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[rebel-builders] Flight number 3

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Bob Patterson

[rebel-builders] Flight number 3

Post by Bob Patterson » Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:20 am

Hi Mike !

Cheer up ! If it's any consolation, you're not alone - "been
there, done that" a couple of weeks ago !! :-( Got 4,500+ on
climb, 2,000 fpm this time - yahoo !! Everything looked great
until 2/3 way down downwind, then - poof ! clouds of smoke from
the top of the cowling, then the cockpit filled with it ....
opened the window, tried to hold it open with my elbow to get fresh air.
(Note to self - be sure to build in a good source of fresh air !)

Yet another steepish turn from base to final, lower than I like,
All temps off the end ! Power back, but decide to try to keep it
running until on the ground .... a couple of sputters ...
Got it down and off the runway, shut down & coasted most of the
way back to the hangar. .... Whew ! ....
Exactly the same - tower asking about crash crew - finally 'negative'.
Don't think inhaling all that glycol is good for the lungs !
Yep - blew the coolant hose off the top rear of the engine.
Fortunately, everything has checked out ok - compression still
good, no burned bearings, ... will try again in a few weeks.

I think the word is spreading to towers everywhere - clear space
for V8 Meeseses !!! I think they groan now when I taxi out ! ;-)
Had a long hold while they cleared other traffic before takeoff, but
temps stayed about 200 - great ! Lots of power now !!

Two days flying, 3 emergency landings - up to 1.5 hours now ...

They say "That which doesn't kill you, makes you stronger !" :-)

Sooo .... anxious listeners want to know ... was it a hole in
a piston, or just a plugged vent line ... or ????

PS
If you really want to burn off altitude, use 3 notches of
flap & push !! Get back to 2 notches before landing, though ...
VERY difficult to do a good one with 3 notches !!
--
......bobp
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com
http://apatterson2.qbeautyzone.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Tuesday 24 October 2006 11:48 pm, Mike Kimball wrote:
Multiple engine runs on the ground including multiple max power runs. A few
adjustments to the carb and distributer. Everything looking good. At the
run-up area everything looks good. All gauges in the green. Coolant and
oil temp low but off the peg. Down the runway I nearly lose it because I
wasn't flying the airplane. I was watching engine gauges. Everything looks
good. Climb on upwind, all is well. I'm only getting 4000 RPM max which I
don't quite understand, but running smooth and all looks good. Turn to
crosswind and there is a slight drop in RPM to about 3800. Turn on downwind
and looks good. All of a sudden, power loss, rough engine, and smoke out
the right side of the cowl. I immediately tell the tower I'm landing on the
runway I just took off from but the other way. Power off, nose down,
airspeed climbing, losing runway fast. Despite not having explored the
plane's flight characteristics yet, I decide on a significant forward slip
to lose altitude, S-turning to keep as much runway left for me as possible.
I land disturbingly near the end still carrying too much speed. I pull the
stick into my lap and apply maximum braking. Somehow, I make the turn at
the end and taxi clear and shut down. I look back at the runway and there's
a huge cloud of smoke. No wonder the tower kept calling to ask if I needed
assistance as I was trying to manage an emergency landing. I ignored their
calls for a while then finally managed a "negative" on the air. I didn't
know there was that much smoke. I get out and look for fire. Just smoke.
I discover the source of the smoke. There is oil dripping out of the right
hand exhaust pipe. Dangit! What now! I open a cowl door and find the
dipstick almost all the way out. I also see signs of oil around the
breather caps on the valve covers. Excessive crankcase pressure? Really?
Why hasn't this manifested itself during ground runs? Maybe because I don't
keep the engine running at max power for very long on the ground. I figure
0.2 in the logbook for this flight. That's twice as long as the last one.
I'm getting awfully tired of emergency landings though. I bet the tower is
like, "Oh no, 744MK again. Clear some airspace for him."

Mike
044SR



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eric.r

[rebel-builders] Flight number 3

Post by eric.r » Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:20 am

My vote is a holed piston ... did you here a tapping noise similar to a lifter?
that's what I've heard with a holed piston in a small block. I love V-8's, but I
used my eight or so lives already and am going with Lycoming. Slow, gas
burning, Old technology, proven and dependable, and oh yeah ... expensive.
Are you sure your tach is correct? Sounds like a 8,000 rpm small block instead
of 4000!
On 10/24/2006 8:32 PM, beep@sympatico.ca wrote to rebel-builders:

