question from interested audience member

Louis & Kathy Young · Post by **Louis & Kathy Young** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:47 pm

I am interested in hearing from folks who have used Rebels as a "lite" 4
place plane... Who of you folks have installed jump seats or "kiddie" seats
in you Rebel or Elite ? How useful have these proven to be in the role of
family cruiser ??

Do what sort of loading and cg problems have you run into..... ??

Sincerely,

(poor, poor, father of two...) Louis Young

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Louis & Kathy Young · Post by **Louis & Kathy Young** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:47 pm

Thanks Bob.... I need all the info I can get !

Louis & Kathy Young
www.justplanevideos.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patterson [mailto:bob.patterson@canrem.com]
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2000 7:46 PM
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List
Subject: Re: question from interested audience member

Since nobody else is jumping in ....

We only have one extra seat in the back of both our Rebels -
I know one was flown with the 3rd passenger lying down in the back,
sleeping !!

The Rebel is a little short of leg room in the back, but OK for
kids. One builder has removable cloth sling seats facing backward.
This gives lots of leg & head room, moves the weight forward a bit,
and can be easily removed to allow sleeping in the back - a great
solution !
The factory assisted with the extra brackets he mounted in the wing
roots to support the top tube for the sling.

Some builders have welded up small folding seats, while others
have just used the standard seats, and extended the seat rails. I know
of at least 2 Rebels that have flown often with 4 adults (and partial
fuel), with only Lycoming O-235's, and our 912 has flown 3 on occasion.
Carrying extra people is certainly possible, and makes the Rebel more
useful.

You will not likely get any feedback on the Elite, as there
are only 2 of them flying, one on amphibs, and the other is the factory
taildragger....

.....bobp

How about some info on yours, Wayne ?? Had anybody else in back

other than the kids ???

------------------------------orig.-----------------------------------
At 10:45 PM 5/10/00 -0500, you wrote:
I am interested in hearing from folks who have used Rebels as a "lite" 4
place plane... Who of you folks have installed jump seats or
"kiddie" seats
in you Rebel or Elite ? How useful have these proven to be in
the role of
family cruiser ??

Do what sort of loading and cg problems have you run into..... ??

Sincerely,

(poor, poor, father of two...) Louis Young

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Bob Patterson · Post by **Bob Patterson** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:47 pm

Since nobody else is jumping in ....

We only have one extra seat in the back of both our Rebels -
I know one was flown with the 3rd passenger lying down in the back,
sleeping !!

The Rebel is a little short of leg room in the back, but OK for
kids. One builder has removable cloth sling seats facing backward.
This gives lots of leg & head room, moves the weight forward a bit,
and can be easily removed to allow sleeping in the back - a great solution !
The factory assisted with the extra brackets he mounted in the wing
roots to support the top tube for the sling.

Some builders have welded up small folding seats, while others
have just used the standard seats, and extended the seat rails. I know
of at least 2 Rebels that have flown often with 4 adults (and partial
fuel), with only Lycoming O-235's, and our 912 has flown 3 on occasion.
Carrying extra people is certainly possible, and makes the Rebel more
useful.

You will not likely get any feedback on the Elite, as there
are only 2 of them flying, one on amphibs, and the other is the factory
taildragger....

.....bobp

How about some info on yours, Wayne ?? Had anybody else in back
other than the kids ???

------------------------------orig.-----------------------------------
At 10:45 PM 5/10/00 -0500, you wrote:

I am interested in hearing from folks who have used Rebels as a "lite" 4
place plane... Who of you folks have installed jump seats or "kiddie" seats
in you Rebel or Elite ? How useful have these proven to be in the role of
family cruiser ??

Do what sort of loading and cg problems have you run into..... ??

Sincerely,

(poor, poor, father of two...) Louis Young

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Wayne G. O'Shea · Post by **Wayne G. O'Shea** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:47 pm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Your following message has been delivered to the 154 members of
the list murphy-rebel@dcsol.com at 23:45:18 on 12 May 2000.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Good thing we are not talking about the 6' long back seat in my '69 Dodge!

Mine has 2 normal Rebel seats (tracks and all) in the back. I did the
original weight and balance for two "winter" women in the back (you know the
ones with a little more meat on them, so more comfortable to "cuddle" with!)
In reality, I have only carried the kids back there though and it has worked
great. They have lots of leg room when the pilot seats are in flying
position and the back seats are moved up so their buts are on the 43" aft of
datum line. I could sit in the back seat before I had them upholstered (I'M
5' 10"). I found there best use was the trip to Oshkosh '95 when we had our
tents, sleeping bags, gear etc. piled up to the torque tube. We put the
seats to the back of their travel and just loaded the thing to the roof. The
seat backs kept things from going down the tailcone As a matter of fact, we
had it so loaded that we could not slide our seats back out of the flying
position to aid in getting out!! With that load in it, it was the smoothest
the thing ever flew!

Blue skies,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

P.S. Weather's not looking great for tomorrow Bob! 40Km winds, gusting 60.

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Friday, May 12, 2000 8:46 PM
Subject: Re: question from interested audience member

How about some info on yours, Wayne ?? Had anybody else in back
other than the kids ???

