Humorous comparison

[Mike Davis]

Just wanted to share some information I just received from an individual who's looking at different aircraft, and has been asking me questions about Murphy's products. The comparison below came from the folks who make the Bearhawk. I know all manufacturers try to make their product look the best they can, and the numbers are often inflated a little, but I found it interesting to see a side by side comparison done by a manufacturer... they didn't use the numbers provided by their competition because Murphy claims a cruise speed of 143 mph with an O-540, not the 130 we see below. Also, unless the Moose quick build cost is up to $20k I'm not sure where the $54k price tag came from.

Mike

Amateur Built Aircraft
Useful Load Cruise @65%, mph Quick-Build Cost Comments

Bearhawk 250 1100 152-155 $29,750
Bearhawk 180 1300 142 $29,750
Tundra/Dream-200 hp 1100 128 $48,000* Not available yet, their estimate of cost
Tundra/Dream-235 950 135 est $48,000*
Bush Caddy, 180 hp 1,200 115 $45,000
Murphy Super Rebel 1800 130 $54,000* Lycoming 250
Murphy Moose 1700 130 $54,000* Same kit as S-Rebel
GlasStar 2 + 2, 160 hp 1000 155 (160 @ 75%) $51,535* Not true four-place

Certified Aircraft

Cessna 180F 1080 150 mph (159 @ 75%) $75,000 plus
BH 2" wider at shoulders
Cessna 182 1000 155 mph $70-$90,000
BH same width as late models
Cessna 172M 870 125 mph (130 @ 75%) $45-$70,000
BH 3" wider at shoulders
Cherokee 235 1,450 150 mph $50-$75,000
Maule MX-7 800-850 145 mph $60-$75K Not at gross weight
* includes some hardware



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[Scott Aldrich]

Actually he is low, the Moose fast build with Avex only rivets (no more
solid) is US $54,774. not including crating and shipping of course..

FWIW


-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 9:53 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Humorous comparison

Just wanted to share some information I just received from an individual
who's looking at different aircraft, and has been asking me questions about
Murphy's products. The comparison below came from the folks who make the
Bearhawk. I know all manufacturers try to make their product look the best
they can, and the numbers are often inflated a little, but I found it
interesting to see a side by side comparison done by a manufacturer... they
didn't use the numbers provided by their competition because Murphy claims a
cruise speed of 143 mph with an O-540, not the 130 we see below. Also,
unless the Moose quick build cost is up to $20k I'm not sure where the $54k
price tag came from.

Mike

Amateur Built Aircraft
Useful Load Cruise @65%, mph
Quick-Build Cost Comments

Bearhawk 250 1100 152-155
$29,750
Bearhawk 180 1300 142
$29,750
Tundra/Dream-200 hp 1100 128
$48,000* Not available yet, their estimate of cost
Tundra/Dream-235 950 135 est
$48,000*
Bush Caddy, 180 hp 1,200 115
$45,000
Murphy Super Rebel 1800 130
$54,000* Lycoming 250
Murphy Moose 1700 130
$54,000* Same kit as S-Rebel
GlasStar 2 + 2, 160 hp 1000 155 (160 @ 75%)
$51,535* Not true four-place

Certified Aircraft

Cessna 180F 1080 150 mph (159 @ 75%)
$75,000 plus

BH 2" wider at shoulders
Cessna 182 1000 155 mph
$70-$90,000

BH same width as late models
Cessna 172M 870 125 mph (130 @ 75%)
$45-$70,000

BH 3" wider at shoulders
Cherokee 235 1,450 150 mph
$50-$75,000
Maule MX-7 800-850 145 mph
$60-$75K Not at gross weight

* includes some hardware



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[Bob Patterson]

Hi Mike !

Over the years, I've seen many spreadsheets like this. People
make emotional decisions (Yes ! These ARE emotional decisions !) to buy
a particular kit, THEN try to rationalize their choice with facts !!