->
-> Hi Mike !
->
-> Cheer up ! If it's any consolation, you're not alone - "been
-> there, done that" a couple of weeks ago !! :-( Got 4,500+ on
-> climb, 2,000 fpm this time - yahoo !! Everything looked great
-> until 2/3 way down downwind, then - poof ! clouds of smoke from
-> the top of the cowling, then the cockpit filled with it ....
-> opened the window, tried to hold it open with my elbow to get fresh air.
-> (Note to self - be sure to build in a good source of fresh air !)
->
-> Yet another steepish turn from base to final, lower than I like,
-> All temps off the end ! Power back, but decide to try to keep it
-> running until on the ground .... a couple of sputters ...
-> Got it down and off the runway, shut down & coasted most of the
-> way back to the hangar. .... Whew ! ....
-> Exactly the same - tower asking about crash crew - finally 'negative'.
-> Don't think inhaling all that glycol is good for the lungs !
-> Yep - blew the coolant hose off the top rear of the engine.
-> Fortunately, everything has checked out ok - compression still
-> good, no burned bearings, ... will try again in a few weeks.
->
-> I think the word is spreading to towers everywhere - clear space
-> for V8 Meeseses !!! I think they groan now when I taxi out ! ;-)
-> Had a long hold while they cleared other traffic before takeoff, but
-> temps stayed about 200 - great ! Lots of power now !!
->
-> Two days flying, 3 emergency landings - up to 1.5 hours now ...
->
-> They say "That which doesn't kill you, makes you stronger !" :-)
->
-> Sooo .... anxious listeners want to know ... was it a hole in
-> a piston, or just a plugged vent line ... or ????
->
-> PS
-> If you really want to burn off altitude, use 3 notches of
-> flap & push !! Get back to 2 notches before landing, though ...
-> VERY difficult to do a good one with 3 notches !!
-> --
-> ......bobp
-> http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
-> http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com
-> http://apatterson2.qbeautyzone.com
->
-> -------------------------------orig.-------------------------
-> On Tuesday 24 October 2006 11:48 pm, Mike Kimball wrote:
-> > Multiple engine runs on the ground including multiple max power runs. A
few
-> > adjustments to the carb and distributer. Everything looking good. At
the
-> > run-up area everything looks good. All gauges in the green. Coolant and
-> > oil temp low but off the peg. Down the runway I nearly lose it because I
-> > wasn't flying the airplane. I was watching engine gauges. Everything
looks
-> > good. Climb on upwind, all is well. I'm only getting 4000 RPM max which
I
-> > don't quite understand, but running smooth and all looks good. Turn to
-> > crosswind and there is a slight drop in RPM to about 3800. Turn on
downwind
-> > and looks good. All of a sudden, power loss, rough engine, and smoke
out
-> > the right side of the cowl. I immediately tell the tower I'm landing on the
-> > runway I just took off from but the other way. Power off, nose down,
-> > airspeed climbing, losing runway fast. Despite not having explored the
-> > plane's flight characteristics yet, I decide on a significant forward slip
-> > to lose altitude, S-turning to keep as much runway left for me as
possible.
-> > I land disturbingly near the end still carrying too much speed. I pull the
-> > stick into my lap and apply maximum braking. Somehow, I make the turn
at
-> > the end and taxi clear and shut down. I look back at the runway and
there's
-> > a huge cloud of smoke. No wonder the tower kept calling to ask if I
needed
-> > assistance as I was trying to manage an emergency landing. I ignored
their
-> > calls for a while then finally managed a "negative" on the air. I didn't
-> > know there was that much smoke. I get out and look for fire. Just
smoke.
-> > I discover the source of the smoke. There is oil dripping out of the right
-> > hand exhaust pipe. Dangit! What now! I open a cowl door and find the
-> > dipstick almost all the way out. I also see signs of oil around the
-> > breather caps on the valve covers. Excessive crankcase pressure?
Really?
-> > Why hasn't this manifested itself during ground runs? Maybe because I
don't
-> > keep the engine running at max power for very long on the ground. I
figure
-> > 0.2 in the logbook for this flight. That's twice as long as the last one.
-> > I'm getting awfully tired of emergency landings though. I bet the tower
is
-> > like, "Oh no, 744MK again. Clear some airspace for him."
-> >
-> > Mike
-> > 044SR
-> >
->
->





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Mike Kimball

[rebel-builders] Flight number 3

Post by Mike Kimball » Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:20 am

Wow, Bob! That sounds a lot worse than my situation. Awfully glad you got
down safely. I wish the source of my trouble was the same as yours though.
I'd sure like to be dealing with keeping coolant lines attached instead of
what lays ahead for me. I'm back on dayshift for a while which means only
about an hour of daylight each day to look over the engine. Should be about
+20F to make it pleasant to work on as well.

For crankcase venting I simply have breather caps on the valve covers. I
might need something more positive like a PCV valve. How is crankcase
venting accomplished on that engine? I sure hope it's not a hole in a
piston. I'll get my leak down tester out to find out.

I was climbing at 500 fpm before things went wrong. I wasn't seeking a big
climb rate but I very much doubt I could get what you were getting. What
kind of prop is on that plane?

Mike
044SR

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Bob
Patterson
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 8:33 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Flight number 3


Hi Mike !