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Louis & Kathy Young · Post by **Louis & Kathy Young** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:47 pm

Amen on the winter women.... I am blessed also ! ( No offence skinny
ladies, just a personal preference, There is beauty in all godly
women....and several that AINT so godly..)

I am a bit confused as to how the FAA decided on a standard weight adult..
Heck, I have not weighed 170 since 8th grade... It is good to know that you
have a rather wide cg range in the A/C also..... I must admit that I dream
of a o-320 on the front of the one in my long range plan....that should have
plenty of torque to lift us all off in short order....

One of the things that impressed my bride at Sun-n-Fun was the huge amount
of room in the back of the elite when I pulled the seat up to check out the
rudder.... I know the elite is somewhat wider, but otherwise is it about the
same back there ??

Thank you for the good info..... I look forward to hearing from other folks
too !

Louis Young
www.justplanevideos.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne G. O'Shea [mailto:oifa@irishfield.on.ca]
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2000 10:40 PM
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List
Subject: Re: question from interested audience member

Good thing we are not talking about the 6' long back seat in my '69 Dodge!

Mine has 2 normal Rebel seats (tracks and all) in the back. I did the
original weight and balance for two "winter" women in the back
(you know the
ones with a little more meat on them, so more comfortable to
"cuddle" with!)
In reality, I have only carried the kids back there though and it
has worked
great. They have lots of leg room when the pilot seats are in flying
position and the back seats are moved up so their buts are on the
43" aft of
datum line. I could sit in the back seat before I had them
upholstered (I'M
5' 10"). I found there best use was the trip to Oshkosh '95 when
we had our
tents, sleeping bags, gear etc. piled up to the torque tube. We put the
seats to the back of their travel and just loaded the thing to
the roof. The
seat backs kept things from going down the tailcone As a matter
of fact, we
had it so loaded that we could not slide our seats back out of the flying
position to aid in getting out!! With that load in it, it was the
smoothest
the thing ever flew!

Blue skies,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

P.S. Weather's not looking great for tomorrow Bob! 40Km winds, gusting 60.

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Friday, May 12, 2000 8:46 PM
Subject: Re: question from interested audience member

How about some info on yours, Wayne ?? Had anybody else in back
other than the kids ???
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Bob Patterson · Post by **Bob Patterson** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:47 pm

Don't know where these stories come from, but the Rebel is exactly
the SAME WIDTH inside as the Elite, and the Super Rebel... -------

The Elite is a few inches higher in back, but is less suitable
for 2 extra seats, because it is heavier and has less useful load -
the Elite you looked in weighs 1,100 lb ! The Rebel typically runs
915 to 950 lb. as a taildragger with O-320, 815-850 with an O-235,
and 600-720 with a 912. One extra seat is what the factory suggests,
for both aircraft (one adult...).

It is not uncommon to see Rebels with placards in the baggage
area saying "Max. baggage 320 lb." ! This was a real surprise for
the inspectors, who usually see aircraft with 20 to 40 lb. limits. :-)

.....bobp

------------------------------orig.----------------------------------------
At 01:30 AM 5/13/00 -0500, you wrote:

Amen on the winter women.... I am blessed also ! ( No offence skinny
ladies, just a personal preference, There is beauty in all godly
women....and several that AINT so godly..)

I am a bit confused as to how the FAA decided on a standard weight adult..
Heck, I have not weighed 170 since 8th grade... It is good to know that you
have a rather wide cg range in the A/C also..... I must admit that I dream
of a o-320 on the front of the one in my long range plan....that should have
plenty of torque to lift us all off in short order....

One of the things that impressed my bride at Sun-n-Fun was the huge amount
of room in the back of the elite when I pulled the seat up to check out the
rudder.... I know the elite is somewhat wider, but otherwise is it about the
same back there ??

Thank you for the good info..... I look forward to hearing from other folks
too !

Louis Young
www.justplanevideos.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne G. O'Shea [mailto:oifa@irishfield.on.ca]
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2000 10:40 PM
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List
Subject: Re: question from interested audience member

Good thing we are not talking about the 6' long back seat in my '69 Dodge!

Mine has 2 normal Rebel seats (tracks and all) in the back. I did the
original weight and balance for two "winter" women in the back
(you know the
ones with a little more meat on them, so more comfortable to
"cuddle" with!)
In reality, I have only carried the kids back there though and it
has worked
great. They have lots of leg room when the pilot seats are in flying
position and the back seats are moved up so their buts are on the
43" aft of
datum line. I could sit in the back seat before I had them
upholstered (I'M
5' 10"). I found there best use was the trip to Oshkosh '95 when
we had our
tents, sleeping bags, gear etc. piled up to the torque tube. We put the
seats to the back of their travel and just loaded the thing to
the roof. The
seat backs kept things from going down the tailcone As a matter
of fact, we
had it so loaded that we could not slide our seats back out of the flying
position to aid in getting out!! With that load in it, it was the
smoothest
the thing ever flew!

Blue skies,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

P.S. Weather's not looking great for tomorrow Bob! 40Km winds, gusting 60.

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Friday, May 12, 2000 8:46 PM
Subject: Re: question from interested audience member

other than the kids ???
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Bob Patterson · Post by **Bob Patterson** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:47 pm

..... I had this '61 Pontiac ....... ;-) (back to the present..)

