[rebel-builders] Re: Murphy web site

Skytrucks · Post by **Skytrucks** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:22 am

Eric! That was well said! I hope those of us that read it will have more
patience. I could have never said it better myself. I think more people need to
learn how to spend money on airplanes to get it done right. The same people
spend all kinds of money on other things that are not as important as
airplanes. ..............Larry

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Blueraven · Post by **Blueraven** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:22 am

Sounds like your making excuses for Murphy.

Look at this for an example of a well made manual:

http://dreamaircraft.com/?c=assembly_ma ... 9eb5cae1df

http://dreamaircraft.com/?c=tech_drawin ... 9eb5cae1df

BR
=============

eric.r@dcsol.com wrote:

Have you ever worked using a Beech Manual? or a Cessna manual? or a
Grumman manual? ( I refer to parts and overhaul manuals). They all are
good "guides", but are full of missed items, wrong information, wrong part
descriptions, and on and on. I do not expect my Rebel manual or my amphib
float manual to be perfect and "paint by numbers". I expect to invest at least
equal research to actual physical labor. Read it, absorb it, think about it, then
put it down and come back again later ... it will all come together in due
time ... or ... write a check to someone who has done it before (and over).
On 2/20/2006 6:52 PM, nielsenbe@aol.com wrote to rebel-builders:

-> How about a part number for the new Moose builder manual.....OH wait
there
-> never will be a good manual.
->

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Ken · Post by **Ken** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:22 am

I agree although I'd add that I think the spirit of homebuilding is that
we also have the wonderful option of learning how to do it ourselves
rather than having no choice but to throw money at at ;)
BTW I lost track awhile ago of which questions and which comments
referred to which aircraft in the recent thread. Over the last 9 years I
haven't seen any other contenders that would cause me to seriously
reconsider choosing a standard Rebel. I guess I have spent a couple of
percent of the kit's cost on upgrading from things like fairleads to
pulleys, brass to aluminum plumbing, and a few sheets of aluminum to
redo or upgrade something. Mostly by choice rather than necessity.
Ken

Skytrucks@aol.com wrote:

Eric! That was well said! I hope those of us that read it will have more
patience. I could have never said it better myself. I think more people need to
learn how to spend money on airplanes to get it done right. The same people
spend all kinds of money on other things that are not as important as
airplanes. ..............Larry

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brad · Post by **brad** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:22 am

When did this list turn in to a forum for whining.........

If anyone is looking for the perfect manual and the perfect plane good luck.
If you don't like the manual and think someone elses is better go buy that
pane and stop complaining here.

Life is full of comprimises. Yes Murphy's manual could be better. Other
Manufacturers could stand to inprove their planes.

Each builder needs to decide what is important to them. If it's the manual
then buy for the manual. If it's the plane buy for the plane and work around
the manul with the help of experianced builder like on this site.

Just my 4 cents worth.

Brad.
bhewlett@sasktel.net

On 2/21/2006 8:58 AM, bluedog@ak.net wrote to rebel-builders:

-> Sounds like your making excuses for Murphy.
->
-> Look at this for an example of a well made manual:
->
-> http://dreamaircraft.com/?
c=assembly_manual&PHPSESSID=c960897221e787823c11809eb5cae1df
->
-> http://dreamaircraft.com/?
c=tech_drawings&PHPSESSID=c960897221e787823c11809eb5cae1df
->
-> BR
-> =============
->
-> eric.r@dcsol.com wrote:
-> > Have you ever worked using a Beech Manual? or a Cessna manual? or a
-> > Grumman manual? ( I refer to parts and overhaul manuals). They all
are
-> > good "guides", but are full of missed items, wrong information, wrong
part
-> > descriptions, and on and on. I do not expect my Rebel manual or my
amphib
-> > float manual to be perfect and "paint by numbers". I expect to invest
at least
-> > equal research to actual physical labor. Read it, absorb it, think about
it, then
-> > put it down and come back again later ... it will all come together in
due
-> > time ... or ... write a check to someone who has done it before (and
over).
-> > On 2/20/2006 6:52 PM, nielsenbe@aol.com wrote to rebel-builders:
-> >
-> > -> How about a part number for the new Moose builder manual.....OH
wait
-> > there
-> > -> never will be a good manual.
-> > ->
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
-> > username "rebel" password "builder"
-> > Subscription services located at:
-> > https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
-> > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
->

