

Hello, Charlie:
I share your interest, and I hope that some good input develops from your
question.
When I was at OSH 2006 I stopped in at the Continental Engine Co tent. There
they were displaying an engine that was supposed to become available "next
year". (What ever that may mean)
I do not recall the exact model description of the engine, but it was
supposed to be a 200 CID engine, and I think it was supposed to make 100 hp
at 2800 RPM. It was injected, had "light weight accessories" (light weight
starter and alternator), had a dual "transistorized ignition", and was
approved to burn auto gas.
The final kicker was that the entire package was supposed to weigh "under
200 pounds".
Cost was thought to be 19,000.


Have any other builders seen this or have additional information about such
an engine?

It sounds very interesting to me, except the 19,000 part.

Tim Hickey
808R (maybe)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie Eubanks" <charlie@troyairpark.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 9:19 AM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Engine Choices

Rebel Builders



One of the many reasons I chose to build the Rebel was to certify it as a
"Experimental Amateur Built Aircraft" yet build it light enough that I
could
fly it under the LSA pilot rules if I have to. The choice of engines is of
course a major factor in that goal. I have looked at the obvious choices.
The 116 HP 0235 Lycoming, the 100 HP Continental 0-200 and the 100 HP
Rotax
ULS.



I would like to hear comments from Rebel builders who are, or at one time
had considered installing a Rotec or a Jabiru 3300 in their Rebel.



Charlie E. 802R




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[Ron Shannon]

Charlie,

I'm installing a Jabiru 3300 in 254R, to be certified as an amateur
built experimental (ABE) LSA. My reasons for selecting the 3300 were
conventional design, engineering simplicity, lightweight, good rep, etc.
Due to weight considerations, the only other serious contender for me
was the Rotax 912 ULS which, although it is a little lighter, also has
lower max HP, at least as rated. Although many good folk do swear by the
912's reliability, and they may well be right, it is a more complex
design (dual carbs, gearbox, plumbing, outboard oil sump, etc.)

There has been considerable discussion on this list about issues with
prop selection with the Jabiru 3300, due to its relatively high tip
speeds at its max power, direct drive 3300 RPM. While I don't want to
reopen that debate, at Oshkosh '06 I did find the folks from Legend
Aircraft were very happy with a Sensenich W68CK38 wood prop on their
3300-powered LSA Cub knockoff. After discussing the issues with
Sensenich engineers at length, I decided to get a W68CK38G (with
composite covering) for 254R. Though it's not flying yet, I'm expecting
it will perform well.

BTW, when comparing engine weights, be sure you're comparing apples to
apples, i.e., weight with all accessories -- or not. The 3300 with
starter, alternator, regulator & complete exhaust system, etc., is about
175 lbs.

Ron
254R
http://n254mr.com



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[John Kramer]

Charlie,

I'm building much as you; Experimental Amateur built qualifying under
Sport Pilot rules.

I have been looking at the Jabiru, the Rotax and the Rotec
primarily. I've looked at Diesels that probably won't ever happen,
Franklins, Lycomings and Continentals in addition to various auto
conversions. Several of the guys at our local EAA chapter are flying
Jabirus in 601's & 701's, Sonex, etc. few down this way use Rotax and
one Kitfox is sporting a very pretty but non-running Rotec out front.

I'm a long way from needing an engine so I am keeping an eye out for
something I've missed. If I was spending money today I'd probably
buy Rotax though the lesser amounts of plumbing on the Jabiru are
appealing. Raven offers the only auto conversion might be light enough.

One of the locals had a very early model 3300 mounted in a 601HD he
had several problems with exhaust and valves. The Jabiru dealer in
TN swapped out the engine and Fred says he was treated more than fair.

John...369R

At 09:19 AM 12/11/2006, you wrote:

Rebel Builders



One of the many reasons I chose to build the Rebel was to certify it as a
"Experimental Amateur Built Aircraft" yet build it light enough that I could
fly it under the LSA pilot rules if I have to. The choice of engines is of
course a major factor in that goal. I have looked at the obvious choices.
The 116 HP 0235 Lycoming, the 100 HP Continental 0-200 and the 100 HP Rotax
ULS.