Our back seat cushions come up front to boost Anna for the trip
to Oshkosh, but the "curtain" keeps the baggage in place (with a little
help from 2 extra long bungee cords tied to the lawn chairs on top :-) )

The 'curtain' is actually a piece of Naugahyde with the Rebel
logo embroidered on, with a half/inch of foam sewn on the back for
stiffness & warmth, & noise reduction. It is help on by Velcro all around
the edges, which fastens to an extra 1" lip of aluminum added to the
front of the bulkhead at the rear of the baggage area. The Velcro grabs
the carpet on the bottom nicely. These are the most popular way to close in
the baggage area, while leaving the tail easily accessable for sleeping.

We also fill the back right up to the top, and <sometimes>
can even move our seats back ONE notch to get out !! :-) The Rebel
DOES fly very nicely when loaded like this !

...bobp

-------------------------------orig.---------------------------------------
At 11:40 PM 5/12/00 -0400, you wrote:

Good thing we are not talking about the 6' long back seat in my '69 Dodge!

Mine has 2 normal Rebel seats (tracks and all) in the back. I did the
original weight and balance for two "winter" women in the back (you know the
ones with a little more meat on them, so more comfortable to "cuddle" with!)
In reality, I have only carried the kids back there though and it has worked
great. They have lots of leg room when the pilot seats are in flying
position and the back seats are moved up so their buts are on the 43" aft of
datum line. I could sit in the back seat before I had them upholstered (I'M
5' 10"). I found there best use was the trip to Oshkosh '95 when we had our
tents, sleeping bags, gear etc. piled up to the torque tube. We put the
seats to the back of their travel and just loaded the thing to the roof. The
seat backs kept things from going down the tailcone As a matter of fact, we
had it so loaded that we could not slide our seats back out of the flying
position to aid in getting out!! With that load in it, it was the smoothest
the thing ever flew!

Blue skies,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

P.S. Weather's not looking great for tomorrow Bob! 40Km winds, gusting 60.

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Friday, May 12, 2000 8:46 PM
Subject: Re: question from interested audience member

How about some info on yours, Wayne ?? Had anybody else in back
other than the kids ???
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Wayne G. O'Shea · Post by **Wayne G. O'Shea** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:47 pm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Your following message has been delivered to the 155 members of
the list murphy-rebel@dcsol.com at 10:49:57 on 13 May 2000.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I still have the '69 Dodge and the same Women!!!!!!!!!

My tail cone "curtain" is one bulkhead further back that most peoples due to
the 2 extra seats in the back. Fastened by 1" wide Velcro all the wayaround.
The Rebel is one noisy tin can if taxi'd or flown without this curtain in
place!

Blue skies, (hopefully some day)
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Saturday, May 13, 2000 9:47 AM
Subject: Re: question from interested audience member

..... I had this '61 Pontiac ....... ;-) (back to the

present..)

Our back seat cushions come up front to boost Anna for the trip
to Oshkosh, but the "curtain" keeps the baggage in place (with a little
help from 2 extra long bungee cords tied to the lawn chairs on top :-) )

The 'curtain' is actually a piece of Naugahyde with the Rebel
logo embroidered on, with a half/inch of foam sewn on the back for
stiffness & warmth, & noise reduction. It is help on by Velcro all around
the edges, which fastens to an extra 1" lip of aluminum added to the
front of the bulkhead at the rear of the baggage area. The Velcro grabs
the carpet on the bottom nicely. These are the most popular way to close in
the baggage area, while leaving the tail easily accessable for sleeping.

We also fill the back right up to the top, and <sometimes>
can even move our seats back ONE notch to get out !! :-) The Rebel
DOES fly very nicely when loaded like this !

...bobp

-------------------------------orig.---------------------------------------
At 11:40 PM 5/12/00 -0400, you wrote:
Good thing we are not talking about the 6' long back seat in my '69 Dodge!

Mine has 2 normal Rebel seats (tracks and all) in the back. I did the
original weight and balance for two "winter" women in the back (you know

the

ones with a little more meat on them, so more comfortable to "cuddle"

with!)

In reality, I have only carried the kids back there though and it has

worked

great. They have lots of leg room when the pilot seats are in flying
position and the back seats are moved up so their buts are on the 43" aft

of

datum line. I could sit in the back seat before I had them upholstered

(I'M

5' 10"). I found there best use was the trip to Oshkosh '95 when we had

our

tents, sleeping bags, gear etc. piled up to the torque tube. We put the
seats to the back of their travel and just loaded the thing to the roof.

The

seat backs kept things from going down the tailcone As a matter of fact,

we

had it so loaded that we could not slide our seats back out of the flying
position to aid in getting out!! With that load in it, it was the

smoothest

the thing ever flew!

Blue skies,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

P.S. Weather's not looking great for tomorrow Bob! 40Km winds, gusting 60.

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Friday, May 12, 2000 8:46 PM
Subject: Re: question from interested audience member

other than the kids ???
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Bob Patterson · Post by **Bob Patterson** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:47 pm

Women ??!! You're allowed more than one ??!!! ;-) (gee, I'm NOT !)
== ===

You missed a good meeting today, but you were very wise not
to fly !! The winds got VERY nasty in the afternoon. Everybody
DROVE in !!