Cheer up ! If it's any consolation, you're not alone - "been
there, done that" a couple of weeks ago !! :-( Got 4,500+ on
climb, 2,000 fpm this time - yahoo !! Everything looked great
until 2/3 way down downwind, then - poof ! clouds of smoke from
the top of the cowling, then the cockpit filled with it ....
opened the window, tried to hold it open with my elbow to get fresh air.
(Note to self - be sure to build in a good source of fresh air !)

Yet another steepish turn from base to final, lower than I like,
All temps off the end ! Power back, but decide to try to keep it
running until on the ground .... a couple of sputters ...
Got it down and off the runway, shut down & coasted most of the
way back to the hangar. .... Whew ! ....
Exactly the same - tower asking about crash crew - finally 'negative'.
Don't think inhaling all that glycol is good for the lungs !
Yep - blew the coolant hose off the top rear of the engine.
Fortunately, everything has checked out ok - compression still
good, no burned bearings, ... will try again in a few weeks.

I think the word is spreading to towers everywhere - clear space
for V8 Meeseses !!! I think they groan now when I taxi out ! ;-)
Had a long hold while they cleared other traffic before takeoff, but
temps stayed about 200 - great ! Lots of power now !!

Two days flying, 3 emergency landings - up to 1.5 hours now ...

They say "That which doesn't kill you, makes you stronger !" :-)

Sooo .... anxious listeners want to know ... was it a hole in
a piston, or just a plugged vent line ... or ????

PS
If you really want to burn off altitude, use 3 notches of
flap & push !! Get back to 2 notches before landing, though ...
VERY difficult to do a good one with 3 notches !!
--
......bobp
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com
http://apatterson2.qbeautyzone.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Tuesday 24 October 2006 11:48 pm, Mike Kimball wrote:
Multiple engine runs on the ground including multiple max power runs. A
few
adjustments to the carb and distributer. Everything looking good. At the
run-up area everything looks good. All gauges in the green. Coolant and
oil temp low but off the peg. Down the runway I nearly lose it because I
wasn't flying the airplane. I was watching engine gauges. Everything
looks
good. Climb on upwind, all is well. I'm only getting 4000 RPM max which
I
don't quite understand, but running smooth and all looks good. Turn to
crosswind and there is a slight drop in RPM to about 3800. Turn on
downwind
and looks good. All of a sudden, power loss, rough engine, and smoke out
the right side of the cowl. I immediately tell the tower I'm landing on
the
runway I just took off from but the other way. Power off, nose down,
airspeed climbing, losing runway fast. Despite not having explored the
plane's flight characteristics yet, I decide on a significant forward slip
to lose altitude, S-turning to keep as much runway left for me as
possible.
I land disturbingly near the end still carrying too much speed. I pull
the
stick into my lap and apply maximum braking. Somehow, I make the turn at
the end and taxi clear and shut down. I look back at the runway and
there's
a huge cloud of smoke. No wonder the tower kept calling to ask if I
needed
assistance as I was trying to manage an emergency landing. I ignored
their
calls for a while then finally managed a "negative" on the air. I didn't
know there was that much smoke. I get out and look for fire. Just smoke.
I discover the source of the smoke. There is oil dripping out of the
right
hand exhaust pipe. Dangit! What now! I open a cowl door and find the
dipstick almost all the way out. I also see signs of oil around the
breather caps on the valve covers. Excessive crankcase pressure? Really?
Why hasn't this manifested itself during ground runs? Maybe because I
don't
keep the engine running at max power for very long on the ground. I
figure
0.2 in the logbook for this flight. That's twice as long as the last one.
I'm getting awfully tired of emergency landings though. I bet the tower
is
like, "Oh no, 744MK again. Clear some airspace for him."

Mike
044SR



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Brian

[rebel-builders] Flight number 3

Post by Brian » Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:20 am

Thanks for the updates, Mike. I really appreciate reading about your
progress.

Does anyone know if Brian Robinson has the V8 SR flying yet?
http://www.v8aircraft.com/options.asp


Mike, wondering why you didn't use fuel injection???

Brian

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Mike
Kimball
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 5:00 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Flight number 3

Wow, Bob! That sounds a lot worse than my situation. Awfully glad you got
down safely. I wish the source of my trouble was the same as yours though.
I'd sure like to be dealing with keeping coolant lines attached instead of
what lays ahead for me. I'm back on dayshift for a while which means only
about an hour of daylight each day to look over the engine. Should be about
+20F to make it pleasant to work on as well.

For crankcase venting I simply have breather caps on the valve covers. I
might need something more positive like a PCV valve. How is crankcase
venting accomplished on that engine? I sure hope it's not a hole in a
piston. I'll get my leak down tester out to find out.

I was climbing at 500 fpm before things went wrong. I wasn't seeking a big
climb rate but I very much doubt I could get what you were getting. What
kind of prop is on that plane?

Mike
044SR

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Bob
Patterson
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 8:33 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Flight number 3


Hi Mike !