I would like to hear comments from Rebel builders who are, or at one time
had considered installing a Rotec or a Jabiru 3300 in their Rebel.



Charlie E. 802R




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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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[Ron Shannon]

John Kramer wrote:
...

One of the locals had a very early model 3300 mounted in a 601HD he
had several problems with exhaust and valves. The Jabiru dealer in
TN swapped out the engine and Fred says he was treated more than fair.

FWIW, early problems with valves may have been exacerbated, if not
caused, by the original, manually adjusted valves design. Since April
'06, all 3300's are now shipping with hydraulic valve lifters, which
have been in the 2200 engines (80 HP) for at least a year and a half
before that, reportedly with good results. I got my 3300 in June, with
hydraulic lifters.

Ron



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[Keith Leitch]

I knew there was a reason I am so slow at getting my
Rebel done! I am just waiting for someone else to try
all these different engines and tell me which one is
best. I keep tossing around the idea of going LSA
also. Due to a medical problem I am worried that it
won't be long till I can no longer obtain a medical
and then if I have my Rebel built LSA compliant at
least I can still fly.
I recently purchased a 7AC Champ that has an O-235
installed and it performs fairly good. It is heavy
(nearly 900 lbs) but has VG's and as long as my Rebel
will perform as good as it when I am done I will be
happy. (That is if I have to go LSA) If my health
holds out.....well, lets just say I LOVE HORSEPOWER!!!

Keith


--- Charlie Eubanks <charlie@troyairpark.com> wrote:

Rebel Builders



One of the many reasons I chose to build the Rebel
was to certify it as a
"Experimental Amateur Built Aircraft" yet build it
light enough that I could
fly it under the LSA pilot rules if I have to. The
choice of engines is of
course a major factor in that goal. I have looked at
the obvious choices.
The 116 HP 0235 Lycoming, the 100 HP Continental
0-200 and the 100 HP Rotax
ULS.



I would like to hear comments from Rebel builders
who are, or at one time
had considered installing a Rotec or a Jabiru 3300
in their Rebel.



Charlie E. 802R

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[Joe Ronco]

Charlie: I am also considering building a Rebel in the LSA category. In
addition to the Rotax 912 ULS (100 HP @ 5800 RPM) and the Jabiru 3300
(120 HP @3300 RPM) and the Rotec R2800 (110 HP @ 3700 RPM and about 210
lbs dry weight with no accessories-too heavy) I am also looking at the
NEW UL Power (www.ulpower.com) 260i (95 HP @ 3300 RPM) with fuel
injection and FADEC. It is a 4 cylinder 4 stroke like the Jabiru 2200
but with a larger bore. The mounting dimensions are the same as the
Jabiru 2200 and the installed weight with accessories is about 160 lbs.
There is talk of UL Power increasing the sroke from 74 mm to 100 mm and
getting 120-125 HP in a 4 cylinder engine. Thus may be 12-18 months away
though. UL Power will be at the Sport Aviation Expo in Sebring FL in
January. I am going to the expo and will take pictures of the 260i and
try to post them to this site.

The Continental engine mentioned, the IO-200, is a new fuel injected
version of the O-200 but not too much information is available yet.

I hope this helps.

Joe Ronco

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Charlie Eubanks
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 8:19 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] Engine Choices


Rebel Builders



One of the many reasons I chose to build the Rebel was to certify it as
a
"Experimental Amateur Built Aircraft" yet build it light enough that I
could
fly it under the LSA pilot rules if I have to. The choice of engines is
of
course a major factor in that goal. I have looked at the obvious
choices.
The 116 HP 0235 Lycoming, the 100 HP Continental 0-200 and the 100 HP
Rotax
ULS.



I would like to hear comments from Rebel builders who are, or at one
time
had considered installing a Rotec or a Jabiru 3300 in their Rebel.



Charlie E. 802R




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[rshannon]

FYI - There is a good article about Jabiru engines history and engineering
in Kitplanes Magazine, Jan 2007, p. 61.

Ron




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