Every one of these comparisons clearly showed that THEIR choice was
absolutely THE best choice ! There's no point trying to change someone's
mind if it's already made up - BUT, for those who are still looking, I
always encourage an honest gathering of ALL the facts, including talking
to owners and builders, AND going for a flight in each possibility !!
There's no sustitute for experience, but there's nothing wrong with
using the experience of OTHERS ! :-)

The price they show for the QB Moose is about right - the last factory
price was $54,774 USD - aren't you glad you got yours when you did ??!!! :-)
I suspect, in terms of percentage of work still to do, that the standard
Moose kit, at $36,516 USD, is a better comparison to the BH......

You are correct about the speed, and Murphy is always conservative
with their performance numbers ! Also, there IS a LITTLE difference in
useful load !!! ;-)

In terms of real-life performance, I watched a 250 hp Bearhawk -
with basic panel and handheld radio, take off right behind a 250 Hp Moose,
for a photo shoot. The Moose had 2 people in front, and a photographer
and large camera in the back, with the baggage door removed - the BH pilot
was solo. The Moose was up and gone very quickly - the Bearhawk struggled
to climb, going up nowhere near as fast as the Moose (maybe half the ROC),
AND at a slower speed. The Moose had to really slow down to shoot the BH
in cruise, and the BH gave up after a few shots - and so missed the chance
to be on the cover of a leading magazine !

Even using their figures, the Moose is a great value, compared to
certified aircraft, and it's all metal. The Bearhawk is an interesting
airplane - reminds me a lot of the Maule, or a warmed-over Pacer. Maybe,
if there weren't Murphy aircraft, it might be something i'd look at ....
I certainly admire the effort the BH manufacturers are putting in - this
is one tough business !
......bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Wednesday 15 February 2006 11:53 pm, Mike Davis wrote:

Just wanted to share some information I just received from an individual
who's looking at different aircraft, and has been asking me questions
about Murphy's products. The comparison below came from the folks who
make the Bearhawk. I know all manufacturers try to make their product
look the best they can, and the numbers are often inflated a little, but
I found it interesting to see a side by side comparison done by a
manufacturer... they didn't use the numbers provided by their competition
because Murphy claims a cruise speed of 143 mph with an O-540, not the
130 we see below. Also, unless the Moose quick build cost is up to $20k
I'm not sure where the $54k price tag came from.

Mike

Amateur Built Aircraft
Useful Load Cruise @65%,
mph Quick-Build Cost Comments

Bearhawk 250 1100 152-155
$29,750 Bearhawk 180 1300
142 $29,750 Tundra/Dream-200 hp
1100 128
$48,000* Not available yet, their estimate of cost Tundra/Dream-235
950 135 est
$48,000* Bush Caddy, 180 hp 1,200 115
$45,000 Murphy Super Rebel 1800
130 $54,000* Lycoming 250
Murphy Moose 1700 130
$54,000* Same kit as S-Rebel GlasStar 2 + 2, 160 hp
1000 155 (160 @ 75%) $51,535* Not true
four-place

Certified Aircraft

Cessna 180F 1080 150 mph (159 @
75%) $75,000 plus BH 2" wider at shoulders Cessna 182
1000 155 mph $70-$90,000 BH same
width as late models Cessna 172M 870
125 mph (130 @ 75%) $45-$70,000 BH 3" wider at shoulders Cherokee 235
1,450 150 mph $50-$75,000
Maule MX-7 800-850 145 mph
$60-$75K Not at gross weight * includes some hardware

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[Jim Cole]

While we're talking about prices - just a reminder that I have my Moose
Kit for sale and you could look at as 1/2 a quick build with the tail
section done and the right wing 80% complete and I only want about
$29,500 US.
I think it's a deal but????

Cheers
Jim

Bob Patterson wrote:

Hi Mike !

Over the years, I've seen many spreadsheets like this. People
make emotional decisions (Yes ! These ARE emotional decisions !) to buy
a particular kit, THEN try to rationalize their choice with facts !!