Cheer up ! If it's any consolation, you're not alone - "been
there, done that" a couple of weeks ago !! :-( Got 4,500+ on
climb, 2,000 fpm this time - yahoo !! Everything looked great
until 2/3 way down downwind, then - poof ! clouds of smoke from
the top of the cowling, then the cockpit filled with it ....
opened the window, tried to hold it open with my elbow to get fresh air.
(Note to self - be sure to build in a good source of fresh air !)

Yet another steepish turn from base to final, lower than I like,
All temps off the end ! Power back, but decide to try to keep it
running until on the ground .... a couple of sputters ...
Got it down and off the runway, shut down & coasted most of the
way back to the hangar. .... Whew ! ....
Exactly the same - tower asking about crash crew - finally 'negative'.
Don't think inhaling all that glycol is good for the lungs !
Yep - blew the coolant hose off the top rear of the engine.
Fortunately, everything has checked out ok - compression still
good, no burned bearings, ... will try again in a few weeks.

I think the word is spreading to towers everywhere - clear space
for V8 Meeseses !!! I think they groan now when I taxi out ! ;-)
Had a long hold while they cleared other traffic before takeoff, but
temps stayed about 200 - great ! Lots of power now !!

Two days flying, 3 emergency landings - up to 1.5 hours now ...

They say "That which doesn't kill you, makes you stronger !" :-)

Sooo .... anxious listeners want to know ... was it a hole in
a piston, or just a plugged vent line ... or ????

PS
If you really want to burn off altitude, use 3 notches of
flap & push !! Get back to 2 notches before landing, though ...
VERY difficult to do a good one with 3 notches !!
--
......bobp
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com
http://apatterson2.qbeautyzone.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Tuesday 24 October 2006 11:48 pm, Mike Kimball wrote:
Multiple engine runs on the ground including multiple max power runs. A
few
adjustments to the carb and distributer. Everything looking good. At the
run-up area everything looks good. All gauges in the green. Coolant and
oil temp low but off the peg. Down the runway I nearly lose it because I
wasn't flying the airplane. I was watching engine gauges. Everything
looks
good. Climb on upwind, all is well. I'm only getting 4000 RPM max which
I
don't quite understand, but running smooth and all looks good. Turn to
crosswind and there is a slight drop in RPM to about 3800. Turn on
downwind
and looks good. All of a sudden, power loss, rough engine, and smoke out
the right side of the cowl. I immediately tell the tower I'm landing on
the
runway I just took off from but the other way. Power off, nose down,
airspeed climbing, losing runway fast. Despite not having explored the
plane's flight characteristics yet, I decide on a significant forward slip
to lose altitude, S-turning to keep as much runway left for me as
possible.
I land disturbingly near the end still carrying too much speed. I pull
the
stick into my lap and apply maximum braking. Somehow, I make the turn at
the end and taxi clear and shut down. I look back at the runway and
there's
a huge cloud of smoke. No wonder the tower kept calling to ask if I
needed
assistance as I was trying to manage an emergency landing. I ignored
their
calls for a while then finally managed a "negative" on the air. I didn't
know there was that much smoke. I get out and look for fire. Just smoke.
I discover the source of the smoke. There is oil dripping out of the
right
hand exhaust pipe. Dangit! What now! I open a cowl door and find the
dipstick almost all the way out. I also see signs of oil around the
breather caps on the valve covers. Excessive crankcase pressure? Really?
Why hasn't this manifested itself during ground runs? Maybe because I
don't
keep the engine running at max power for very long on the ground. I
figure
0.2 in the logbook for this flight. That's twice as long as the last one.
I'm getting awfully tired of emergency landings though. I bet the tower
is
like, "Oh no, 744MK again. Clear some airspace for him."

Mike
044SR



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Wayne G. O'Shea

[rebel-builders] Flight number 3

Post by Wayne G. O'Shea » Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:20 am

ummm...that would be what Bob P. is keeping his pucker factor up in these
days! ;O)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian" <Northernliving@sc.rr.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 7:53 PM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Flight number 3

Thanks for the updates, Mike. I really appreciate reading about your
progress.

Does anyone know if Brian Robinson has the V8 SR flying yet?
http://www.v8aircraft.com/options.asp


Mike, wondering why you didn't use fuel injection???

Brian

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Mike
Kimball
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 5:00 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Flight number 3

Wow, Bob! That sounds a lot worse than my situation. Awfully glad you
got
down safely. I wish the source of my trouble was the same as yours
though.
I'd sure like to be dealing with keeping coolant lines attached instead of
what lays ahead for me. I'm back on dayshift for a while which means only
about an hour of daylight each day to look over the engine. Should be
about
+20F to make it pleasant to work on as well.

For crankcase venting I simply have breather caps on the valve covers. I
might need something more positive like a PCV valve. How is crankcase
venting accomplished on that engine? I sure hope it's not a hole in a
piston. I'll get my leak down tester out to find out.

I was climbing at 500 fpm before things went wrong. I wasn't seeking a
big
climb rate but I very much doubt I could get what you were getting. What
kind of prop is on that plane?