Maybe you can fly down & camp for the Ramble Kick-Off Party on
Friday, July 7th .... and maybe fly along as far as Gore Bay or
Ashland,WI, or Winnipeg, or Calgary ... !! :-)

....bobp

----------------------------orig.---------------------------------------
At 10:45 AM 5/13/00 -0400, you wrote:

I still have the '69 Dodge and the same Women!!!!!!!!!

My tail cone "curtain" is one bulkhead further back that most peoples due to
the 2 extra seats in the back. Fastened by 1" wide Velcro all the wayaround.
The Rebel is one noisy tin can if taxi'd or flown without this curtain in
place!

Blue skies, (hopefully some day)
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Saturday, May 13, 2000 9:47 AM
Subject: Re: question from interested audience member

..... I had this '61 Pontiac ....... ;-) (back to the
present..)
Our back seat cushions come up front to boost Anna for the trip
to Oshkosh, but the "curtain" keeps the baggage in place (with a little
help from 2 extra long bungee cords tied to the lawn chairs on top :-) )

The 'curtain' is actually a piece of Naugahyde with the Rebel
logo embroidered on, with a half/inch of foam sewn on the back for
stiffness & warmth, & noise reduction. It is help on by Velcro all around
the edges, which fastens to an extra 1" lip of aluminum added to the
front of the bulkhead at the rear of the baggage area. The Velcro grabs
the carpet on the bottom nicely. These are the most popular way to close in
the baggage area, while leaving the tail easily accessable for sleeping.

We also fill the back right up to the top, and <sometimes>
can even move our seats back ONE notch to get out !! :-) The Rebel
DOES fly very nicely when loaded like this !

...bobp

-------------------------------orig.---------------------------------------
At 11:40 PM 5/12/00 -0400, you wrote:
Good thing we are not talking about the 6' long back seat in my '69 Dodge!

Mine has 2 normal Rebel seats (tracks and all) in the back. I did the
original weight and balance for two "winter" women in the back (you know
the
ones with a little more meat on them, so more comfortable to "cuddle"
with!)
In reality, I have only carried the kids back there though and it has
worked
great. They have lots of leg room when the pilot seats are in flying
position and the back seats are moved up so their buts are on the 43" aft
of
datum line. I could sit in the back seat before I had them upholstered
(I'M
5' 10"). I found there best use was the trip to Oshkosh '95 when we had
our
tents, sleeping bags, gear etc. piled up to the torque tube. We put the
seats to the back of their travel and just loaded the thing to the roof.
The
seat backs kept things from going down the tailcone As a matter of fact,
we
had it so loaded that we could not slide our seats back out of the flying
position to aid in getting out!! With that load in it, it was the
smoothest
the thing ever flew!

Blue skies,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

P.S. Weather's not looking great for tomorrow Bob! 40Km winds, gusting 60.

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Friday, May 12, 2000 8:46 PM
Subject: Re: question from interested audience member

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Wayne G. O'Shea · Post by **Wayne G. O'Shea** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:47 pm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Your following message has been delivered to the 154 members of
the list murphy-rebel@dcsol.com at 10:30:47 on 14 May 2000.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'll be busy getting all my planes, RV, some inventory etc. for my vendor
booth, to Midland Airport for the 4th Annual Northern Regional Fly-in July
8th and 9th, Sorry! For all those out there within flying (driving) distance
that are not going on the Ramble, this will be a good flyin to attend! The
airport commission has joined in this year to celebrate the new "millenium"
(god I was hoping I would never see that word again) and has paid to have
War Plane Heritage bring up the Dakota and is inviting all area "collectors"
to bring out their warbirds, historical aircraft etc. The flyin itself has
attracted up to 100 planes each year from all over Ontario and Quebec and
you are sure to see some interesting types. Seminars, workshops, vendor
booths, flymarket, FREE admission, FREE camping, FREE Saturday night social,
Saturday evening flour bombing contest, etc. etc.

If you know anybody with a historical aircraft (or any plane of high
interest to most) please contact John O'Hara at CYEE 705-526-8086. The
airport commission will pay their fuel to attend and go home!

Hope to see all you unlucky ones (that can't Ramble) there,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Saturday, May 13, 2000 11:12 PM
Subject: Re: question from interested audience member

Women ??!! You're allowed more than one ??!!! ;-) (gee, I'm NOT

!)

== ===

You missed a good meeting today, but you were very wise not
to fly !! The winds got VERY nasty in the afternoon. Everybody
DROVE in !!

Maybe you can fly down & camp for the Ramble Kick-Off Party on
Friday, July 7th .... and maybe fly along as far as Gore Bay or
Ashland,WI, or Winnipeg, or Calgary ... !! :-)

....bobp

----------------------------orig.---------------------------------------
At 10:45 AM 5/13/00 -0400, you wrote:
I still have the '69 Dodge and the same Women!!!!!!!!!

My tail cone "curtain" is one bulkhead further back that most peoples due

to

the 2 extra seats in the back. Fastened by 1" wide Velcro all the

wayaround.