Every one of these comparisons clearly showed that THEIR choice was
absolutely THE best choice ! There's no point trying to change someone's
mind if it's already made up - BUT, for those who are still looking, I
always encourage an honest gathering of ALL the facts, including talking
to owners and builders, AND going for a flight in each possibility !!
There's no sustitute for experience, but there's nothing wrong with
using the experience of OTHERS ! :-)

The price they show for the QB Moose is about right - the last factory
price was $54,774 USD - aren't you glad you got yours when you did ??!!! :-)
I suspect, in terms of percentage of work still to do, that the standard
Moose kit, at $36,516 USD, is a better comparison to the BH......

You are correct about the speed, and Murphy is always conservative
with their performance numbers ! Also, there IS a LITTLE difference in
useful load !!! ;-)

In terms of real-life performance, I watched a 250 hp Bearhawk -
with basic panel and handheld radio, take off right behind a 250 Hp Moose,
for a photo shoot. The Moose had 2 people in front, and a photographer
and large camera in the back, with the baggage door removed - the BH pilot
was solo. The Moose was up and gone very quickly - the Bearhawk struggled
to climb, going up nowhere near as fast as the Moose (maybe half the ROC),
AND at a slower speed. The Moose had to really slow down to shoot the BH
in cruise, and the BH gave up after a few shots - and so missed the chance
to be on the cover of a leading magazine !

Even using their figures, the Moose is a great value, compared to
certified aircraft, and it's all metal. The Bearhawk is an interesting
airplane - reminds me a lot of the Maule, or a warmed-over Pacer. Maybe,
if there weren't Murphy aircraft, it might be something i'd look at ....
I certainly admire the effort the BH manufacturers are putting in - this
is one tough business !
......bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Wednesday 15 February 2006 11:53 pm, Mike Davis wrote:

Just wanted to share some information I just received from an individual
who's looking at different aircraft, and has been asking me questions
about Murphy's products. The comparison below came from the folks who
make the Bearhawk. I know all manufacturers try to make their product
look the best they can, and the numbers are often inflated a little, but
I found it interesting to see a side by side comparison done by a
manufacturer... they didn't use the numbers provided by their competition
because Murphy claims a cruise speed of 143 mph with an O-540, not the
130 we see below. Also, unless the Moose quick build cost is up to $20k
I'm not sure where the $54k price tag came from.

Mike

Amateur Built Aircraft
Useful Load Cruise @65%,
mph Quick-Build Cost Comments

Bearhawk 250 1100 152-155
$29,750 Bearhawk 180 1300
142 $29,750 Tundra/Dream-200 hp
1100 128
$48,000* Not available yet, their estimate of cost Tundra/Dream-235
950 135 est
$48,000* Bush Caddy, 180 hp 1,200 115
$45,000 Murphy Super Rebel 1800
130 $54,000* Lycoming 250
Murphy Moose 1700 130
$54,000* Same kit as S-Rebel GlasStar 2 + 2, 160 hp
1000 155 (160 @ 75%) $51,535* Not true
four-place

Certified Aircraft

Cessna 180F 1080 150 mph (159 @
75%) $75,000 plus BH 2" wider at shoulders Cessna 182
1000 155 mph $70-$90,000 BH same
width as late models Cessna 172M 870
125 mph (130 @ 75%) $45-$70,000 BH 3" wider at shoulders Cherokee 235
1,450 150 mph $50-$75,000
Maule MX-7 800-850 145 mph
$60-$75K Not at gross weight * includes some hardware

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[pequeajim]

You should copy that spreadsheet and correct the performance specs and
then it will REALLY look like a good deal!


On 2/16/2006 7:47 AM, jcole@rangroup.com wrote to rebel-builders:

-> While we're talking about prices - just a reminder that I have my Moose
-> Kit for sale and you could look at as 1/2 a quick build with the tail
-> section done and the right wing 80% complete and I only want about
-> $29,500 US.
-> I think it's a deal but????
->
-> Cheers
-> Jim
->
-> Bob Patterson wrote:
->
-> >Hi Mike !
-> >
-> > Over the years, I've seen many spreadsheets like this. People
-> >make emotional decisions (Yes ! These ARE emotional decisions !) to buy
-> >a particular kit, THEN try to rationalize their choice with facts !!
-> >
-> > Every one of these comparisons clearly showed that THEIR choice was
-> >absolutely THE best choice ! There's no point trying to change someone's
-> >mind if it's already made up - BUT, for those who are still looking, I
-> >always encourage an honest gathering of ALL the facts, including talking
-> >to owners and builders, AND going for a flight in each possibility !!
-> >There's no sustitute for experience, but there's nothing wrong with
-> >using the experience of OTHERS ! :-)
-> >
-> > The price they show for the QB Moose is about right - the last factory
-> >price was $54,774 USD - aren't you glad you got yours when you
did ??!!! :-)
-> >I suspect, in terms of percentage of work still to do, that the standard
-> >Moose kit, at $36,516 USD, is a better comparison to the BH......
-> >
-> > You are correct about the speed, and Murphy is always conservative
-> >with their performance numbers ! Also, there IS a LITTLE difference in
-> >useful load !!! ;-)
-> >
-> > In terms of real-life performance, I watched a 250 hp Bearhawk -
-> >with basic panel and handheld radio, take off right behind a 250 Hp
Moose,
-> >for a photo shoot. The Moose had 2 people in front, and a photographer
-> >and large camera in the back, with the baggage door removed - the BH
pilot
-> >was solo. The Moose was up and gone very quickly - the Bearhawk
struggled
-> >to climb, going up nowhere near as fast as the Moose (maybe half the
ROC),
-> >AND at a slower speed. The Moose had to really slow down to shoot the
BH
-> >in cruise, and the BH gave up after a few shots - and so missed the
chance
-> >to be on the cover of a leading magazine !
-> >
-> > Even using their figures, the Moose is a great value, compared to
-> >certified aircraft, and it's all metal. The Bearhawk is an interesting
-> >airplane - reminds me a lot of the Maule, or a warmed-over Pacer. Maybe,
-> >if there weren't Murphy aircraft, it might be something i'd look at ....
-> >I certainly admire the effort the BH manufacturers are putting in - this
-> >is one tough business !
-> > ......bobp
-> >
-> > -------------------------------orig.-------------------------
-> > On Wednesday 15 February 2006 11:53 pm, Mike Davis wrote:
-> >
-> >
-> >>Just wanted to share some information I just received from an individual
-> >>who's looking at different aircraft, and has been asking me questions
-> >>about Murphy's products. The comparison below came from the folks
who
-> >>make the Bearhawk. I know all manufacturers try to make their product
-> >>look the best they can, and the numbers are often inflated a little, but
-> >>I found it interesting to see a side by side comparison done by a
-> >>manufacturer... they didn't use the numbers provided by their
competition
-> >>because Murphy claims a cruise speed of 143 mph with an O-540, not
the
-> >>130 we see below. Also, unless the Moose quick build cost is up to $20k
-> >>I'm not sure where the $54k price tag came from.
-> >>
-> >>Mike
-> >>
-> >>Amateur Built Aircraft
-> >> Useful Load Cruise @65%,
-> >>mph Quick-Build Cost Comments
-> >>
-> >>Bearhawk 250 1100 152-155
-> >> $29,750 Bearhawk 180 1300
-> >> 142 $29,750 Tundra/Dream-200 hp
-> >> 1100 128
-> >>$48,000* Not available yet, their estimate of cost Tundra/Dream-
235
-> >> 950 135 est
-> >>$48,000* Bush Caddy, 180 hp 1,200 115
-> >> $45,000 Murphy Super Rebel 1800
-> >> 130 $54,000* Lycoming 250
-> >>Murphy Moose 1700 130
-> >> $54,000* Same kit as S-Rebel GlasStar 2 + 2, 160 hp
-> >> 1000 155 (160 @ 75%) $51,535* Not true
-> >>four-place
-> >>
-> >>Certified Aircraft
-> >>
-> >>Cessna 180F 1080 150 mph (159 @
-> >>75%) $75,000 plus BH 2" wider at shoulders Cessna 182
-> >> 1000 155 mph $70-$90,000 BH same
-> >>width as late models Cessna 172M 870
-> >> 125 mph (130 @ 75%) $45-$70,000 BH 3" wider at shoulders
Cherokee 235
-> >> 1,450 150 mph $50-$75,000
-> >>Maule MX-7 800-850 145 mph
-> >> $60-$75K Not at gross weight * includes some hardware
-> >>
-> >>
-> >>
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >-----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
-> > username "rebel" password "builder"
-> > Subscription services located at:
-> > https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
-> > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
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-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
->