Mike
044SR

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Bob
Patterson
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 8:33 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Flight number 3


Hi Mike !

Cheer up ! If it's any consolation, you're not alone - "been
there, done that" a couple of weeks ago !! :-( Got 4,500+ on
climb, 2,000 fpm this time - yahoo !! Everything looked great
until 2/3 way down downwind, then - poof ! clouds of smoke from
the top of the cowling, then the cockpit filled with it ....
opened the window, tried to hold it open with my elbow to get fresh air.
(Note to self - be sure to build in a good source of fresh air !)

Yet another steepish turn from base to final, lower than I like,
All temps off the end ! Power back, but decide to try to keep it
running until on the ground .... a couple of sputters ...
Got it down and off the runway, shut down & coasted most of the
way back to the hangar. .... Whew ! ....
Exactly the same - tower asking about crash crew - finally 'negative'.
Don't think inhaling all that glycol is good for the lungs !
Yep - blew the coolant hose off the top rear of the engine.
Fortunately, everything has checked out ok - compression still
good, no burned bearings, ... will try again in a few weeks.

I think the word is spreading to towers everywhere - clear space
for V8 Meeseses !!! I think they groan now when I taxi out ! ;-)
Had a long hold while they cleared other traffic before takeoff, but
temps stayed about 200 - great ! Lots of power now !!

Two days flying, 3 emergency landings - up to 1.5 hours now ...

They say "That which doesn't kill you, makes you stronger !" :-)

Sooo .... anxious listeners want to know ... was it a hole in
a piston, or just a plugged vent line ... or ????

PS
If you really want to burn off altitude, use 3 notches of
flap & push !! Get back to 2 notches before landing, though ...
VERY difficult to do a good one with 3 notches !!
--
......bobp
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com
http://apatterson2.qbeautyzone.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Tuesday 24 October 2006 11:48 pm, Mike Kimball wrote:
Multiple engine runs on the ground including multiple max power runs. A
few
adjustments to the carb and distributer. Everything looking good. At
the
run-up area everything looks good. All gauges in the green. Coolant and
oil temp low but off the peg. Down the runway I nearly lose it because I
wasn't flying the airplane. I was watching engine gauges. Everything
looks
good. Climb on upwind, all is well. I'm only getting 4000 RPM max which
I
don't quite understand, but running smooth and all looks good. Turn to
crosswind and there is a slight drop in RPM to about 3800. Turn on
downwind
and looks good. All of a sudden, power loss, rough engine, and smoke out
the right side of the cowl. I immediately tell the tower I'm landing on
the
runway I just took off from but the other way. Power off, nose down,
airspeed climbing, losing runway fast. Despite not having explored the
plane's flight characteristics yet, I decide on a significant forward
slip
to lose altitude, S-turning to keep as much runway left for me as
possible.
I land disturbingly near the end still carrying too much speed. I pull
the
stick into my lap and apply maximum braking. Somehow, I make the turn at
the end and taxi clear and shut down. I look back at the runway and
there's
a huge cloud of smoke. No wonder the tower kept calling to ask if I
needed
assistance as I was trying to manage an emergency landing. I ignored
their
calls for a while then finally managed a "negative" on the air. I didn't
know there was that much smoke. I get out and look for fire. Just
smoke.
I discover the source of the smoke. There is oil dripping out of the
right
hand exhaust pipe. Dangit! What now! I open a cowl door and find the
dipstick almost all the way out. I also see signs of oil around the
breather caps on the valve covers. Excessive crankcase pressure?
Really?
Why hasn't this manifested itself during ground runs? Maybe because I
don't
keep the engine running at max power for very long on the ground. I
figure
0.2 in the logbook for this flight. That's twice as long as the last
one.
I'm getting awfully tired of emergency landings though. I bet the tower
is
like, "Oh no, 744MK again. Clear some airspace for him."

Mike
044SR



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Bob Patterson

[rebel-builders] Flight number 3

Post by Bob Patterson » Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:20 am

Hi Mike !

It was exciting ! So was your flight !! Think we're both
happy to be alive !! :-)

Really sounds like you have a hole in a piston and it's pumping
oil out - hope it's something else.... Suspect a PCV would help.
Also some kind of knock sensor ...

Haven't paid much attention to the engine room - been leaving
that to the experts .... but I'm rapidly learning many things to
keep an eye on !! ;-) :-)

The prop is a 2 blade CS - think it's a Hartzell, and I think
the governor is an MT unit. Would be happier if I could get up
to 5,000 rpm on climb - it's a 2:1 re-drive, so that would get
the prop up to 2,500, where it could really work ! You will
likely get more climb with a finer pitch too ...