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Blueraven · Post by **Blueraven** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:22 am

FYI -

From Murphy Moose builder::

Lots of folks know the problem but don't want to admit the mistake and
tend to blame themselves for problems. Clearly, the manual is deficient
and I can tell you from personal experience hiring people who used to
work at the factory to help, there is no way an individual can make a
Murphy Moose without a lot of previous experience or professional help.
Just can't be done.

The FAA is no help. With experimentals, they are totally out of the
program. It is up to the builder, regardless of kit, plans, or
otherwise, to insure the plan will fly and is safe.

Brent ..

Is it whining from someone who spent a lot of hard earned $ for
something that was misrepresented to them. Thats what happended.

Facts are facts..Thats all.

Read this then http://www.brentblue.com/open_letter_to_darryl.htm

Wm Harvey
=========================

brad@dcsol.com wrote:

When did this list turn in to a forum for whining.........

If anyone is looking for the perfect manual and the perfect plane good luck.
If you don't like the manual and think someone elses is better go buy that
pane and stop complaining here.

Life is full of comprimises. Yes Murphy's manual could be better. Other
Manufacturers could stand to inprove their planes.

Each builder needs to decide what is important to them. If it's the manual
then buy for the manual. If it's the plane buy for the plane and work around
the manul with the help of experianced builder like on this site.

Just my 4 cents worth.

Brad.
bhewlett@sasktel.net

On 2/21/2006 8:58 AM, bluedog@ak.net wrote to rebel-builders:

-> Sounds like your making excuses for Murphy.
->
-> Look at this for an example of a well made manual:
->
-> http://dreamaircraft.com/?
c=assembly_manual&PHPSESSID=c960897221e787823c11809eb5cae1df
->
-> http://dreamaircraft.com/?
c=tech_drawings&PHPSESSID=c960897221e787823c11809eb5cae1df
->
-> BR
-> =============
->
-> eric.r@dcsol.com wrote:
-> > Have you ever worked using a Beech Manual? or a Cessna manual? or a
-> > Grumman manual? ( I refer to parts and overhaul manuals). They all
are
-> > good "guides", but are full of missed items, wrong information, wrong
part
-> > descriptions, and on and on. I do not expect my Rebel manual or my
amphib
-> > float manual to be perfect and "paint by numbers". I expect to invest
at least
-> > equal research to actual physical labor. Read it, absorb it, think about
it, then
-> > put it down and come back again later ... it will all come together in
due
-> > time ... or ... write a check to someone who has done it before (and
over).
-> > On 2/20/2006 6:52 PM, nielsenbe@aol.com wrote to rebel-builders:
-> >
-> > -> How about a part number for the new Moose builder manual.....OH
wait
-> > there
-> > -> never will be a good manual.
-> > ->
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
-> > username "rebel" password "builder"
-> > Subscription services located at:
-> > https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
-> > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
->

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eric.r · Post by **eric.r** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:22 am

Sounds like your'e selling manuals! I don't care how well they look, if you rely
on them to be exact, you'll end up with a rivet in the windscreen. Then again,
I understand that it gets real dark up there in AK, so reading material is
important.
On 2/21/2006 8:58 AM, bluedog@ak.net wrote to rebel-builders:

-> Sounds like your making excuses for Murphy.
->
-> Look at this for an example of a well made manual:
->
-> http://dreamaircraft.com/?
c=assembly_manual&PHPSESSID=c960897221e787823c11809eb5cae1df
->
-> http://dreamaircraft.com/?
c=tech_drawings&PHPSESSID=c960897221e787823c11809eb5cae1df
->
-> BR
-> =============
->
-> eric.r@dcsol.com wrote:
-> > Have you ever worked using a Beech Manual? or a Cessna manual? or a
-> > Grumman manual? ( I refer to parts and overhaul manuals). They all are
-> > good "guides", but are full of missed items, wrong information, wrong
part
-> > descriptions, and on and on. I do not expect my Rebel manual or my
amphib
-> > float manual to be perfect and "paint by numbers". I expect to invest at
least
-> > equal research to actual physical labor. Read it, absorb it, think about it,
then
-> > put it down and come back again later ... it will all come together in due
-> > time ... or ... write a check to someone who has done it before (and
over).
-> > On 2/20/2006 6:52 PM, nielsenbe@aol.com wrote to rebel-builders:
-> >
-> > -> How about a part number for the new Moose builder manual.....OH
wait
-> > there
-> > -> never will be a good manual.
-> > ->
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
-> > username "rebel" password "builder"
-> > Subscription services located at:
-> > https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
-> > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
->

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Blueraven · Post by **Blueraven** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:22 am

I guess personal attacks is the way you express you frustration?

whats your point?

Deficients in the system are real. Are you deneying that?

So whats the prob with discussing them on an open forum?

BR
=========

eric.r@dcsol.com wrote:

Sounds like your'e selling manuals! I don't care how well they look, if you rely
on them to be exact, you'll end up with a rivet in the windscreen. Then again,
I understand that it gets real dark up there in AK, so reading material is
important.
On 2/21/2006 8:58 AM, bluedog@ak.net wrote to rebel-builders:

-> Sounds like your making excuses for Murphy.
->
-> Look at this for an example of a well made manual:
->
-> http://dreamaircraft.com/?
c=assembly_manual&PHPSESSID=c960897221e787823c11809eb5cae1df
->
-> http://dreamaircraft.com/?
c=tech_drawings&PHPSESSID=c960897221e787823c11809eb5cae1df
->
-> BR
-> =============
->
-> eric.r@dcsol.com wrote:
-> > Have you ever worked using a Beech Manual? or a Cessna manual? or a
-> > Grumman manual? ( I refer to parts and overhaul manuals). They all are
-> > good "guides", but are full of missed items, wrong information, wrong
part
-> > descriptions, and on and on. I do not expect my Rebel manual or my
amphib
-> > float manual to be perfect and "paint by numbers". I expect to invest at
least
-> > equal research to actual physical labor. Read it, absorb it, think about it,
then
-> > put it down and come back again later ... it will all come together in due
-> > time ... or ... write a check to someone who has done it before (and
over).
-> > On 2/20/2006 6:52 PM, nielsenbe@aol.com wrote to rebel-builders:
-> >
-> > -> How about a part number for the new Moose builder manual.....OH
wait
-> > there
-> > -> never will be a good manual.
-> > ->
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
-> > username "rebel" password "builder"
-> > Subscription services located at:
-> > https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
-> > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
->

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Jean Poirier · Post by **Jean Poirier** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:22 am

Oups!

I have put a little note this morning about Dream Aircraft.... IT WAS NOT TO
USE AGAINST MURPHY OR SOMEONE ELSE.! Van's have better speed/hp ratio...
Zenair have better manual Glastar are nicer... but my Rebel is overall
the best (for me!)

Yes they could probably upgrate their manual and some parts of the kit. How
many kit company still in business after 20-25 years? It is a tough
business. They probably know all thoses problems (I hope) and most of us
will expect them to improve all those things in the future, but they have
to stay in business and that probably mean spent more time on airplanes
sales than on manual upgrade!

Vans, Zenith and Murphy are probably the leaders in longevity, sales and
popularity. All 3 with same ownwers since the beginning. Read KitPlane,
EAA or others and they all reconised that facts.

I also need help from tech department, or from this site, sometimes I asked
more experienced people their opinion but before to shoot "red bullets" on
Murphy.... should you be so severe? 2 cents ......