The Rebel is one noisy tin can if taxi'd or flown without this curtain in
place!

Blue skies, (hopefully some day)
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Saturday, May 13, 2000 9:47 AM
Subject: Re: question from interested audience member

..... I had this '61 Pontiac ....... ;-) (back to the
present..)
Our back seat cushions come up front to boost Anna for the trip
to Oshkosh, but the "curtain" keeps the baggage in place (with a little
help from 2 extra long bungee cords tied to the lawn chairs on top :-) )

The 'curtain' is actually a piece of Naugahyde with the Rebel
logo embroidered on, with a half/inch of foam sewn on the back for
stiffness & warmth, & noise reduction. It is help on by Velcro all around
the edges, which fastens to an extra 1" lip of aluminum added to the
front of the bulkhead at the rear of the baggage area. The Velcro grabs
the carpet on the bottom nicely. These are the most popular way to close

in

the baggage area, while leaving the tail easily accessable for sleeping.

We also fill the back right up to the top, and <sometimes>
can even move our seats back ONE notch to get out !! :-) The Rebel
DOES fly very nicely when loaded like this !

...bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------------------

--

At 11:40 PM 5/12/00 -0400, you wrote:

Dodge!

the
with!)
worked

aft

of
(I'M
our
The
we

flying

smoothest

60.

--

-
---------*

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Archives located at:
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Bob Patterson · Post by **Bob Patterson** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:47 pm

The timing really is unfortunate - we enjoy that fly-in !! Maybe the
Ramblers might be there, if the weather's not good enough to let us
get out of the country !!

....bobp

------------------------------orig.-----------------------------------
At 10:25 AM 5/14/00 -0400, you wrote:

I'll be busy getting all my planes, RV, some inventory etc. for my vendor
booth, to Midland Airport for the 4th Annual Northern Regional Fly-in July
8th and 9th, Sorry! For all those out there within flying (driving) distance
that are not going on the Ramble, this will be a good flyin to attend! The
airport commission has joined in this year to celebrate the new "millenium"
(god I was hoping I would never see that word again) and has paid to have
War Plane Heritage bring up the Dakota and is inviting all area "collectors"
to bring out their warbirds, historical aircraft etc. The flyin itself has
attracted up to 100 planes each year from all over Ontario and Quebec and
you are sure to see some interesting types. Seminars, workshops, vendor
booths, flymarket, FREE admission, FREE camping, FREE Saturday night social,
Saturday evening flour bombing contest, etc. etc.

If you know anybody with a historical aircraft (or any plane of high
interest to most) please contact John O'Hara at CYEE 705-526-8086. The
airport commission will pay their fuel to attend and go home!

Hope to see all you unlucky ones (that can't Ramble) there,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Saturday, May 13, 2000 11:12 PM
Subject: Re: question from interested audience member

Women ??!! You're allowed more than one ??!!! ;-) (gee, I'm NOT
!)
== ===

You missed a good meeting today, but you were very wise not
to fly !! The winds got VERY nasty in the afternoon. Everybody
DROVE in !!

Maybe you can fly down & camp for the Ramble Kick-Off Party on
Friday, July 7th .... and maybe fly along as far as Gore Bay or
Ashland,WI, or Winnipeg, or Calgary ... !! :-)

....bobp

----------------------------orig.---------------------------------------
At 10:45 AM 5/13/00 -0400, you wrote:
I still have the '69 Dodge and the same Women!!!!!!!!!

My tail cone "curtain" is one bulkhead further back that most peoples due
to
the 2 extra seats in the back. Fastened by 1" wide Velcro all the
wayaround.
The Rebel is one noisy tin can if taxi'd or flown without this curtain in
place!

Blue skies, (hopefully some day)
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Saturday, May 13, 2000 9:47 AM
Subject: Re: question from interested audience member

present..)
in
--
Dodge!
the with!) worked
aft
of (I'M our The we
flying
smoothest
60.
--
-
--
-
--
---------*
--
---------*

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Charles Skorupa · Post by **Charles Skorupa** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:47 pm

I think the Elite comparison is unfair. The factory Elite has an 0-360, a
fiberglass inner liner, fancy upholstery and is loaded with electronics. It
is a show plane. Murphy's spec sheets show an identical weight for an 0-320
Rebel and an 0-320 Elite taildragger at 950 lb. The Elite has an 1800 lb
gross weight vs 1650 lb for the Rebel. Realistically, the empty weight
should be somewhat more than the empty wt of a Rebel due to increased
thickness of the LE skins (.032 vs .020=est +12 lb), thicker door wraps (est
+3 lb), perhaps a somewhat heavier empennage due to the cantilever
construction (est +4 lb), and larger fuselage (est +4 lb). The Elite comes
standard with the firewall moved back, but I won't subtract the weight. The
Elite also has features standard that are extra on the Rebel. My particular
plane will not have the heavier metal control surfaces. In every area
where weight has been added, it is more than offset by the improvements in
strength, ease of construction, size, and aerodynamic performance. So, for
about a 25 lb increase in empty weight for my taildragger Elite over a
comparable Rebel, I should pick up and EXTRA 125 lb in useful payload
capacity over a comparably equipped Rebel. Even with the metal control
surfaces, there should be an increase in payload. How could an extra
100-125 lb capacity and a higher head clearance in the fuselage make an
Elite less suitable for an extra 2 seats? And, unlike the Rebel, it can
handle an 0-360 engine if you want to pump it up some more. I can't argue
with the fact that a lighter plane will outperform a heavier plane, and even
25 lbs will make a difference. But the trade-offs seem more than worth it.
Besides, I fear we are needlessly scaring off potential Elite builders in
our enthusiasm about our Rebels. Both airplanes are excellent choices and
as we get more Elites in the field, I think no one will be disappointed.
- Chuck Skorupa -
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2000 6:36 AM
Subject: RE: question from interested audience member

