[rebel-builders] Fuel plumbing for Andair valve

Ron Shannon · Post by **Ron Shannon** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:56 am

Have you considered the extension rods Andair makes for their valve
selector switches? You could place the selector some distance from the
valve. See http://www.andair.co.uk/system/index.html

Ron
254R

Jesse Jenks wrote:

I am trying to figure out a preliminary plumbing plan for the
between-the-seats area. I want to use an Andair valve. I will have a center
console between the seats to cover the controll cables. At this point I see
2 placement options. One would be horizontally mounted on top of the
console. This may be a tight fit with fuel lines and cables in a 4" wide
console. I will also have the hydraulic pump between the seats aft of the
console. Option 2 is to mount the fuel valve vertically, below the
instrument pannel, on a center pannel that would connect the instrument
pannel with the center console. This would put the valve about 8" off the
floor, come to think of it, either option will raise the valve up from floor
level. So my question is how is this going to effect fuel and water flow in
the lines? I assume with all the head pressure from the wing tanks, the fuel
will not have a problem flowing up hill a bit from the floor before going
forward to the firewall. I will have low point drains between the tanks and
the selector valve, so the vertical section of plumbing shouldn't be a
problem for water draining. Am I right to assume any water forward of the
selector valve will drain forward to the gascolator and be taken care of
there (assuming the line has a down slope as it goes forward)?
Thanks
Jesse

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Ken · Post by **Ken** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:56 am

One consideration might be that inpectors could want a water drain in
EVERY low point of the fuel line which you seem aware of. And not just
water from the fuel tank as they may even be concerned about water
separating out of the fuel in the line and freezing during extended
seasonal parking. Seems unlikely to me but I guess it could cause a
partial blockage. Another is that you should avoid any high points for
air or vapour to collect in and restrict liquid flow. An upslope to the
valve and a downslope to the gascolator could be a problem. Gets more
difficult if you are catering to tailwheel and also floats. And of
course every right angle fitting will reduce the flow a bit.

The simple MAM design has its advantages.

Ken

Jesse Jenks wrote:

I am trying to figure out a preliminary plumbing plan for the
between-the-seats area. I want to use an Andair valve. I will have a center
console between the seats to cover the controll cables. At this point I see
2 placement options. One would be horizontally mounted on top of the
console. This may be a tight fit with fuel lines and cables in a 4" wide
console. I will also have the hydraulic pump between the seats aft of the
console. Option 2 is to mount the fuel valve vertically, below the
instrument pannel, on a center pannel that would connect the instrument
pannel with the center console. This would put the valve about 8" off the
floor, come to think of it, either option will raise the valve up from floor
level. So my question is how is this going to effect fuel and water flow in
the lines? I assume with all the head pressure from the wing tanks, the fuel
will not have a problem flowing up hill a bit from the floor before going
forward to the firewall. I will have low point drains between the tanks and
the selector valve, so the vertical section of plumbing shouldn't be a
problem for water draining. Am I right to assume any water forward of the
selector valve will drain forward to the gascolator and be taken care of
there (assuming the line has a down slope as it goes forward)?
Thanks
Jesse

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Jesse Jenks · Post by **Jesse Jenks** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:56 am

Thanks Ron & Ken,
I have considered the extension, I just wanted to save the extra $100. and I
was hesitant to add more possible failure points to the valve. It sounds
like that might be the best option though if I do end up using the Andair.
My reasons for wanting to use it are; A) putting the selector in front of
you where it will be in your scan. B) Having a fuel shutoff closer to the
firewall in case of engine fire. C) It looks cool.
Practicality may win out, but I haven't given up yet.
Jesse

Have you considered the extension rods Andair makes for their valve
selector switches? You could place the selector some distance from the
valve. See http://www.andair.co.uk/system/index.html

Ron
254R

From: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Fuel plumbing for Andair valve
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 22:32:15 -0400

One consideration might be that inpectors could want a water drain in
EVERY low point of the fuel line which you seem aware of. And not just
water from the fuel tank as they may even be concerned about water
separating out of the fuel in the line and freezing during extended
seasonal parking. Seems unlikely to me but I guess it could cause a
partial blockage. Another is that you should avoid any high points for
air or vapour to collect in and restrict liquid flow. An upslope to the
valve and a downslope to the gascolator could be a problem. Gets more
difficult if you are catering to tailwheel and also floats. And of
course every right angle fitting will reduce the flow a bit.