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[Bob Patterson]

It IS a deal, Jim ! Maybe Mike will pass your price & address
back to the fellow who was looking at a Bearhawk - he could have
a Moose for LESS !!!! ;-) :-)

.....bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Thursday 16 February 2006 11:47 am, Jim Cole wrote:

While we're talking about prices - just a reminder that I have my Moose
Kit for sale and you could look at as 1/2 a quick build with the tail
section done and the right wing 80% complete and I only want about
$29,500 US.
I think it's a deal but????

Cheers
Jim

Bob Patterson wrote:

Hi Mike !

Over the years, I've seen many spreadsheets like this. People
make emotional decisions (Yes ! These ARE emotional decisions !) to buy
a particular kit, THEN try to rationalize their choice with facts !!

Every one of these comparisons clearly showed that THEIR choice was
absolutely THE best choice ! There's no point trying to change
someone's mind if it's already made up - BUT, for those who are still
looking, I always encourage an honest gathering of ALL the facts,
including talking to owners and builders, AND going for a flight in
each possibility !! There's no sustitute for experience, but there's
nothing wrong with using the experience of OTHERS ! :-)

The price they show for the QB Moose is about right - the last
factory price was $54,774 USD - aren't you glad you got yours when you
did ??!!! :-) I suspect, in terms of percentage of work still to do,
that the standard Moose kit, at $36,516 USD, is a better comparison to
the BH......

You are correct about the speed, and Murphy is always conservative
with their performance numbers ! Also, there IS a LITTLE difference in
useful load !!! ;-)

In terms of real-life performance, I watched a 250 hp Bearhawk -
with basic panel and handheld radio, take off right behind a 250 Hp
Moose, for a photo shoot. The Moose had 2 people in front, and a
photographer and large camera in the back, with the baggage door
removed - the BH pilot was solo. The Moose was up and gone very
quickly - the Bearhawk struggled to climb, going up nowhere near as
fast as the Moose (maybe half the ROC), AND at a slower speed. The
Moose had to really slow down to shoot the BH in cruise, and the BH
gave up after a few shots - and so missed the chance to be on the cover
of a leading magazine !

Even using their figures, the Moose is a great value, compared to
certified aircraft, and it's all metal. The Bearhawk is an interesting
airplane - reminds me a lot of the Maule, or a warmed-over Pacer. Maybe,
if there weren't Murphy aircraft, it might be something i'd look at ....
I certainly admire the effort the BH manufacturers are putting in - this
is one tough business !
......bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------

On Wednesday 15 February 2006 11:53 pm, Mike Davis wrote:

Just wanted to share some information I just received from an
individual who's looking at different aircraft, and has been asking me
questions about Murphy's products. The comparison below came from the
folks who make the Bearhawk. I know all manufacturers try to make
their product look the best they can, and the numbers are often
inflated a little, but I found it interesting to see a side by side
comparison done by a manufacturer... they didn't use the numbers
provided by their competition because Murphy claims a cruise speed of
143 mph with an O-540, not the 130 we see below. Also, unless the
Moose quick build cost is up to $20k I'm not sure where the $54k price
tag came from.