Jean
Rebel 747R
----- Original Message -----
From: <eric.r@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 1:37 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Re: Murphy web site

Sounds like your'e selling manuals! I don't care how well they look, if
you rely
on them to be exact, you'll end up with a rivet in the windscreen. Then
again,
I understand that it gets real dark up there in AK, so reading material is
important.
On 2/21/2006 8:58 AM, bluedog@ak.net wrote to rebel-builders:

-> Sounds like your making excuses for Murphy.
->
-> Look at this for an example of a well made manual:
->
-> http://dreamaircraft.com/?
c=assembly_manual&PHPSESSID=c960897221e787823c11809eb5cae1df
->
-> http://dreamaircraft.com/?
c=tech_drawings&PHPSESSID=c960897221e787823c11809eb5cae1df
->
-> BR
-> =============
->
-> eric.r@dcsol.com wrote:
-> > Have you ever worked using a Beech Manual? or a Cessna manual? or a
-> > Grumman manual? ( I refer to parts and overhaul manuals). They all
are
-> > good "guides", but are full of missed items, wrong information, wrong
part
-> > descriptions, and on and on. I do not expect my Rebel manual or my
amphib
-> > float manual to be perfect and "paint by numbers". I expect to invest
at
least
-> > equal research to actual physical labor. Read it, absorb it, think
about it,
then
-> > put it down and come back again later ... it will all come together
in due
-> > time ... or ... write a check to someone who has done it before (and
over).
-> > On 2/20/2006 6:52 PM, nielsenbe@aol.com wrote to rebel-builders:
-> >
-> > -> How about a part number for the new Moose builder manual.....OH
wait
-> > there
-> > -> never will be a good manual.
-> > ->
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
-> > username "rebel" password "builder"
-> > Subscription services located at:
-> > https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
-> > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
->

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Barnhart · Post by **Barnhart** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:22 am

Our EAA chapter had a manual contest one evening. A chance to see how
different kit/plans built aircraft were put together.

Muphy came in dead last. One comment was that the manual for a Super Rebel
desribed a 3 winged Republic Seabee knockoff. The term "mirroring" without
even one piece of paper on what the other wing looked like was also found
entertaining...

Worked out a system that worked well. Read everything on that one piece,
know it, write down the important data, get the big picture in your head and
do it.

Barny
SR103

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eric.r · Post by **eric.r** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:22 am

O>K> I give up ... I now find myself responding to drivel that has nothing to
do with why I joined the group (obtaining building tips and helpful info). In the
future I'll not clog the system ...
But for now: what attack? I know that continued darkness can induce
depression, but I didn't know that paranoia was also possible! Yes, the
manual is deficient! I found that out from a reliable source (at OshKosh)
PRIOR to my writing the check!! Eyes wide open; dove right in!
I read the "open letter" you linked to, and agree that no one can build an
airplane without some experience or professional help. That's why A&P
licenses are not earned by testing alone. Building is a "learning
experience" ... If you believe hype "to the letter", pour red wine on your new
wool carpet and wipe it away with the "magic cloth". D. Murphy responded
well when he indicated that knowledge of wrenches and screwdrivers was a
requirement. i.e. screwdrivers are never suitable as pry-bars, chisels, or
punches, and wrenches make bad hammers, pry bars, and bottle openers.
You will have a learning curve and find new ways to spend money on tools.
Now back to an open forum ... the manuals are deficient, Murphy is a for
profit organization; I'm aware, you're aware; every one is aware. The buyer
should always aware, and perfection is in the eye of the beholder.
I'm going to go and make metal pieces into an airplane!. On 2/21/2006 9:47
AM, bluedog@ak.net wrote to rebel-builders:

-> I guess personal attacks is the way you express you frustration?
->
-> whats your point?
->
-> Deficients in the system are real. Are you deneying that?
->
-> So whats the prob with discussing them on an open forum?
->
-> BR
-> =========
->
-> eric.r@dcsol.com wrote:
-> > Sounds like your'e selling manuals! I don't care how well they look, if you
rely
-> > on them to be exact, you'll end up with a rivet in the windscreen. Then
again,
-> > I understand that it gets real dark up there in AK, so reading material is
-> > important.
-> > On 2/21/2006 8:58 AM, bluedog@ak.net wrote to rebel-builders:
-> >
-> > -> Sounds like your making excuses for Murphy.
-> > ->
-> > -> Look at this for an example of a well made manual:
-> > ->
-> > -> http://dreamaircraft.com/?
-> > c=assembly_manual&PHPSESSID=c960897221e787823c11809eb5cae1df
-> > ->
-> > -> http://dreamaircraft.com/?
-> > c=tech_drawings&PHPSESSID=c960897221e787823c11809eb5cae1df
-> > ->
-> > -> BR
-> > -> =============
-> > ->
-> > -> eric.r@dcsol.com wrote:
-> > -> > Have you ever worked using a Beech Manual? or a Cessna manual?
or a
-> > -> > Grumman manual? ( I refer to parts and overhaul manuals). They all
are
-> > -> > good "guides", but are full of missed items, wrong information,
wrong
-> > part
-> > -> > descriptions, and on and on. I do not expect my Rebel manual or
my
-> > amphib
-> > -> > float manual to be perfect and "paint by numbers". I expect to
invest at
-> > least
-> > -> > equal research to actual physical labor. Read it, absorb it, think
about it,
-> > then
-> > -> > put it down and come back again later ... it will all come together
in due
-> > -> > time ... or ... write a check to someone who has done it before
(and
-> > over).
-> > -> > On 2/20/2006 6:52 PM, nielsenbe@aol.com wrote to rebel-builders:
-> > -> >
-> > -> > -> How about a part number for the new Moose builder
manual.....OH
-> > wait
-> > -> > there
-> > -> > -> never will be a good manual.
-> > -> > ->
-> > -> >
-> > -> >
-> > -> >
-> > -> >
-> > -> >
-> > -> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > -> > List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
-> > -> > username "rebel" password "builder"
-> > -> > Subscription services located at:
-> > -> > https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
-> > -> > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> > -> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > -> >
-> > -> >
-> > -> >
-> > -> >
-> > -> >
-> > ->
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
-> > username "rebel" password "builder"
-> > Subscription services located at:
-> > https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
-> > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
->

-----------------------------------------------------------------
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Blueraven · Post by **Blueraven** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:22 am

Jean,

Thanks for the thghts. That helps me understand it better. Since I
haven't built one i really dont know. As i said im just reporting what
I've found..

What's you opinion of the BearHawk plane..It's American.

WEH
=============

Jean Poirier wrote:

Oups!

I have put a little note this morning about Dream Aircraft.... IT WAS NOT TO
USE AGAINST MURPHY OR SOMEONE ELSE.! Van's have better speed/hp ratio...
Zenair have better manual Glastar are nicer... but my Rebel is overall
the best (for me!)

Yes they could probably upgrate their manual and some parts of the kit. How
many kit company still in business after 20-25 years? It is a tough
business. They probably know all thoses problems (I hope) and most of us
will expect them to improve all those things in the future, but they have
to stay in business and that probably mean spent more time on airplanes
sales than on manual upgrade!

Vans, Zenith and Murphy are probably the leaders in longevity, sales and
popularity. All 3 with same ownwers since the beginning. Read KitPlane,
EAA or others and they all reconised that facts.

I also need help from tech department, or from this site, sometimes I asked
more experienced people their opinion but before to shoot "red bullets" on
Murphy.... should you be so severe? 2 cents ......

Jean
Rebel 747R
----- Original Message -----
From: <eric.r@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 1:37 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Re: Murphy web site

Sounds like your'e selling manuals! I don't care how well they look, if
you rely
on them to be exact, you'll end up with a rivet in the windscreen. Then
again,
I understand that it gets real dark up there in AK, so reading material is
important.
On 2/21/2006 8:58 AM, bluedog@ak.net wrote to rebel-builders:

-> Sounds like your making excuses for Murphy.
->
-> Look at this for an example of a well made manual:
->
-> http://dreamaircraft.com/?
c=assembly_manual&PHPSESSID=c960897221e787823c11809eb5cae1df
->
-> http://dreamaircraft.com/?
c=tech_drawings&PHPSESSID=c960897221e787823c11809eb5cae1df
->
-> BR
-> =============
->
-> eric.r@dcsol.com wrote:
-> > Have you ever worked using a Beech Manual? or a Cessna manual? or a
-> > Grumman manual? ( I refer to parts and overhaul manuals). They all
are
-> > good "guides", but are full of missed items, wrong information, wrong
part
-> > descriptions, and on and on. I do not expect my Rebel manual or my
amphib
-> > float manual to be perfect and "paint by numbers". I expect to invest
at
least
-> > equal research to actual physical labor. Read it, absorb it, think
about it,
then
-> > put it down and come back again later ... it will all come together
in due
-> > time ... or ... write a check to someone who has done it before (and
over).
-> > On 2/20/2006 6:52 PM, nielsenbe@aol.com wrote to rebel-builders:
-> >
-> > -> How about a part number for the new Moose builder manual.....OH
wait
-> > there
-> > -> never will be a good manual.
-> > ->
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
-> > username "rebel" password "builder"
-> > Subscription services located at:
-> > https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
-> > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
->

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Jean Poirier · Post by **Jean Poirier** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:22 am

American, Canadian or Europeean is not important. Have you a pilot licence
yet? There is a book sale by eaa on "how to choose a kit airplane" Start
at the beginning. All peoples on that site or other builders site have
already made their homework and live with them. Do your's before anything
else! good luck

Jean
Rebel 747R
----- Original Message -----
From: "Blueraven" <bluedog@ak.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 2:25 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Re: Murphy web site

Jean,

Thanks for the thghts. That helps me understand it better. Since I
haven't built one i really dont know. As i said im just reporting what
I've found..

What's you opinion of the BearHawk plane..It's American.

WEH
=============

Jean Poirier wrote:
Oups!

I have put a little note this morning about Dream Aircraft.... IT WAS NOT
TO
USE AGAINST MURPHY OR SOMEONE ELSE.! Van's have better speed/hp ratio...
Zenair have better manual Glastar are nicer... but my Rebel is overall
the best (for me!)

Yes they could probably upgrate their manual and some parts of the kit.
How
many kit company still in business after 20-25 years? It is a tough
business. They probably know all thoses problems (I hope) and most of
us
will expect them to improve all those things in the future, but they
have
to stay in business and that probably mean spent more time on airplanes
sales than on manual upgrade!

Vans, Zenith and Murphy are probably the leaders in longevity, sales and
popularity. All 3 with same ownwers since the beginning. Read
KitPlane,
EAA or others and they all reconised that facts.

I also need help from tech department, or from this site, sometimes I
asked
more experienced people their opinion but before to shoot "red bullets"
on
Murphy.... should you be so severe? 2 cents ......

Jean
Rebel 747R
----- Original Message -----
From: <eric.r@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 1:37 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Re: Murphy web site

Sounds like your'e selling manuals! I don't care how well they look, if
you rely
on them to be exact, you'll end up with a rivet in the windscreen. Then
again,
I understand that it gets real dark up there in AK, so reading material
is
important.
On 2/21/2006 8:58 AM, bluedog@ak.net wrote to rebel-builders:

-> Sounds like your making excuses for Murphy.
->
-> Look at this for an example of a well made manual:
->
-> http://dreamaircraft.com/?
c=assembly_manual&PHPSESSID=c960897221e787823c11809eb5cae1df
->
-> http://dreamaircraft.com/?
c=tech_drawings&PHPSESSID=c960897221e787823c11809eb5cae1df
->
-> BR
-> =============
->
-> eric.r@dcsol.com wrote:
-> > Have you ever worked using a Beech Manual? or a Cessna manual? or a
-> > Grumman manual? ( I refer to parts and overhaul manuals). They all
are
-> > good "guides", but are full of missed items, wrong information,
wrong
part
-> > descriptions, and on and on. I do not expect my Rebel manual or my
amphib
-> > float manual to be perfect and "paint by numbers". I expect to
invest
at
least
-> > equal research to actual physical labor. Read it, absorb it, think
about it,
then
-> > put it down and come back again later ... it will all come together
in due
-> > time ... or ... write a check to someone who has done it before (and
over).
-> > On 2/20/2006 6:52 PM, nielsenbe@aol.com wrote to rebel-builders:
-> >
-> > -> How about a part number for the new Moose builder manual.....OH
wait
-> > there
-> > -> never will be a good manual.
-> > ->
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
-> > username "rebel" password "builder"
-> > Subscription services located at:
-> > https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
-> > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
->