The simple MAM design has its advantages.

Ken

Jesse Jenks wrote:

I am trying to figure out a preliminary plumbing plan for the
between-the-seats area. I want to use an Andair valve. I will have a
center
console between the seats to cover the controll cables. At this point I
see
2 placement options. One would be horizontally mounted on top of the
console. This may be a tight fit with fuel lines and cables in a 4" wide
console. I will also have the hydraulic pump between the seats aft of the
console. Option 2 is to mount the fuel valve vertically, below the
instrument pannel, on a center pannel that would connect the instrument
pannel with the center console. This would put the valve about 8" off the
floor, come to think of it, either option will raise the valve up from
floor
level. So my question is how is this going to effect fuel and water flow
in
the lines? I assume with all the head pressure from the wing tanks, the
fuel
will not have a problem flowing up hill a bit from the floor before going
forward to the firewall. I will have low point drains between the tanks
and
the selector valve, so the vertical section of plumbing shouldn't be a
problem for water draining. Am I right to assume any water forward of the
selector valve will drain forward to the gascolator and be taken care of
there (assuming the line has a down slope as it goes forward)?
Thanks
Jesse

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lawsondj · Post by **lawsondj** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:56 am

Jesse,
I have just finished installing an Andair fuel valve, without extension shaft, in the floor between the front seats, forward of the flap handle. I made a support web of 0.040" steel to position the valve just under a short section of the 9" wide center floor panel. The support web allows you to get under the valve to wrench on the valve connections. Since the valve handle and escutcheon plate are mounted at floor level, I've added a 4x4x2" hinged box over the handle to keep the shoes and coffee out of the valve area. The box has a plexiglass lid to view the handle/valve positions. I'll email you a couple of pics if you like.

Jack Joos, SR193

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Jesse Jenks" <jessejenks@hotmail.com>

Thanks Ron & Ken,
I have considered the extension, I just wanted to save the extra $100. and I
was hesitant to add more possible failure points to the valve. It sounds
like that might be the best option though if I do end up using the Andair.
My reasons for wanting to use it are; A) putting the selector in front of
you where it will be in your scan. B) Having a fuel shutoff closer to the
firewall in case of engine fire. C) It looks cool.
Practicality may win out, but I haven't given up yet.
Jesse

Have you considered the extension rods Andair makes for their valve
selector switches? You could place the selector some distance from the
valve. See http://www.andair.co.uk/system/index.html

Ron
254R

From: Ken
Reply-To:
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Fuel plumbing for Andair valve
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 22:32:15 -0400

One consideration might be that inpectors could want a water drain in
EVERY low point of the fuel line which you seem aware of. And not just
water from the fuel tank as they may even be concerned about water
separating out of the fuel in the line and freezing during extended
seasonal parking. Seems unlikely to me but I guess it could cause a
partial blockage. Another is that you should avoid any high points for
air or vapour to collect in and restrict liquid flow. An upslope to the
valve and a downslope to the gascolator could be a problem. Gets more
difficult if you are catering to tailwheel and also floats. And of
course every right angle fitting will reduce the flow a bit.

The simple MAM design has its advantages.

Ken

Jesse Jenks wrote:

I am trying to figure out a preliminary plumbing plan for the
between-the-seats area. I want to use an Andair valve. I will have a
center
console between the seats to cover the controll cables. At this point I
see
2 placement options. One would be horizontally mounted on top of the
console. This may be a tight fit with fuel lines and cables in a 4" wide
console. I will also have the hydraulic pump between the seats aft of the
console. Option 2 is to mount the fuel valve vertically, below the
instrument pannel, on a center pannel that would connect the instrument
pannel with the center console. This would put the valve about 8" off the
floor, come to think of it, either option will raise the valve up from
floor
level. So my question is how is this going to effect fuel and water flow
in
the lines? I assume with all the head pressure from the wing tanks, the
fuel
will not have a problem flowing up hill a bit from the floor before going
forward to the firewall. I will have low point drains between the tanks
and
the selector valve, so the vertical section of plumbing shouldn't be a
problem for water draining. Am I right to assume any water forward of the
selector valve will drain forward to the gascolator and be taken care of
there (assuming the line has a down slope as it goes forward)?
Thanks
Jesse