Don't know where these stories come from, but the Rebel is exactly
the SAME WIDTH inside as the Elite, and the Super Rebel... -------

The Elite is a few inches higher in back, but is less suitable
for 2 extra seats, because it is heavier and has less useful load -
the Elite you looked in weighs 1,100 lb ! The Rebel typically runs
915 to 950 lb. as a taildragger with O-320, 815-850 with an O-235,
and 600-720 with a 912. One extra seat is what the factory suggests,
for both aircraft (one adult...).

It is not uncommon to see Rebels with placards in the baggage
area saying "Max. baggage 320 lb." ! This was a real surprise for
the inspectors, who usually see aircraft with 20 to 40 lb. limits. :-)

.....bobp

------------------------------orig.---------------------------------------

-

At 01:30 AM 5/13/00 -0500, you wrote:
Amen on the winter women.... I am blessed also ! ( No offence skinny
ladies, just a personal preference, There is beauty in all godly
women....and several that AINT so godly..)

I am a bit confused as to how the FAA decided on a standard weight

adult..

Heck, I have not weighed 170 since 8th grade... It is good to know that

you

have a rather wide cg range in the A/C also..... I must admit that I

dream

of a o-320 on the front of the one in my long range plan....that should

have

plenty of torque to lift us all off in short order....

One of the things that impressed my bride at Sun-n-Fun was the huge

amount

of room in the back of the elite when I pulled the seat up to check out

the

rudder.... I know the elite is somewhat wider, but otherwise is it about

the

same back there ??

Thank you for the good info..... I look forward to hearing from other

folks

too !

Louis Young
www.justplanevideos.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne G. O'Shea [mailto:oifa@irishfield.on.ca]
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2000 10:40 PM
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List
Subject: Re: question from interested audience member

Good thing we are not talking about the 6' long back seat in my '69

Dodge!

Mine has 2 normal Rebel seats (tracks and all) in the back. I did the
original weight and balance for two "winter" women in the back
(you know the
ones with a little more meat on them, so more comfortable to
"cuddle" with!)
In reality, I have only carried the kids back there though and it
has worked
great. They have lots of leg room when the pilot seats are in flying
position and the back seats are moved up so their buts are on the
43" aft of
datum line. I could sit in the back seat before I had them
upholstered (I'M
5' 10"). I found there best use was the trip to Oshkosh '95 when
we had our
tents, sleeping bags, gear etc. piled up to the torque tube. We put the
seats to the back of their travel and just loaded the thing to
the roof. The
seat backs kept things from going down the tailcone As a matter
of fact, we
had it so loaded that we could not slide our seats back out of the

flying

position to aid in getting out!! With that load in it, it was the
smoothest
the thing ever flew!

Blue skies,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

P.S. Weather's not looking great for tomorrow Bob! 40Km winds, gusting

60.

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Friday, May 12, 2000 8:46 PM
Subject: Re: question from interested audience member

back

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Eric Fogelin · Post by **Eric Fogelin** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:47 pm

Thanks Chuck, glad to see a detailed write-up about the Elite.
I chose the Elite for the same reasons that you list. Sometimes
this alias has exchanges that pit the Rebel vs. Elite. That's
a shame, and unnecessary. They complement one another offering
a range of engines and features not available in total with one
or the other. Determine your flying needs, pick your features,
pick your plane and enjoy...

Eric "2 cents" Fogelin
Elite #645

-----Original Message-----
From: Charles Skorupa [mailto:Chas@wa.freei.net]
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2000 11:25 AM
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List
Subject: re: question from interested audience member

I think the Elite comparison is unfair. The factory Elite has an 0-360, a
fiberglass inner liner, fancy upholstery and is loaded with electronics. It
is a show plane. Murphy's spec sheets show an identical weight for an 0-320
Rebel and an 0-320 Elite taildragger at 950 lb. The Elite has an 1800 lb
gross weight vs 1650 lb for the Rebel. Realistically, the empty weight
should be somewhat more than the empty wt of a Rebel due to increased
thickness of the LE skins (.032 vs .020=est +12 lb), thicker door wraps (est
+3 lb), perhaps a somewhat heavier empennage due to the cantilever
construction (est +4 lb), and larger fuselage (est +4 lb). The Elite comes
standard with the firewall moved back, but I won't subtract the weight. The
Elite also has features standard that are extra on the Rebel. My particular
plane will not have the heavier metal control surfaces. In every area
where weight has been added, it is more than offset by the improvements in
strength, ease of construction, size, and aerodynamic performance. So, for
about a 25 lb increase in empty weight for my taildragger Elite over a
comparable Rebel, I should pick up and EXTRA 125 lb in useful payload
capacity over a comparably equipped Rebel. Even with the metal control
surfaces, there should be an increase in payload. How could an extra
100-125 lb capacity and a higher head clearance in the fuselage make an
Elite less suitable for an extra 2 seats? And, unlike the Rebel, it can
handle an 0-360 engine if you want to pump it up some more. I can't argue
with the fact that a lighter plane will outperform a heavier plane, and even
25 lbs will make a difference. But the trade-offs seem more than worth it.
Besides, I fear we are needlessly scaring off potential Elite builders in
our enthusiasm about our Rebels. Both airplanes are excellent choices and
as we get more Elites in the field, I think no one will be disappointed.
- Chuck Skorupa -
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2000 6:36 AM
Subject: RE: question from interested audience member