This one has Airflow Performance injection system - that was
a major source of intial problems, as ALL the bolts holding it on
had loosened off, leaning the mixture ! Will watch that in
future !! Certainly might be better than that carb for you ! :-)

--
......bobp
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com
http://apatterson2.qbeautyzone.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Wednesday 25 October 2006 05:00 pm, Mike Kimball wrote:
Wow, Bob! That sounds a lot worse than my situation. Awfully glad you got
down safely. I wish the source of my trouble was the same as yours though.
I'd sure like to be dealing with keeping coolant lines attached instead of
what lays ahead for me. I'm back on dayshift for a while which means only
about an hour of daylight each day to look over the engine. Should be about
+20F to make it pleasant to work on as well.

For crankcase venting I simply have breather caps on the valve covers. I
might need something more positive like a PCV valve. How is crankcase
venting accomplished on that engine? I sure hope it's not a hole in a
piston. I'll get my leak down tester out to find out.

I was climbing at 500 fpm before things went wrong. I wasn't seeking a big
climb rate but I very much doubt I could get what you were getting. What
kind of prop is on that plane?

Mike
044SR

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Bob
Patterson
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 8:33 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Flight number 3


Hi Mike !

Cheer up ! If it's any consolation, you're not alone - "been
there, done that" a couple of weeks ago !! :-( Got 4,500+ on
climb, 2,000 fpm this time - yahoo !! Everything looked great
until 2/3 way down downwind, then - poof ! clouds of smoke from
the top of the cowling, then the cockpit filled with it ....
opened the window, tried to hold it open with my elbow to get fresh air.
(Note to self - be sure to build in a good source of fresh air !)

Yet another steepish turn from base to final, lower than I like,
All temps off the end ! Power back, but decide to try to keep it
running until on the ground .... a couple of sputters ...
Got it down and off the runway, shut down & coasted most of the
way back to the hangar. .... Whew ! ....
Exactly the same - tower asking about crash crew - finally 'negative'.
Don't think inhaling all that glycol is good for the lungs !
Yep - blew the coolant hose off the top rear of the engine.
Fortunately, everything has checked out ok - compression still
good, no burned bearings, ... will try again in a few weeks.

I think the word is spreading to towers everywhere - clear space
for V8 Meeseses !!! I think they groan now when I taxi out ! ;-)
Had a long hold while they cleared other traffic before takeoff, but
temps stayed about 200 - great ! Lots of power now !!

Two days flying, 3 emergency landings - up to 1.5 hours now ...

They say "That which doesn't kill you, makes you stronger !" :-)

Sooo .... anxious listeners want to know ... was it a hole in
a piston, or just a plugged vent line ... or ????

PS
If you really want to burn off altitude, use 3 notches of
flap & push !! Get back to 2 notches before landing, though ...
VERY difficult to do a good one with 3 notches !!
--
......bobp
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com
http://apatterson2.qbeautyzone.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Tuesday 24 October 2006 11:48 pm, Mike Kimball wrote:
Multiple engine runs on the ground including multiple max power runs. A
few
adjustments to the carb and distributer. Everything looking good. At the
run-up area everything looks good. All gauges in the green. Coolant and
oil temp low but off the peg. Down the runway I nearly lose it because I
wasn't flying the airplane. I was watching engine gauges. Everything
looks
good. Climb on upwind, all is well. I'm only getting 4000 RPM max which
I
don't quite understand, but running smooth and all looks good. Turn to
crosswind and there is a slight drop in RPM to about 3800. Turn on
downwind
and looks good. All of a sudden, power loss, rough engine, and smoke out
the right side of the cowl. I immediately tell the tower I'm landing on
the
runway I just took off from but the other way. Power off, nose down,
airspeed climbing, losing runway fast. Despite not having explored the
plane's flight characteristics yet, I decide on a significant forward slip
to lose altitude, S-turning to keep as much runway left for me as
possible.
I land disturbingly near the end still carrying too much speed. I pull
the
stick into my lap and apply maximum braking. Somehow, I make the turn at
the end and taxi clear and shut down. I look back at the runway and
there's
a huge cloud of smoke. No wonder the tower kept calling to ask if I
needed
assistance as I was trying to manage an emergency landing. I ignored
their
calls for a while then finally managed a "negative" on the air. I didn't
know there was that much smoke. I get out and look for fire. Just smoke.
I discover the source of the smoke. There is oil dripping out of the
right
hand exhaust pipe. Dangit! What now! I open a cowl door and find the
dipstick almost all the way out. I also see signs of oil around the
breather caps on the valve covers. Excessive crankcase pressure? Really?
Why hasn't this manifested itself during ground runs? Maybe because I
don't
keep the engine running at max power for very long on the ground. I
figure
0.2 in the logbook for this flight. That's twice as long as the last one.
I'm getting awfully tired of emergency landings though. I bet the tower
is
like, "Oh no, 744MK again. Clear some airspace for him."

Mike
044SR


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Ken

[rebel-builders] Flight number 3

Post by Ken » Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:20 am

You guys are leading exciting lives!

Two thoughts:
One or more fresh air inlets is apparently required in Canada and the
inspector did note the inlet scoops on my side windows for that purpose.
Why did the smoke/steam get into the cabin? Good cowling and firewall
design should prevent any major inlet of smoke/fire/steam!