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Jesse Jenks · Post by **Jesse Jenks** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:56 am

Jack,
I would love to see some pics. Post them to the archives if you can.
The Rebel floor is only 2" deep. I think the SR has more room under the
floor, but I would like to see your installation anyway. I have sprouted
many ideas already from looking at Moose and SR construction pics.
Thanks.
Jesse

From: lawsondj@comcast.net
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Fuel plumbing for Andair valve
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 00:49:16 +0000

Jesse,
I have just finished installing an Andair fuel valve, without extension
shaft, in the floor between the front seats, forward of the flap handle. I
made a support web of 0.040" steel to position the valve just under a short
section of the 9" wide center floor panel. The support web allows you to
get under the valve to wrench on the valve connections. Since the valve
handle and escutcheon plate are mounted at floor level, I've added a 4x4x2"
hinged box over the handle to keep the shoes and coffee out of the valve
area. The box has a plexiglass lid to view the handle/valve positions. I'll
email you a couple of pics if you like.

Jack Joos, SR193

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Jesse Jenks" <jessejenks@hotmail.com>

Thanks Ron & Ken,
I have considered the extension, I just wanted to save the extra $100.
and I
was hesitant to add more possible failure points to the valve. It sounds
like that might be the best option though if I do end up using the
Andair.
My reasons for wanting to use it are; A) putting the selector in front
of
you where it will be in your scan. B) Having a fuel shutoff closer to
the
firewall in case of engine fire. C) It looks cool.
Practicality may win out, but I haven't given up yet.
Jesse

Have you considered the extension rods Andair makes for their valve
selector switches? You could place the selector some distance from the
valve. See http://www.andair.co.uk/system/index.html

Ron
254R

From: Ken
Reply-To:
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Fuel plumbing for Andair valve
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 22:32:15 -0400

One consideration might be that inpectors could want a water drain in
EVERY low point of the fuel line which you seem aware of. And not just
water from the fuel tank as they may even be concerned about water
separating out of the fuel in the line and freezing during extended
seasonal parking. Seems unlikely to me but I guess it could cause a
partial blockage. Another is that you should avoid any high points for
air or vapour to collect in and restrict liquid flow. An upslope to the
valve and a downslope to the gascolator could be a problem. Gets more
difficult if you are catering to tailwheel and also floats. And of
course every right angle fitting will reduce the flow a bit.

The simple MAM design has its advantages.

Ken

Jesse Jenks wrote:
center
I
see
wide
the
instrument
the
from
floor
flow
in
the
fuel
going
tanks
and
a
the
of

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lawsondj · Post by **lawsondj** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:57 am

Jesse,
It's difficult to do anything under the floor if there is only a 2" space. The SR/Moose has 6"under the floor. For info I have posted 5 pics of the Andair fuel valve installation in the SR/Moose section, file 113 S/M Fuel Systems.The input lines to the valve are 3/8" tubing and the Andair output line is 1/2". I have yet to add the fuel boost pump. Trying to decide where to put it, ie, in the cabin or on the firewall.

Jack Joos, SR193

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Jesse Jenks" <jessejenks@hotmail.com>

Jack,
I would love to see some pics. Post them to the archives if you can.
The Rebel floor is only 2" deep. I think the SR has more room under the
floor, but I would like to see your installation anyway. I have sprouted
many ideas already from looking at Moose and SR construction pics.
Thanks.
Jesse

From: lawsondj@comcast.net
Reply-To:
To:
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Fuel plumbing for Andair valve
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 00:49:16 +0000

Jesse,
I have just finished installing an Andair fuel valve, without extension
shaft, in the floor between the front seats, forward of the flap handle. I
made a support web of 0.040" steel to position the valve just under a short
section of the 9" wide center floor panel. The support web allows you to
get under the valve to wrench on the valve connections. Since the valve
handle and escutcheon plate are mounted at floor level, I've added a 4x4x2"
hinged box over the handle to keep the shoes and coffee out of the valve
area. The box has a plexiglass lid to view the handle/valve positions. I'll
email you a couple of pics if you like.