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Blueraven · Post by **Blueraven** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:22 am

Yeah i was ticketed in Ak in the winter in '83. Mostly 172's, some
TaylorCraft and 210 time. Hardly any flying since late 80's. I already
read an article on choosing but not a book. I'll look into that.

Thanks Jean..

Jean Poirier wrote:

American, Canadian or Europeean is not important. Have you a pilot licence
yet? There is a book sale by eaa on "how to choose a kit airplane" Start
at the beginning. All peoples on that site or other builders site have
already made their homework and live with them. Do your's before anything
else! good luck

Jean
Rebel 747R
----- Original Message -----
From: "Blueraven" <bluedog@ak.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 2:25 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Re: Murphy web site

Jean,

Thanks for the thghts. That helps me understand it better. Since I
haven't built one i really dont know. As i said im just reporting what
I've found..

What's you opinion of the BearHawk plane..It's American.

WEH
=============

Jean Poirier wrote:

Oups!

I have put a little note this morning about Dream Aircraft.... IT WAS NOT
TO
USE AGAINST MURPHY OR SOMEONE ELSE.! Van's have better speed/hp ratio...
Zenair have better manual Glastar are nicer... but my Rebel is overall
the best (for me!)

Yes they could probably upgrate their manual and some parts of the kit.
How
many kit company still in business after 20-25 years? It is a tough
business. They probably know all thoses problems (I hope) and most of
us
will expect them to improve all those things in the future, but they
have
to stay in business and that probably mean spent more time on airplanes
sales than on manual upgrade!

Vans, Zenith and Murphy are probably the leaders in longevity, sales and
popularity. All 3 with same ownwers since the beginning. Read
KitPlane,
EAA or others and they all reconised that facts.

I also need help from tech department, or from this site, sometimes I
asked
more experienced people their opinion but before to shoot "red bullets"
on
Murphy.... should you be so severe? 2 cents ......

Jean
Rebel 747R
----- Original Message -----
From: <eric.r@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 1:37 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Re: Murphy web site

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Nielsenbe · Post by **Nielsenbe** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:22 am

I was only saying the Moose has NEVER had a manual just a SR manual with the
upgrade flyer. If they are going to stop selling the SR maybe writing a
manual complete with when and where to do the moose upgrades would be nice. Why
would a beech or cessna manual be as complete as a murphy manual is when they
don't expect you to BUILD the plane from it. If the upgrade manual even
suggested that while on step X during construction of the BLA complete upgrade
steps 1-3. Following the SR manual is easy enough but seems awkward to fit in
the necessary steps to build a moose and not upgrade a SR. Murphy changed it's
focus to the moose with no effort toward the documentation but they sure
charge a lot more for the moose with very little added material cost. Before you
said all the extra money was spent to engineer the mods consider all the fixes
others outside of murphy have been making and the excuse from the factory
that they are not aircraft engineers. Done ranting for now, sorry.

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Mike Davis · Post by **Mike Davis** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:22 am

Read the archives... you'll find that the manual is the most often
criticized topic of Murphy builders.

Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: "Blueraven" <bluedog@ak.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 8:58 AM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Re: Murphy web site

Sounds like your making excuses for Murphy.

Look at this for an example of a well made manual:

http://dreamaircraft.com/?c=assembly_ma ... 9eb5cae1df

http://dreamaircraft.com/?c=tech_drawin ... 9eb5cae1df

BR

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