Don't know where these stories come from, but the Rebel is exactly
the SAME WIDTH inside as the Elite, and the Super Rebel... -------

The Elite is a few inches higher in back, but is less suitable
for 2 extra seats, because it is heavier and has less useful load -
the Elite you looked in weighs 1,100 lb ! The Rebel typically runs
915 to 950 lb. as a taildragger with O-320, 815-850 with an O-235,
and 600-720 with a 912. One extra seat is what the factory suggests,
for both aircraft (one adult...).

It is not uncommon to see Rebels with placards in the baggage
area saying "Max. baggage 320 lb." ! This was a real surprise for
the inspectors, who usually see aircraft with 20 to 40 lb. limits. :-)

.....bobp

------------------------------orig.---------------------------------------

-

At 01:30 AM 5/13/00 -0500, you wrote:
Amen on the winter women.... I am blessed also ! ( No offence skinny
ladies, just a personal preference, There is beauty in all godly
women....and several that AINT so godly..)

I am a bit confused as to how the FAA decided on a standard weight

adult..

Heck, I have not weighed 170 since 8th grade... It is good to know that

you

have a rather wide cg range in the A/C also..... I must admit that I

dream

of a o-320 on the front of the one in my long range plan....that should

have

plenty of torque to lift us all off in short order....

One of the things that impressed my bride at Sun-n-Fun was the huge

amount

of room in the back of the elite when I pulled the seat up to check out

the

rudder.... I know the elite is somewhat wider, but otherwise is it about

the

same back there ??

Thank you for the good info..... I look forward to hearing from other

folks

too !

Louis Young
www.justplanevideos.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne G. O'Shea [mailto:oifa@irishfield.on.ca]
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2000 10:40 PM
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List
Subject: Re: question from interested audience member

Good thing we are not talking about the 6' long back seat in my '69

Dodge!

Mine has 2 normal Rebel seats (tracks and all) in the back. I did the
original weight and balance for two "winter" women in the back
(you know the
ones with a little more meat on them, so more comfortable to
"cuddle" with!)
In reality, I have only carried the kids back there though and it
has worked
great. They have lots of leg room when the pilot seats are in flying
position and the back seats are moved up so their buts are on the
43" aft of
datum line. I could sit in the back seat before I had them
upholstered (I'M
5' 10"). I found there best use was the trip to Oshkosh '95 when
we had our
tents, sleeping bags, gear etc. piled up to the torque tube. We put the
seats to the back of their travel and just loaded the thing to
the roof. The
seat backs kept things from going down the tailcone As a matter
of fact, we
had it so loaded that we could not slide our seats back out of the

flying

position to aid in getting out!! With that load in it, it was the
smoothest
the thing ever flew!

Blue skies,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

P.S. Weather's not looking great for tomorrow Bob! 40Km winds, gusting

60.

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Friday, May 12, 2000 8:46 PM
Subject: Re: question from interested audience member

back

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Bob Patterson · Post by **Bob Patterson** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:47 pm

Eric & Chuck,

You're both right ! While I'm fighting hard to maintain my
position as the second highest-time Rebel pilot in the world, I'm only
the sixth or 8th highest-time Elite pilot, and slipping fast !

<My personal preference> is definitely the Rebel, but then,
I really don't like ANY of the 'features' of the Elite that <really>
turned you guys on.... Partly because of my 'upbringing' - flying all
kinds of Champs, T-Crafts, C-195's, Cornells, Super Cubs, etc., owning
a Piper J-4 for 10 years, an HP-11A for 23 years, and an Aeronca Super
Chief, and a Sedan, ...., and partly because of my experiences owning
3 Rebels and flying many more .....
All of these things, plus personal economics, and many other factors,
have tilted me to desire certain things in an aircraft. (If I win a
lottery, though, there's a Super Rebel in my future !! :-) )

BUT ... that's just <me>, AND ...

That doesn't make ANYONE right or wrong - we are just looking
for different things in our aircraft ! That's what makes a horse race ! :-)
And it's the reason homebuilts are SO popular - you can build in the
features that YOU want ! Everyone on this list is just trying to
pass along suggestions so that we can ALL end up with the best possible
airplane for OUR needs - the mods that are perfect for one may not appeal
to others, but at least all the options are shared.