Jack Joos, SR193

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Jesse Jenks"

Thanks Ron & Ken,
I have considered the extension, I just wanted to save the extra $100.
and I
was hesitant to add more possible failure points to the valve. It sounds
like that might be the best option though if I do end up using the
Andair.
My reasons for wanting to use it are; A) putting the selector in front
of
you where it will be in your scan. B) Having a fuel shutoff closer to
the
firewall in case of engine fire. C) It looks cool.
Practicality may win out, but I haven't given up yet.
Jesse

Have you considered the extension rods Andair makes for their valve
selector switches? You could place the selector some distance from the
valve. See http://www.andair.co.uk/system/index.html

Ron
254R

I
wide
the
instrument
the
from
flow
the
going
tanks
a
the
of

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Jesse Jenks · Post by **Jesse Jenks** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:57 am

Thanks for the pics Jack.

From: lawsondj@comcast.net
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Fuel plumbing for Andair valve
Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2006 21:31:03 +0000

Jesse,
It's difficult to do anything under the floor if there is only a 2" space.
The SR/Moose has 6"under the floor. For info I have posted 5 pics of the
Andair fuel valve installation in the SR/Moose section, file 113 S/M Fuel
Systems.The input lines to the valve are 3/8" tubing and the Andair output
line is 1/2". I have yet to add the fuel boost pump. Trying to decide where
to put it, ie, in the cabin or on the firewall.

Jack Joos, SR193

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Jesse Jenks" <jessejenks@hotmail.com>

Jack,
I would love to see some pics. Post them to the archives if you can.
The Rebel floor is only 2" deep. I think the SR has more room under the
floor, but I would like to see your installation anyway. I have sprouted
many ideas already from looking at Moose and SR construction pics.
Thanks.
Jesse

From: lawsondj@comcast.net
Reply-To:
To:
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Fuel plumbing for Andair valve
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 00:49:16 +0000

Jesse,
I have just finished installing an Andair fuel valve, without extension
shaft, in the floor between the front seats, forward of the flap
handle. I
made a support web of 0.040" steel to position the valve just under a
short
section of the 9" wide center floor panel. The support web allows you
to
get under the valve to wrench on the valve connections. Since the valve
handle and escutcheon plate are mounted at floor level, I've added a
4x4x2"
hinged box over the handle to keep the shoes and coffee out of the
valve
area. The box has a plexiglass lid to view the handle/valve positions.
I'll
email you a couple of pics if you like.

Jack Joos, SR193

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Jesse Jenks"

$100.
and I
sounds
Andair.
front
of
to
the
the
in
just
for
the
more
have a
point
I
the
4"
wide
aft of
the
the
instrument
off
the from
water
flow
tanks,
the
before
going tanks
be
a
forward of
the
care
of
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Dale Fultz · Post by **Dale Fultz** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:57 am

Jack,,, I kinda did a similar installation (I used a Cessna control valve
not real large would probably fit in a 2 inch area) on my MOOSE. I went
from the control in the center to the large area on the right under the seat
put the drains system next and then put the boost pump went up to the
firewall from there. Lots of room and was out of the heat from the firewall
area. Can post photos if you are interested.. Dale SR=033
----- Original Message -----

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lawsondj · Post by **lawsondj** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:59 am

Thanks Dale, the photos would be appreciated.
Jack

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Dale Fultz" <dfultz17086@earthlink.net>

Jack,,, I kinda did a similar installation (I used a Cessna control valve
not real large would probably fit in a 2 inch area) on my MOOSE. I went
from the control in the center to the large area on the right under the seat
put the drains system next and then put the boost pump went up to the
firewall from there. Lots of room and was out of the heat from the firewall
area. Can post photos if you are interested.. Dale SR=033
----- Original Message -----

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