There are 3 methods used for keeping rad hoses secured on pipes that I'm
aware of from racing vehicles. I only like the raised bead method as
used on most production vehicles. For tubing. a bead can be made with a
parker beading tool or equivalent homemade tool. Knurling is popular and
some folks just drill a hole in the tube and let the hose extrude into
the hole when clamped. In any event if using silicone hoses you should
not use conventional hose clamps but rather ones with rolled or rounded
edges and of a design that does not let the gear come in contact with
the hose. Constant tension (spring loaded) clamps are sometimes used as
well.

Ken

Bob Patterson wrote:
Hi Mike !

Cheer up ! If it's any consolation, you're not alone - "been
there, done that" a couple of weeks ago !! :-( Got 4,500+ on
climb, 2,000 fpm this time - yahoo !! Everything looked great
until 2/3 way down downwind, then - poof ! clouds of smoke from
the top of the cowling, then the cockpit filled with it ....
opened the window, tried to hold it open with my elbow to get fresh air.
(Note to self - be sure to build in a good source of fresh air !)

Yet another steepish turn from base to final, lower than I like,
All temps off the end ! Power back, but decide to try to keep it
running until on the ground .... a couple of sputters ...
Got it down and off the runway, shut down & coasted most of the
way back to the hangar. .... Whew ! ....
Exactly the same - tower asking about crash crew - finally 'negative'.
Don't think inhaling all that glycol is good for the lungs !
Yep - blew the coolant hose off the top rear of the engine.
Fortunately, everything has checked out ok - compression still
good, no burned bearings, ... will try again in a few weeks.

I think the word is spreading to towers everywhere - clear space
for V8 Meeseses !!! I think they groan now when I taxi out ! ;-)
Had a long hold while they cleared other traffic before takeoff, but
temps stayed about 200 - great ! Lots of power now !!

Two days flying, 3 emergency landings - up to 1.5 hours now ...

They say "That which doesn't kill you, makes you stronger !" :-)

Sooo .... anxious listeners want to know ... was it a hole in
a piston, or just a plugged vent line ... or ????

PS
If you really want to burn off altitude, use 3 notches of
flap & push !! Get back to 2 notches before landing, though ...
VERY difficult to do a good one with 3 notches !!





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Ken

[rebel-builders] Flight number 3

Post by Ken » Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:20 am

I've heard of a couple of cases of crankcase pressure pushing a dipstick
out after a hundred or so hours and dumping the oil but this one sounds
like a piston problem to me as well.

A pcv valve can provide a significant increase in engine longevity and
have a bonus of reducing pollution but I don't see how it could be a
factor in this failure...

I would not want to tune a carb without at least a narrow band O2 sensor
($30.) to insure keeping to the rich side of stoich. Wide bands are only
a few hundred dollars now.
I don't think I'd trust a knock sensor for setting up the ignition
advance on a modified engine.

Ken
For crankcase venting I simply have breather caps on the valve covers. I
might need something more positive like a PCV valve. How is crankcase
venting accomplished on that engine? I sure hope it's not a hole in a
piston. I'll get my leak down tester out to find out.






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Bob Patterson

[rebel-builders] Flight number 3

Post by Bob Patterson » Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:20 am

Thanks Ken !

There might be a fresh air knob - I wasn't familiar enough
with the layout to find it quickly .... until now, it wasn't
high on my priority list ! ;-)

As for how that much steam got in ... we're looking into that,
and likely the fix will involve lots of high-temp silicone !! :-)

I think there IS a bead on the pump outlet fitting on the
engine - but will certainly check. Any sources for rounded-edge
gear clamps ??? Like the idea of simply drilling a couple of
holes !!

This refreshed my memory - a standard part of EVERY preflight
in the old 912 Rebel was using the fuel-checker screwdriver to
check ALL of the gear clamps - every few hours, one would loosen
up a bit ! Guess this will now get added to the V8 Moose preflight !
(Along with checking the injector attach bolts !)

--
......bobp
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com
-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Friday 27 October 2006 04:46 pm, Ken wrote:
You guys are leading exciting lives!

Two thoughts:
One or more fresh air inlets is apparently required in Canada and the
inspector did note the inlet scoops on my side windows for that purpose.
Why did the smoke/steam get into the cabin? Good cowling and firewall
design should prevent any major inlet of smoke/fire/steam!

There are 3 methods used for keeping rad hoses secured on pipes that I'm
aware of from racing vehicles. I only like the raised bead method as
used on most production vehicles. For tubing. a bead can be made with a
parker beading tool or equivalent homemade tool. Knurling is popular and
some folks just drill a hole in the tube and let the hose extrude into
the hole when clamped. In any event if using silicone hoses you should
not use conventional hose clamps but rather ones with rolled or rounded
edges and of a design that does not let the gear come in contact with
the hose. Constant tension (spring loaded) clamps are sometimes used as
well.