You are absolutely correct in saying that EVERYONE will end
up happy, with a GREAT airplane !! After all, we built it OUR WAY !! :-)
And ALL of the Murphy airplanes offer MORE VALUE than anything else
out there !! (Aren't you glad you didn't choose a GlaStar ?! ) ;-)

Chuck, I think you are especially blessed, because you can
build an airplane with the best of BOTH, and it sounds like you are
building it RIGHT and LIGHT !! I look forward to flying with you ALL
on a Ramble one day !!

Keep on rivetting, guys - it REALLY <is> worth it !!

.....bobp

------------------------------orig.-------------------------------------
At 09:33 AM 5/16/00 -0700, you wrote:

Thanks Chuck, glad to see a detailed write-up about the Elite.
I chose the Elite for the same reasons that you list. Sometimes
this alias has exchanges that pit the Rebel vs. Elite. That's
a shame, and unnecessary. They complement one another offering
a range of engines and features not available in total with one
or the other. Determine your flying needs, pick your features,
pick your plane and enjoy...

Eric "2 cents" Fogelin
Elite #645

-----Original Message-----
From: Charles Skorupa [mailto:Chas@wa.freei.net]
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2000 11:25 AM
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List
Subject: re: question from interested audience member

I think the Elite comparison is unfair. The factory Elite has an 0-360, a
fiberglass inner liner, fancy upholstery and is loaded with electronics. It
is a show plane. Murphy's spec sheets show an identical weight for an 0-320
Rebel and an 0-320 Elite taildragger at 950 lb. The Elite has an 1800 lb
gross weight vs 1650 lb for the Rebel. Realistically, the empty weight
should be somewhat more than the empty wt of a Rebel due to increased
thickness of the LE skins (.032 vs .020=est +12 lb), thicker door wraps (est
+3 lb), perhaps a somewhat heavier empennage due to the cantilever
construction (est +4 lb), and larger fuselage (est +4 lb). The Elite comes
standard with the firewall moved back, but I won't subtract the weight. The
Elite also has features standard that are extra on the Rebel. My particular
plane will not have the heavier metal control surfaces. In every area
where weight has been added, it is more than offset by the improvements in
strength, ease of construction, size, and aerodynamic performance. So, for
about a 25 lb increase in empty weight for my taildragger Elite over a
comparable Rebel, I should pick up and EXTRA 125 lb in useful payload
capacity over a comparably equipped Rebel. Even with the metal control
surfaces, there should be an increase in payload. How could an extra
100-125 lb capacity and a higher head clearance in the fuselage make an
Elite less suitable for an extra 2 seats? And, unlike the Rebel, it can
handle an 0-360 engine if you want to pump it up some more. I can't argue
with the fact that a lighter plane will outperform a heavier plane, and even
25 lbs will make a difference. But the trade-offs seem more than worth it.
Besides, I fear we are needlessly scaring off potential Elite builders in
our enthusiasm about our Rebels. Both airplanes are excellent choices and
as we get more Elites in the field, I think no one will be disappointed.
- Chuck Skorupa -
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2000 6:36 AM
Subject: RE: question from interested audience member

Don't know where these stories come from, but the Rebel is exactly
the SAME WIDTH inside as the Elite, and the Super Rebel... -------

The Elite is a few inches higher in back, but is less suitable
for 2 extra seats, because it is heavier and has less useful load -
the Elite you looked in weighs 1,100 lb ! The Rebel typically runs
915 to 950 lb. as a taildragger with O-320, 815-850 with an O-235,
and 600-720 with a 912. One extra seat is what the factory suggests,
for both aircraft (one adult...).

It is not uncommon to see Rebels with placards in the baggage
area saying "Max. baggage 320 lb." ! This was a real surprise for
the inspectors, who usually see aircraft with 20 to 40 lb. limits. :-)

.....bobp

------------------------------orig.---------------------------------------
-
At 01:30 AM 5/13/00 -0500, you wrote:
Amen on the winter women.... I am blessed also ! ( No offence skinny
ladies, just a personal preference, There is beauty in all godly
women....and several that AINT so godly..)

I am a bit confused as to how the FAA decided on a standard weight
adult..
Heck, I have not weighed 170 since 8th grade... It is good to know that
you
have a rather wide cg range in the A/C also..... I must admit that I
dream
of a o-320 on the front of the one in my long range plan....that should
have
plenty of torque to lift us all off in short order....

One of the things that impressed my bride at Sun-n-Fun was the huge
amount
of room in the back of the elite when I pulled the seat up to check out
the
rudder.... I know the elite is somewhat wider, but otherwise is it about
the
same back there ??

Thank you for the good info..... I look forward to hearing from other
folks
too !

Louis Young
www.justplanevideos.com

Dodge!
flying
60.
back

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BILNEWKIRK · Post by **BILNEWKIRK** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:47 pm

BOB P.
DO YOU USE USE FULL FLAPS WHEN MAKING 'NORMAL' LANDINGS? DO YOU DO 3-POINT
OR WHEEL. I HAVE 125 HOURS ON #376 AND STILL CAN'T LAND IT WORTH A DARN.
ONE GOOD THING, HOWEVER, IS THAT IT IS SO FORGIVING ON THE GROUND.

BILL N
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