Mike

Amateur Built Aircraft
Useful Load Cruise
@65%, mph Quick-Build Cost Comments

Bearhawk 250 1100 152-155
$29,750 Bearhawk 180 1300
142 $29,750 Tundra/Dream-200
hp 1100 128
$48,000* Not available yet, their estimate of cost Tundra/Dream-235
950 135 est
$48,000* Bush Caddy, 180 hp 1,200 115
$45,000 Murphy Super Rebel 1800
130 $54,000* Lycoming 250
Murphy Moose 1700 130
$54,000* Same kit as S-Rebel GlasStar 2 + 2, 160 hp
1000 155 (160 @ 75%) $51,535* Not true
four-place

Certified Aircraft

Cessna 180F 1080 150 mph (159 @
75%) $75,000 plus BH 2" wider at shoulders Cessna 182
1000 155 mph $70-$90,000 BH same
width as late models Cessna 172M 870
125 mph (130 @ 75%) $45-$70,000 BH 3" wider at shoulders Cherokee
235 1,450 150 mph $50-$75,000 Maule MX-7
800-850 145 mph $60-$75K Not
at gross weight * includes some hardware

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[Scott Aldrich]

But then you would also need to correct the overly optimistic M14 Moose
useful load numbers - like about 300 to 400 pounds. Of course you can up the
max gross to get it all back (in the US anyway).

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
pequeajim@dcsol.com
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 10:47 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Humorous comparison

You should copy that spreadsheet and correct the performance specs and
then it will REALLY look like a good deal!






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[Blueraven]

Scott,

Are you saying the BearHawk would have better perf specs if corrected or
the Moose would have less?

WRH
============

Scott Aldrich wrote:

But then you would also need to correct the overly optimistic M14 Moose
useful load numbers - like about 300 to 400 pounds. Of course you can up the
max gross to get it all back (in the US anyway).

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
pequeajim@dcsol.com
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 10:47 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Humorous comparison

You should copy that spreadsheet and correct the performance specs and
then it will REALLY look like a good deal!






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[Mike Davis]

Yikes, I didn't realize it had gone up so much!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Aldrich" <s-aldrich@comcast.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 6:57 AM
Subject: RE: Humorous comparison

Actually he is low, the Moose fast build with Avex only rivets (no more
solid) is US $54,774. not including crating and shipping of course..

FWIW


-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 9:53 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Humorous comparison

Just wanted to share some information I just received from an individual
who's looking at different aircraft, and has been asking me questions
about
Murphy's products. The comparison below came from the folks who make the
Bearhawk. I know all manufacturers try to make their product look the
best
they can, and the numbers are often inflated a little, but I found it
interesting to see a side by side comparison done by a manufacturer...
they
didn't use the numbers provided by their competition because Murphy claims
a
cruise speed of 143 mph with an O-540, not the 130 we see below. Also,
unless the Moose quick build cost is up to $20k I'm not sure where the
$54k
price tag came from.

Mike

Amateur Built Aircraft
Useful Load Cruise @65%,
mph
Quick-Build Cost Comments

Bearhawk 250 1100 152-155
$29,750
Bearhawk 180 1300 142
$29,750
Tundra/Dream-200 hp 1100 128
$48,000* Not available yet, their estimate of cost
Tundra/Dream-235 950 135 est
$48,000*
Bush Caddy, 180 hp 1,200 115
$45,000
Murphy Super Rebel 1800 130
$54,000* Lycoming 250
Murphy Moose 1700 130
$54,000* Same kit as S-Rebel
GlasStar 2 + 2, 160 hp 1000 155 (160 @ 75%)
$51,535* Not true four-place

Certified Aircraft

Cessna 180F 1080 150 mph (159 @
75%)
$75,000 plus

BH 2" wider at shoulders
Cessna 182 1000 155 mph
$70-$90,000

BH same width as late models
Cessna 172M 870 125 mph (130 @
75%)
$45-$70,000

BH 3" wider at shoulders
Cherokee 235 1,450 150 mph
$50-$75,000
Maule MX-7 800-850 145 mph
$60-$75K Not at gross weight

* includes some hardware



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[Mike Davis]

Well I was under the impression that this individual was more interested in
a Rebel than a Moose, and I had already pointed him to the classifieds site,
which has a partially completed Rebel listed... but I also told him to join
the builders list to get more answers to some of his questions.

Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <beep@sympatico.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 9:37 AM
Subject: Re: Humorous comparison

It IS a deal, Jim ! Maybe Mike will pass your price & address
back to the fellow who was looking at a Bearhawk - he could have
a Moose for LESS !!!! ;-) :-)

.....bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Thursday 16 February 2006 11:47 am, Jim Cole wrote:

While we're talking about prices - just a reminder that I have my Moose
Kit for sale and you could look at as 1/2 a quick build with the tail
section done and the right wing 80% complete and I only want about
$29,500 US.
I think it's a deal but????

Cheers
Jim

Bob Patterson wrote:

Hi Mike !

Over the years, I've seen many spreadsheets like this. People
make emotional decisions (Yes ! These ARE emotional decisions !) to buy
a particular kit, THEN try to rationalize their choice with facts !!

Every one of these comparisons clearly showed that THEIR choice was
absolutely THE best choice ! There's no point trying to change
someone's mind if it's already made up - BUT, for those who are still
looking, I always encourage an honest gathering of ALL the facts,
including talking to owners and builders, AND going for a flight in
each possibility !! There's no sustitute for experience, but there's
nothing wrong with using the experience of OTHERS ! :-)

The price they show for the QB Moose is about right - the last
factory price was $54,774 USD - aren't you glad you got yours when you
did ??!!! :-) I suspect, in terms of percentage of work still to do,
that the standard Moose kit, at $36,516 USD, is a better comparison to
the BH......

You are correct about the speed, and Murphy is always conservative
with their performance numbers ! Also, there IS a LITTLE difference in
useful load !!! ;-)

In terms of real-life performance, I watched a 250 hp Bearhawk -
with basic panel and handheld radio, take off right behind a 250 Hp
Moose, for a photo shoot. The Moose had 2 people in front, and a
photographer and large camera in the back, with the baggage door
removed - the BH pilot was solo. The Moose was up and gone very
quickly - the Bearhawk struggled to climb, going up nowhere near as
fast as the Moose (maybe half the ROC), AND at a slower speed. The
Moose had to really slow down to shoot the BH in cruise, and the BH
gave up after a few shots - and so missed the chance to be on the cover
of a leading magazine !

Even using their figures, the Moose is a great value, compared to
certified aircraft, and it's all metal. The Bearhawk is an interesting
airplane - reminds me a lot of the Maule, or a warmed-over Pacer. Maybe,
if there weren't Murphy aircraft, it might be something i'd look at ....
I certainly admire the effort the BH manufacturers are putting in - this
is one tough business !
......bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------

On Wednesday 15 February 2006 11:53 pm, Mike Davis wrote: -----------------------------------------------------------------
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[Mike Davis]

Hi Blueraven, it looks as if you're mail client may be configured to send
mail in only HTML. This list is configured to strip all HTML content, so if
you're not sending in both HTML and plain text, then you'll want to make
sure and send plain text to this list. If you add the list address to your
address book, you should be able to set it to plain text for the address
without affecting the rest of you settings.

Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: "Blueraven" <bluedog@ak.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 9:40 AM
Subject: Re: Humorous comparison






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[Blueraven]

thanks mike..i thght id reset. Its Mozilla thunderbird email not
internet explorer.

Mike Davis wrote:

Hi Blueraven, it looks as if you're mail client may be configured to send
mail in only HTML. This list is configured to strip all HTML content, so if
you're not sending in both HTML and plain text, then you'll want to make
sure and send plain text to this list. If you add the list address to your
address book, you should be able to set it to plain text for the address
without affecting the rest of you settings.

Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: "Blueraven" <bluedog@ak.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 9:40 AM
Subject: Re: Humorous comparison








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[Blueraven]

it set to do both now html and plain text. and i added the
rebel-builders@dcsol.com to the plian test option..

thanks
========

Mike Davis wrote:

Hi Blueraven, it looks as if you're mail client may be configured to send
mail in only HTML. This list is configured to strip all HTML content, so if
you're not sending in both HTML and plain text, then you'll want to make
sure and send plain text to this list. If you add the list address to your
address book, you should be able to set it to plain text for the address
without affecting the rest of you settings.

Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: "Blueraven" <bluedog@ak.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 9:40 AM
Subject: Re: Humorous comparison







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