Ken

Bob Patterson wrote:
Hi Mike !

Cheer up ! If it's any consolation, you're not alone - "been
there, done that" a couple of weeks ago !! :-( Got 4,500+ on
climb, 2,000 fpm this time - yahoo !! Everything looked great
until 2/3 way down downwind, then - poof ! clouds of smoke from
the top of the cowling, then the cockpit filled with it ....
opened the window, tried to hold it open with my elbow to get fresh air.
(Note to self - be sure to build in a good source of fresh air !)

Yet another steepish turn from base to final, lower than I like,
All temps off the end ! Power back, but decide to try to keep it
running until on the ground .... a couple of sputters ...
Got it down and off the runway, shut down & coasted most of the
way back to the hangar. .... Whew ! ....
Exactly the same - tower asking about crash crew - finally 'negative'.
Don't think inhaling all that glycol is good for the lungs !
Yep - blew the coolant hose off the top rear of the engine.
Fortunately, everything has checked out ok - compression still
good, no burned bearings, ... will try again in a few weeks.

I think the word is spreading to towers everywhere - clear space
for V8 Meeseses !!! I think they groan now when I taxi out ! ;-)
Had a long hold while they cleared other traffic before takeoff, but
temps stayed about 200 - great ! Lots of power now !!

Two days flying, 3 emergency landings - up to 1.5 hours now ...

They say "That which doesn't kill you, makes you stronger !" :-)

Sooo .... anxious listeners want to know ... was it a hole in
a piston, or just a plugged vent line ... or ????

PS
If you really want to burn off altitude, use 3 notches of
flap & push !! Get back to 2 notches before landing, though ...
VERY difficult to do a good one with 3 notches !!



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Ken

[rebel-builders] Flight number 3

Post by Ken » Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:20 am

Hi Bob

I used AWAB hose clamps on my silicone hoses - such as part 079-881 from
Spaenaur at about $5. ea. Cheaper clamps with inner shields are also
available but some have sharp edges. Performance auto parts stores and
industrial hose suppliers stock them. Cisco (just N. of the 401 on
Dixie) would stock them I imagine. I have not put safety wire on any
of my clamps because it discourages checking them but they all have
paint marks and none have loosened yet. If they loosen I figured I'd
replace them with the spring loaded constant tension type of clamp.
Hoses tend to vulcanize onto metal which I guess is why the knurling
works. They might have used silicone grease to make the hose easy to
remove which makes a good clamp even more important...

Ken

Bob Patterson wrote:
Thanks Ken !

There might be a fresh air knob - I wasn't familiar enough
with the layout to find it quickly .... until now, it wasn't
high on my priority list ! ;-)

As for how that much steam got in ... we're looking into that,
and likely the fix will involve lots of high-temp silicone !! :-)

I think there IS a bead on the pump outlet fitting on the
engine - but will certainly check. Any sources for rounded-edge
gear clamps ??? Like the idea of simply drilling a couple of
holes !!

This refreshed my memory - a standard part of EVERY preflight
in the old 912 Rebel was using the fuel-checker screwdriver to
check ALL of the gear clamps - every few hours, one would loosen
up a bit ! Guess this will now get added to the V8 Moose preflight !
(Along with checking the injector attach bolts !)





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Bob Patterson

[rebel-builders] Flight number 3

Post by Bob Patterson » Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:20 am

Thanks Ken !

Will pass it along !

--
......bobp
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Friday 27 October 2006 09:09 pm, Ken wrote:
Hi Bob

I used AWAB hose clamps on my silicone hoses - such as part 079-881 from
Spaenaur at about $5. ea. Cheaper clamps with inner shields are also
available but some have sharp edges. Performance auto parts stores and
industrial hose suppliers stock them. Cisco (just N. of the 401 on
Dixie) would stock them I imagine. I have not put safety wire on any
of my clamps because it discourages checking them but they all have
paint marks and none have loosened yet. If they loosen I figured I'd
replace them with the spring loaded constant tension type of clamp.
Hoses tend to vulcanize onto metal which I guess is why the knurling
works. They might have used silicone grease to make the hose easy to
remove which makes a good clamp even more important...

Ken

Bob Patterson wrote:
Thanks Ken !

There might be a fresh air knob - I wasn't familiar enough
with the layout to find it quickly .... until now, it wasn't
high on my priority list ! ;-)

As for how that much steam got in ... we're looking into that,
and likely the fix will involve lots of high-temp silicone !! :-)

I think there IS a bead on the pump outlet fitting on the
engine - but will certainly check. Any sources for rounded-edge
gear clamps ??? Like the idea of simply drilling a couple of
holes !!

This refreshed my memory - a standard part of EVERY preflight
in the old 912 Rebel was using the fuel-checker screwdriver to
check ALL of the gear clamps - every few hours, one would loosen
up a bit ! Guess this will now get added to the V8 Moose preflight !
(Along with checking the injector attach bolts !)


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